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-   -   Starting lock-out problem (https://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42148)

filbaker 12-03-2007 08:03 AM

Starting lock-out problem
 
Hi there - can any of the sages help me please?

I have a 1992 SVX which starts just fine when it's cold, but...when it has been on a run and I turn off the engine for a few minutes, I have to keep selecting "Park" and "Neutral", with the key turned, before the starter will kick in.

Sometimes I'm lucky and it works after a few seconds, other times it doesn't want to know until (and I'm guessing here) it has cooled sufficiently. This can be a tad embarrassing at a gas station, for example...

Does this sound familiar? I'm hoping that there is a simple adjustment which can be made(!) and I'll appreciate any advice on sorting it out!

Best wishes

Fil

svxistentialist 12-03-2007 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filbaker (Post 512602)
Hi there - can any of the sages help me please?

I have a 1992 SVX which starts just fine when it's cold, but...when it has been on a run and I turn off the engine for a few minutes, I have to keep selecting "Park" and "Neutral", with the key turned, before the starter will kick in.

Sometimes I'm lucky and it works after a few seconds, other times it doesn't want to know until (and I'm guessing here) it has cooled sufficiently. This can be a tad embarrassing at a gas station, for example...

Does this sound familiar? I'm hoping that there is a simple adjustment which can be made(!) and I'll appreciate any advice on sorting it out!

Best wishes

Fil

Fil, by the sound of it this may be an easy fix. It sounds to me like your selector mechanism needs to be adjusted, it could be slightly out of position. A good transmission repair facility would adjust that pretty quickly.

On the rhs of your gearbox is the Range Select Lever. It gets pushed or pulled as you move the selector inside the car. Connected to this on the gearbox is a device called the inhibitor switch. This switch is there to stop you being able to start the car while the gearbox is in gear. It has to be lined up when in neutral quite precisely with the inhibitor switch. Possibly yours has moved with wear and needs to be adjusted. I'd bring it to an auto transmission specialist, but your local Sooby dealer would have the information to adjust it, it's the same as on Legacys and Foresters.

There is another thing that could be part of this problem; there is a solenoid that stops the power getting to the ignition if the inhibitor switch is connected to any of the 4 forward or 2 reverse ranges. If this solenoid is loose, faulty or has a bad earth, then it might cause your ignition to be not energised when you want to start the engine.

You should check if your selector is poorly aligned first. Aside from not starting, this might mean your gears are not fully selected, and could wear your gearbox clutches, and you don't want that to happen.:eek:

Joe:)

And WELCOME!! to the Network, btw:rolleyes::D

Trevor 12-03-2007 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svxistentialist (Post 512615)

There is another thing that could be part of this problem; there is a solenoid that stops the power getting to the ignition if the inhibitor switch is connected to any of the 4 forward or 2 reverse ranges. If this solenoid is loose, faulty or has a bad earth, then it might cause your ignition to be not energised when you want to start the engine.

Joe

Joe,

I am not aware of the existence of such a "solenoid". :confused:

Please provide further exact information, as it would represent another link in the chain involving the ignition switch/starter solenoid, voltage drop problem.

Thanks, Trevor.;)

kwren 12-03-2007 06:50 PM

This was my answer to the starter lock out problem.
 
This information is for Fil in case It might help him.
http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/atta...5&d=1195195468

Trevor 12-04-2007 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor (Post 512684)
Joe,

I am not aware of the existence of such a "solenoid". :confused:

Please provide further exact information, as it would represent another link in the chain involving the ignition switch/starter solenoid, voltage drop problem.

Thanks, Trevor.;)

Joe,

Please reply ASAP to my previous post as you could be withholding an important secret.

In order to pre-empt what can only be the obvious, even though beyond identification. Again I list all possible means of voltage drop which could comprise a fault within the circuitry involved.

Faulty contact within any number of components including connectors.

Faulty wiring resulting in resistance.

A partial short circuit resulting in a load on the circuit.

A faulty starter solenoid drawing excessive current. (An unlikely prospect.)

