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#31
03-23-2006, 03:17 PM
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After reading this article, I wonder whether Democracy and Islam can ever really co-exist.
 Judiciary challenges Karzai vision Mar. 23, 2006. 01:00 AM Toronto Star by HARRY STERLING The threat by Afghan authorities to execute a man for converting to Christianity raises serious questions about that nation's ability to reconcile the country's conservative Islamic culture with the demands of a democratic and pluralistic society that guarantees fundamental human rights, especially freedom of speech and religion. According to Afghan court officials, Abdul Rahman is charged with rejecting Islam and could be put to death under the country's sharia law if he doesn't recant and reconvert to Islam. The possibility the Afghan judiciary would even prosecute an individual for becoming a Christian, let alone put him to death for it, is a disturbing development for countries like Canada, which have sent troops to Afghanistan to battle Taliban and Al Qaeda forces. However, this incident is symptomatic of the difficulties confronted by Afghan President Hamid Karzai as he attempts to democratize his fractious nation of 28 million people. While the president has confronted opposition from warlords, militia leaders and drug kings who have resisted challenges to their vested interests, he also faces opposition from his own judiciary, the very institution intended to uphold the law. Because Afghan law is essentially based on Islamic sharia law, not civil law, judges operate in an environment where many western practices are considered un-Islamic and women's rights have traditionally been severely restricted. Among those active in denouncing alleged un-Islamic practices is Fazel Hadi Shinwari, head of Afghanistan's supreme court. He repeatedly interprets the Qur'an and sharia law in ways that undermine freedom of speech and respect for human rights. Shinwari was in the forefront of clerics ordering the imprisonment of the editor of a women's magazine for an article saying women should have equal rights with men and for suggesting the Qur'an could be open to interpretation. Shinwari and other clerics denounced the article as blasphemous, some calling for the editor to receive the death penalty. He only escaped execution by recanting his views. Shinwari has repeatedly threatened action against television stations for showing what he called "half-naked singers and obscene scenes from movies." He reportedly was instrumental in blocking a cabinet appointment for a highly respected feminist legislator because she criticized sharia. He publicly opposes co-education in Afghan schools, a priority objective of Karzai. He also has been quoted as saying any move to force him to resign would result in widespread disturbances. Unfortunately, his conservative views are echoed throughout Afghanistan, especially in the heartland of the Taliban in the south, where countless schools have been burned down or closed out of fear, and teachers murdered. Given the inherently conservative nature of Afghanistan's male-dominated society, any move by Karzai against such powerful traditionalists as Shinwari is politically risky. As Shinwari bluntly put it: "(Y)ou cannot interfere with our religion. If you do that, people will rise up." Threats to execute Christian converts is only the tip of the iceberg in an undeclared struggle between conservative traditionalists and reformers, each determined to define what the role of Islam should be in Afghanistan as it attempts to integrate itself into the global community. But to achieve his reform objectives, Karzai needs the continuing help of friendly countries — many Christian — to assist in the economic reconstruction and restoration of stability in Afghanistan. While the international community cannot afford to let Afghanistan once again become an incubator for global terrorists, it also should make it clear to Kabul that tolerance for other religions must be fully respected in accordance with Afghanistan's commitment to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which guarantees freedom of religion. What is now at stake in Afghanistan is not solely the fate of one individual's right to become a Christian. It's also about a society's willingness to practise the kind of religious tolerance it claims Islam represents. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Harry Sterling, a former diplomat, is an Ottawa-based commentator who writes regularly on Afghan issues. 
