Reaper turbo kit

[Reaper450128]

Just a quick note so no one thinks I'm just BSing, I've got preliminary numbers coming in at around $1500, not including an accurate injector price or the custom pipe work. I won't go into too much detail here as it would get kind of complicated to explain my setup, but briefly:

Single Mitsubishi 16G (regular one, for those who know them): $525
A pair of 450cc injectors (don't ask just yet, I'll explain when I'm closer to done): estimated $200
Greddy e-Manage w/software and inputs: about $500,
Other turbo parts: about $200
Other fuel system parts: about $80

Michael, if you're interested I'll PM you with a more accurate description of my current intent.

[mbtoloczko]

Tapping the two throttle bodies with a pair of injectors is one way to do it. Kinda like a permanent wet nitrous kit. Your costs are fine for a DIY kit, but for someone who's going to bring a kit to market, you also need to include exhaust system and intake system design and fabrication costs which will not be cheap.

[TomsSVX]

Let's all get one thing right. Longassname is making a roots style blower system, if you want a turbo?? make your own system, spend 7 grand on a system you will be trying to tune for a couple years. He is making a clean system that will be dependable and probobly gaurenteed to work if installed properly. a single turbo for our cars is custom and not gaurenteed to work to it's full potential. Let him develope his system and stop badgering him about what you think is better. Also, if you are torn between whether or not a turbo or blower is better, use both. I've seen it done on an mr2 so do that to make sure you have the best ever. Im really anoyed at people telling him to do something else, do it yourself if you are so confident.

[Reaper450128]

Originally posted by tomssvx
Let's all get one thing right. Longassname is making a roots style blower system, if you want a turbo?? make your own system, spend 7 grand on a system you will be trying to tune for a couple years. He is making a clean system that will be dependable and probobly gaurenteed to work if installed properly. a single turbo for our cars is custom and not gaurenteed to work to it's full potential. Let him develope his system and stop badgering him about what you think is better. Also, if you are torn between whether or not a turbo or blower is better, use both. I've seen it done on an mr2 so do that to make sure you have the best ever. Im really anoyed at people telling him to do something else, do it yourself if you are so confident.

OK, lets get one thing straight: I'm doing this to prove a point, that's all. If people want to buy his kit that's perfectly fine, I encourage it over waiting until I'm done with mine, as I don't have the financial resources he apparently does. However, I am still going to do this, and I will prove that an equally effective turbo kit can be made for far less than he is selling his blower for. That's my only intention here. If people don't want to hear about it here I'll either take it to a direct PM conversation with Michael if he's interested, or to a separate thread. I'm not telling him to do something else, I'm simply saying that I don't believe his idea is the most cost-effective, and this is what I'm doing instead. I'm glad to see that someone is making a concerted effort to improve our cars, I applaud him for doing that.

[Reaper450128]

Originally posted by mbtoloczko
Tapping the two throttle bodies with a pair of injectors is one way to do it. Kinda like a permanent wet nitrous kit. Your costs are fine for a DIY kit, but for someone who's going to bring a kit to market, you also need to include exhaust system and intake system design and fabrication costs which will not be cheap.

Yes, I am planning on tapping the intake manifold with a pair of injectors, controlled by the e-Manage. As far as the exhaust and intake, I am considering all these parts in my price estimate under custom pipe work, when done the kit will include everything neccessary to bolt it on and go, with the minor required fine-tuning of course. Also, I don't believe a full new exhaust will really be necessary for this level of boost. This turbo will be spooled almost immediately on this engine, so much of the exhaust will pass by the turbine through the waste-gate very early and therefore not act much differently than stock, just a bit larger quantity than normal. If I was looking at more than 6psi it might be neccessary, as would an intercooler and apparently new engine internals.

[TomsSVX]

what you doing is actually contradicting his own work. You are mearly taking a shot in the dark as where he has done the research and has come up with the most cost effective, and reliable way to make power. If you can do better prove, just somewhere else and then come back when you have results. Just make sure you know that you are not dealing with an eclipse, this is not a normal engine and won't be as easy as you think, ask anyone who is still trying to figure out what the hell they are going to do with their turbo svx?? Almost all of them have their own problems

[mbtoloczko]

Originally posted by Reaper450128


Yes, I am planning on tapping the intake manifold with a pair of injectors, controlled by the e-Manage. As far as the exhaust and intake, I am considering all these parts in my price estimate under custom pipe work, when done the kit will include everything neccessary to bolt it on and go, with the minor required fine-tuning of course. Also, I don't believe a full new exhaust will really be necessary for this level of boost. This turbo will be spooled almost immediately on this engine, so much of the exhaust will pass by the turbine through the waste-gate very early and therefore not act much differently than stock, just a bit larger quantity than normal. If I was looking at more than 6psi it might be neccessary, as would an intercooler and apparently new engine internals.

You're fairly optimistic about custom fabrication costs. I would expect a custom up-pipe/down-pipe combo to cost around least $1k. Shop time is not cheap. Now if you're making the up/down yourself, that's another story. That doesn't count in a comparison with longass's estimated cost of his blower because he's looking at it from a production perspective.

