Why our country is screwed

[BoxerFanatic]

Two words in addition to lawyer compensation regulations... (which lawyers will never vote to saddle themselves with...)

"Loser pays."

On all tort suits, and even some false-accusation criminal proceedings... not just medical.

[demonsvx]

After seeing this news
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_meltdown_oversight
Im putting my confidence in our elected officials at a all time low and Americans should hold them accountable for screwing us over. Prepare yourselves for the worst its coming.

[newsvx]

So many posting here (with thoughtful opinions in some cases) are ignoring the fact that the current proposals on the table are not "single payer", but rather an alternative to the current medical insurance structure this country currently has. Stay with your current insurance company if you are happy with it and can afford it. But it is interesting to note (contrary to some of the postings) that the US does NOT have the best medical coverage in the world as sometimes touted. The studies from world health organizations point out that in infant mortality, heart disease, etc., the US lags behind other countries such as Canada and Western Europe. BUT we rank the highest in medical COST. Ever wonder why? People criticize so-called government insurance as very limiting on the care provided, but what do you think the "for-profit" insurance companies are doing every day? And if a small company - provided insurance has too many high dollar claims, what happens. Their rates are raised to the unaffordable level (for the company to provide insurance to employees) or is canceled outright. Some postings have also raised the issue of efficiency. Guess what? The average insurance company's admin costs (includes CEO pay, etc) is about 20% - in other words, they pay 80 cents of every dollar to "claims". Remember, they are "FOR-PROFIT! Now take MEDICARE, which BTW, is a "government-run" insurance company. Its admin rate is a mere 3%!! Yes, that includes pay for the government employees doing the administration. Sounds pretty efficient to me .... Are there horror stories about what MEDICARE won't / doesn't cover? You bet. But how many such horror stories have you heard recently about denied coverage under the commercial medical insurance companies? LOTS. I have been under MEDICARE program for some time now, and I don't have a problem with it, and it costs me $200 per month for both me and my wife. I qualified for "full retirement" in my last job which meant I could have medical coverage by the company's insurance (which BTW, costs had been going up each year by leaps and bounds). The cost to me and my wife? $795 per month! I couldn't afford it! I would hate to think what it is today, six years later.
Someone else raised this issue before too, but it worth repeating. Hospitals will charge someone paying out of their own pockets two or three times what the insurance companies' "contract" with the hospital requires. That is just wrong!! 3/4 of all personal bankruptcies in this country are due to medical bills, and half of those HAVE INSURANCE. They just can't pay the 20 % that the insurance does not cover, and if one has a MAJOR problem (cancer, car accident, or whatever) ....... A $100k hospital bill these days for something major is not uncommon, and how many on this thread can afford to pay $20K out of pocket? And we won't even talk about "pre - existent " conditions that the insurance companies use to deny coverage.
And BTW, for those so opposed to any government run insurance program, are you ready to refuse your MEDICARE coverage when you become 65 years old and your social security check after you retire? I thought not .........