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#32
03-24-2006, 02:37 AM
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Interesting reading:
 Russell Storring - A Soldier's Life Russell Storring is a Master Corporal with the Canadian Army, and has been a signals operator for the 14 years he has been in the military. He recently returned from his second tour of duty in Afghanistan, having served there previously in 2003, and with the UN in Rwanda in 1994. His columns give a first-person account from the field and the life of a soldier. March 23, 2006 Suck it up and wait "If Afghanistan wasn’t in the media spotlight while I was on tour, it tragically seems to make the news almost every day now." February 14, 2006 Canadian soldiers and the cartoon controversy February 8, 2006 A certain pride December 23, 2005 Home again December 14, 2005 Our last days in Kabul November 17, 2005 A convoy to Kandahar November 11, 2005 Remembrance October 17, 2005 A different Afghanistan August 9, 2005 A surprise oasis August 2, 2005 Kabul revisited July 18, 2005 The final weeks May 30, 2005 Return to Kabul January 26, 2005 Memories and a look ahead Previous Stories from 2003 and 2004 by Russell Storring http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_storring/
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#33
03-24-2006, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Hitler believed the german race (we called it in Arabic the "Ary" race) is superior than the others, also he would kill his own handicaped and elderly... Frankly I never understood how was that guy thinking at that time. The ideology behind the whole issue was fuzzy. Lee there is a huge gap between wackiness leading to war and a cause leading to war. No one can deny the fact of Hitler burning people in furnaces is an act of craziness and dirtiest fact ever. But talking about a small civil war where they would tie people in between two cars and letting those drive each in different direction.... is something you see every day? The same thing is happening also in Israel, the Jews are armed to the teeth and the palestinians are defending their homes with rocks and stones. What is the difference between killing unarmed jews by burning them to ashes or killing unarmed Palestinians by high tech weapons? I say again, i am not defending the Palestinians, they were the cause of our misery (when they were kicked out of Palestine in the early to mid 1970's, they came to Lebanon as "guests" as they claimed, but as a matter of fact, they were preparing themselves to do military operations on the Israelis from our country, so was the beginning of our war in 1975), but somebody should point to anything IMMORAL which occur in any war...
__________________
Danny 1994 Silver SVX in hybernation, awaiting for the monsterous awakening (Lebanon)  1967 Mercedes-Benz 250SL Euro Specs, Hard/Softtop, White/Red. Under Complete Restoration  2013 Mercedes-Benz SL350 Euro Specs, White/Red. Mint... Another step into SL Collection. 
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#34
03-24-2006, 12:51 PM
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Just Try It
Quote:
Lee
__________________
SVXx2 92 SVX LS-L Silver 92 SVX LS-L Burgundy (structurally challenged with 2792 miles) 96 SVX LSi Red 92 SVX LS Pearl (Parts) 01 F150 4X4 Red (+6 with other members of the family) FREEDOM IS NOT FREE
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#35
03-24-2006, 01:50 PM
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Hmmm, we are back again in the Chicken/Egg story. Well I would prove you now which came first. After WW2, the Jews were scattered all over the world and especially in the USA and Europe. They managed to attend very high ranking places in the US government allowing them to control most of your economy and a good chunk of your political system. Using those two powerful tools for their leverage they managed to gain USA's veto on their behalf.
They are very intelligent people, they plan an idea and take the outmost time needed just to reach their objective, even for decades! Don't be surprised if they planned on reaching those high places 50 years ago! you would be suprised from their way of life and from their stories! the Jewish fighter pilot steps down at an age of 25, this is because they believe that he won't have the same guts as he did between 18 and 24. So his flying duration is only 6-7 years. They are as accurate and disciplined as a Swiss Clock. So they managed to pressure the US governement to help them out though everything especially weapons. I dunno why the Isrealis need Atomic bombs, Apache helicopters, biological weapons, F-16's F-14's.... just to fight Palestinians with rocks. You still remember that Video that was shown earlier in this Section about the kid whose parents were shot and he had to Kamikaze himslef just to get his family's killers? This is a fact my friend ! the Palestinians are just killing Jews that way just to get their revenge either for their little murdered brother, or their murdered grandparents or even their parents/family members and deprived homes. They are also people eligible in that same piece of land where the Jews want to live also. But the latters are stubborn enough to still think that the Palestinians are Abraham's Maid offspring, so they are of lesser race... and they must be either exiled or extinct. So we are back here to Hitler's race obsession. Pls take those words from a guy who hates both Palestinians and Jews, well I hate the Palestinians more than the latters P.S: Stop watching your news and start listening to what I am telling you. But I guess you will be stuck with your point of view, I cannot change it, I know from myslef, I am as stubborn as an OX. Someday you will tell me I was right about it, in 30 years perhaps?
