The Subaru SVX World Network

The Subaru SVX World Network (https://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/index.php)
-   ECU Tune Projects (https://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=37)
-   -   Engine Build Progress and Questions (https://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39105)

TomsSVX 05-25-2007 11:11 PM

Engine Build Progress and Questions
 
This is for anyone who needs questions answered or just wants to show us their progress on their builds... Good luck guys and lets get these motors runnin

Tom

cdigerlando 05-30-2007 09:17 AM

Building the Perfect Engine.
 
Tom:

Great that you started this thread. I requested a subforum for this subject, so perhaps one of the moderators can move this up.

I am very interested in getting the type of bearings that you purchased. It sounded like you were combining bearings from two kits. I also know that you are doing engine builds for some other folks, so if you want to go in on splitting a kit let me know.

I'm still going to work on the copper head gaskets for the build. Have not heard crap from Mr. Gasket. Anyone else who is interested in gaskets let me know. I would kind of like to wait on the final order for gaskets since different folks may need slightly thicker gaskets from stock to make up for any milling required depending on the condition of each individual motor.

Done some investigating on ARP head bolts. 8 of our 16 head bolts are identical part numbers to the 4 cylinder engines, for which there are kits (12 in a 4 cyl kit). The other 8 are completely custom to the SVX engine. I may take some measurements and see if ARP will put together a kit for our car. Anyone who is interested let me know.

On the motor machine work front, I may go ahead and just plan on sleaving the motor with dalton ductile iron sleaves. If I can talk the shop into it I would at least like to get the deck semi closed. They were not thrilled with doing a fully closed deck. Mike thinks it would be too difficult as well.

Lets start posting and getting this stuff together.

See ya

TomsSVX 05-30-2007 09:22 AM

finally io have a day shift off... Calling the machine shop NOW!!!

Chuck, I am using the bearings off an ej22t motor... Need 2 sets of main bearings and 2 sets of rod bearings... Since I am doing 2 builds, I ordered 4 sets of main bearings and 3 sets of rod bearings... Mike has the part #'s just make sure you buy tri-metal bearings and not aluminum

Tom

solarsvx 05-30-2007 09:26 AM

hey chuck whene are you going to bring the svx on the weds night meets?




QUOTE=cdigerlando]Tom:

Great that you started this thread. I requested a subforum for this subject, so perhaps one of the moderators can move this up.

I am very interested in getting the type of bearings that you purchased. It sounded like you were combining bearings from two kits. I also know that you are doing engine builds for some other folks, so if you want to go in on splitting a kit let me know.

I'm still going to work on the copper head gaskets for the build. Have not heard crap from Mr. Gasket. Anyone else who is interested in gaskets let me know. I would kind of like to wait on the final order for gaskets since different folks may need slightly thicker gaskets from stock to make up for any milling required depending on the condition of each individual motor.

Done some investigating on ARP head bolts. 8 of our 16 head bolts are identical part numbers to the 4 cylinder engines, for which there are kits (12 in a 4 cyl kit). The other 8 are completely custom to the SVX engine. I may take some measurements and see if ARP will put together a kit for our car. Anyone who is interested let me know.

On the motor machine work front, I may go ahead and just plan on sleaving the motor with dalton ductile iron sleaves. If I can talk the shop into it I would at least like to get the deck semi closed. They were not thrilled with doing a fully closed deck. Mike thinks it would be too difficult as well.

Lets start posting and getting this stuff together.

See ya[/QUOTE]

svxfiles 05-30-2007 09:45 AM

I just ordered the "Rebuild Kit", from Subaru.
Part #10105AA060, and will post pictuers of the gasket kit when it gets here!:)

TomsSVX 05-30-2007 09:50 AM

I know whats in them... I have ordered 2 in the past... I need to order another one:o

BTW machine work is all lined up and I need to find time to drop it off

Tom

Earthworm 05-30-2007 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svxfiles
I just ordered the "Rebuild Kit", from Subaru.
Part #10105AA060, and will post pictuers of the gasket kit when it gets here!:)

I'm installing that set in my engine right now.

Crazy_pilot 05-30-2007 01:44 PM

I think this is going to be my new favorite thread.:D

I want lots of pictures!

TomsSVX 05-30-2007 01:47 PM

im not usually a picture taken while i am in the middle of this kind of stuff... BUT since I am going to take it slow and one step at a time... I may just snap a few

Tom

longassname 05-30-2007 08:08 PM

I second that. I'd love to see an engine build subsection under the mod mania forum and this could be the first thread in it....though the title of the thread should probably change to "omg somebody is building an eg33 and they live in the USA"


Quote:

Originally Posted by cdigerlando
Tom:

Great that you started this thread. I requested a subforum for this subject, so perhaps one of the moderators can move this up.


longassname 05-30-2007 08:28 PM

alternatively it could be called...

