A day without illegal immigrants...

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

The Democrats planned on making the lack of minimum wage increases a campaign issue this year, so now they are very upset with having to vote on it. The Republicans were crafty enough to tie it to some other reasonable tax provisions.

I agree with Earl that it does not take much of an estate in many areas to reach the $5Mil exemption included in this legislation. Like I have said before, a family farm of a few thousand acres and some expensive equipment can reach that level in a hurry. I think that is very fair to exempt estates of less than that figure. It still taxes the super rich like the Kerry's, Kennedys, etc. Well, actually I am kidding myself since they keep their money overseas and in trusts and just want to tax everyone else.

Wake up and smell the roses, Robert.

Lee

Oh... Roses... Here they are -> 7-11-05tax.pdf Those are the roses from the latest CBO report about how they are trying to "save" those poor farmers.

This latest extremely unconservative tax break is no more for farmers than the capital gains tax was for "small businesses". They just have some of you believing that.

We are not operating this country in the black. All this has to be paid back, and if we keep giving the rich a break, it will all fall on the backs of the middle class. And my philosophy is simple. If you drive a Bentley, you pay the cost and maintenance for a Bentley. Don't come to me to help while I drive a Yugo.

Nobody enjoys the freedom of our country more than the wealthy, they need to pay the most for it, and every Multimillion dollar break they get, the middle must pay more, or we go further in debt.

(For more information on this exiciting and phenomenal fact, look at the escalating graph of our national debt since these big money tax breaks for big money people started, and the flatline overall tax graph of families under $60k. Then gander at that huge drop in the graph of families over $200,000)

[lhopp77]

I find it very funny that many of the wealthiest are the ones that want to take more money from the working classes instead of closing loopholes from overseas investments, bank accounts, trust funds etc. Like Kerry, Kohl, Rockefeller, Corzine, Feinstein, Lautenberg, Pelosi, Kennedy etc just to name a few that have net worths of 20-164Million. Kerry is the wealthiest and Pelosi is very close to the top. Do you hear them talking about changing trust fund laws, overseas investment laws or ANYTHING that would cut into their wealth---not hardly??

And most of them have their assets protected in such ways that the inheritance tax at any level could not touch them. The ones that hurt are the ones like I say that have hard assets like farms, relatively small businesses and have problems passing these on to their children because of the taxes.

If someone is worth 5 million in hard assests---I don't begrudge them or want to deny them the opportunity to pass their assets on to their children. It is much better than letting Democrats redistribute wealth which is never effective in eliminating poverty.

Check the tax revenues for 2004 and 2005 versus prior years. Tax cuts DO produce taxes revenues.

Lee

[Electrophil]

I'm not wanting to redistribute their wealth, I want this country out of debt.... or at least a slow down in accumulating debt. Those guys have us living way beyond our means. They are 17 year olds with credit cards.

Somebody has to pay the bills, and they spend way too much time trying to get the wealthy out of paying for the luxury most of them were born into.

If some kid inherits 15 million dollars, that kid needs to cough up about 45% to the government. He's going to waste it anyway, and most aren't even capable of spending it all if they tried... which they do try extremely hard. Paris Hilton, and that group don't need anymore wealth. If they inherit it, it's a windfall, they didn't do anything to earn it. Let them pay lottery rates, because that's what happened when they were born in those families.


If I came on a $15 million windfall, I'll most certainly settle for 8 million. But if I could bribe a republican with a million to save 5 million, I'd do that too. And that's exactly why they are tagging this rich man's addendum onto this. They are a bunch of crooks that never even tried to hide the fact they are for the wealthy.

[Electrophil]

Here you go..... How about setting it up in that bill that only farm land that can show proof of at least 60% farm production for the last 5 years will be exempt form estate taxes up to 5 million. Included will be all directly farm related items and buildings, the primary residence, and 2 vehicles used for transportation. If ownership of the farm is less than 5 years, then it must be shown the land was purchased with the express intent to be used as farm income. (I already see the loophole here.)

All non farm items, private land, and luxury items... in other words, all items that are not proven farm related will be taxed at year 2000 levels.

You think that will fly? Of course not. The poor little farmer is the last thing on their minds.

