How to run wiring to door speakers?

Trevor,

I had always been under the impression that you were a nice guy with an unfortunately abrasive way of communicating.

I appear to have been wrong. I now understand that you truly are an asshole. I won't make the same mistake in the future, thanks for clearing that up for me.

I'll have to call Bill and let him know that you consider him a "salesman", he'll find that hilarious. As a veteran electrical engineer of 35+ years and a former employee of both Bell Labs and Lucent Technologies, he's something of an antisocial gnome. Thanks for providing some comic relief in the middle of your incredibly misdirected diatribe.

I'll rest my hat on the fact that I've designed and integrated award winning systems that cost more than your entire net worth. Whether you think they're based on "bad science" or not is irrelevent, because frankly your opinion doesn't matter, nor do your arguments. You are in fact irrelevant to the subject matter.

Have a nice day.

[SubaSteevo]

I don't want to sound like an ass, but...Bill owns a company, Bill's company makes products, these products are sold. No one starts a company just to demonstrate that they know something, you start a company to make a profit. Trevor never said that he was a "salesman," he said "I accept but do not admire his salesmanship." I am not going to take sides in the audio arguement because I don't have any technical knowledge to back it up. What I will comment on is the fact that a $50 Wal-Mart boombox will play the same CD's as a $5,000 stereo (actually probably more, since most Wal-Mart stereos will play MP3's and very few high end stereos will) and the amount of distortion due to interference in the Wal-Mart stereo will have no effect on the rest of my life.

[Landshark]

this thread =

[SVXRide]

Steve,
Check out the site Porter referenced earlier in this thread...we're talking an entirely different universe of stereo equipment here...sort of like trying to compare Rolls Royces to Yugos

Originally posted by BurgundyBeast
I don't want to sound like an ass, but...Bill owns a company, Bill's company makes products, these products are sold. No one starts a company just to demonstrate that they know something, you start a company to make a profit. Trevor never said that he was a "salesman," he said "I accept but do not admire his salesmanship." I am not going to take sides in the audio arguement because I don't have any technical knowledge to back it up. What I will comment on is the fact that a $50 Wal-Mart boombox will play the same CD's as a $5,000 stereo (actually probably more, since most Wal-Mart stereos will play MP3's and very few high end stereos will) and the amount of distortion due to interference in the Wal-Mart stereo will have no effect on the rest of my life.

I completely agree with your statement about the Wal-Mart stereo. If you are looking to have a little background music, an average boombox is perfect. For people who care about the difference and can perceive it, and spend a vast amount of time actively listening to music, there is a difference worth spending money on.

As for Bill's company, he is a retired engineer who went in with a few friends as the technical expert on staff for a high end audio import startup. He's not a salesman at all, he leaves that stuff for the young guys. He just uses his ears and his expertise and shoots down anything that looks good (even on paper) but doesn't fulfill his expectations 100% in the real world.

Thanks for your replies, everybody. It's been entertaining.

Originally posted by SVXRide
Steve,
Check out the site Porter referenced earlier in this thread...we're talking an entirely different universe of stereo equipment here...sort of like trying to compare Rolls Royces to Yugos

Check out the "Awards and Reviews" section on there... the review of the Sonus Faber Amati Homage is pretty awesome.

Just to throw a monkey wrench into the fray, I'd like to point out that 80% of the sound of a system is in the setup of the room and the placement of the speakers within it.

Take a look at this site for some theories and insight on room design and speaker placement:

http://www.cardas.com/cgi-bin/main_c...ing=Room+Setup

Note the warning at the bottom of the page before proceeding...

[SVXRide]

Gee, now I've got to figure out how to modify my SVX's interior to scale with a Golden Trapagon
-Bill (wondering where he left his torch and extra sheet metal )

[Trevor]

Porter I will respond once and only once more.

You have directly insulted me by calling me an Ò asshole Ò but as is your practice offer no facts. I could ignore you with the contempt you deserve but as this is public domain you force me to take you to task and herewith I do so.

You say I have ---- Ò an unfortunately abrasive way of communicating.Ó Possibly this is because I deal in facts and do not beat about the bush. Take it or leave it.