Harry

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by newsvx

So many posting here (with thoughtful opinions in some cases) are ignoring the fact that the current proposals on the table are not "single payer", but rather an alternative to the current medical insurance structure this country currently has. Stay with your current insurance company if you are happy with it and can afford it. But it is interesting to note (contrary to some of the postings) that the US does NOT have the best medical coverage in the world as sometimes touted. The studies from world health organizations point out that in infant mortality, heart disease, etc., the US lags behind other countries such as Canada and Western Europe. BUT we rank the highest in medical COST. Ever wonder why? People criticize so-called government insurance as very limiting on the care provided, but what do you think the "for-profit" insurance companies are doing every day? And if a small company - provided insurance has too many high dollar claims, what happens. Their rates are raised to the unaffordable level (for the company to provide insurance to employees) or is canceled outright. Some postings have also raised the issue of efficiency. Guess what? The average insurance company's admin costs (includes CEO pay, etc) is about 20% - in other words, they pay 80 cents of every dollar to "claims". Remember, they are "FOR-PROFIT! Now take MEDICARE, which BTW, is a "government-run" insurance company. Its admin rate is a mere 3%!! Yes, that includes pay for the government employees doing the administration. Sounds pretty efficient to me .... Are there horror stories about what MEDICARE won't / doesn't cover? You bet. But how many such horror stories have you heard recently about denied coverage under the commercial medical insurance companies? LOTS. I have been under MEDICARE program for some time now, and I don't have a problem with it, and it costs me $200 per month for both me and my wife. I qualified for "full retirement" in my last job which meant I could have medical coverage by the company's insurance (which BTW, costs had been going up each year by leaps and bounds). The cost to me and my wife? $795 per month! I couldn't afford it! I would hate to think what it is today, six years later.
Someone else raised this issue before too, but it worth repeating. Hospitals will charge someone paying out of their own pockets two or three times what the insurance companies' "contract" with the hospital requires. That is just wrong!! 3/4 of all personal bankruptcies in this country are due to medical bills, and half of those HAVE INSURANCE. They just can't pay the 20 % that the insurance does not cover, and if one has a MAJOR problem (cancer, car accident, or whatever) ....... A $100k hospital bill these days for something major is not uncommon, and how many on this thread can afford to pay $20K out of pocket? And we won't even talk about "pre - existent " conditions that the insurance companies use to deny coverage.
And BTW, for those so opposed to any government run insurance program, are you ready to refuse your MEDICARE coverage when you become 65 years old and your social security check after you retire? I thought not .........

Harry

I am calling your hand on two different things from this post. First you ignore the true reasons for the high costs, which is stated in my post above.

The second is--I don't believe your figures and you will have to post reputable sources for them. AND--the Nobama administration is not a valid source.

(You make a big point of CEO salaries and bonuses and they piss me off too, but as a percentage of expenses they are miniscule.)

And your last statement or question is a bit different and out of context also. People that get medicare at 65 have been contributing for most of their working life. The coverage for people under the Nobama plan would be paid for by other people's taxes. BIGGGGGGGGG difference.

Lee

[newsvx]

Reference:
http://www.prwatch.org/cmd/bios.php/Wendell_Potter

and
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/profile.html be sure to watch the video ....

Harry

[newsvx]

[QUOTE=
And your last statement or question is a bit different and out of context also. People that get medicare at 65 have been contributing for most of their working life. The coverage for people under the Nobama plan would be paid for by other people's taxes. BIGGGGGGGGG difference.

Lee[/QUOTE]

Lee, very true, however, my point there was that it IS a government run insurance program, and it is very efficient, considering the commercial insurance companies. You have a better argument in regard to Social Security, but my point remains, it is a government run program. And I very much doubt that any would be willing to give them up on their principles. And remember too, the Obama proposal for health care is an alternative to the existing insurance coverage, not a replacement ....

harry

[demonsvx]

Its the wasteful spending with apparently no idea on how healthcare or any other stimulus plan will work. They are spending money that does not exist or have any backing for these programs. They are spending on the "hope" that it might work or rapidly "change" the situation our country is in. I blame the administrations of the past 25 yrs because some of the biggest crimes have been commited by them.
I am anticipating the day I go to the grocery store which will have limited items, to the bank which has limited funds, to the doctor who has limited care and a governement who has UNLIMITED POWER. Dont think it an happen? Ask someone from China, UK, North Korea, etc. about government control over their lives. It will come to this country if we stand aside and let these clowns have their way.
I recently seen a quite protest to our current administration at the local gun show this past weekend. I paid for some items which I noticed there was no tax for when there should have been. I asked why and the reply was "we refuse to support a government that does not support us" . Now you might ask yourselves "Is our government supporting us or controlling us?" I choose the latter on this because we are "told" what to do what is right. Look at the last election people were turned into "sheep" because they beleived the quotes of "hope" and "change".
Remember "hope" and "change" when you and your kids are starving, jobless and homeless. This is the same government that recently labeled our Founding Fathers "terrorists" because of the actions of the Revoluntionary War...think about that for a minute.

