PHENOLIC SPACERS......by Outlaw Engineering
 

Do any of you remember a few months ago when I posted a thread about my new (2 months old at that time) phenolic spacers by Outlaw Engineering...??? Well...I decided to have the mechanic put them on when reassembling my engine during head gasket job done in late August 2005. Two months after getting my SVX back..I started to get a sudden erratic idle when pulling into my garage! I looked the engine over...finding that the top gasket on the phenolic spacers had cracked (as if intake manifold bolts were over-tightened) creating unwanted airways in a couple spots ..which was allowing air to enter that was not "counted" by the MAF sensor! Hence, the erratic idle!

I contacted the mechanic, who proceeded to claim no responsibility whatsoever...even though he admitted his helper had assembled that part! At the time, I really felt bad about that...feeling that the most likely explanation was overtightening of the intake manifold bolts. Outlaw somewhat readily offered to send a new set of spacers (with attached top and bottom gaskets as the other spacers had had) although they stated they (Sean) had never heard of such a failure with their product! [I kept the engine running properly by sealing the gasket-crack leaks with black RTV.]

I installed the new spacers about one month later with no apparent problem...except I had to drain the AC refrigerant in order to get the driver's from intake manifold bolt off!

Today, I notice that the passenger side TOP gasket is now cracked AGAIN!..and leaking through a 1/16 inch crack ....WITH THE GASKET SLIDING LATERALLY ON THE PHENOLIC SPACER! I torqued the bolts as per factory manual...I think about 20 ft-lbs. [which Sean verified earlier as the correct spec.]!

HELP! :confused: I will contact Outlaw again, but don't expect a confession...or explanation soon....

THANKS for any HELP you can give! :D

P.S. Please switch this to the MOD forum, if that's where it belongs...sorry!

Hmmm, did you check if your manifold has at its bottom some sort of "blade" -ish piece of metal causing the spacer to cut in two? any pics would be most helpful...

Nikfu had posted about a similiar problem about a month or so ago... Search for his post, I forget his outcome.

He hadn't an issue with the spacers cutting at a certain point as I remember, just that the spacer is slipping from its position....

Outcome was I needed to tighten the bolts down a bit more.

My spacers are not cracking. I'll have to take a closer look to know for sure but from what I looked at 10 minutes ago they seem to be fine.

Interestingly enough I think I'm due for a headgasket replacement as I've got steam coming from my oil filler.

Phenolic Spacers.
 

I never did like the idea of these on the SVX, but thats just me. I think the spacers are too thick to have gaskets on them. The Phenolic material is too soft to support the gaskets, so when the manifold is torqued down to specs. the gasket is squeezed out. I think it would be better to fit the spacers without the gaskets, just a smear of a non slippery sealant on each side of the spacer.

Harvey.;)

Harvey, the Outlaw Phenolic spacers are rigid, hard, non-flexable plastic.:)

Oh my mistake.:p not having seen them.:)

Then just leave the gaskets out. The standard gaskets don't have the same problem, so maybe the extra thickness of the two gaskets allow the manifold to move,to squeeze the gasket out.

I have though before, that the manifold does form a support brace between the very heavy cylinder heads, as the manifold bolts often become loose, so something must be moving. What do you reckon Tom?

Harvey.

Fixzor.

I agree with what Harvey said though. Mine were not torqued quite to spec, or they loosened up, and moved.

James' were torqued to spec, possibly tighter, and they still moved, though possibly due to the cracking.

Due to the fact they even cracked in the first place, I'd venture to say they are infact not hard enough to support the gaskets but for a very precise margin of error and if you miss this margin you are out of luck.

I don't see the opint of using adhesive when the bolts should be holding them in place.

The whole mess of glue and green goop seems counter-productive.

Yes Nik, there is no need for gaskets and adhesive. The surfaces are smooth enough to not need the gaskets, just a smear of Rolls Royce jointing compound on each side of the Spacer should be all that is needed.

Harvey.;)

WISH I hadn't........
 

Well... Sean @ Outlaw told me He'd never heard of this problem...That the adhesive was just to hold the gasket in place (whatever that means?)...and that he'd let me know what he found...

He never got back to me after sending the damaged spacers to him in Dec 2005.....AND he hasn't got back NOW!

I hope he sends spacers without gaskets to me...??? How would using the stock gaskets (2) on a plain phenolic spacer sound?

I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS....any MORE? :confused:

THANKS :D

I spoke with Sean last week, when I ordered another set of five spacers for a new/used engine that I am installing in the Claret.
He gave me the choise of a new adheasive backed gasket with the spacers, or no gaskets with a $10.00 discount.
I chose the new gaskets, as I am on a budget, and the Subaru gaskets are a good bit more money.
My first set, using Subaru gaskets has been great.
I do not expect a problem, but with s/c boost trying to push the gaskets out of place, we will see soon enough.
More later, Tom.:)

I just got the new style phenolic spacers out of my mailbox today, so pictures are in my locker.http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/use...svxfiles|33827:)
The engine to stack spacers came with the gaskets adheared, as did the throttle body spacer.
The stack to manifold spacers came with the green gaskets loose, not attached.
And there seems to be no glue on them at all.
I am deciding whether to get the manifold ceramic coated this weekend, and if I do it will be two weeks or so till the engine goes in.
More later, Tom.

No Adhesive!.......???
 

Seems like Sean might have modified their approach after my problem with the intake spacer gaskets breaking ...and sliding! [if I understand you correctly..?]

He hasn't answered my email yet....I'll re-email him soon. It seems like the idea of using 2 stock gaskets without adhesive makes the most sense. I also wonder if the gaskets they provide are too soft...helping them to crack? [They look so different from the stock gasket material!]

THANKS! :D

The engine to stack spacers and the throttle body spacer, have gaskets installed, Sean tells me with a new adheasive.
But the manifold to stack spacers have gaskets that are not attached.
I have confidence in the Outlaw Engineering setup, and am going to use their gaskets.

But, if you prefer you can go with Subaru gaskets.
After all Subaru has the most experiance with Subaru.:)