I did not call your Bill a Ò salesman Ò or in any way insult him or infer insult and if he is as you describe I have in mind communicating with him as we should have similar interests. I doubt that in reality he accepts the properties of Monster or any other such cable as you do.

I quote you. --- Ò I'll rest my hat on the fact that I've designed and integrated award winning systems that cost more than your entire net worth.Ó

You have designed NOTHING. You have simply connected up a set of store bought components. The award was, I have no doubt, industry generated. I could state what I am worth but I will not. However even at the risk of being seen to blow trumpet I will outline some experience.

I have personally designed and my own Companies have built, products and Indusrial alarm and control systems on which peoples lives and welfare depend, e.g. for power stations, hospitals and industry. Non have failed.

Having sold my industrial Companies I established Auto Hi Fi Ltd located at 63 BarryÕs Point Road, an important commercial street in this city. This I did to provide an interest and to occupy premises which I had purchased as an investment. The building provided space to work on six cars simultaneously, a workshop for repairs and modifications, an office for a clerical worker as well as a very large show room. Outside there was a large car parking area. I personally carried out all repairs of a technical nature, did any detailed trouble shooting and designed and modified components where required. Staff were employed to do on car and sales work. The business was sold as planned and capital gain realised on the building.

Your posts have contributed nothing to this thread. You have not recorded a single fact or made a statement of valid interest or made an attempt to assist. However you have unwittingly provided me and others here with concrete evidence confirming all I have said regarding the existence of a specialised BS industry.

You have proven that you are included among the gullible technically ignorant many, who once conned with dishonest sales propaganda into purchasing an expensive item, as a result of ego persuade themselves that the purchase must conform exactly with exaggerated expectations. There is no way these self opinionated types will ever admit even to themselves of having through ignorance made a mistake. You are not unusual in that you conform, but as you have given me the right as a result of your insult, I now say you are stupid.

I do not claim particular merit in respect of knowledge as you do, but I am quite certain that my knowledge experience and wisdom exceeds yours. You have painted yourself into a corner and you must hope that the paint dries. At the moment it is exceedingly sticky.

LOL

Originally posted by Porter
I always find it funny that people love to take cheap shots at those who appreciate good audio equipment.

It's similar to people who make fun of those with an interest in fast, rare cars. After all, anybody that spends money on a car, especially an older, problematic sports car must be an idiot, right?? It's only transportation, after all! Only fools drive nice cars because we all get there at the same time.

I assume you see my point... audio equipment is a lot like an SVX. Those who get it, get it... and those who don't get it simply never will.

Granted, most average Monster Cable is crap. You really do have to spend a lot of money to find something that sounds different, but it's out there. Even "entry level" companies like Monster Cable make some decent products, in their M-series line.


I'd love to bring any of you over to my house, and we'll do a test where we listen to the same piece of music, first on my 2 inch thick teflon coated Straightwire Crescendos, and then on some chicken wire, and we'll see whether anyone can hear a difference...

First of all, sound itself is an art, Amplifier, wires, dividers, and speakers, all make difference in my opinion. The final product is the sound. I have an extremely sensitive ear (I am an audiophile , electrical engineer and a violinist), and they all make differences. In most cases, most my friends can hardly tell the differences those I can tell, not to mention 'better' or 'worse' sound. In my honest opinion, if you cannot tell the difference between a crap wire and the monster cable, then don't waste your money. I have been trying to convince my friends about the sound differences and I gave up, I just describe to them. I have a friend showed me his proud stereo system, and I told him his left and right channel are swapped right away. 20 years ago, a friend of mine proved to me the power cable to the pre-amp make the sound different, I did not believe him until I personally heard it.

So, how much you wish to spend on your equipment is nobody else's business. Go for what you feel comfortable with and you are happy and everybody else is happy. It is personal. When I replace the stereo system in my SVX, I decided to go for the best I feel comfortable with. I spent a lot of time to tune the balance in until I felt good about it. I used monster cable, because if I am going to spend 3 week ends to replace everything in my SVX, I want the end result worth while, so I will not think about doing it again.

To who is interested in my opinion about monster cable, the only thing I can say is that it makes music alive. If the recording is right, it reveals the most details in the music. In a car, a sub-woofer does not work well, since the enclosure is too small for extreme low frequencies, however, with careful adjustment, you can still get incredible sound from the car and enjoy it even with all other noises!