The unexplained solenoid. :confused:;)

The most likely culprit after the ignition switch is the inhibitor switch. Also in the event that one is included, the security system with starter interrupt relay, If not included, the adaptor connector bypassing the system.

N.B. A simple slave relay as originally detailed many moons ago by Beav, is now claimed as a novel design by a subsequent self acclaimed inventor. What is more, 2500,000 miles of driving rates with a degree by way of a qualification in electrical engineering.

Thanks Joe, Cheers, Trevor. ;)

svxistentialist 12-04-2007 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor (Post 512684)
Joe,

I am not aware of the existence of such a "solenoid". :confused:

Please provide further exact information, as it would represent another link in the chain involving the ignition switch/starter solenoid, voltage drop problem.

Thanks, Trevor.;)

Hi Trevor

It is entirely possible my layman's terminology could confuse the issue here, apologies if so. As mentioned in my reply, I regard the inhibitor switch adjustment as first port of call before ignition electrical testing.

My use of the term solenoid is probably wrong, I was thinking of the starter relay. I can't check to find out about the circuit as my electrical volume is in England, but I have no doubt you chaps can run down the problem for Fil, if it proves to be ignition electrical in nature.

Thanks for the help so far,

Joe;):D

svxistentialist 12-04-2007 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwren (Post 512758)
This information is for Fil in case It might help him.
After weeks of anguish with my SVX start, won't start thing I discovered that there was an irratic lo voltage problem from the ignition switch start terminal. The correct voltage was always there to the ignition sw, but sometimes as little as 8 volts at the terminal to the starter. That is how Trevor knows there even was a low voltage problem. I am the only one here that knows what causes the low voltage, and if anyone cares, please send a personal message and I will tell you.
I personally don't think it is relevant since with my design my car has started hundreds of times since I worked out the solution and always better than it ever started even when it worked at it was designed. (yes, Trevor, I drive over 50,000 miles a year and have for over 50 years so don't try to prove I am lying}.

If anyone doesn't like my idea, this information is not you, and you can "just Get over it" !! I just try to help. (Most of you know who that refers to).

I solved the problem with a design that doesn't adversely affect the operation of any system on my cars. (I had the same problem on both my SVX's and many others here have the same thing or will have it.

http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/atta...5&d=1195195468

Hi Keith

Your circuit looks good to me. The trigger voltage applies battery current direct to the starter circuit once the relay is energised.

I used the same circuit when powering up the 130 watt bulbs I used in my Renault 5GT Turbo. [in that case to keep the heavy current draw from burning the dipswitch, but the same idea:)]

Without Fil running a check to see what voltage applies at the starter, we don't know yet if this is his problem. However this extra relay looks a good cure, if low voltage is the culprit.

Joe:)

filbaker 12-04-2007 10:04 AM

Starting lock-out problem
 
Wow, thanks guys, that is lot of help. I'll work through, starting with the easiest(!) until it sees sense! Much appreciation and (george)best wishes,

Fil :)

svxistentialist 12-04-2007 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filbaker (Post 512972)
Wow, thanks guys, that is lot of help. I'll work through, starting with the easiest(!) until it sees sense! Much appreciation and (george)best wishes,

Fil :)

You are welcome Fil. We're lucky to have a lot of knowledgeable and helpful people on board.

You might start with putting a voltmeter on your starter when it next gives you that problem. It's cheap and easy, and if it shows low voltage then you know what to fix.

Joe:)

kwren 12-04-2007 12:16 PM

What a blessing the network has been to me
 
Working as a team makes SVX life doable. I have benefited enormously from the knowledge others have taken time to share on the form when I didn't know where to begin on a problem!
Thanks to all and good luck Fil with your endeavor!
Take care,
Keith

Trevor 12-04-2007 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svxistentialist (Post 512902)
Hi Trevor

It is entirely possible my layman's terminology could confuse the issue here, apologies if so. As mentioned in my reply, I regard the inhibitor switch adjustment as first port of call before ignition electrical testing.

My use of the term solenoid is probably wrong, I was thinking of the starter relay. I can't check to find out about the circuit as my electrical volume is in England, but I have no doubt you chaps can run down the problem for Fil, if it proves to be ignition electrical in nature.

