O/T :Feeling let down by humanity
 

I have just changed my tag line from DisMember.

Black jokes are OK while the world is high, but with two small girls abducted and murdered, levity does not even qualify as whistling in the dark.

Condolences to all you parents in the UK feeling the pain of this. And to the rest of you and us who feel the pain referred or empathised or osmosis, however it gets to you.

We have wonderful tools and technology and dreams, but I fear our base instincts and low-tech hearts may not be able to keep pace.

Joe

We too, in the USA, have suffered a senseless rash of inexplicable abductions. Is it something to do with increased worship of "things" & self-gratification, & less respect for intelligence & decency?
I could go on..... I'm only sorry that my sadness & inner rage against these horrible acts cannot help the families devastated by them. Somehow "condolences" just doesn't do it for me.

Ron.

It is not entirely "a joke" when I say I blame McDonalds and the "Bic Click." These examples have taught us instant gratification and disposability. These basic tenets have reverberated throughout our society. Unfortunately, it has reverberated so deeply, that people consider human life to be just as disposable as all of those disposable things that are created to make our lives "convenient." Society needs an opthomologist, because we have developed a terminal "I" problem that blurs our vision, makes us short sighted and gives us a dim view of reality. We have been taught that WE are not responsible for our own actions. It was our environment, our parents, our neighborhoods . . . anyting but our own wrong choices. We as parents and responsible members of society can but only supply the right tools for our children and show them how to use them correctly. Eventually, it becomes their choice as to whether to use those tools to be constructive or destructive. A hammer can be used to build a habitat home, or it can be used to smash a jewelry store window -- the choice is ultimately theirs.

I'm sorry to run on. Joe, you've obviously hit a note that is close to my heart. There *is* good in society. It's just getting harder and harder to find. I get so tired of hearing "you can't legislate morality." Granted. But by doing absolutely nothing, in the name of "correctness" and "tolerance" we are allowing amorality to take precedence.

Again, sorry for editorializing. I know there are many who may disagree, but, to me, sitting down, together, every night, as a family at the dinner table is important to me. It's where many problems are worked out. Being involved with your children in their good times and bad, is important. The family UNIT is important, not just from a Moral standpoint, but, from a societal standpoint, and until that is returned to a point of prominence, over greed, over careers and over "self" we'll continue to see a downward spiral in the way humans treat humanity.

Randy, I think you said it all.

These things are becoming too common. Even on my little island, this year the serious crime rate has risen by more than 20%, and serious road accidents by more than 40%.

Up to 5 years ago, we could leave our doors unlocked, but no more. It seems to be, as you say, a quest for instant gratification.



Andy

Stranger
 

in a strange land.

I agree with Ron 'n Randy, there is a bug or a worm there. However, in our quest for a just society, we empower the malcontents. It is not just a story of instant gratisfaction, these people use the failsafes in our justice system against us.

Am not a fan of the death penalty, I do not believe it is much of a deterrent, and if it is applied to even one wrong verdict, that's one too many.

However, these crimes of random evil, because they are random and opportunistic, are actually crimes against society, not just against the poor victims and their loved ones.

Because all of our children are potential victims, then all of us are demeaned and betrayed by things like this. And our justice system in trying to retrain, rehabilitate, be humane, denies us vengeance or what we might consider suitable retribution.

We frown on some Muslim jurisdictions cutting hands off thieves, yet our own Christian based and humane legal and police system is not geared to take account of the fact that those who would prey on us do not play by these rules. Surely there is a compromise "Rough Justice" without going back to the heads on poles era of a couple of centuries ago?

Joe

Joe:
I'm afraid that more often than not, the people who
commit these kinds of crimes are so depraved that
human life (including their own) means little or nothing
to them and in my view, the worst punishment
imaginable is simply not sufficient.
Dan

I don't really want to get off on a major O/T at our vehicular worship site. BUT.... since we're here....I have a question.

What if we had an electrical device that fit snug on the head, I'd presume, & for anyone convicted of a heinous crime, the device would be plugged into a common electrical socket, & after the smoke cleared, the perpetrator of said crime would be rendered "normal"?

I mean he/she'd have no recollection of past crimes, would cringe just as we do when presented with the gory details of said crimes; & would now simply desire to find a nice civil servantish job, marry, have kids & settle in behind a white picket fence.

Would we allow such a thing? We allow certain individuals to "do time", after which of course they're 100% rehabed, & now become free to become solid citizens behind those picket fences.

We say we're against "vengeance", as if vengeance is somehow "cruel & unusual" in & of itself. I disagree. If we could truly change animals into caring human beings with a brain-zap, it wouldn't satisfy the vengeance quotient we all have secretly imbedded in our psyche.
I think a life behind bars is far more vengeful than the now gentle
medically administered "g'night" we bestow upon our most talented scum. I do tend to lean toward the "eye for an eye" aspect of retribution, but I claim to be "civilized" (biting lip) therefore cave in to psychobabble to avoid confrontation with those of a more liberal bent. Hell - one 'o them liberals might just be a crazed ax murderer!
Gotta protect myself!

Ron.

My View
 

Bring back hanging. It was stopped because a few mistakes were made. But now with DNA profilling can prove and pinpoint the exact assailant, then it is time to bring it back.
As for society in general, I think National Service would bring back a lot of the old fashioned values that have been forgotten. `Respect for others`. It would save this country a lot in unemployment and give some of these tear-aways some moral values. Its also a very good start in life. My 2 pence worth.
Rich

Re: My View
 

Rich,
Here's a little bit of US trivia. The last public hanging in the United States, was held in . . . . . Owensboro, KY. :eek:

(See location to the left :))

Randy,

Stop hanging your thing in public, will you? :eek: :p :D ;)

VK

No hanging about
 

Am against hanging for the reasons stated above. DNA is a good, really good tool, but it is statistical rather than infallible.

Ron says we are against vengeance. I'm not.

Starting with the victim's family and out into society, we need vengeance and retribution.

Nowadays in this forked tongue PC world, we call it "closure"

If we exclude the death penalty, the next most severe penalty is life without parole.

I reckon this could be made more severe if we wanted to. In the case of people convicted of crimes aginst humanity[to be defined] and antisocial behaviour like pederast murderers and serial killers, we could order a full lobotomy as well.

It would still cost the state the same as keeping the perpetrator under max security for life. In fact, it would cost less, as security would not need to be so rigid.

Also, it would wreak some vengeance on the family of the evil one, they would lose contact with the killer, just as the victim families lost their loved ones. Society would be safer, if motivation was removed.

And don't tell me it would not be considered as a deterrent!!

Joe
PS I know it is not reversible, I am presuming the cases are totally proven, it would only be used against the worst scum.