[newsvx]

Demon,
Just remember that we all have a vote, and we can vote those out that we disagree with just as easily as we can vote them in.
Too many people don't give the average American voters the credit they deserve. We are not dumb, and most pay attention to the issues. That said, most American do not vote but rather complain about how bad things are. An outsider would say, we get what we deserve. But one has to look at the influences on the ones that do vote. The scare tactics used by both sides to prove their points, whether accurate or not.
And let's not forget that we were fortunate enough to have a free election that decided who went to Washington. Nik pic if you will on the winning side, but the people put them there because they believed in Obama more than McCain - as well as all of the Democrats in Congress.
Those that disagree, get the facts together, get your people together, get a PLAN together that is better than the Democrats, and VOTE.
THAT's what makes this country great. We can change (there is that word again) our government anytime we want to do so, and hope (there's that "other" word again) that it works.
Harry

[BoxerFanatic]

I have a feeling that this is a bit more change than even some dems were thinking there would be.

And BTW, a PLAN, would be getting the government out of the way. The only options are not Government does A, or Government does slightly different B.

How about government is restricted in what it can do by the constitution.

As for elections... the way it is going, the 2010 mid-terms are going to be VERY interesting, as non-presidential elections go.

Vote them ALL out. Ds and Rs are all selling us down the river.

The bad part is, that people haven't taken things seriously, and are barely now figuring out that the government is NOT a benevolent overlord, NOR looking out for your best interests for you. There is one political segment that has been saying that since before the beginning, and wrote it into the declaration of independence. They aren't the progressives or liberals.

Now they start to see that they aren't looking out for you, but rather themselves... 18 months may not be soon enough to stop what is being done here to undermine the constitutionality of the US government.

It isn't a game of tug-of-war, where the rope gets pulled a few inches this way or that way, and the next time it may get pulled back the other direction, like a tacit stale-mate.

This is Freedom, livelyhood, and in some cases, life itself. (especially with the healthcare debate talking about limiting costs, which limits service. Eugenics came out of such a movement for nationalizing healthcare.)

Our country, and our freedom might not survive, as we currently know it. There are people who would rather rule the US as stifled and marginalized country than to be a part of a world superpower, and bastion of free people.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by newsvx

Reference:
http://www.prwatch.org/cmd/bios.php/Wendell_Potter

and
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/profile.html be sure to watch the video ....

Harry

As I suspected--the supporters of national healthcare are citing figures based on a stacked deck. Everyone knows that our government is inefficient, so to even THINK that they are less costly that the competitive market is unbelieveable and deserves checking.

Be sure to read:

http://www.heritage.org/research/healthcare/wm2505.cfm

Lee

[demonsvx]

Its the broad spectrum of problems with our country that worries me the most. We have a Congress that needs a total revamp come 2010, a man who claims to be our "president", a economy in shambles, unemployment in double digits, crime going up, immigration, , inflation, healthcare, local governments run by crooks,etc.

Now Im a white male 34 years of age, trying to find a job to raise 2 kids essentially by myself. Ask me what my chances are of getting a job based on "affrimative action"? This is one of the biggest jokes of my generation. Are not all men and women created equal in this country? If not then what gives? Whose to say the civil rights movement was for all people not just African-Americans? Where are the so called leaders now? Sure to hell isnt Obama, Biden, Pelosi they remind me of when my kids are in trouble and try to lie their way out of it. The minds of Americans are being "sugarcoated" with a quick fix for the problems which they created over the past 30 years. If Congress is willing to cap salaries of private business we should be able to cap their salaries also.

America is a country of individual ideas and cultures not affirmative action, political correctness, entitlement, bailouts, etc. No the government of our country wants to be the world leader in foreign affairs thus this is why we have a military base in virtually every country of the world. This is not a democracy but globalism built on the idea of protecting our "interests". Our troops die for this ridiculous cause. This is why most countries dislike us.
Screw the Middle East, Israel, China, Russia, France,etc. who cares what they think of us...until they need us, then we are the "greatest" country in the world. Why because we are a caring nation who would rather help a foreign country than our own country. This is what pisses me off. Turn the money tap off for a while, become a isolationist country, close our borders and take care of our own. The world would be screwed without us.

In the meantime I'll keep looking for a job and "hope" for "change" in my life.

Question authority and see the truth. "Revolutionize" how you think, read the Constitution and Bill of Rights, educate yourselves not through FOX, MSNBC or CNN but through history and people. Fight the system, it is YOUR RIGHT not theirs. We put them in office and we can take them out as we see fit.