__________________
Danny 1994 Silver SVX in hybernation, awaiting for the monsterous awakening (Lebanon) 1967 Mercedes-Benz 250SL Euro Specs, Hard/Softtop, White/Red. Under Complete Restoration 2013 Mercedes-Benz SL350 Euro Specs, White/Red. Mint... Another step into SL Collection.
Last edited by SilverSpear; 03-24-2006 at 01:52 PM.
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#36
03-25-2006, 04:42 AM
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Back to the topic of Afghanistan
 What I find perplexing is that the new Afghani constitution has a clause protecting freedom of religion. We in the West would interpret that as meaning that each individual citizen has the right to worship in his own manner. The Afghani Judges, however, are seeing it as the right of each religious institution to uphold its own rules and laws. Hence you get a real contradiction between individual rights and freedoms, and Sharia laws which technically would only apply to Muslims (which is the vast majority of Afghanis). Since Sharia law forbids a Muslim from converting to another faith, then the Judges see this case as actually upholding the constitutional clause protecting freedom of religion.  March 25, 2006 Judge defends Afghan 'law' Christian convert faces death By AP KABUL -- The chief judge trying an Afghan man who faces a possible death sentence for converting from Islam to Christianity defended the court's autonomy yesterday as international pressure grew against the case. Senior clerics in Kabul have voiced strong support for the prosecution of Abdul Rahman and warned yesterday they would incite people to kill him unless he reverted to Islam. Australian Prime Minister John Howard, meanwhile, joined the chorus of western leaders -- including Prime Minister Stephen Harper -- expressing outrage and said he would protest personally to President Hamid Karzai. "This is appalling. When I saw the report about this I felt sick, literally," Howard told Aussie radio yesterday. Rahman, 41, faces the death penalty under Afghanistan's Islamic laws for converting 16 years ago while working as a medical aid worker for a Christian group helping Afghan refugees in Pakistan. Ansarullah Mawlavi Zada, the chief among three judges trying the case, asserted the autonomy of the court. "We have a constitution and law here. Nobody has the right to put pressure on us," he told AP.
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#37
03-25-2006, 05:43 AM
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Bipa,
You all might find this video interesting. It is remarks at a town hall meeting by a Soldier who recentlly returned from Afghanistan .
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#38
03-25-2006, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
The troops were given some very tough jobs to do, including cleaning up Afghanistan and Iraq. From the Military's perspective, it doesn't really matter why they were sent to do these jobs. As long as the orders have been lawfully given, the Armed Forces are obligated to obey their Commander in Chief. They don't have to like the orders, and of course many have doubts about the political machinations leading up to the orders being given, but their duties and responsibilities are clearly spelled out with no room for dissention. I would expect morale to remain good. A professional soldier focuses on the task at hand. They see all the "little victories" which inspire them to keep going. A newly dug well providing clean drinking water, a school re-opened, a hospital re-supplied, children playing in a playground which was recently swept clear of mines and munitions. That is what the soldiers see being accomplished, and every friendly kid's smile is a morale booster. They are trying to make the world a better place, even if it is only one square block at a time. A soldier on the front lines sees the world very differently than the politicians back home. There's a strange dichotomy that few civvies would understand. Here's how it was explained to me: one moment you are fighting a running gun battle in the streets or watching your buddies being blown up by an IED (improvised explosive device), the next you are sitting down for tea with a "nice" family, giving the cute kids some candy and your biggest worry is your table manners. Meanwhile, the bigger question about whether or not the troops should even be there is a stupid waste of time to the ordinary soldier. It just doesn't matter. He's got his orders, he's already there, he has a job to do, and he'll do it to the best of his ability. Unless there is a political or legal change in the status of those orders, the Military will continue to do their utmost to fulfill the mission requirements. And that's the way it should be. P.S. I loved the comment about how the returning soldiers received a letter from the Governor, thanking them for their service in Iraq. Especially as they had just returned from Afghanistan . I guess Afghanistan really has been forgotten to an extent in the USA.
