McCain picks Alaska's Govenor for VP

[benebob]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

What do you propose--leave the oil in the ground for countries such as China to drill it by advanced slant hole techniques??????? That makes a lot of sense.

Lee

Your right Lee, lets burn it all in your car so our military doesn't have any to defend us with. China will not infringe on US waters. They need the US to pay them back to risk a war. Drill drill drill to insecurity it is Lee's way to ruin our future!

[dromano]

The "now" "issue" is bring down gas prices!!!!!!!!! If you find joy in the price you are paying for gas, just keep blasting the status quo. I don't care for my situation where I can't do what I want to do because gas costs tooo much. I'm not alone, look at the figures for miles driven, last month vs this month, this month vs a year ago this month. We are not driving as many miles "SURPRISE", and this trend will continue. I'm driving 50% less, may only walk soon, screw OPEC!!!!!!!! Folks, the game is on, you more interested in your principles than your pocket book? At this date and time my interest is concentrated on my ability to pay.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by benebob

Your right Lee, lets burn it all in your car so our military doesn't have any to defend us with. China will not infringe on US waters. They need the US to pay them back to risk a war. Drill drill drill to insecurity it is Lee's way to ruin our future!

You obviously don't read all of my comments. I also strongly advocate alternative fuel research, development and production. BUT--we need to drill in ALL of our potential areas TO DETERMINE OUR TOTAL RESERVES FOR THE BASIS OF DECISION MAKING.

This doesn't mean that we have necessarily pump it or use it but a large reserve would definitely discourage speculation on futures.

Humm, and wasn't it you or one of your buddies that was knocking Bush for continuing to put oil in reserve for future military use?

I definitely think we should drill AND pump in areas vulnerable exploitation by other countries such as the Chinese. But, that doesn't mean we would have to use ALL of our resources.

I want to know and get a clear answer from you naysayers---What is wrong will drilling in ALL areas to at least determing the TOTAL level of OUR reserves???????? Could it be that maybe you suspect there are much larger reserves that we know have???

Lee

[NikFu S.]

I'm totally cool with both gas prices and our current oil reserves.

Less apparent supply = higher cost = more consumer conservation = more rapid advancement of alternatives, not to mention more free money for me for the time being.

I don't drive that much. Last months fuel bill was cheaper than my phone bill by about $20.
Phone and internet service, now that is where the price gouging is going on. What's worse is I use my phone less than 100 minutes a month.

Anyway, drilling won't solve anyone's problems. The cost is far too prohibitive to drill just to "see how much is there", and even then you can't really know. It's pointless.

If the Chinese are drilling off our coast, I think we should tap whatever reserve they have found. It's not like they own the ocean floor.

[benebob]

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

If the Chinese are drilling off our coast, I think we should tap whatever reserve they have found. It's not like they own the ocean floor.

In reality they do since they are drilling inside Cuban territorial waters under an agreement with the Cubans.

[benebob]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

You obviously don't read all of my comments. I also strongly advocate alternative fuel research, development and production. BUT--we need to drill in ALL of our potential areas TO DETERMINE OUR TOTAL RESERVES FOR THE BASIS OF DECISION MAKING.

This doesn't mean that we have necessarily pump it or use it but a large reserve would definitely discourage speculation on futures.

Humm, and wasn't it you or one of your buddies that was knocking Bush for continuing to put oil in reserve for future military use?

I definitely think we should drill AND pump in areas vulnerable exploitation by other countries such as the Chinese. But, that doesn't mean we would have to use ALL of our resources.

I want to know and get a clear answer from you naysayers---What is wrong will drilling in ALL areas to at least determing the TOTAL level of OUR reserves???????? Could it be that maybe you suspect there are much larger reserves that we know have???

Lee

You don't need to drill to make an educated guess with the available technology we have today. Remember I believe you were arguing that the land that is open to drilling isn't worth a darn (which may be the case, however I find it very interesting that not one of the oil companies who has a lease on said land turned it back to the gov't) but I don't see the companies "drilling" wells to find out.

