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#136
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word for word you did not say it like that. but in generalization I felt it fit
As Tom mentioned too...(not word for word) The kit modifies shifting in a way it was not designed for. I cant see any positive mechanical result with prolonged use. Internal components will wear out quicker then they would under normal use, Looking at the dyno charts makes that a fact. People just need to be aware of that looking at the dyno charts also makes me want one because it does provide a significant increase in power at the wheels. And If my tranny breaks, so what! Ive got spares, Not everyone does thou.... Quote:
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Eric Rebuilt P/S pump info... http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50918 If your car wont start info... http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...ighlight=click |
#137
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As for the box not being designed to do this, Subaru did not worry about putting this box behind the RS turbo, or the WRX, without turning the torque down. For the SVX they wanted that smooth, luxury, high priced change. Harvey.
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One Arm Bloke. Tell it like it is! 95 Lsi. Bordeaux Pearl, Aust. RHD.149,000Kls Subaru BBS wheels. 97 Liberty GX Auto sedan. 320,000Kls. 04 Liberty 30R Auto Premium. 92.000kls. Last edited by oab_au; 05-31-2008 at 06:17 PM. |
#138
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I have been corresponding with officialdom by PM and now am aware of the circumstances involved, having been advised:- “Don't play dumb with me, it doesnt suit you. Everyone that has half a brain knows EXACTLY why you started that thread. Harvey's post rang of the truth and was not disrespectful in tone. He merely called a spade a spade. Myself, other admins/mods, and even other members know why you started that thread. Not to share the topic of something new for the community, but to give yourself an opportunity to take a few shots at Harvey.” If those with half a brain are so inclined this is of no concern. However the fact that the deletion my complete post was based on prejudice, rather than fact/content, most certainly is. Others have been very critical within the thread. I gather it was expected that I would join in very early, with vigour and glee. The anticipants were disappointed. At the time of posting, your gismo was being offered solely via a competing site and given that you have again been active here, this did make me disgruntled and possibly wrongly affect my desire to promote the news. Whatever, at any time on either site, a simple message, posted by you, e.g. “A little patience is required as testing is not quite complete and I must make sure nothing is overlooked”, would surely have provided the leeway you have claimed I denied you. In any event let it all be water under the bridge. It will be interesting to see if this post is allowed viewing, as it must be in danger of being considered as highly political. Several have discounted your claim of an increase in horsepower, but they are not in fact correct. The best way for them to understand what is involved is to compare an old fashioned, fluid fly wheel (FFW), with a modern torque converter (TC). The FFW comprised a simple driving impeller and an output ‘turbine’ coupled hydraulically. While similar, a TC incorporates what could be termed an hydraulic fluid feed back system, whereby second use is made of the reciprocating fluid in order to improve efficiency. By example, if both machines were set up with the output shafts braked to the same degree, but allowed to rotate, and equal power applied at the input impellers, performances would not equate. Measurement would disclose a higher torque applied via the TC and the output shaft would rotate faster than that of the FFW. This reaction would exactly indicate an increase in horse power as a result of torque gain within the TC. A Google will provide those unsure with details of exactly how this is achieved. The degree of torque is dependent on the difference in rotation between input and output as a result of applied power and driven load and in your application the time involved in these becoming equal after a gear change. Both factors are important within the equation, but here time has a duplicate effect. How long is the spike? Is it showing torque/power applied for sufficient time to significantly affect performance? I believe your profit will likely depend on placebo and the tactile sensation of a more sporting type of car. If all are happy what the hell. The possibility of damage is open to conjecture. Increasing the line pressure as part of the exercise could well overcome friction surface wear. Shock increases should not be too bad on moves up the ratios, but coming down possibly involves factors not yet disclosed. Complete details are awaited with interest. P.S. I have just read YT's analysis elsewhere, of how the spike records transmission engagement at a point when the engine speed exceeds output requirements. I have not mentioned this additional factor as it is surely self evident. Trevor.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! Last edited by Trevor; 06-01-2008 at 05:56 PM. Reason: P.S. |
#139
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I'm interested to see some timeslips from the guys who have a good history at the dragstrip. It seems the improvement during the shift would have to show up at the strip. Harvey stated on the SWF that the QC along with the power mode mod will provide engine braking in all gears. That would be excellent for the twisty backroads.
