McCain picks Alaska's Govenor for VP

[NikFu S.]

Originally Posted by ensteele

Have you ever served in the military?

Are you implying that if I had, I would know who the secret heroes are, or that I wouldn't mind that label being thrown around like it's a sticker from a cracker jack box?

I didn't enlist despite my childhood pro-war beliefs and the majority of my family's history of "service" because I believed at the time (17 y.o.) that was a road for people with no other options. Both my parents and all their siblings who served 20 years are barely scraping their way into the middle class. You can never convince me that it takes something special to be a soldier, especially not for a measly 4-8 years. Violent aggressive behavior is human nature and humans also happen to be smart. Anyone with an IQ above 90 can do it.

You know what else? No one in my family ever says "Oh hey why won't YOU join the Army/Air Force like your mom/dad/step-dads/uncles/aunt/grandpas?"
Nobody I know has this elitist view like it somehow makes you a better person because they know better. I know better. I know not to judge people by their profession because it means very little. You don't know what one single person really thinks much less 90% of everyone. It's not possible.

Interestingly, when I asked my (gun-loving, family-raising) brothers whom were raised on the opposite side of the country from me, 13 years after I last saw them, this question of why, their answer was the same as mine. We don't believe in the system and there are no more heroes.

--
Oh, and, uh, I'll see you guys on the flightline. Incidentally I'm going on base today, like every Thursday for the past 2 years.

You know, to meet heroes.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by ensteele

I don't think you have been watching this very closely. The suicide bombers have kept the body parts flying for quite some time now.

I'm sorry Earl, I was looking more for more parts kind of like in the streets of Hong Kong. Tongues, livers, intestines, cow toes, chicken heads, etc.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

Are you implying that if I had, I would know who the secret heroes are, or that I wouldn't mind that label being thrown around like it's a sticker from a cracker jack box?

You know, to meet heroes.

Don't take this the wrong way hero, but you do look surprisingly well in a purplish-pink outfit....

[RSVX]

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

You don't know what one single person really thinks much less 90% of everyone. It's not possible.

90% of the people I knew... nowhere did I say "everyone".

[NikFu S.]

I don't get the Barney picture.

Originally Posted by RSVX

Most of the people (90%) had the same mindset as me.

I think we can agree this statement is a bit vague.

[RSVX]

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

I don't get the Barney picture.


I think we can agree this statement is a bit vague.

Yes, it is... I would hope that you would think that I wouldn't be so careless to think I knew what everyone thought...

[newsvx]

Originally Posted by RSVX

You know WHY they do it for the money? Because the pay is ALREADY SH!T. How do I know? Been there done that.

Try working in a career as demanding and dangerous as the military and after 8 years of your life you are only making slightly over $30,000 (Enlisted). Think about it.

When I was in, I happily deployed to Persian Gulf regions because I believed in what we were doing, the extra money was a bonus. Most of the people (90%) had the same mindset as me.



I know, right?



Definitely not.

How about $76 a month in 1966?? !!

Harry

[newsvx]

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

Are you implying that if I had, I would know who the secret heroes are, or that I wouldn't mind that label being thrown around like it's a sticker from a cracker jack box?

I didn't enlist despite my childhood pro-war beliefs and the majority of my family's history of "service" because I believed at the time (17 y.o.) that was a road for people with no other options. Both my parents and all their siblings who served 20 years are barely scraping their way into the middle class. You can never convince me that it takes something special to be a soldier, especially not for a measly 4-8 years. Violent aggressive behavior is human nature and humans also happen to be smart. Anyone with an IQ above 90 can do it.

You know what else? No one in my family ever says "Oh hey why won't YOU join the Army/Air Force like your mom/dad/step-dads/uncles/aunt/grandpas?"
Nobody I know has this elitist view like it somehow makes you a better person because they know better. I know better. I know not to judge people by their profession because it means very little. You don't know what one single person really thinks much less 90% of everyone. It's not possible.

Interestingly, when I asked my (gun-loving, family-raising) brothers whom were raised on the opposite side of the country from me, 13 years after I last saw them, this question of why, their answer was the same as mine. We don't believe in the system and there are no more heroes.