Once they invest the resources to drill do you really think they'll let the platforms and wells sit idle? I'm not willing to waste tax payer dollars subsizing these wells just as I'm not willing to waste tax payer dollars for farmland to sit idle!

Bush didn't put reserves in, he simply refused to (wisely I might add) not slow down or stop for a few pennies at the pump in the short term. Wasn't me nor one of my so called "buddies".

As I've said and still believe, run the world dry of oil then tap ours, sure its greedy but it isn't like we're twisting OPEC's arm to squeeze the sweet stuff out.

[NikFu S.]

They don't have to know.

I do think it would be a better idea to just open up trade relations with Cuba, whoever mentioned that earlier.

[benebob]

Originally Posted by dromano

The "now" "issue" is bring down gas prices!!!!!!!!! If you find joy in the price you are paying for gas, just keep blasting the status quo. I don't care for my situation where I can't do what I want to do because gas costs tooo much. I'm not alone, look at the figures for miles driven, last month vs this month, this month vs a year ago this month. We are not driving as many miles "SURPRISE", and this trend will continue. I'm driving 50% less, may only walk soon, screw OPEC!!!!!!!! Folks, the game is on, you more interested in your principles than your pocket book? At this date and time my interest is concentrated on my ability to pay.

Though I feel for you it hurts everyone when they fill up. I drive an F-250 but most days I ride a motorcycle that gets me 80mpg or so b/c I don't feel like wasting my money. Driving less can be a good thing for the country. Maybe it'll make us healthier from the long walks so that we can actually sit in a Smartcar.

As drilling and gas prices that's where your confused on economics and a global economy. You should know that we currently ship about 50 percent of our domestic pumped and refined diesel overseas (have you looked at diesel prices compared to gas). Overall in any given year roughly 20-25 percent of our domestically drilled crude goes to other countries.

Gas is simply a global commodity which sells to the highest bidder. Drilling more will simply mean that there "could" be more oil on the market not that there will be more oil in the market or it will be cheaper. Say we pump out an extra 10 million barrels a day. That extra 10 million barrels goes to the highest bidder and if China says we will pay more than the US then they do and get that oil. Sure it could create more oil in the market but by doing so then more Chinese buy themselves a VW or BMW (sorry but they really don't like GMs or Fords any more than Americans seem to) which will lead to more people wanting oil thus higher prices in the near future. Now say Mexico sees that we're pumping more out and gas prices do steadly decline. They can cut back their production to raise the price or stabilize it so they wisely get the best bang for their buck. Any way you look at it adding more oil to the equation doesn't lower the pain at the pump when there are more people in the world using more oil everyday. Sure you may see a few cents here and there but a few cents isn't 10 percent which even at that I would've paid over $3 a gallon today when I put $75 into my tank.

Now if the dollar (which has made strides recently due to the economic downturn/recession or whatever you want to call it beginning to hit other countries) returned to pre-Bush levels on the global market we would be currently paying $80 a barrel for oil. Just what we were when gas was $1.45-$1.75 a gallon in the late 90s. OPEC would be getting a good return as they could still buy their Euro cars for a reasonable amount of American $$s, we would be getting just what you want in cheap gas, I would still be riding a motorcycle to work because, well, I'm cheap, the economy would again boom, food prices would decline, our trade deficit would decline and interest rates would decline as would inflation.

On the downside our staggering debt would be even more insurmountable since we borrowed a ton when the dollar was week thus we borrowed even more that we would've needed to had the dollar been strong. Also, that manufacturing sector that is virtually non existant in terms of international sales would have trouble selling cars in Europe and the Far East. It isn't like they're lighting up their sales as it is so those are the two major things I can live with for the benefits we'd see.

Question is, are you happy with a "maybe few cents" if the planets line up or are you willing to ask the major party idiots out there what their plan is to strengthen the dollar as they don't seem to want to talk about the real agent of change that will help you to live like you once did.

[benebob]

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

They don't have to know.

I do think it would be a better idea to just open up trade relations with Cuba, whoever mentioned that earlier.