[newsvx]

Originally Posted by demonsvx

America is a country of individual ideas and cultures not affirmative action, political correctness, entitlement, bailouts, etc. No the government of our country wants to be the world leader in foreign affairs thus this is why we have a military base in virtually every country of the world. This is not a democracy but globalism built on the idea of protecting our "interests". Our troops die for this ridiculous cause. This is why most countries dislike us.
Screw the Middle East, Israel, China, Russia, France,etc. who cares what they think of us...until they need us, then we are the "greatest" country in the world. Why because we are a caring nation who would rather help a foreign country than our own country. This is what pisses me off. Turn the money tap off for a while, become a isolationist country, close our borders and take care of our own. The world would be screwed without us.

In the meantime I'll keep looking for a job and "hope" for "change" in my life.

Question authority and see the truth. "Revolutionize" how you think, read the Constitution and Bill of Rights, educate yourselves not through FOX, MSNBC or CNN but through history and people. Fight the system, it is YOUR RIGHT not theirs. We put them in office and we can take them out as we see fit.

Demon,
I can not disagree with the above part of what you said. And I wish you well in finding a job - I know it is tough out there these days, and I know what it is like to be looking for a job and not finding one. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt! But remember we did not get in this economic situation overnight (certainly not during the Obama administration), but rather over the past several years. I say again, Capitalism is a form of greed, and greed has to be regulated, which this country has done a poor job of in recent years. Everything has been for the benefit of "big business", and the "consumer pays for it. Big business seems to forget that if the little guy (you and me) can not afford to buy his products because of low wages and high expenses (like medical care, transportation, etc), then his (big business') product will not be bought and his factory is closed, laying off more workers and making the situation worse. There needs to be a balance, and we aren't there yet and probably will never be. The pendulum swings back and forth ..... from one extreme to the other .....

Your last comment above is right on.

Harry

[newsvx]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

As I suspected--the supporters of national healthcare are citing figures based on a stacked deck. Everyone knows that our government is inefficient, so to even THINK that they are less costly that the competitive market is unbelieveable and deserves checking.

Be sure to read:

http://www.heritage.org/research/healthcare/wm2505.cfm

Lee

Lee, Fuzzy math abounds - on both sides. Personally, I'll stick with Public Radio and TV for a more accurate picture. I hope you played the video of Mr. Potter who was an insider of the insurance industry and knows very well what their approach / tactics are in this "profit-oriented" (as opposed to medical care) business. I find it interesting too that the "Heritage" (your source) motto is "The Left is on the March, Heritage has the Answers". Now would one think they are just a bit bias? I see also the flash statement, "Goodby to your private insurance", yet another scare tactic of the right. BTW, did you klnow the American Medical Association (AMA) has indorsed Obama's healthcare reform?

Harry

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by newsvx

Lee, Fuzzy math abounds - on both sides. Personally, I'll stick with Public Radio and TV for a more accurate picture. I hope you played the video of Mr. Potter who was an insider of the insurance industry and knows very well what their approach / tactics are in this "profit-oriented" (as opposed to medical care) business. I find it interesting too that the "Heritage" (your source) motto is "The Left is on the March, Heritage has the Answers". Now would one think they are just a bit bias? I see also the flash statement, "Goodby to your private insurance", yet another scare tactic of the right. BTW, did you klnow the American Medical Association (AMA) has indorsed Obama's healthcare reform?

Harry

Personally I think it is as "unbiased" as your sources from the liberal media that go gawgaw over socialist Nobama. I do agree that both sides can play with figures but the conservative side figures don't often get reported in the mainstream media--that is the difference.

Again, I appeal to your commom sense---when has government management of ANYTHING been efficient and less costly???????

Lee

[Subie59]

newsvx thanks for posting the Moyer interview with Wendel Potter. A friend had told me about it and I have been meaning to watch it. It is very informative and I can think of a few people on this list that would benefit immensely from taking the time to watch this interview. After watching this and reading their posts on this site, there is no question that they have taken the insurance company's bait hook line a sinker. Hope they don't get sick from eating it.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html