--
Oh, and, uh, I'll see you guys on the flightline. Incidentally I'm going on base today, like every Thursday for the past 2 years.

You know, to meet heroes.

You know, I think you totally underestimate today's soldier. There is MUCH more than simply carrying a rifle and pulling the trigger. The high tect arena is amazing - was even 20 years ago when I retired. And like even civilian life, a military carreer is what you make of it. One, you can rise to the top in the enlisted ranks (ever met a Sgt Major?) or even go to officer candidate school and become an officer. And in the intelligence field, 90 % of the civilian populace could not do it. While you say you don't judge a person's carreer, you certainly did with the military - and quite frankly, you haven't a clue what you are talking about.....

Harry

[lhopp77]

How about $68 per month when I joined (yes I went in as a private)? But by the time I retired and at my rank at the time--the pay was respectable (the retirement is respectable too). I still have a lot, and I mean a LOT of respect for the average enlisted man that sacrifices so very much for some pretty low pay. Contrary to what Nikyfooey says, it WAS NOT the last option for most of the men. I do agree with not pushing others to join--I never pushed either of my sons even though both served.

As to the personality or psychological makeup of the soldier---give me an thinking person that is afraid, but that can control the fear---that makes the best soldier under fire. AND frequently produces a very unassuming and unintended hero.

An overly aggressive soldier with no fear--will get himself and his buddies killed.

Just my opinion.

Lee

[newsvx]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

How about $68 per month when I joined (yes I went in as a private)? But by the time I retired and at my rank at the time--the pay was respectable (the retirement is respectable too). I still have a lot, and I mean a LOT of respect for the average enlisted man that sacrifices so very much for some pretty low pay. Contrary to what Nikyfooey says, it WAS NOT the last option for most of the men. I do agree with not pushing others to join--I never pushed either of my sons even though both served.

As to the personality or psychological makeup of the soldier---give me an thinking person that is afraid, but that can control the fear---that makes the best soldier under fire. AND frequently produces a very unassuming and unintended hero.

An overly aggressive soldier with no fear--will get himself and his buddies killed.

Just my opinion.

Lee

Lee,
With the salary differential, you are obviously "older than me" .

And I agree with all that you said there!!......
Harry

[NikFu S.]

Originally Posted by newsvx

You know, I think you totally underestimate today's soldier. There is MUCH more than simply carrying a rifle and pulling the trigger. The high tect arena is amazing - was even 20 years ago when I retired.
Harry

I think it is you who underestimates the average young person of this generation. Everything you call amazing we take for granted, and rightly so...

[newsvx]

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

I think it is you who underestimates the average young person of this generation. Everything you call amazing we take for granted, and rightly so...

Sorry, but you are still demonstrating you don't have a clue. After I retired in 1986 from the Army, I started a second carreer in the defense industry. As a result, my info is quite current. It appears that you have no idea of the technology our troops work with on a daily basis ....
The average person could not do what our troop do today.

Harry

[NikFu S.]

Sounds elitist. Define "average person".
Also, quantify your experience with "average people" and compare it to non-average people.

[newsvx]

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

Sounds elitist. Define "average person".
Also, quantify your experience with "average people" and compare it to non-average people.

Nik,
Seems you are defining it with every post. And I refer you to one of your statements, "You can never convince me that it takes something special to be a soldier, especially not for a measly 4-8 years. "
I do think it takes something special to be a soldier in today's armed forces. It is "safe" to take a civilian job (depending on the job, of course), but it is something else all together to sign up for the military knowing you could be putting you life on the line for those that don't. That, to me, is indeed something special. I am sure you will disagree, but if you have ever had someone you had to totally depend on and he / she on you, then you would understand. And BTW, I don't even expect everyone to understand and appreciate that.
Harry

[NikFu S.]

I'm interpreting your rather evasive answer as "people who enlist have guts, and nobody else does."

There are countless other jobs where people's lives are on the line. I don't see that as a defining attribute of a soldier.