So You Won't Forget

[lhopp77]

Everyone needs to view this AGAIN just so you won't forget how we got where we are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&NR=1

Over a TRILLION more dollars of debt that has ludicrous earmarks and only about half dealing with the current job crisis.

"Change?????" Seems business as usual appointing corrupt long term Washington insiders AND already taking steps to imasculate our intel community and defense.

Lee

[oregondave]

sounds like a fresh set of limpball's talking points.

[ensteele]

How soon they forget!

[JaySVX]

"lets get lower income families into homes" great plan and all, but what motivation do banks have to give money to people that are significantly less likely to be able to pay it back. And I don't know about most areas, but around here, there are no homes in a lower income range, they start at $250,000, even town homes. I'm not sure what they define as "lower income", but that comes to $1672.18 a month assuming 5.25% interest, $3000 in annual taxes, and $500 for insurance. I associate lower income families as families making under $50k/yr. at $50k/yr, $1672.18 is almost impossible. Lower end homes are typically heated by oil heat, $400/mo to heat your home. Electric around $150, and all of a sudden you are at $2200 for your house every month. Now assume you want to eat, but not very often. That's $200-400 a month. You're roughly $2500/mo for your home for mortgage, taxes, insurance, heat, electric, and food. The average take home of a family making $50k/yr is $2500/mo. Rabbit ears on the tv, and bicycling to work sounds like fun.

The real solution to me would be build less expensive houses, without making a ghetto. Then perhaps people who can't afford as much would see it as possible to buy a house, and banks would be more likely to lend money to people if it's for something they can actually afford.

[RSVX]

Originally Posted by oregondave

sounds like a fresh set of limpball's talking points.

Nice rebuttal.

Thanks for all of the substance/facts and none of the distractionary/bullsh!t tactics...

Oh wait.

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Everyone needs to view this AGAIN just so you won't forget how we got where we are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&NR=1

Over a TRILLION more dollars of debt that has ludicrous earmarks and only about half dealing with the current job crisis.

"Change?????" Seems business as usual appointing corrupt long term Washington insiders AND already taking steps to imasculate our intel community and defense.

Lee

Lee, I'm not too happy with how governments are tackling the financial crisis right now, we got the same crap here.

Here we have billions of Euro being lost by mega millions developers and investors, aka gamblers. The solution seems to be have the government step in and pick up the tab for these crooked sobs getting it wrong. That's you and me the taxpayers picking up the tab for Bentley and Ferrari driving greedmongers. Great politics altogether.

In relation to your video though I have to say one thing; your sub prime crisis started, gained momentum and got to critical mass on the Republican government's watch.

Maybe they were spending too much time and money looking for WMDs and not enough vigilance controlling and regulating the financial markets' bigger players? From where I stand that clip looks disingenuous in the extreme.

Fess up when you F up.

Joe

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by svxistentialist

In relation to your video though I have to say one thing; your sub prime crisis started, gained momentum and got to critical mass on the Republican government's watch.

Fess up when you F up.

Joe

I don't totally disagree with your statement, BUT if you check you historical political facts you will find that the subprime initiative (read putting low income families in housing with creative financing) was kicked off under the Clinton (Democrat) administration.

BY the VIDEO you can see that fairly early on the Republicans identified BIG problems with the concept and the oversight. Legislation to rein in the culprits was blocked by the Demos. Listen again to Barney Franks words.

Just keeping the record straight.

Lee

[svxistentialist]

I can see what you mean and I don't doubt your facts. All the same we are talking here about a financial problem that got out of kilter over two Bush Presidential terms.

That's 8 years Lee. 8 years. If they truly believed that it was a major problem they had long enough to come up with a strategy or a mechanism to reign it in.

This is just how I see it and we have the same type of problem here in Ireland with the Financial Regulator not having a clue about what was actually going on behind the scenes in large investment banks.

Audit transparency my ass. The whole system is fuelled by greed and pyramid schemes.

Joe

[oregondave]

yeah it's all because we tried to help poor people become homeowners...right...
I save my breath as far as a rebuttal on this because right wing kool aid drinkers will believe whatever sounds "like it makes sense" when limpballs or faux news reports it. There is no point. You have a inate psychological condition which makes you WANT to believe certain things (authoritarianism). It's a bummer that the corporate media plays into these talking points and breeds more ignorance every day, but hey, i've got **** to do.
If any repugs or undecideds ever want to see exactly how much BS we get fed on a daily basis, even by so called "liberal media" networks as NBC, I highly recommend Media Matters for America.

[dcarrb]

I saw an interesting little one-panel editorial cartoon awhile back. It showed two men sitting a table across from one another, a banker and a borrower at a loan closing, with the latter saying (near as I recall), "Sure, if you're willing to loan me more money than I can afford to pay back, I'll take it."