"OMG somebody is building an SVX engine and putting it back in an SVX"

SVXRide 05-30-2007 08:52 PM

Tom,
I've got the Clevite bearing numbers for the rod and mains. Did you take a micrometer to your crank first, or did you just order the oversized bearing figuring you'd have the machine shop turn the crank to fit?
-Bill

longassname 05-30-2007 08:53 PM

I'm pretty sure Tom ordered standard bearings.

Bill, do you have your flow bench working?



Quote:

Originally Posted by SVXRide
Tom,
I've got the Clevite bearing numbers for the rod and mains. Did you take a micrometer to your crank first, or did you just order the oversized bearing figuring you'd have the machine shop turn the crank to fit?
-Bill


SVXRide 05-30-2007 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longassname
I'm pretty sure Tom ordered standard bearings.

Bill, do you have your flow bench working?

Michael,

Interesting...can't wait to see what the clearances will be with standard bearings and a probably 100k+ mile crank...

Yes. Looking forward to running my heads on it once I get them back from the shop:cool:

-Bill

longassname 05-30-2007 09:04 PM

Did you run a stock head yet? Want to run one of mine? I can send you one with a different valve seat configuration that is supposed to flow better to test....then you could send it back to me so I can do the exhaust ports and send it back to you to retest.


Quote:

Originally Posted by SVXRide
Michael,

Interesting...can't wait to see what the clearances will be with standard bearings and a probably 100k+ mile crank...

Yes. Looking forward to running my heads on it once I get them back from the shop:cool:

-Bill


SVXRide 05-30-2007 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longassname
Did you run a stock head yet? Want to run one of mine? I can send you one with a different valve seat configuration that is supposed to flow better to test....then you could send it back to me so I can do the exhaust ports and send it back to you to retest.


Michael,
I'd love to, but I won't be able to get to anything other than NASA mission work until after the 13th of this month. I'm already working 14 hour days at work getting this mission study done, so there's not much of me left by the time I get home:o
-Bill

longassname 05-30-2007 09:13 PM

Can you realistically commit to doing it then? I can have it to you then.


Quote:

Originally Posted by SVXRide
Michael,
I'd love to, but I won't be able to get to anything other than NASA mission work until after the 13th of this month. I'm already working 14 hour days at work getting this mission study done, so there's not much of me left by the time I get home:o
-Bill


svxfiles 05-30-2007 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVXRide
Michael,
. I'm already working 14 hour days at work getting this mission study done, so there's not much of me left by the time I get home:o
-Bill

Slacker!:mad:
:eek:



Just Kidding:p

LiquidForce 05-30-2007 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdigerlando

I'm still going to work on the copper head gaskets for the build. Have not heard crap from Mr. Gasket. Anyone else who is interested in gaskets let me know. I would kind of like to wait on the final order for gaskets since different folks may need slightly thicker gaskets from stock to make up for any milling required depending on the condition of each individual motor.


Have you looked into the cometic mls head gaskets? I found some here.

http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.ph...98cd954c401c60

I run a set of stock subaru gaskets and head bolts on my WRX hybrid. I push 30 psi on race gas and have not had any issues. These should be just as good.

dieingSVX 05-31-2007 12:39 AM

good luck chuck, you're going to need it :) if you are still going to work on it tomorrow give me a call and i'll swing by after work.

SVX_MY_BABY 05-31-2007 11:56 AM

Tom You have PM

cdigerlando 05-31-2007 01:30 PM

Meets
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by solarsvx
hey chuck whene are you going to bring the svx on the weds night meets?

Probably a year. Depends on how long it takes to finish the motor. Then there is break in, a new exhaust and downpipe w/external wastegate, not to mention the FMIC and tune.

I may show up with my mildly modified WRX. I'm making 266 WHP 258 WTQ on a mustang dynojet with that car. Its been real reliable too. That is my daily driver.

cdigerlando 05-31-2007 01:35 PM

SVX Build
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by longassname
alternatively it could be called...

"OMG somebody is building an SVX engine and putting it back in an SVX"

Ha Ha. That is too funny:D

cdigerlando 05-31-2007 01:39 PM

Cometic gaskets
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidForce
Have you looked into the cometic mls head gaskets? I found some here.

http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.ph...98cd954c401c60

I run a set of stock subaru gaskets and head bolts on my WRX hybrid. I push 30 psi on race gas and have not had any issues. These should be just as good.