I do believe you can hear the difference because if you can, you should. But if you try to convince people to hear it, good luck, since it depends on who is hearing it!

I will definitely contact you to hear the difference if I have a chance to travel close to your place, because I do enjoy different kind of sound in different systems, and hear how the system interpret the music, I enjoy doing it.

I used to describe to people that enjoying a good recording in a good audio system is like enjoying a good wine, somebody can get crazy about the wine, some people just cannot taste the difference. It is all personal.

Eugene, you are always welcome at my house!

[Trevor]

First of all, sound itself is an art, Amplifier, wires, dividers, and speakers, all make difference in my opinion.

(I am an audiophile , electrical engineer* and a violinist)

I have been trying to convince my friends about the sound differences and I gave up,

a friend of mine proved to me the power cable* to the pre-amp make the sound different,

To who is interested in my opinion about monster cable, the only thing I can say is that it makes music alive.

I do believe you can hear the difference because if you can, you should. But if you try to convince people to hear it, good luck, since it depends on who is hearing it!

FACTS ???????? L O L

Originally posted by Trevor
First of all, sound itself is an art, Amplifier, wires, dividers, and speakers, all make difference in my opinion.

(I am an audiophile , electrical engineer* and a violinist)

I have been trying to convince my friends about the sound differences and I gave up,

a friend of mine proved to me the power cable* to the pre-amp make the sound different,

To who is interested in my opinion about monster cable, the only thing I can say is that it makes music alive.

I do believe you can hear the difference because if you can, you should. But if you try to convince people to hear it, good luck, since it depends on who is hearing it!

FACTS ???????? L O L

If you want facts, here it goes:

Sound stage is constructed by the disbursion of the tweeters. Human ear perceive sound stage by the differences of the sound heard by your two ears on both sides. However, not all the tweeters are made the same. KEF uses laser to calibrate their tweeters to ensure the proper coverage. Therefore, some speakers have better ability to tell you where everything is according to what the sound engineering want you to believe when the mix is done, whether you can tell or not is not their business, they all just do their best. And, a bad amplifier can completely screw up the sound stage by mixing it internally from the channels (stereo, 5.1, 7.1). A bad combination of speaker wire, dividing circuit, and speakers can produce a vital frequency respnse dip just right to mess up the important information that human ear most likily to perceive (believe it or not, it only requires several milli-seconds from the left and right ears for normal human ear to differentiate the direction of the source).

Plus, all dividing circuit has electrical components in them and every set of component has a tolerance. The winding of the speakers and magnets are also a factor, which contributes to the sound. The trick to all designers in every company is to flatten out the responses from all the component they have in hand within the most reasonable cost and make the most profit out of it.

The entire combination from the Amp's output posts to the speaker until the sound gets out, can be considered as a combination of many R, L, C combinations, and consider them as transmission lines. It is a complicated electrical combination trying to transfer energy. The fact is, when the sound goes out from your speakers, all components counts. That is why I said, the final product is the "SOUND". Somebody may say, ok, it only changed 0.1%, however, somebody may hear that and somebody may not. Give that, 99.9999% of the people may not perceive the difference.

The fact is, everybody is built differently. Somebody has the ability to play the violin much better than I can and I cannot do anything about it. They were born that way.

The fact is, the world is a colorful, wonderful place that everybody is a little bit different. That is what makes us different and that is what makes American wonderful, at least, we don't try to kill each other because of our differences everyday (theoriotically).

The fact is, even when companies rate their amplifier ratings, they are not equal. 40W from Sony may be different from 40W from Kenwood. Some 100W amplifier weighs more than 30lb, others may weigh like a feather.

The fact is, the ability for human brain to perceive sound is still a mistry that our brilliant scientists are still struggling to find out how brain perceives information. Do not try to perceive human being as machines. The way I perceive "White" maybe different than the way you perceive "White". I have been teaching violin lessons, and I train my students their ears, in a matter of fact, is to train their brains, to perceive the "right" sound. Some students cannot even tell they are touching two strings at once. After they pass that stage, their progress goes fast.

