Is the guy at Advance Auto full of it?

Huskymaniac · #1 09-19-2011, 09:07 PM

Here's the story. I went to pick up my son after his cross country practice. It was a nice day out so I turned off the car and listened to the radio (about 25-30% of full volume) while I waited. His bus was pretty late getting back. I was sitting there for about 30 minutes. The only other thing that was running was the blower fan which was on medium. The battery weakened to the point of not being able to start the car. I thought that was a bit too fast so I decided to just walk down the street to Advance Auto to buy a new battery. The guy there said that a battery older than a couple of years would probably not be able to hold a charge under those conditions for 30 minutes. That seems crazy to me. I know a car battery is made for cranking and not deep cycles but it should have more AH than that, no? One thing to note is that the battery in the car is one from Advance Auto and it still under partial warranty. Sounds like they don't want me to return my weak!$* battery.

steveherman · #2 09-19-2011, 10:16 PM

30 minutes with blower motor and radio on...
i would think most if not all batteries would have a hard time starting a car after that.
the blower motor uses alot of juice.

Manarius · #3 09-19-2011, 10:17 PM

Well, if the blower fan was on, that would mean you had the car in the "ON" position, not the "ACC" position. In the "ON" position, more than just the blower and radio are on. The whole ignition system is also primed and ready to go. So, that includes the igniter, all the coils, the fuel pump, the radiator fans, etc. So, for 30 minutes for the car to sit in the "ON" position without the car being on with all that stuff going seems pretty reasonable to weaken the battery to the point of not being able to start the car.

I never leave the car in the "ON" position unless the engine is actually running. I don't want to burn up the coils or igniter for no good reason.

XT6Wagon · #4 09-19-2011, 10:23 PM

Um, what? no. My XJR I left the lights on for 13hrs and it still started.

Most normal sized batteries like the SVX's should be able to do that for a couple hours without an issue. If you had the lights on and your foot on the brake pedal, maybe less.

should get 30min of just radio and fan even with a little riding lawnmower battery (aka honda battery)

Green1995SVX · #5 09-19-2011, 11:42 PM

My A6 has its original factory battery which is now 10 years old. I can leave the interior lights on all night, and it still starts fine. Unless you've got some sort of ultra-cheap battery, I'd say he's pretty full of it.

1986nate · #6 09-20-2011, 12:36 AM

Agreed. The one in my parents Durango is still original and it's an 02 model year, so running over 9 years now at the minimum and no issues.

dcarrb · #7 09-20-2011, 05:47 AM

There are too many variables to say. I've left a door ajar overnight and found just the silly dome light drained the battery, but did the same thing with my silver SVX recently and it cranked right up. Never had a hint of trouble from the battery that came in my teal SVX 'til one day at a gas pump: Turned the key to leave and it didn't even have enough juice to click (and it was indeed the battery, not a starter relay thing).

Anything that rotates or generates heat will draw much more power than something solid-state, such as the radio. I'd be reluctant to sit for more than a couple of minutes with the blower running. And this rationale may be outdated, for all I know, but I too think it's not a good idea to sit with the switch ON without the engine running any longer than absolutely necessary.

dcb

Huskymaniac · #8 09-20-2011, 05:51 AM

Ugh, as usual the answers range from no way to absolutely. Well, I am going to get the battery tested to see for sure but it should have a 110 minute reserve at 25A draw. Maybe it is me but I find it hard to believe I was drawing 25A and it was only for 30 minutes. The battery is actually less than 2 years old as it turns out. It is under full warranty. Now, should I trust the guys at AA to do the test properly and be honest about the results?

I suppose it is also possible that my alternator is going.

Manarius · #9 09-21-2011, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huskymaniac

I discovered one thing I didn't think of...the radiator fans. Even though the A/C wasn't on, the car had warmed up enough to kick on the fans. I have no idea how long those fans were running the other day out of the 30 minutes total time I was sitting there. But when they are on, the draw is 35A. I would think the battery should still be OK with a 35A draw for 30 minutes but I don't know how much faster the reserve capacity draws down at 35A versus 25A.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manarius

Well, if the blower fan was on, that would mean you had the car in the "ON" position, not the "ACC" position. In the "ON" position, more than just the blower and radio are on. The whole ignition system is also primed and ready to go. So, that includes the igniter, all the coils, the fuel pump, the radiator fans, etc. So, for 30 minutes for the car to sit in the "ON" position without the car being on with all that stuff going seems pretty reasonable to weaken the battery to the point of not being able to start the car.