I actually saw these, but I don't know if they actually make them???? They are supposed to be real good though on the 4 cylinders.

cdigerlando 05-31-2007 02:02 PM

Pulling Engine
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dieingSVX
good luck chuck, you're going to need it :) if you are still going to work on it tomorrow give me a call and i'll swing by after work.

Thanks for the hoist and for the offer to help. I'm going to try to do all of the setup work tonight and tomorrow night. I probably won't pull the engine until Saturday morning. I have to do a presentation Friday morning so I don't want to get too greasy. I got the boxes to ship the cams in from Mike yesterday, so I will ship them out on Monday.

Nice Fiero. Good condition. It's going to be sick with the 4 liter northstar engine.

TomsSVX 06-01-2007 01:17 PM

So far I want to make a list of things people will need in order to build or simply rebuild their engines in the future... used motors are thinning out so they are becomming less of an option... this is also and attraction to those of you looking to keep matching #'s


1. Old engine
2. New pistons (OEM or Aftermarket)
3. New set of piston rings... Now these cost a ton from the dealers so I would suggest doing some research on 2.2l rings to see if there are aftermarket matches
4. Piston pins... Your old ones might look good, but not worth it to leave holes in the rebuild
5. Engine seal kit... Contains EVERYTHING for a total overhaul... even new piston pin clips and valve stem seals
6. Find a competant machine shop to hone the cylinders to spec
7. Have a machine shop follow LAN's guide for checking the specs on the crankshaft.
8. Rod bearings- these are the same bearings used in 2.2l's get them in either std sizes or the recomended oversizes. You will need 2 sets or 6 pairs
9. Main Bearings... same deal as the rod bearings. You will need 2 sets
10. Head work- Your valves are probobly still good. But have a shop do a valve job on the heads and clean everything up, not to mention checking for warping in the heads and block
11. Assembly... this is not for a shade tree mechaninc... it is a complex proceedure that requires several specialty tools (some you can make yourself). If you second guess your abilities at ALL... have a professional do it.

There is more and I hope others can copy and paste what is here and add to it

Tom

longassname 06-01-2007 03:30 PM

Do you guys want me to cary rings? If I do will anyone actually buy them? I can stock them for $150 for a set of 6.

Crazy_pilot 06-01-2007 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longassname
Do you guys want me to cary rings? If I do will anyone actually buy them? I can stock them for $150 for a set of 6.

Stock spec rings? I'd be along for that, $150 is MUCH cheaper than OEM, and I'll be needing some soon-ish.

Will the engine build be accompanied by a new engine management software? I'd imagine that with the new cam profiles and compression ratio it would take some tuning to get the best results.

longassname 06-01-2007 04:11 PM

Yes, stock spec rings.

SVXelerator 06-01-2007 10:31 PM

stock spec, but in different oversizes to account for cylinder wall wear?

moly rings?

different material for compression vs oil, or the same material for both?

Perfect Circle?

longassname 06-02-2007 08:11 PM

I was thinking I'd stock really crappy ones................
kidding, duh. It's not worth my trouble to stock rings. I only offered to do it as a favor to the community. There's no reason for me to stock crappy rings.

Hastings rings.

With a "touch hone" (fyi that's the terminology to ask for a light hone with the intention of creating the cross hatch finish without changing the bore size) you should be ok using the standard spec rings. I've done it and the end gap was still in range. That's what you do...check the end gap of the rings to make sure it isn't too large. If you don't wait until you blow your engine the wear should mostly be confined to the rings and your cyllinders will still hone out ok for standard pistons and rings. If it doesn't you have to purchase pistons and matching rings (so there's no reason for me to stock oversized rings).





Quote:

Originally Posted by SVXelerator
stock spec, but in different oversizes to account for cylinder wall wear?

moly rings?

different material for compression vs oil, or the same material for both?

Perfect Circle?


longassname 06-02-2007 08:46 PM

So Bill what do you say? Can you handle flow testing a head with the new valve seat geometry around the middle of the month? It would be good info for both you and me.


Quote:

Originally Posted by SVXRide
Michael,
I'd love to, but I won't be able to get to anything other than NASA mission work until after the 13th of this month. I'm already working 14 hour days at work getting this mission study done, so there's not much of me left by the time I get home:o
-Bill


SVXRide 06-02-2007 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longassname
So Bill what do you say? Can you handle flow testing a head with the new valve seat geometry around the middle of the month? It would be good info for both you and me.


