Some recent issues...
 

Sorry this is soooo long, I have been thinking a lot about this and I know others have too, so it might be worthwhile...

Let me start by saying I am writing this as objectively as I can. A lot of this may not be my opinion as a member of this family for 3 years, but I'm kind of in a transition period in my life and am trying to look at things from different perspectives. So some of this is hard for me to write, some of it may even be promoting ideas that would disrupt an atmosphere here that I have grown to love. I therefore post the following, reluctantly, but in good conscience...

There's been a lot of talk about off topic posts. Especially when a new member joined and posted nothing but stories that had no mention of the SVX. It was more complicated than that because the first couple of stories were extremely offensive, and the rest that weren't deleted were still on the edge. But let's take a step back and think about the situation in a slightly different light. Let's assume a new member came out of nowhere and posted some car stories that had no mention of the SVX, were written poorly, and no one here really enjoyed. But, they contained nothing even close to offensive or against any of the Terms of Service one agrees to when becoming a new member. What then?

Technically in that situation the member would be posting within our current guidelines by not posting anything offensive. But it would certainly be against the belief held by many of us that most posts should be related to the SVX, especially when someone first joins to get to know the group. Not to mention there are several self professed "grammar nazis" here that admit they prefer to read posts in near perfect English. But what I'm getting at is there is nothing in our Terms of Service that says a post has to relate to the SVX or be written perfectly.

So should we amend our Terms of Service to reflect this criteria? Most members here, old and new, post within these unwritten "guidelines" and no one has a problem with them. But there have been quite a few... situations... in the last year or so. And there will only be more in the future as the demographic of SVX owners continues to evolve.

Let's face it, the majority of our "prominent" members here could be described as: white male, over 40, conservative. And a lot of us that don't fit that demographic fit at least part of it, or get along very well with those that do. Especially those that have been here a very long time. For instance, there's a couple long time members here that are younger than 25, and probably not very conservative when it comes to religion and politics. But they have been part of this family for a long time, from back when it was primarily "all about the SVX", and made solid relationships before any differences in non-SVX areas of their lives came to light. They are also mature enough to discuss any differences in a constructive way and remain friends with all involved. But we have to face it that there is a new group coming in more and more, and they are not going to think like us. They are going to pick up that 92 SVX for $3000 instead of the Civic, because the SVX looks cool to them. Then they are going to "rice" the heck out of it. It's a tragedy, but in the end, no matter how special I believe the SVX to be, it is still a circa 1990's Japanese car. It's not a '57 Chevy or '65 Mustang. It is not a Corvette. In the end it will not be a "gentleman's collector car" as those are. Sure, in the hearts of some of us it will be. Earl, Larry, and Randy will probably keep their collections until they die. Others will keep their one SVX pristine likewise. Heck, maybe in another 40 years one in mint stock condition may be worth a little something. But you'll never see a group of them in big parade driven by a bunch of older men. They'll never be accepted at a true restricted classic car show. It's an import and after 10 years imports are considered either beaters or something for the kids with less money to rice up. Yeah, I don't agree with this philosophy, but I think this is the dominent philosophy in America. It really pains me to say this about the SVX especially, considering what it is, but like I said I'm just trying to be objective. If you want my opinion, there still isn't much on the road as good as the SVX for an overall package, and I plan to keep mine as long as possible.

So what was I saying? Oh yeah... the demographic of membership here is slowly going to shift, and we are going to be forced out of our comfort zone a little. So far, for the most part the newer members figure out how things work here. That is, for the most part they work exactly how our more prominent older generation wants them to. Again, this really has nothing at all to do with age, it is just about how people act and think.

Here's some examples, see how you react to these. Remember, in "real life" I'm actually along the lines of the more conservative folks. I'm just trying to play devil's advocate to get some objective thinking going....

