Hummer H3

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by benebob

Just going by what GM said why they used the I5. It was something about hood clearance or something stupid like that.

That could be, but whatever it was apparently is no longer a problem.

Originally Posted by benebob

Lets take clearance as an example. It actually has less than a Wrangler when wheelbase and width is taken into acount plus due to its size it needs more clearance so it doesn't beach itself.

When you take wheelbase into account, the Wrangler comes up short by one quarter of an inch. The Wrangler also loses in approach and departure angles by a margin equally as slight. Yes the H2 is heavy, but it also has the torque to move that weight. Plus, and probably most importantly, it comes from the factory with pretty nice offroad tires.

Originally Posted by benebob

Torque yes, running gear no. I wouldn't trust it for going to the store let alone in 2 feet of snow. The best part about the jeep is the well $30k you'd save by not looking like a fat pig who can't get a hummer elsewhere so they need to buy one.

What you trust is of course your choice. It's like those window banners "It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand". They're right, I don't understand. Why would someone plop down $40k for a rough riding, short wheelbase, underpowered vehicle with an identity crisis? (note the inside is very car-like, as is the engine, while it's billed as a rugged off-road vehicle). I do however, agree with you on the price. Another example - you would be just as well off with a Tahoe or suburban, plus they are much cheaper and you wouldn't look like a wannabe driving one.

[NapaBavarian]

I would never fall under the falce belief that these things are gods gift to off road, if I wanted to go that farr off road I'd take my old wagoneer and not worry about the dents but it is the only current midsize SUV that I can stand, it actually looks more like a Jeep than some Jeeps, and it is almost identical in proportions to my first car, a 1979 Jeep full size Cherokee, a really nice size to be able to pull small trailers without being a huge truck.

The trouble with driving something that kicks butt off road on a regular basis is that it is a PITA to drive on road, and the hatred for SUVs baffels me, why no equal hatred for full sized trucks? They are even larger than most SUXs! If I got this I would actually be driving a smaller vehicle for work, isn't that a good thing?

[NapaBavarian]

Well, there is another SUV that I'd rather drive...

Here

The trouble with trusting GM as to the I6 not fiting is that they lie, nothing against GM, all the makers do it, but they may want to offer the I6 in a year or two so that I5 owners will trade in, but they can't admit that is the reason, can they. I looked at the specs on the engine, and it is a long stroke engine (can't remember if that is over square or under square) but that will produce more torque than a short stroke engine, what a small truck needs, also explains why it isn't that fast.

The H3 appears to be a very nimble climber. And it appears to have plenty of suspension travel. With its body-on-frame construction; double-A-arm and torsion-bar front and leaf-spring rear suspension systems;and 220-hp, 3.5-liter DOHC 20-valve all-aluminum inline five-cylinder Vortec engine. This engine was designed from the gound up as a truck engine and already produces plenty of torque for serious off roading at 225 lb-ft@5600 RPM; when torque exceeds horsepower on a factory fresh engine you know you've got an engine with great potential. Its only short coming is its underpowered at freeway speeds. A bit more R/D to add fifteen to twenty additional H.P and that problem will be solved. While hopefully maintaining around 15 to 18 mpg.

The approach angles appear to be very generous, and the four-wheel-drive and traction-control systems appear to work seamlessly together under sever conditions meaning rock crawling. The suspension has been reinforced over its pick up truck roots and Car and Driver recently ran it on the Rubicon Trail where it more than held its own.

[UberRoo]

Originally Posted by NapaBavarian

The trouble with driving something that kicks butt off road on a regular basis is that it is a PITA to drive on road, and the hatred for SUVs baffels me, why no equal hatred for full sized trucks?

I hate large trucks even more than SUVs. I'm amazed how many people drive enormous trucks as though they were commuter vehicles. There seems to be a relationship between the size of the truck and how often it is used as a truck. The big ones actually seem to be used as a truck less often, which suggests that their primary purpose is as an extension of manhood. Most truck owners would be better served by a van or SUV, and most SUV owners would be better served by a van. Van's just aren't cool I guess. That's the marketing genius of SUVs. "Let's take a van, make it 4WD and give it some wild styling, and promote it as an adventure vehicle for manly men." Obviously, it was a good plan. Today people are left with fewer choices when it comes to vans because all the development has gone into SUVs. Not that SUVs are necessarily bad - they're not a horribly awful alternative - but a 4WD Astro van is just as functional, and the majority of owners will never use the 4WD, let alone need it.