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Matt Locker Link 2015 BRZ Limited 6MT 92 Ebony LS-L ECUtune Stage2av1, Z32 MAF, 370cc injectors, TomsSVX intake, BontragerWorks 22mm RSB #003, HID Hi and Lo beams, OT endlink and bushing mods, PWR Aluminum radiator, Harvey's QC shift kit, 2.5" flowmaster 80 exhaust, 17" Michelin Pilot Sport A/S, Poly sway bar bushings, Slotted Bradi rotors, AFBeefcake powdercoated calipers, 97 grill, and a huge set of air horns. 300,000 miles and counting 92 Ebony LS-L. ecutune stage1v4, motorsport 1pc pulley. Garage Queen - sold to Dad in upstate NY 155,000 miles 19 Subaru Ascent Premium - -Hers !. 89 DL 4x4 little red wagon - a.k.a. The immortal suby. 275k R.I.P. |
#140
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I almost forgot what this thread was about....allow me to summarized the last several pages.
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#141
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After reading all of this great info,do anyone run dual air fuel ratio gauges if so you can really see during wot shifts that the right half of the engine is being shut down.Even when I ran nos the same always happen.New question if the QC adressing this issue it should stand to benefit your engine by appling full power with both engine halves running during shifts.Your will only see this if you are running 2 a/f ratio meters,the right half always go blink for a milisecond.I hope this will help.
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#142
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Maybe the increase in hp is just the other half of the engine .
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#143
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Picture tells the story.
Deciphering Dyno charts for some is like me, looking at Phil’s source code. It looks very good, but tells me nothing. To Phil it has a whole lot of clues in plain sight.
Reading a torque chart tells me every thing about the performance of the engine and transmission. Everybody looks at the Numbers, how much power does it make? I look at the shape of the curve, is it flat or peaky, are there any dips or peaks. What happened in the breathing to cause that dip or was it the exhaust? The charts that Tina posted, shows the torque delivered to the wheels through the 1st-2nd gear change that we can read, to see the effects of the change on wheel power. To understand this we have to know that the ratio change does to the flow. When we do the ratio change from first gears ratio of 2.785:1 to second gears 1.515:1 we will be changing the speed of the engine by 2800 rpm. At full throttle the auto box will change at 6500 rpm, so the engine speed has to slow to 3700 rpm. In the before chart we see the torque line rising fast at the start and slowly decrease as the speed rises. At about 34.5 MPH/6500RPM the fuel injection pulse to every second injector is turned off. At the first green line the band is applied and the box is in second gear. The rise in the torque line between the two green lines is the Torque converter slowing the engine down the necessary 2800 rpms. This is helped by the 50% torque cut that is on, but the torque still increases as the 2800 rpm difference brings the converters torque multiplication factor up to 1.9 times. As the engine slows and the speed difference reduces so does the torque factor. The peak of this is reached at about 36 MPH and the engine has come down to speed at about 37 MPH, the injection is brought back on gradually to conform to the “no change felt policy”, and the engine is restored to full power at about 38 MPH. All the time between the two red lines is the lag that we feel, about 4.5 MPHs worth. In the after chart a better view shows the three changes into 2,3,4. In this chart we see by the flat Air/Fuel curve that there is no cut made. The change takes place at the first of the green lines at about 33-34 MPH/6500 RPM. When the band is applied and the box is in second gear, the torque converter starts to slow the engine, but because the engine is still at full power the multiplication factor of about 1.9, results in a much higher torque output, peaking on the red line, at about 36 MPH. By about 38-39 MPH the engine has slowed to the new ratio speed of 3700. This is fortunate as this puts us right in the middle of the Inlets Inertia torque curve, where it is putting out 90 odd % of the total torque, this then multiplying by the factor of 1.9 produces an increase torque flow of about 227 ft lbs. The other things to be noticed is that when the band is applied at the first green line, there is no shock recorded in the torque, as it would have shown up as a sharp increase. over a very short period. The following torque peak is due to the converter multiplying the torque over a longer period that is felt as a surg, and as the hydraulic engagement pressure is increased in this time, the band can easily hold this increase. Comparing the 3 changes, it can be seen that the amplitude of the torque peaks reduces as the gearing is increased, the 3-4 change has a lower torque peak that the 1-2 change. You should note that Tina’s car is fitted with 4.44:1 diffs so the lower ratio produces torque peaks in her car, that will be higher, and over a shorter period, than a car with the STD 3.45:1 diff ratio. Harvey.