The caption: Find the stupid person in this picture.

dcb

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by svxistentialist

I can see what you mean and I don't doubt your facts. All the same we are talking here about a financial problem that got out of kilter over two Bush Presidential terms.

That's 8 years Lee. 8 years. If they truly believed that it was a major problem they had long enough to come up with a strategy or a mechanism to reign it in.

This is just how I see it and we have the same type of problem here in Ireland with the Financial Regulator not having a clue about what was actually going on behind the scenes in large investment banks.

Audit transparency my ass. The whole system is fuelled by greed and pyramid schemes.

Joe

Joe--I think you need to review how our congress works--particularly the Senate. Under critical legislation situations it can take a 60% majority vote to pass (read legislation blocked). The Democrats used these procedures to keep legislation from being passing to rein in many of these culprits. Just check the records and while you are at it, the money contributions to the Democrats versus Repubs from these agencies.

Again review Barney Franks taped statements and see the problem.

Lee

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Joe--I think you need to review how our congress works--particularly the Senate. Under critical legislation situations it can take a 60% majority vote to pass (read legislation blocked). The Democrats used these procedures to keep legislation from being passing to rein in many of these culprits. Just check the records and while you are at it, the money contributions to the Democrats versus Repubs from these agencies.

Again review Barney Franks taped statements and see the problem.

Lee

I'll look that up Lee

You will notice from my post that I feel the root cause in all this is not political, one side or the other. It is greed.

The legislature needs to have a mechanism to keep watch on these guys, Big Brother if you like. It is now obvious that an unfettered market eventually poisons the system.

The price for bailing them out should be controls put in place. Fool me once, etc

Joe

[RoughSilver92]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

I don't totally disagree with your statement, BUT if you check you historical political facts you will find that the subprime initiative (read putting low income families in housing with creative financing) was kicked off under the Clinton (Democrat) administration.

BY the VIDEO you can see that fairly early on the Republicans identified BIG problems with the concept and the oversight. Legislation to rein in the culprits was blocked by the Demos. Listen again to Barney Franks words.

Just keeping the record straight.

Lee

Keeping the record straight, the community reinvestment act was started by Carter in 1977. Clinton made some changes during his time in office, So did H.W. Bush. Did the CRA put us where we are today? NO!
Investigations into the matter have shown that loans that were properly underwritten and managed were subject to no higher risk of default.
Also, half the sub-prime loans were made by banks NOT SUBJECT TO FEDERAL SUPERVISION. What caused the housing market crash? Lender greed! The FED leaving interest rates at 1% for a year (look up the FED, and look up the Central Bank of America and Andrew Jackson. Some of the same families own the FED).
Don't believe every youtube video you see. If anybody thinks any one thing caused the problems of today, realize this mess is so large and so multi-leveled that an accurate analysis would probably fill more than 1300 pages (the size of the stimulus package). I know I can't break it all down for you, and I doubt any 1 person could. Just remember, we've been here before, it will get better! (Or a giant meteor will destroy us in 2012)

[lhopp77]

I don't deny that both parties and several presidents were involved even though cheap loans for normally unqualified buyers was primarily a Democrat initiative and program. AND there WERE definitely many fraudulent loans on the part of both lenders and borrowers.

BUT WHAT I AM POINTING OUT and support it with the ACTUAL words from their mouths are the failure of the DEMOCRATS to permit controlling the powers of the FMs which would have stopped much of the problem.

You can't believe many youtube items, BUT again---LISTEN TO THE WORDS DIRECTLY FROM THEIR MOUTHS.

Do you suspect that the youtube item is overdubbed and fraudulent.

Lee

Originally Posted by RoughSilver92

Keeping the record straight, the community reinvestment act was started by Carter in 1977. Clinton made some changes during his time in office, So did H.W. Bush. Did the CRA put us where we are today? NO!
Investigations into the matter have shown that loans that were properly underwritten and managed were subject to no higher risk of default.
Also, half the sub-prime loans were made by banks NOT SUBJECT TO FEDERAL SUPERVISION. What caused the housing market crash? Lender greed! The FED leaving interest rates at 1% for a year (look up the FED, and look up the Central Bank of America and Andrew Jackson. Some of the same families own the FED).
Don't believe every youtube video you see. If anybody thinks any one thing caused the problems of today, realize this mess is so large and so multi-leveled that an accurate analysis would probably fill more than 1300 pages (the size of the stimulus package). I know I can't break it all down for you, and I doubt any 1 person could. Just remember, we've been here before, it will get better! (Or a giant meteor will destroy us in 2012)