Thanks for the help so far,

Joe;):D

Thank you Joe,

I agree with you in that the original issue has been confused as a result an unfortunate and rudely worded post raising the starter circuit as being applicable. The inhibitor switch adjustment should be corrected as per your original post so as to prevent the possibility of associated issues.

I had accepted that you could have been referring to a relay, but there is no starter relay as such. However US cars which have cruise control, have this involved in the start circuit in a way which is not clearly disclosed in the manual, and this could well be what you had in mind.

A thread dated 2005, whereby the fitting of a relay was originally proposed and detailed by Beav, but now has been usurped by Keith, includes advice that the relay caused problems with cruise control as well as other unresolved issues. Refer:-

http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25362

svxistentialist 12-04-2007 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor (Post 513034)
Thank you Joe,

I agree with you in that the original issue has been confused as a result an unfortunate and rudely worded post raising the starter circuit as being applicable. The inhibitor switch adjustment should be corrected as per your original post so as to prevent the possibility of associated issues.

I had accepted that you could have been referring to a relay, but there is no starter relay as such. However US cars which have cruise control, have this involved in the start circuit in a way which is not clearly disclosed in the manual, and this could well be what you had in mind.

A thread dated 2005, whereby the fitting of a relay was originally proposed and detailed by Beav, but now has been usurped by Keith, includes advice that the relay caused problems with cruise control as well as other unresolved issues. Refer:-

http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25362

That's a good thread Trevor, thanks. I don't remember reading it at the time, but you know the way it goes; you don't bother reading up on problems that you don't have.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Beav's problem seemed to be the inhibitor switch, so for sure that certainly needs to be carefully aligned to start with.

Joe:)

Trevor 12-04-2007 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svxistentialist (Post 513041)
That's a good thread Trevor, thanks. I don't remember reading it at the time, but you know the way it goes; you don't bother reading up on problems that you don't have.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Beav's problem seemed to be the inhibitor switch, so for sure that certainly needs to be carefully aligned to start with.

Joe:)

It is a good thread because Beav was the originator of an idea. It is sad that his idea has now been incessantly, wrongly and dishonestly claimed by another.

What is more/most important is that Beav, quite correctly, stated the limitations involved. I have been dutifully pointing these out, to the obvious annoyance of the usurper of his idea. Assumed fame at the expense of others, has proven fragile.

kwren 12-04-2007 09:08 PM

You never miss a chance trevor
 
[QUOTE=Trevor;513034]Thank you Joe,

Trevor 12-05-2007 02:55 AM

Sad but True.
 
Keith, what is your problem? I have never said or inferred that a slave relay will not overcome the existing fault in question. You have made not a single statement of fact.

What I have stated with evidence to back this up, is that the fault has not been found and has not been corrected. As a side issue you have claimed that you know the reason for the fault, but strangely are unwilling to openly provide members with the benefit of your expertise. Devious is the applicable word.

When information is posted which I am aware is technically in error and is to the disadvantage of members, I will do my best to correct same. Regardless of the cost in time and effort and in one instance the necessity of becoming a poet in order to circumvent persistent deformation, while at the same time retaining decorum.

I have received many PM’s requesting assistance on a personal basis, but in accordance what is ethical behaviour, would under no circumstance publicise these, for personal gain. In the hope that you would not divulge another's private correspondence, I will regard the text you have posted as a dishonest ploy. The taint of sarcasm clearly discloses the true author. The bold type indicates a tantrum.

I am sincere in my intentions and deal only in facts. Records here prove that I apologise, if and when I am wrong. I do not regard myself as superior, except in respect of yourself as you have clearly disclosed your credentials.

Yes there is a special group of people here and I welcome their direct criticism. If it is that I write proper english for the sake of technical clarity and this deemed a fault, so be it. I hide from no one.

My name is Trevor Ralph Sheffield. My address is, 16a Seaside Avenue Waterview, Auckland, New Zealand. Phone 09 820 8553. E-mail trevshef@xtra.co.nz

When a member forges a quotation, as a means of emphasising slander, as has done in the post under reply, it is time for moderators to take notice.

Sincerely, Trevor.


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