Last edited by Bipa; 03-25-2006 at 07:18 AM.
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#39
03-25-2006, 07:23 AM
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Those two jack*sses in the video did not even have enough respect to give him a response. What a couple of pieces of ****.
I know you are from Canada so don't take offense to my comments. the USA is the best country in the world. We just have alot of stuff that needs correcting.
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#40
03-25-2006, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
. I expect and frankly would be surprised if a US citizen didn't think that way. I'd also be surprised if a Brit or a Canadian or an Australian etc didn't feel the same way about their own countries. My German husband loves his country so much that he wanted to come back and live here, even with all the problems Germany is going through. So here we are (and after 4 years we're seriously thinking about moving elsewhere again )A country is much more than its institutions and government and infrastructure. You can't quantify nor compare that feeling of "home". The best measure of a country, in my mind, is to look at immigration and emigration records. As my Dad says, people vote with their feet. On that basis alone, you can usually tell just how good a country is. Germany isn't a bad place to live. I can think of lots of worse places to be. I can go about my daily life with a minimum of interference. Sure, I complained a lot at the beginning, but once I got used to the different cultural and societal values, I began to realise that for the people I've met here, life is pretty good. But then again, most of them have never experienced life in another country. The same could also be said for the majority of folks in the USA or Canada or Australia etc who firmly believe that theirs is the best country in the world. It is an emotional statement which requires no proof. As for needing corrections, there isn't a single country or form of government that isn't in need of improvement. Show me a perfect country, and I'll show you a person in need of serious psychiatric counselling "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried" -Winston Churchill
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#41
03-25-2006, 10:00 AM
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I agree that most people have not experienced another country so they always think the grass is greener elsewhere. I have spent time extended periods of time, in Bosnia, Germany and Kuwait. I would nto want to live in any of then long term (5+ years). The USA is the best place even with it's problems.
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#42
03-25-2006, 10:39 AM
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#43
03-25-2006, 10:44 AM
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Nice
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#44
03-26-2006, 03:44 PM
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It was written on this board recently that protests are pretty useless and are basically a waste of time. Well, it seems that in this case, protests have succeeded in making the Afghanistan government re-think the whole "religious freedom" and "freedom of concious" thing. Although the story isn't finished yet and we don't have a tidy happy ending, it certainly appears that the Christian convert will not be put to death by the courts.