I never leave the car in the "ON" position unless the engine is actually running. I don't want to burn up the coils or igniter for no good reason.

Moral to the story is, if you're sitting in the car, either ACC or engine running. Sitting in the "ON" position is no bueno.

wdb · #10 09-21-2011, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huskymaniac

I have an unrelated question for you. I have a battery backup sump pump. It was installed in January 2006. The batteries are deep cycle batteries from Interstate. They have been on a battery monitor/charger for these 5+ years. Any idea how long I should keep them before replacing them? I am starting to get some stuff seeping out of the caps so I suspect they are at the end of their useful life.

A new battery is cheap insurance.

My dad's battery sump pump failed 20 minutes into the Irene-induced power outage. Cause was an old battery, which turned out to have almost no reserve power. Result was a lost night's sleep for him and me, failure to get the pump rigged up to a car battery before the basement flooded, and a $2400 bill for cleanup/dryout/decontamination.

Huskymaniac · #11 09-21-2011, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdb

A new battery is cheap insurance.

My dad's battery sump pump failed 20 minutes into the Irene-induced power outage. Cause was an old battery, which turned out to have almost no reserve power. Result was a lost night's sleep for him and me, failure to get the pump rigged up to a car battery before the basement flooded, and a $2400 bill for cleanup/dryout/decontamination.

That sucks. If there is any place with worse weather and water problems than here, it is NE PA. How old was the battery?

wdb · #12 09-26-2011, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huskymaniac

How old was the battery?

5 or 6 years.

Huskymaniac · #13 10-24-2011, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdb

A new battery is cheap insurance.

My dad's battery sump pump failed 20 minutes into the Irene-induced power outage. Cause was an old battery, which turned out to have almost no reserve power. Result was a lost night's sleep for him and me, failure to get the pump rigged up to a car battery before the basement flooded, and a $2400 bill for cleanup/dryout/decontamination.

Update on this. I drove to a side of our neighborhood I don't usually drive to. Why? The Servicemaster van was in the driveway of one of my neighbors. They also had a dumpster full of debris. Next door to them I saw a very long corrugated pipe coming from their neighbor's house. I'm guessing those two tropical storm remnants flooded basements of houses that don't usually get water.

So I am starting to look more closely at replacement batteries. I have two currently hooked up to my backup pump. The manual for the pump says the pump can run for 9 hours on a typical group 27 deep cycle battery (rated for 105 AH when drained over 20 hours). The two batteries I have now are blemished Interstate SRM-27B batteries. They have a 20 hour rating of 102 AH. They are made by Johnson Controls. I can replace them with full cost versions of the same model from Interstate.

Sears has recently switched from JCI to Deka batteries. For the same cost as the full price SRM-27B ($115 each), I can get a Deka DP31DT which has a 20 hour capacity of 100 AH. While slightly less capacity, Deka batteries (made in the Reading, PA area) are supposedly much better batteries with a longer operating life.

Another, cheaper, option is to buy a JCI battery from Autozone. They have the JCI SRM-24 for $80 and each battery has a 20 hour capacity of 86 AH. That is a better deal but it is a JCI versus a Deka.

I am leaning toward the Deka due to reliability. With two of those batteries my pump can run continuously for 16 hours verus 13 with the Autozone JCI battery. And those run times assume pumping 900 gallons per hour at 10'. I don't think our pump rate gets quite that high nor are we pumping up a full 10'. Plus, we have a bit of a siphoning effect as the outlet is below the pump level in the back yard so that helps a little.

Anyone have any experience with Deka/East Penn batteries?

Huskymaniac · #14 10-25-2011, 07:16 AM

On a related note, does anyone live near the East Penn factory that might be coming up to NY soon? I hear they have a factory store and the batteries are a great deal there.

kwren · #15 09-21-2011, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huskymaniac

The battery weakened to the point of not being able to start the car.

It has been several years since this happened and I don't remember the details but something I was doing to the car required that the ignition switch had to be turned to "run". This condition was only for a few minutes, but when I tried to start the car, it wouldn't fire up and I had to wait a bit to get the ignition system to fire. I didn't try to find out why, but simply haven't done that again.

You did not say what happened when you tried to start your car after having the ignition switch to run for "about 30 minutes", but my solution was simply to get the battery charged and go on with my life. Needless to say, I have not let any car sit there with the ignition switch on for an extended amount of time again!

Costco batteries are great and they do not even have a way to test them, if you bring one back during the warranty period, which is a great warranty period, they will just replace it. No questions asked.

Good luck!

Keith