[NapaBavarian]

I never have grasped estate or gift taxes, they actually iritate me, the money has already been taxed at least once! Tax it 2 or 3 times and $10 becomes $1. How bout we trim goverment first? Oh, wait, that would be a bad idea

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Here you go..... How about setting it up in that bill that only farm land that can show proof of at least 60% farm production for the last 5 years will be exempt form estate taxes up to 5 million. Included will be all directly farm related items and buildings, the primary residence, and 2 vehicles used for transportation. If ownership of the farm is less than 5 years, then it must be shown the land was purchased with the express intent to be used as farm income. (I already see the loophole here.)

All non farm items, private land, and luxury items... in other words, all items that are not proven farm related will be taxed at year 2000 levels.

You think that will fly? Of course not. The poor little farmer is the last thing on their minds.

I wouldn't have any problem with a bill with those provisions. I am not trying to support rich investors, but families that have bonafide estates that they want to pass on to relatives.

I even think absentee land owners (ones that actually lease their land for farming) should be excluded from the benefits unless the land has been in the family for say---at least 10 years. It should be a very narrow definition of "family owned AND operated business or farm.

Lee

[lhopp77]

Remember that Estate Tax is a tax on something that has already been taxed many times over by different levels of government. IT IS NOT NEW INCOME. In many cases children have helped their parents, taken care of their parents and dedicated their lives to support of them.

Considering this is it fair???---

"First, there are places in the world that remain fine and progressive though government does not seize the assets of people who die. Canada, for example. It has no death tax. Nor does New Zealand, nor does Sweden. Denmark does, but it tops out at 15 percent, which is where ours will be if the Senate supports the compromise soon coming up for a vote. • Our federal death tax has been temporarily lowered a few percentage points, but in 2011 reverts to a top rate of 55 percent. This is 20 percentage points higher than the top rate of tax on income. It is 40 percentage points higher than the top rate on capital gains. But the death tax is not a tax on income, or even on assets sold, but on assets held, including land and shares in a family business. Really, it is a property tax.

• The ordinary property tax, about which many citizens complain, is roughly 1 percent of the value of the property. The permanent death-tax rate tops out at 55 percent."

If this inheritance is all in cash--then of course it is not impossible to pay the tax. BUT, what if nearly all of the inheritance is in land and equipment---------how can the person pay it. The govenment hopes not--so they can take it all over. THIS IS AN EXTREMELY UNFAIR TAX NO MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE.

Lee

[SubaSteevo]

Inheritance tax does not make sense to me. If my father gives me $10000, there is no tax, but if he dies and I get that same $10000 there is tax.

Next time I loan a friend money I'm going to collect tax on it, just incase they die before they have a chance to pay me back.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by SubaSteevo

Inheritance tax does not make sense to me. If my father gives me $10000, there is no tax, but if he dies and I get that same $10000 there is tax.

Next time I loan a friend money I'm going to collect tax on it, just incase they die before they have a chance to pay me back.

You could give your friend or relative a GIFT of $10K you would not be taxed. BUT--anything over that you would have to pay the same taxes as inheritance taxes.

BACK to inheritance taxes. We have said the max rate for inheritance taxes to children is 55 percent. However, say your children are gone and you want to leave it to your grandchildren--hence you have skipped a generation---THE MAX TAX IS NOW 72 PERCENT THAT THE GOVERNMENT TAKES. I think nearly everyone that hates unfair taxes as much as I do would consider this totally unfair--no matter the size of the estate.

Lee

[sorceror]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

You could give your friend or relative a GIFT of $10K you would not be taxed. BUT--anything over that you would have to pay the same taxes as inheritance taxes.

BACK to inheritance taxes. We have said the max rate for inheritance taxes to children is 55 percent. However, say your children are gone and you want to leave it to your grandchildren--hence you have skipped a generation---THE MAX TAX IS NOW 72 PERCENT THAT THE GOVERNMENT TAKES. I think nearly everyone that hates unfair taxes as much as I do would consider this totally unfair--no matter the size of the estate.

Lee

Lee, after burying my Father 4 years ago, a veteran ot the vietnam war by the way, I can not express enough anger towards the death tax! The man paid his dues, fought for this country, and paid taxes his whole life. How can a government come in to me and tell me I owe taxes on everything he left me. That seems like taxation without any representation! He paid the taxes on all the stuff at least once. The government has no claim what-so-ever to that estates' money, NONE.