A new member joins, never introduces themself, but just starts posting random, non SVX things that are not offensive. Do you start to post replies, asking why they are doing this; do you post more aggressive replies; do you simply ignore any post started by them; ignore the member entirely; or push to get them banned? Please don't think back to the "Blue" situation, it is based on that but that guy WAS offensive. This is theoretical.

At some point, maybe in a post asking for good thoughts for some situation, a member posts something like, "I will pray to satan for you". What would you do? Yeah, I know it is far fetched and has never happened, but I guess it could. There have been situations where someone has said religion should be illegal and the like, but I didn't use those situations because it could be argued the intent of those may be against the TOS. But if someone honestly worships the devil as their religion and is bold enough to state it, would they not have the same rights as the rest of us that so often have posted "you're in my prayers" or "I'm a Christian". I don't know, that is tricky, I know I would have a hard time dealing with that one.

A new member joins and posts pictures of their SVX they have modified extensively. They are pretty proud of it and have spent a lot of time and money on making it just what they have dreamed of. But the car is ugly as sin. How do you reply to that post? Some of us would be downright crass and rude. Some would post their opinion, trying to sound diplomatic, but still letting it be known they did not approve of it being done to an SVX. Put yourself in the owner's shoes. He made a car HE thought was cool. Do you gain anything by cutting him down? Does the good name of the SVX gain anything by you telling him that the SVX was perfect in stock form and he's committed sacrilege? The answer is NO, the damage has already been done. That is one less stock SVX on the road that might make yours more valuable some day and that is one more SVX owner that thinks the organized SVX world is a bunch of old snobs. My mother (and I think almost everyone's mother) used to say, "If you can't say anything nice..." you know the rest. If the guy never asked for an opinion, don't give one unless you really dig his ride. If he does ask for opinions and you don't like it, just say something like, "It's not my cup of tea, but those wheels are pretty nice," or maybe just don't post at all.

Last example: someone writes a post more than 3 sentences long. Do you read it? :D

Thank you to anyone that has read all of this, these are just some of the things I've been thinking about over the last couple months since I think of these forums as an important part of my life. It feels good to finally get some of it out in the open, and hopefully there will be some good constructive discussion around it. I hope that no one takes offense to any of this or feels they are being targetted, these are my thoughts and observations on the forums as a whole, there is no one person that stands out in any of this. I also hope that the many of you I consider friends that have known me a long time are not put off by this, I would hope you know me and know where I'm coming from with this. I have just tried to put myself in some other shoes to look at everything from outside my comfort zone.

Thank you for your time.

Site
 

Hi everyone, I think we all call this my SVX site, but it really is everyones site. It is always changing. What makes it change is the changing membership. So it is what we make it. If we get more younger members, we will see more "modding" topics. If we get more old guys, maybe we will see more traditional posts. I find them all of interest. I always think leading by example is the preferred way. If you don't see any way off in left field posts maybe there is a reason. Also please reread your post. If for no other reason than to correct your spelling. Also if it sounds a little strong maybe you should tone it down, or not post it at all. Remember the site is only as good as the membership makes it. And last, it is a SVX site afterall. Take care everyone, BOBB

wiser minds than mine have taught me to “take what you like and leave the rest”. while i have no need or desire to try to shape this board in my particular image, there’s clearly room for more that what interests me. i will probably not give energy to the posts or forums that don’t much interest me but will continue to seek out the wisdom, expression and interchange that i find kinship with. thx for a most thoughtful and reasoned post, Troy.

Re: Some recent issues...
 

Ummm..usually not, but I DID actually read this one!:) ..mostly because I had some strong opinions about the latest "blue" posts. I was kind of hesitant to say anything at first, it's been so long since I've been posting here that I wasn't sure about the accepted environment.

HOWEVER...that didn't last long, because whether I'm here or not - I still consider it MY site.
I am one of the "oldtimers" you spoke of, and take no offense at that...:rolleyes:

You have some excellent questions/points here. My personal opinion is:

This is an SVX site first.

It's also a "family" of widely varied indidviduals who get way off topic a lot, myself included.