Stock 4x4 today? Still a Unimog.

Speaking of PITA to drive on-road, I've always wanted a Ural 5323, or a TATRA. I'm not sure what for, but I've always wanted one.

There seems to be a relationship between the size of the truck and how often it is used as a truck. The big ones actually seem to be used as a truck less often, which suggests that their primary purpose is as an extension of manhood.

Actually the relationship has more to do with safety than expressing manhood. With more and more women with families buying large trucks and SUVs each year than ever before. Women are certainly not trying to express there manhood when they purchase a large truck. No indeed. The vast majority of truck owners purchase them because they feel safer in a large heavy high riding vehicle that has four season capability often times; and all the comfort and safety features of a modern sedan.

[NapaBavarian]

Originally Posted by UberRoo

I hate large trucks even more than SUVs. I'm amazed how many people drive enormous trucks as though they were commuter vehicles. There seems to be a relationship between the size of the truck and how often it is used as a truck. The big ones actually seem to be used as a truck less often, which suggests that their primary purpose is as an extension of manhood. Most truck owners would be better served by a van or SUV, and most SUV owners would be better served by a van. Van's just aren't cool I guess. That's the marketing genius of SUVs. "Let's take a van, make it 4WD and give it some wild styling, and promote it as an adventure vehicle for manly men." Obviously, it was a good plan. Today people are left with fewer choices when it comes to vans because all the development has gone into SUVs. Not that SUVs are necessarily bad - they're not a horribly awful alternative - but a 4WD Astro van is just as functional, and the majority of owners will never use the 4WD, let alone need it.

Well, that I can't disagree with

[NapaBavarian]

Originally Posted by SVXtra

Actually the relationship has more to do with safety than expressing manhood. With more and more women with famlies buying large trucks and SUVs each year than ever before. Women are certainly not trying to express there manhood when they purchase a large truck. No indeed. The vast majority of truck owners purchase them because they feel safer in a large heavy high riding vehicle that has four season capability often times; and all the comfort and safety features of a modern sedan.

This is actually what worries me most about SUVs, when you drive a large vehicle because it is safer you take on the responsibility of being a safer driver so you don't wind up being the battering ram to someone else, but it seems that as with Volvo drivers SUV drivers become less carefull because what the he!!, they are safe...

One word UNIMOG. Thats probobly one of the few " offroaders " id drive. If it was built right anyway. There are so many different styles.

The Unimog has more gears than an antique clock...

A guy around here used to drive one to the computer store i used to work at. That thing was a beast. Such an awesome piece of machinery.

[Shadow248]

...or you could just get an M1A1.

[Bobb]

Hi everyone, I think giant trucks and SUVs are designed to increase the "manhood" of the men and woman that drive them. Many of these large vehicles are available in TWO wheel drive versions. Whats the point? Why do so many of these big things roll over. I don't think they are safer. And yes vans of any kind are not "cool". Take care, BOBB

[SubaSteevo]

Originally Posted by Bobb

And yes vans of any kind are not "cool". Take care, BOBB

I disagree

[NapaBavarian]

Originally Posted by Bobb

Hi everyone, I think giant trucks and SUVs are designed to increase the "manhood" of the men and woman that drive them. Many of these large vehicles are available in TWO wheel drive versions. Whats the point? Why do so many of these big things roll over. I don't think they are safer. And yes vans of any kind are not "cool". Take care, BOBB

It isn't so much that they don't do what they are designed for as that they don't do what the common buyers need, I'd love to be able to zip arround in a new legacy wagon, but the thing won't pull the lightest of my trailers, let alone stop it. I do find it amusing how many people drive huge trucks and don't need them, but I fail to see how that is compensating for manhood size, seems like more an excuse to not like them, the same arguement could be made for people who drive little exotic sports cars, we certinally don't need to have the ability to drive 144-160mph...