Instead, he'll probably end up being killed on the street by Muslim Cleric-instigated rioters. Puts a whole different meaning on "holy man", eh? Case against Afghan Christian convert dismissed Mar. 26, 2006. 04:36 PM DANIEL COONEY ASSOCIATED PRESS KABUL, Afghanistan — A court on Sunday dismissed the case against an Afghan man facing possible execution for converting from Islam to Christianity, officials said, paving the way for his release. The move eased pressure from the West but raised the dilemma of protecting Abdul Rahman after his release as Islamic clerics have called for him to be killed. One official said freedom might come as soon as Monday for Rahman, who became a Christian in the 1990s while working for an aid group in neighboring Pakistan. Muslim extremists, who have demanded death for Rahman as an apostate for rejecting Islam, warned the decision would touch off protests across this religiously conservative country. Some clerics previously vowed to incite Afghans to kill Rahman if he was let go. Rahman was moved to Kabul's notorious high-security Policharki prison Friday after inmates at a jail in central Kabul threatened him, Policharki's warden, Gen. Shahmir Amirpur, said. Authorities have barred journalists from seeing Rahman. But on Sunday, officials gave AP an exclusive tour of Policharki, which houses some 2,000 inmates, including about 350 Taliban and al-Qaida militants. Amirpur said Rahman had been asking guards for a Bible but they had none to give him. "He looks very calm. But he keeps saying he is hearing voices," Amirpur said. Rahman was in solitary confinement in a tiny concrete cell next to a senior prison guard's office. AP was shown the cell door, but barred from speaking with or otherwise communicating with him. A senior guard said inmates and many guards had not been told of Rahman's identity because of fears they might attack him. But Amirpur vouched for the prisoner's safety. "We are watching him constantly. This is a very sensitive case so he needs high security.'' The case set off an outcry in the United States and other nations that helped oust the hard-line Taliban regime in late 2001 and provide aid and military support for Afghan President Hamid Karzai. President Bush and others insisted Afghanistan protect personal beliefs. A Supreme Court spokesman, Abdul Wakil Omeri, said the case had been dismissed because of "problems with the prosecutors' evidence." He said several of Rahman's relatives testified he is mentally unstable and prosecutors have to "decide if he is mentally fit to stand trial.'' Another Afghan official closely involved with the case told The Associated Press that the court ruled there was insufficient evidence and returned the case to prosecutors for further investigation. But he said Rahman would be released in the meantime. "The court dismissed today the case against Abdul Rahman for a lack of information and a lot of legal gaps in the case," the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to publicly comment on the case. "The decision about his release will be taken possibly tomorrow," the official added. "They don't have to keep him in jail while the attorney general is looking into the case.'' Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who said she had not received official confirmation from Afghan authorities, told Fox News the announcement was "a very good step forward.'' She said on CNN's "Late Edition" that the U.S. government had stressed to Karzai that religious freedom is a vital element of democracy. "We're going to stand firm for the principle that religious freedom and freedom of religious conscience need to be upheld, and we are hoping for a favorable resolution in this case," Rice said. The uproar left Karzai in an awkward position. While trying to address concerns of foreign supporters, he also has sought not to alienate religious conservatives who wield considerable influence in Afghanistan. The court's decision was sure to anger at least some of the clerics who have strongly demanded that authorities enforce a provision in the country's Islamic-based laws calling for the execution of Muslims who abandon the faith. "There will be big protests across Afghanistan," said Faiez Mohammed, a Sunni Muslim leader in the northern city of Kunduz. ``This has shamed Afghanistan in the eyes of other Muslim countries.'' A Western diplomat, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said it wasn't clear if the 41-year-old Rahman would be able to stay in Afghanistan or have to move abroad. A prison official told AP that Rahman had been moved to a new prison Friday because of threats from inmates at his first jail. Rahman was being prosecuted for converting 16 years ago while working as a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in Pakistan. He was arrested last month after police discovered him with a Bible. In an interview published Sunday by an Italian newspaper, Rahman said his family, including his former wife and two teenage daughters, reported him to authorities. He stressed that he was fully aware of his choice to convert. "If I must die, I will die," Rahman told the Rome daily La Repubblica, which did not interview him directly but channeled questions through a human rights worker who visited him in prison. Rahman said he chose to become a Christian "in small steps'' after leaving Afghanistan around 1990. He moved to Peshawar, Pakistan, then Germany and tried to get a visa in Belgium. "In Peshawar, I worked for a humanitarian organization. They were Catholics," Rahman said. "I started talking to them about religion, I read the Bible, it opened my heart and my mind.'' After saying he was ready to die, he told La Repubblica: ``Somebody, a long time ago, did it for all of us," in a clear reference to Jesus Christ.
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#45
03-26-2006, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Crazy right wing Islamists.
__________________
Robert Is Bush in jail yet? (Looks frantically at watch, then back up) How about now? Now? Come onnnnnn...... Someone freeze me until January, this wait is killing me. Update: 09 January, and still not in jail! Wassup?? 1992 Teal LS-L - 160k (Now new and improved with perfect paint!)
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