Can we stop people from posting the things you gave as examples? Well.......I think it should go something like this:

It's not too hard to spot a troll, after a short time it's pretty obvious that their purpose is to stir things up, cause trouble, and little else.
We also have a right to voice our opinion - publicly - of anything posted here.
Is this mob rule? Maybe, but it's our mob.

I'll put it this way - you come to a site such as this and start posting things that have nothing to do with the site and piss most of the members off.....why do you continue? And why should you be allowed the forum?
*shrugs*
Listen I'm just very anti-PC...I love this site and what is provides me and others who own/like SVX's. Is that discriminatory? Maybe but I'm not apologizing for it....

Lot of good points to think about though....

Lots of good thoughts, Jerry. Thanks for reading all I wrote and responding with how you really feel. I'm definitley not out to change anything, just was kind of venting some frustrations and what I felt was some one-sidedness lately that actually drove me away from the site for a while (before the most recent Troll came around too).

And for the record, I can appreciate where you are coming from, in the "real world" I am pretty anti-PC as well. :)

I can't believe I quoted the whole thing!
 

Thoughts
 

You provided much food for thought and raised questions that I am sure many of the members here have had over time. As I have said in other threads, I am a rabid SVX owner and by your definition "an old conservative owner" that likes the car as is was designed with some discreet mods to improve performance and/or appearanc. But.......I do not severly criticize younger members that do "ricey" mods. I think it is totally inappropriate to insult these young member even though we do not agree. (refer to member comments, including mine to the original post and pictures by--Yon) I also believe, as I have said in other posts, that critical comments or criticism are acceptable forms of communication in our society. I DO NOT agree with personal insults as I have seen on here by even long term members.

Lee

Hey Troy,

That sure was a long post!:)

Good points you are pondering, and some of them would need to be addressed, have a policy, strategy, whatever.

In simple terms, this is a club. A rather large one, but a club. The club can make and amend Rules of Engagement. It would be difficult to phrase the rules to suit any possible situation, so it is not necessary or correct to try and do so.

Instead, as a club we need only reserve the right of admission, and the right to post. We can do this, because it is our club, our Network. We have rules which we publish for new members, we require them to post and behave within this non-restrictive framework. If this is not acceptable to them, we will withdraw their posts or ban the new members, whichever is appropriate.

Please excuse my bringing religion into an administration discussion, but it is appropriate, and I mean no offense to others of different or of no beliefs. Today's gospel by John states,

"I give you one rule only, that you love one another"

Apply this philosophy to posting on the network, and it merely suggests that no post or comment should be made that is disrespectful of another member, their views, philosophies, opinions, colour, age, whatever.

I am one of the oldies here, but I like new members of any age or background, and welcome their contribution. They may swing the balance or ethos of the Network a little, but that's life, I accept it. We can cobble up a more rigid outline of what's acceptable in posts, but I am against that. We need the views and energy of younger members.

What we have here is very good, and it may need fine tuning, but does not require a radical overhaul.

My two cents.

Joe:)

PS, must be O/T, I never mentioned the SVX:D

Your Post
 

ey Troy,

That sure was a long post!

Good points you are pondering, and some of them would need to be addressed, have a policy, strategy, whatever.

In simple terms, this is a club. A rather large one, but a club. The club can make and amend Rules of Engagement. It would be difficult to phrase the rules to suit any possible situation, so it is not necessary or correct to try and do so.

Instead, as a club we need only reserve the right of admission, and the right to post. We can do this, because it is our club, our Network. We have rules which we publish for new members, we require them to post and behave within this non-restrictive framework. If this is not acceptable to them, we will withdraw their posts or ban the new members, whichever is appropriate.

Please excuse my bringing religion into an administration discussion, but it is appropriate, and I mean no offense to others of different or of no beliefs. Today's gospel by John states,

"I give you one rule only, that you love one another"

Apply this philosophy to posting on the network, and it merely suggests that no post or comment should be made that is disrespectful of another member, their views, philosophies, opinions, colour, age, whatever.