Michael,
I've got to fly out to Arizona later today (Sunday). I'll know better later this week (i.e., whether I'm going to have any breathing room between now and the 20th of the month when the proposal is due at NASA HQ).
-Bill

cdigerlando 06-04-2007 12:55 PM

Crankshaft
 
Any opinions regarding replacement of the crankshaft? I am thinking of doing it just to be safe since it has had 135,000 miles of fatigue. I was also thinking of cryo treating it since there are no forging options for our cranks.

XT6Wagon 06-04-2007 01:29 PM

honestly unless you got a defective crankshaft I would put money on the fact that your crankshaft is a hell of alot stronger than the day it left the factory.

I'd also say its not very likely that you will have strength issues unless you run some insane HP. Subaru blocks are ultra stiff and strong in thier crankshaft support compared to what most people are used to. You also have 6cyls and 3.3L compared to the poor WRX/STi folks who have to jack up the boost, and cylinderpressures to get the same HP as you. Which is usualy hell on the bearings, yet the SVX engine has more bearings and lower stress on each.

One also doubts you would be running 8K rpm like many of the 2.5L people do. Though personaly 7K would be nice. ah hell 8K sounds reall good if the heads/cams being developed will take it.

cdigerlando 06-04-2007 01:53 PM

Crankshaft
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by XT6Wagon
honestly unless you got a defective crankshaft I would put money on the fact that your crankshaft is a hell of alot stronger than the day it left the factory.

I'd also say its not very likely that you will have strength issues unless you run some insane HP. Subaru blocks are ultra stiff and strong in thier crankshaft support compared to what most people are used to. You also have 6cyls and 3.3L compared to the poor WRX/STi folks who have to jack up the boost, and cylinderpressures to get the same HP as you. Which is usualy hell on the bearings, yet the SVX engine has more bearings and lower stress on each.

One also doubts you would be running 8K rpm like many of the 2.5L people do. Though personaly 7K would be nice. ah hell 8K sounds reall good if the heads/cams being developed will take it.

I probably won't be running over 6400 since I am using the level 10 automatic transmission. If the new cam profiles ECUTune has develped, develop power at higher RPMs, I might consider reprogramming the TCU to that point, but only till the HP starts falling off.

So You think the crank is stronger now? Why is that?

There is a lot less bearing stress than there is on a WRX/STi of similar HP.

XT6Wagon 06-04-2007 03:56 PM

the heat cycles can reduce stresses from casting and it can work harden surfaces seeing stress.

Earthworm 06-04-2007 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longassname
Do you guys want me to cary rings? If I do will anyone actually buy them? I can stock them for $150 for a set of 6.

I may also be interested in a set of stock spec rings. I have the heads off my engine (248000kms) and the cross-hatch pattern is still evident on the cylinder walls.

longassname 06-05-2007 10:08 AM

I've mentioned before that I've been hearing a lot of stories of rod bearing failures from customers. (most of my customers are not on the network, though i do refer them to the network, so I get to hear a lot of failure histories on SVX's that aren't told here) While dynoing my stock SVX with low miles absolutely pristine condition engine the engine went out. I haven't taken the short apart yet but I have stripped it to the short and it's looking like it's a rod bearing failure. I was running syntech 10w40 in that engine. This started me thinking that oil clearances might not be big enough to maintain a good oil film with 10w40. Normally the synthetic is a little thinner than conventional oil. Normally oil clearance isn't so small an engine cant take thicker oil. Anyway I decided to talk with the guys at eagle who have a huge amount of experience with rotating assemblies and rotating assemblies in engines being pushed to the limit. We went over the factory specified oil clearances and they aggree that the tight side of the range is REDICULOUSLY too tight and prone to oil film break down.

I'll revise the crank work document to give both the factory spec'd range and my recomended range. I'm also going to offer crank work from an excellent crank shop. If you get the crank work done through me it will be ground to my specified range. For the performance builds the cranks will be reballanced to match our pistons and rods for a ballanced rotating assembly.

Crank service for use with stock rods and Subaru pistons: $250
Crank service for use with Eagle rods and ECUtune pistons: $400

longassname 06-05-2007 10:11 AM

Also,

I'm going to stock some race proven aluminum rod bearings instead of the tri-metal ones that are standard for this engine. There's nothing wrong with tri-metal bearings but the melting point of the friction surface on the aluminum bearing is 3 times as high as on the tri-metal. Considering the evidence so far it makes sense to switch over to aluminum bearings.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:19 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2015 SVX World Network
(208)-906-1122