There's also engine timing under boost to consider. How do you plan to deal with that?

So you're going to use an external wastegate? Do you plan to route the waste gate exit to the rear of the car and put a muffler on it? If not, then you'll get a ticket pretty quick.

[immortal_suby]

I split this discussion to it's own thread - please reply here about the turbo kit to avoid confusion in the other thread.

[Noir]

hey guys come on now. let's not get into a fight over here. i'd say let both create their kits and then compare. the results will be proof. hats off to both of you for trying to fabricate something that isn't available for our prized possession.

[Chiketkd]

Exactly! I'm with Noir

Originally posted by Noir
hey guys come on now. let's not get into a fight over here. i'd say let both create their kits and then compare. the results will be proof. hats off to both of you for trying to fabricate something that isn't available for prized possession.

[Reaper450128]

I appreciate the support Noir, Chiketkd. The other thought that's been in my mind, particularly since the backlash from certain members began, is that competition creates innovation, so if this is a competition, the community can only benefit from it. All I really set out to do is prove him wrong on the point that a turbo kit capable of the same gains couldn't be setup for siginificantly cheaper than his setup, so that's my primary goal. If it results in a decently effective turbo kit for our cars, all the better, if not then his supercharger will still be there as an option for those who want it.

As far as the timing, the e-Manage is capable of handling that as well; it may be fun figuring out how to wire it in, but we'll see.

As far as fabrication costs, I'm not looking at that many custom parts. There will be a modification to the existing manifold sending both sides to a collector at the turbine, a pipe back from the turbine to around the points where the headers attach to the exhaust now, and two pipes for the intake. None of them are particularly complicated. From what I've seen of other people getting pipe work done it shouldn't be that expensive, and I think it could pretty easily fit in the remaining $500 of my estimate, though I suppose another $100 or $200 beyond that is possible.

Its a little interesting that someone mentioned an Eclipse, as that's where many of the parts are coming from (the turbo, blow-off, injectors). I need to check with my "consultant" (DSM-owning friend whose given me most of my setup ideas) to be certain, but the wastegate should be dumping into the normal exhaust system, I see no reason why that would cause a problem. And tomssvx, how is this not a normal engine? I see nothing particularly special about it, no issues that would be present with this that won't be in Michael's setup.

Now, unfortunately as I mentioned, just so everyone understands I'm only a college kid on a living on a Wal-Mart paycheck. As long as I'm living at home (the forseeable future right now) most of that paycheck can go towards this, but it will probably take me a while to have anything to show. On top of that, none of this is coming off the drawing board until my transmission is finished and reinstalled, though that should be soon, just awaiting a few parts.

[mbtoloczko]

If you dump the wastegate stream back into the exhaust pipe, the factory exhaust is going to choke the motor at high rpm/throttle position. longassname will have the same problem. It will work, but you'll be nowhere near the full potential of the turbo.

[TomsSVX]

they are different in a couple ways, the fact that our compresion ratio is so high means minimal boost is still pushing the envelope and also the fact that there are close to no aftermarket parts for our motors so upgrades will be rough and heavy on the wallet unlike an eclipse as where you could go to any half assed parts shop and build a car in the parking lot. Its mearly availability and incompatability. The svx is the only car with a flat 3.3 non-interference motor, as opposed to a car like an eclipse where as the same motor was used in several different models, even the turbo was used in the galant for pete's sake. All i am trying to say is the turbo sounds like a great idea but it is not ideal for the svx due to powerband and engine tuning control. The svx powerband takes a dump at around 5400 rpms and the turbo will probobly spool at around 2500+ so that gives you what, about 3000 rpms of good power as compared to the blower will give you good power throughout. Believe me, i am a college kid too, im 19 and done a lot of work on cars for a kid my age, the svx is suited better for a blower than a turbo. But hey i am not one to stop you, if you can make a good turbo kit and produce it for the public thats incredible and i give you my respect, but right now you are still in the drawing stages and won't know a price until you get a good working production model. Also if you do decide to go through with the turbo, you might want to consider a t3/t4 hybrid, it's quite a bit bigger and with our engines it would spoon up fast, also give way for an engine rebuild for more power, just a thought. Speaking of that get in touch with some turbo companies and spill your guts to them and tell them you would have an audience awaiting final production, they could help you fund your project.

[Phast SVX]

a 500cfm(small tdo4-16g) would be a RESTRICTION to a 3.3 litre engine. Reccamended placement is on nothing larger then 2.4 litres. Its a very populer upgrade for 2.0 litre 4g63 dsm's and also in PAIRS to replace the stock duel 13g'd 3k/S VR4's
phil

[Motorsport-SVX]

Originally posted by mbtoloczko


So you're going to use an external wastegate? Do you plan to route the waste gate exit to the rear of the car and put a muffler on it? If not, then you'll get a ticket pretty quick.

My Soarer and pretty much every single turbo supra around
town has an External wastegate, mines a HKS racing version.
It exits the excess flow directly into my single 3"
downpipe. Its basically the only proper way to do it, What the heck are you talking about ????