Woo there tough guy, that takes time and to do it right you must put carrots out there for the rabbit to come to your house and agree to your terms. You don't just hand over the keys to the club house without forcing the issue on labor laws, enviromental controls and basic human rights. Or at least we shouldn't screw up like we did in China and Vietnam. American is a beacon of light for the world, we should demand countries who want to sell to us meet whatever standards we deem necessary to ensure that $1 a day Nike shoe maker doesn't resent our hipocritical posture in the world.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by benebob

You don't need to drill to make an educated guess with the available technology we have today. Remember I believe you were arguing that the land that is open to drilling isn't worth a darn (which may be the case, however I find it very interesting that not one of the oil companies who has a lease on said land turned it back to the gov't) but I don't see the companies "drilling" wells to find out.

Do some research and see IF you can come up with a pretty good estimate of our reserves with which the majority of experts can agree.

AND--you must have me confused with someone else--I have NEVER said that the areas open to drilling were worth nothing or even anything close that reference you attribute to me.

Lee

[benebob]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Do some research and see IF you can come up with a pretty good estimate of our reserves with which the majority of experts can agree.

AND--you must have me confused with someone else--I have NEVER said that the areas open to drilling were worth nothing or even anything close that reference you attribute to me.

Lee

Then its agreed, until the idiot oil companies actually tap into the land that is already open to them it is a non issue on giving them more. Lets talk more on the subject in 20 years.

[Weebitob]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

You can't blame Bush for much of the real or perceived current economic problems. The mortgage mess and high oil prices and its impact on other prices was going to happen no matter who was president. Particularly, if the liberal democrats continue to block new oil exploration in areas where there are known reserves (size unknown until drilled).

Wrong, it is oil companies that are preventing themselves and prospectors from drilling in keen oil rich areas which they own, ever heard of Prudhoe Bay? But then again, what else can you expect to happen when big corporations own excavation, refinement and distribution of a non-renewable commodity that also happens to be used as a utility? Btw, in case you are wondering why oil prices are so high in our proud free capitalist country it is due in part to other governments subsidizing, oil companies have to make up for the loss of distribution somewhere.

CHINA is drilling within 35 miles of the US coast and is drilling SLANT holes which takes them even closer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What can I say, you snooze you lose. However, the US is not the only one in danger of diplomacy in the name of Chinese oil interests with the PRC using their influence within the UN Security Council toprevent sanctions against the Sudanese government, maybe because they have petroleum among other contractors there?

I know this is OT but I felt an urge to correct people that the world does not revolve around us and our current policies prevent the government from taking huge steps to change our oil and overall trading deficit situation, among other things. Which will grow as the PRC aids in further domestic research and production.Welcome to America, land of the laze fair, home of the greedy.

[newsvx]

Originally Posted by benebob

Though I feel for you it hurts everyone when they fill up. I drive an F-250 but most days I ride a motorcycle that gets me 80mpg or so b/c I don't feel like wasting my money. Driving less can be a good thing for the country. Maybe it'll make us healthier from the long walks so that we can actually sit in a Smartcar.

As drilling and gas prices that's where your confused on economics and a global economy. You should know that we currently ship about 50 percent of our domestic pumped and refined diesel overseas (have you looked at diesel prices compared to gas). Overall in any given year roughly 20-25 percent of our domestically drilled crude goes to other countries.

Gas is simply a global commodity which sells to the highest bidder. Drilling more will simply mean that there "could" be more oil on the market not that there will be more oil in the market or it will be cheaper. Say we pump out an extra 10 million barrels a day. That extra 10 million barrels goes to the highest bidder and if China says we will pay more than the US then they do and get that oil. Sure it could create more oil in the market but by doing so then more Chinese buy themselves a VW or BMW (sorry but they really don't like GMs or Fords any more than Americans seem to) which will lead to more people wanting oil thus higher prices in the near future. Now say Mexico sees that we're pumping more out and gas prices do steadly decline. They can cut back their production to raise the price or stabilize it so they wisely get the best bang for their buck. Any way you look at it adding more oil to the equation doesn't lower the pain at the pump when there are more people in the world using more oil everyday. Sure you may see a few cents here and there but a few cents isn't 10 percent which even at that I would've paid over $3 a gallon today when I put $75 into my tank.