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One Arm Bloke. Tell it like it is! 95 Lsi. Bordeaux Pearl, Aust. RHD.149,000Kls Subaru BBS wheels. 97 Liberty GX Auto sedan. 320,000Kls. 04 Liberty 30R Auto Premium. 92.000kls. |
#144
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Your car on the gas would have put a fair bit of torque through the change into second gear. I have been trying to find the post where Michael dynoed his Nitrous kit back in 2004. You may remember, I know Matt would, but it hit around 440 ft lbs on the change. so the box can take it. Harvey.
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One Arm Bloke. Tell it like it is! 95 Lsi. Bordeaux Pearl, Aust. RHD.149,000Kls Subaru BBS wheels. 97 Liberty GX Auto sedan. 320,000Kls. 04 Liberty 30R Auto Premium. 92.000kls. |
#145
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You claim that there is an increase in the performance of the car. If so there must be an increase in horsepower at the wheels and as I have explained in my last post, this does occur. But you are here saying the power remains the same.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
#146
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It is in the torque converters conversion, that the torque is increased but the power remains the same. As the torque is increased, the different speed between the two converters elements is increased. As with any mechanical advantage. But what you say in your post is basically right. Harvey.
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One Arm Bloke. Tell it like it is! 95 Lsi. Bordeaux Pearl, Aust. RHD.149,000Kls Subaru BBS wheels. 97 Liberty GX Auto sedan. 320,000Kls. 04 Liberty 30R Auto Premium. 92.000kls. |
#147
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So how does the QC operate?
I'm guessing that it detects the gearchange by reading the voltage on the TCU torque control line (which is no longer connected to the ECU) and then overrides the signal to Duty Sol A that controls the line pressure. Is that right, or is there more to it than that?
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Subaru ECU and TCU Website 1992 Alcyone SVX Version L 1992 Alcyone SVX Version L 1994 Alcyone SVX S40-II 2004 Subaru Legacy 2.5 SE Sports Tourer 1996 Subaru Legacy 2.2 GX Wagon 1988 Subaru Justy J12 SL-II |
#148
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Chris SVX World Network Administrator -1993 Subaru SVX LS-L, Barcelona Red, #46, 160,000+ Miles (Sold to SomethingElse) -2011 Toyota Sienna SE, Black, 30,000+ Miles (Swagger Wagon ) -2002 BMW R 1150R ABS, Black, 26,000+ Miles (Daily Driver ) SVX Owner from February 1997 to March 2008 SVX Online Community Member since February 1998 SVX World Network Member since February 2002, Member #520 Life is a game. Play to win. The world belongs to those who can laugh at it. |
#149
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Yes. I read that. But it is not a complete explanation. I was hoping that Harvey would provide some further clarification.
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I am not asking WHAT it does, I am asking HOW it does it.
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Subaru ECU and TCU Website 1992 Alcyone SVX Version L 1992 Alcyone SVX Version L 1994 Alcyone SVX S40-II 2004 Subaru Legacy 2.5 SE Sports Tourer 1996 Subaru Legacy 2.2 GX Wagon 1988 Subaru Justy J12 SL-II Last edited by b3lha; 06-02-2008 at 07:51 AM. |
#150
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I lose
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Chris SVX World Network Administrator -1993 Subaru SVX LS-L, Barcelona Red, #46, 160,000+ Miles (Sold to SomethingElse) -2011 Toyota Sienna SE, Black, 30,000+ Miles (Swagger Wagon ) -2002 BMW R 1150R ABS, Black, 26,000+ Miles (Daily Driver ) SVX Owner from February 1997 to March 2008 SVX Online Community Member since February 1998 SVX World Network Member since February 2002, Member #520 Life is a game. Play to win. The world belongs to those who can laugh at it. |
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