I am one of the oldies here, but I like new members of any age or background, and welcome their contribution. They may swing the balance or ethos of the Network a little, but that's life, I accept it. We can cobble up a more rigid outline of what's acceptable in posts, but I am against that. We need the views and energy of younger members.

What we have here is very good, and it may need fine tuning, but does not require a radical overhaul.

My two cents.

Joe

PS, must be O/T, I never mentioned the SVX

Hey Joe, HERE, HERE. Take care, BOBB

Yes you did! ;)

Yes, Love one another - yes, and respect each other as well. I guess one way of looking at this is to treat someone the way you would like to be treated. The only problem with that is that some don't care how they are treated. :rolleyes:

Thank you padre Earl.

Hey Jerry

Nowhere in that post before the PostScript is the entity SVX mentioned.:D

Unless you count my signature/handle:rolleyes:

Joe:)

OK, now you're being PICKY! :mad:

that was a bit to think about.
 

Speaking for the sub 40 (26), centralist, white (but raised in a interacial family and an orphanage), fairly new member point of view....

I came to this site due to my interest in the SVX but quickly learned that the site is much more than a site about a car. It's a gathering of people who for may the only common link is the car. I have MANY varied interests but I find myself coming here more than other forums simply because the company is generaly good. I think that most of us choose to be tolerant of other people weather we agree with their views or not, its basic psychological resiprocity. occasionally I have disagreed with someone to the point of actually replying with a degree of anger, I'm honestly not sure I'm sorry for it, just that it may have offended someone else. generally though if I don't like something I just move on because like what you said whats gained by trashing somone.

I personally like the board as is. I think the moderators will moderate when needed and the "riff-raff" will leave as soon as they realize ther just isn't anything here for them.

I think everyone needs to choose not to be egocentric, and know that there view is certainly not the only one. One must understand that since all we do here is read or write (type) it makes it very easy to "read into" something you or someone else wrote. And also as sad as it is the internet is like alcohol it turns peoples alias's into 6'5" 300lb ninjas with no ihibition who will take advantage of the fact that they never actully have to look you in the eye when they make there comments. The best practice I think when you read soemthing you don't loke is to hit the back button and check the next thread. I won't say i always make that choice myself though.


to adress a few of the original comments that started this thread.

or maybe they'll see the SVX as a more unique car that is truly worth there time to work on. Everytime I see the word "rice" i cringe because "rice" is a word used to describe any modification done that the person using the word doesn't like. (I also think it is border line a racial slur but I'll leave that alone). The SVX is a beutiful car sock but there are many people have IMO very fine examples of modified cars, INCLUDING Earl (who jealousy of has driven me close to hate).


People that feel that way need to check there priorites. Maybe I'm not as big a fan as I thought I was...but who gets to decide what "ugly as sin " is, the moderators, the President (owns a modded svx by the way)...and at what point does it become sacralilege, cup holder, head unit, wheels, lowered, cf hood, headlights, 5 speed....who gets to decide that?

As far as OT posts, does it really bother people to talk about things other than the SVX? I hope not because its all been discussed at least once just ask the search "police". And what is the required post count before it is acceptable to post OT things. Granted there is a level of etiquette(sp?) that we should attempt to adhere to but again who decides what that is?

I'm not trying to argue about this just offer up my point of views on this, changing the rules will do nothing but give a moderator more things to type up as there will never be a standard everyone will agree upon, as i want "my SVX site" to run a certain way and it probably won't be the same as everyone else reading this. I think the moderators will do a good job of keeping the course true (them or uncle mitch) the rest of us must simply agree to disagree sometimes (so cliche but so true) and if doing that puts me out of my said "comfort zone" then I guess then perhaps I move on...I'll always have my car.


Shane

again the Shane figure of merit dictates that the more I type the more mistakes I will make. I'd apologize but its mathematical law.