Now if the dollar (which has made strides recently due to the economic downturn/recession or whatever you want to call it beginning to hit other countries) returned to pre-Bush levels on the global market we would be currently paying $80 a barrel for oil. Just what we were when gas was $1.45-$1.75 a gallon in the late 90s. OPEC would be getting a good return as they could still buy their Euro cars for a reasonable amount of American $$s, we would be getting just what you want in cheap gas, I would still be riding a motorcycle to work because, well, I'm cheap, the economy would again boom, food prices would decline, our trade deficit would decline and interest rates would decline as would inflation.

On the downside our staggering debt would be even more insurmountable since we borrowed a ton when the dollar was week thus we borrowed even more that we would've needed to had the dollar been strong. Also, that manufacturing sector that is virtually non existant in terms of international sales would have trouble selling cars in Europe and the Far East. It isn't like they're lighting up their sales as it is so those are the two major things I can live with for the benefits we'd see.

Question is, are you happy with a "maybe few cents" if the planets line up or are you willing to ask the major party idiots out there what their plan is to strengthen the dollar as they don't seem to want to talk about the real agent of change that will help you to live like you once did.

Ben,
Excellent, reasonable post!! People listen when presented in this manner.

That said, a couple of corrections:

In 2000, when Bush came to the White House, oil was selling for only $20 (actually a little less).

The Chinese's favorite car (according to a PBS special recently) is a "BLACK" Buick, not a BMW or Mercedes, or whatever.

Gas prices are not the only inflation concern - everything has gone up in price tremendously. The cost of bread, as an example, is up 24%!! Why? Transportation costs due to the high price of gas!! Food costs are a major concern, and the economy is the Number one issue for the voters these days.

Harry

[newsvx]

Originally Posted by dromano

The "now" "issue" is bring down gas prices!!!!!!!!! If you find joy in the price you are paying for gas, just keep blasting the status quo. I don't care for my situation where I can't do what I want to do because gas costs tooo much. I'm not alone, look at the figures for miles driven, last month vs this month, this month vs a year ago this month. We are not driving as many miles "SURPRISE", and this trend will continue. I'm driving 50% less, may only walk soon, screw OPEC!!!!!!!! Folks, the game is on, you more interested in your principles than your pocket book? At this date and time my interest is concentrated on my ability to pay.

DROMANO,

You are correct - to a point. The real point is that with the increases in the costs of gas, EVERYTHING goes up due to transportation costs. My kids are out of the house, grown up now, but I have friends that are concerned about how much their food bill has gone up with the rise in food prices - and we are talking basics here, not steak every night ...
Harry

[lhopp77]

It appears that a couple of you have very little knowledge of how oil leases work or even much about the oil industry. First, government leases have a specified duration with the maximum being 10 years. Some are shorter duration. If the lease owner does not drill, they lose the lease and any money they may have paid for it.

Frequently, areas with no oil potential are grouped with areas that do have potential. As oil companies are in business to make money--they will not drill in areas that have very little likelihood of having oil or gas and will not drill in areas that do have oil or gas if the production costs will exceed the value of oil obtained. Many, many marginal wells in the US are being pumped now while oil prices are high, but are not pumped when prices drop below production costs.

An example of why I say we need to drill in ANWAR is the estimate of oil reserves in the area. Different experts estimate there is somewhere between 600 million barrels to as much as 9.2 billion barrels. THIS IS PRECISELY MY POINT--we need to drill in these now off limits areas to actually make a better determination of how much there is.

So, if benebobit means that I say there are BAD OIL LEASE areas--that is true. The actual quality of the land area does not have a direct correlation to whether or not there is oil or gas.

And of course we export some oil--it is actually cheaper to export Alaskan oil and to buy Mexican or other source oil simply because of transportation costs to refining facilities.

Lee