The fact is, if you like your SVX (like I do), live with it. If you hate your SVX, sell it and buy something else. If you feel monster cable do you any good (I think it did for me), then the company succeeded, if you feel it is waste of your money, then go to Radio Shack buy cheap wires, Radio Shack succeed.

The fact is, Cat5 cable is designed to carry digital signals. The final product goes into computers and perceive them as "Black and White" informaiton. However, they are good to a degree, but not all that great in audio applications, since, they don't need to consider what "colourized" sound. If you do not believe me, try to use them to connect your video signals and compare with monster cable, watch your TV, you have a better chance to see it in your own eyes.

The fact is, if you can tell a good pair of speakers to a bad pair of speakers, you are likely to hear the difference that monster cable makes. If you cannot tell the difference, then, the monster cable don't mean anything.

The fact is, whether the sound is good or bad, it is all personal.

[Noir]

Originally posted by eugenefeng


If you want facts, here it goes:

Sound stage is constructed by the disbursion of the tweeters. Human ear perceive sound stage by the differences of the sound heard by your two ears on both sides. However, not all the tweeters are made the same. KEF uses laser to calibrate their tweeters to ensure the proper coverage. Therefore, some speakers have better ability to tell you where everything is according to what the sound engineering want you to believe when the mix is done, whether you can tell or not is not their business, they all just do their best. And, a bad amplifier can completely screw up the sound stage by mixing it internally from the channels (stereo, 5.1, 7.1). A bad combination of speaker wire, dividing circuit, and speakers can produce a vital frequency respnse dip just right to mess up the important information that human ear most likily to perceive (believe it or not, it only requires several milli-seconds from the left and right ears for normal human ear to differentiate the direction of the source).

Plus, all dividing circuit has electrical components in them and every set of component has a tolerance. The winding of the speakers and magnets are also a factor, which contributes to the sound. The trick to all designers in every company is to flatten out the responses from all the component they have in hand within the most reasonable cost and make the most profit out of it.

The entire combination from the Amp's output posts to the speaker until the sound gets out, can be considered as a combination of many R, L, C combinations, and consider them as transmission lines. It is a complicated electrical combination trying to transfer energy. The fact is, when the sound goes out from your speakers, all components counts. That is why I said, the final product is the "SOUND". Somebody may say, ok, it only changed 0.1%, however, somebody may hear that and somebody may not. Give that, 99.9999% of the people may not perceive the difference.

The fact is, everybody is built differently. Somebody has the ability to play the violin much better than I can and I cannot do anything about it. They were born that way.

The fact is, the world is a colorful, wonderful place that everybody is a little bit different. That is what makes us different and that is what makes American wonderful, at least, we don't try to kill each other because of our differences everyday (theoriotically).

The fact is, even when companies rate their amplifier ratings, they are not equal. 40W from Sony may be different from 40W from Kenwood. Some 100W amplifier weighs more than 30lb, others may weigh like a feather.

The fact is, the ability for human brain to perceive sound is still a mistry that our brilliant scientists are still struggling to find out how brain perceives information. Do not try to perceive human being as machines. The way I perceive "White" maybe different than the way you perceive "White". I have been teaching violin lessons, and I train my students their ears, in a matter of fact, is to train their brains, to perceive the "right" sound. Some students cannot even tell they are touching two strings at once. After they pass that stage, their progress goes fast.

The fact is, if you like your SVX (like I do), live with it. If you hate your SVX, sell it and buy something else. If you feel monster cable do you any good (I think it did for me), then the company succeeded, if you feel it is waste of your money, then go to Radio Shack buy cheap wires, Radio Shack succeed.

The fact is, Cat5 cable is designed to carry digital signals. The final product goes into computers and perceive them as "Black and White" informaiton. However, they are good to a degree, but not all that great in audio applications, since, they don't need to consider what "colourized" sound. If you do not believe me, try to use them to connect your video signals and compare with monster cable, watch your TV, you have a better chance to see it in your own eyes.

The fact is, if you can tell a good pair of speakers to a bad pair of speakers, you are likely to hear the difference that monster cable makes. If you cannot tell the difference, then, the monster cable don't mean anything.

The fact is, whether the sound is good or bad, it is all personal.