I thought this was a thread about illegal aliens? It seems to have taken a turn.

Illegals come to this country knowing full well they are comitting a crime when they do so. They then comit more crimes like getting fake drivers licenses and fake social security cards. They then proceed to pay no taxes, another crime for which I would be jailed. The bleeding heart, commie, democrat liberal politicians then give them free healthcare on my dime. Many smuggle illegal drugs to this country when they come to support them while they are here. Many join gangs. The top three gangs in CA are hispanic gangs. 25% of California's prison population is made up of illegal aliens. How much overcrowding in our prisons could be eliminated if we sent back 25% of our prison population?

We tried amnesty for about 4 million of them 20 or so years ago. We got 20 million for our efforts - and the number is nearer 20 million now and not 12 million. When you nail down a bleeding heart, commie, democrat liberal politician why, they reply it is a federal problem not a state one. So our bleeding heart, commie, democrat liberal politicians selectively choose to uphold federal laws? Does this mean California is no longer affiliated with the federal government?

Next you have honest tax paying hard working Americans hiding in their homes afraid to protest this situation because the illegals will come over and start fights and throw things at them but because of our bleeding heart, commie, democrat, liberal politicians those Americans can't legally defend themselves because they will be arrested. How many Americans did that to these illegals when they had the unmitigated gall to protest on our streets proudly carrying Mexico's flag? Why are we allowing these super rich, commie, democrat, bleeding heart liberals telling us we can't defend ourselves against, and most certainly they sre, INVADERS?!

These illegals have not earned the right to be here. They have no right to step into line before all of the other nations of the world's people who are seeking entrance legally and in many cases wait years for the privelidge. These illegals because they have not earned the right to be here, have no allegiance to this country what-so-ever amd will tell you to your face they hate Americans. These illegals should not be given any kind of reward for their criminalistic activities. They and their children should be sent back and Mexico's rich need to bear the burden of taking care of her people.

Legal YES - Illegal NO!

[Nemesis Destiny]

Sorceror, you repeatedly address your Democrat politicians as being "commies" when in fact, they are quite far from it. You would do well to do your homework before making such accusations. You clearly have no idea about TRUE communism at all, much like the other 99.99999999999999998% of your country.

Though, in all fairness, from your position on the topics at hand, even if you did know what you were talking about, you still wouldn't like it...

[sorceror]

Originally Posted by Nemesis Destiny

Sorceror, you repeatedly address your Democrat politicians as being "commies" when in fact, they are quite far from it. You would do well to do your homework before making such accusations. You clearly have no idea about TRUE communism at all, much like the other 99.99999999999999998% of your country.

Though, in all fairness, from your position on the topics at hand, even if you did know what you were talking about, you still wouldn't like it...

So saith a probable member of the ISO. A person who would rather change subjects and attack people for their opinions rather than deal with the issues at hand.

You're right if I did know everything I probably wouldn't like it anymore than I don't like it now. But I will defend with my life your right to believe as you choose.

[SubaSteevo]

Originally Posted by sorceror

So saith a probable member of the ISO. A person who would rather change subjects and attack people for their opinions rather than deal with the issues at hand.

Dramatic irony at its finest!

[Nemesis Destiny]

Originally Posted by sorceror

But I will defend with my life your right to believe as you choose.

Thanks. And I would do the same. Contrary to popular belief, Socialism/Communism does not mean or even imply dictatorship, mind-control, or a lack of liberty in any way.

Originally Posted by SubaSteevo

Dramatic irony at its finest!

Couldn't agree more; I was about to say basically the same thing, but you beat me to it

[sorceror]

Look Mr. ISO man, please and with all due respect, there is a subject at hand being discussed here. Feel free to start a thread on why socialism and communism are right for you. Feel free to start one on why the ISO should dominate the world and overthrow the American way of life. Feel free to start a thread on any subject you like. If I find it interesting I may post a reply or two there. I won't, however try to convolute your thread, attack you for believing the way you do or even try to change the subject.

Please do feel free to quit attacking me and trying to convolute the subject and give us your opinion on the subject at hand. Is that out of the question?