SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

A while ago, I bought a UK SVX CD changer and head unit from another member here. I used the CD changer to replace the broken JDM one in my 92. It is compatible with the JDM head unit but the connectors on the changer itself are different. Fortunately the seller included the last section of the UK wiring harness, so it all plugged together just fine.

So then I started wondering about what to do with the UK SVX head unit. I started comparing it to the head unit in my '96 Legacy. Both head units were pull-out type units made by Panasonic, and they both had the same cage, with the same contacts at the back. So I reasoned that surely if I just slid the SVX head unit into the Legacy cage it would work. But alas no: The power button lit up but the head unit would not turn on.

So I took the cages out and compared them. I discovered that the cage for the SVX unit had an "always hot" pin that was absent from the Legacy cage. The wire was present in the Legacy harness, but not connected through to the cage. So I took the pin from the SVX radio cage and slid it into the connector on the Legacy cage then joined it to the correct wire in the Legacy harness.

Now I can slide either head unit into the cage, they both work. The SVX unit seems to be a little bit better than the Legacy one. It has a logic-controlled tape deck and a jack at the front where I can plug in an MP3 player or whatever.

I can now say with certainty that the Legacy and SVX head units are interchangable. A Legacy CD changer will work with the SVX head unit and vice versa. Also, a Legacy head unit will slide straight into a UK SVX and control the CD changer. Just in case anybody ever needs to know.

Phil.

Just so you know, this gave me a reason to go digging through the loft tomorrow to find my legacy head unit. I took the sound system from the Svx and put it in my legacy when it became my daily driver, and i've just not had one since. My original SVX cd and stereo I ebayed, so now I have something until I decide what to do with the sound. :D I was thinking about building a computer, but still not sure. I figured that the units could probably swap, and now you've confirmed it. ;)

(assuming you guys have the same connectors that is)

Of course their connectors are different . . . Look where the damn steering wheel is! ;)

If you have problems with the US connectors get a hold of SVXdc and read this thread:

http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6530

Good Luck,
Dan

To clarify: The wiring harness connector are different. But these Panasonic headunits are the old pull-out type (with a swing out handle). They have a cage which fits into the dash and connects to the wiring harness. Then the headunit slides into the cage. The contacts on the back of the headunit engage with contacts at the back of the cage.

What I've discovered is that the cages are identical, except for the harness connector. So the Legacy radio can be slotted into the SVX radio cage (and vice versa if you wire up the extra power pin which is missing on the Legacy radio cage).

a ha :o :D

That's fascinating. That sounds like the old-style "security" feature -- where you remove the whole radio and take it with you. I didn't know that any factory radios did that.

Can you post some pictures?

Is the UK SVX (car's) wiring harness the same as in the US? Like this? [Answer — No]
http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/SVXdc/4829.jpg
(SVX 20-pin radio harness connector)

Does the UK Legacy's harness look like this?
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1...dioplugmr1.jpg
(14 pin radio connector used in most other 1993-up Subarus)

For more information than you ever wanted to know about other Subaru models' radios (at least in North America), see this thread I put together on NASIOC. You'll need to create a free account to view the images.

And here's my SVX Radio Installation Guide.

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

An SVX owner in Sweden e-mailed me asking about differences between his radio and what I describe in my installation document. He said his radio is similar to what's shown in the attached PDF, from a German owner. That radio is the Panasonic model RD25 (sticker on bottom says Model No. 86201PA060, Ref. No. CQ-YF4220A).

Attachment 11792 (214KB)

Translation:That reminded me of these pictures that another owner in the UK had sent me awhile back. That was the first time I had seen the radio in a UK SVX.

Click these thumbnails for larger images. Occasionally, the thumbnails will not show, but each also has an "o" which you can click.

Radio cover door closed (RHD):

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/298...4064kn7.th.jpgo

Door open. AM/FM/Tape, with 3.5mm jack for portable CD player:

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/793...4065aw1.th.jpgo

Raising the handle:

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9...4066tw1.th.jpgo

Begin sliding out the radio:

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/683...4067ay6.th.jpgo

Anti-theft feature — take it with you :)

Same pictures as attachments (in case ImageShack gets balky):

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

Radio docks into an "inner cage" which is mounted in an "outer cage" (similar to cage used in US/JDM):

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/4...4068lf6.th.jpgo

Rear of radio. Connections via two 20-pin connectors:

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/2...4069kd9.th.jpgo

Another view of rear of radio:

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6...4070wf9.th.jpgo

Another view inside inner cage:

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/745...4072hy6.th.jpgo

Left-hand connector. Pins for speakers and power. Only 13 of 20 terminals populated:

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/9...4073yy4.th.jpgo

Right-hand connector. Pins for boot-mounted CD changer. Only 10 of 20 terminals populated:

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/616...4074ld0.th.jpgo

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

Upper trim panel removed, revealing upper mounting screws. It appears that inner cage may be welded to outer cage [UPDATE: No, it just slides in, held by one screw at rear]. At the very least, the outer cage is slightly different than US/JDM:

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/413...4075tg4.th.jpgo

Close-up of right side. Car's radio harness hiding behind the metal face? [UPDATE: Yes, that's one of two]

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6...4076ft2.th.jpgo

Removing the upper-left screw:

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/487...4077ek5.th.jpgo

Removing the lower screw (after removing the black plastic cover from the rear of the door):

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6...4078xw4.th.jpgo

The owner wasn't able to remove the outer cage, probably due to the SVX's antenna wires (you need to unplug them first — connectors accessed behind the carpet on the left side of the transmission hump). See section 2.3.2 in my SVX Audio Install Guide.

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

Here are a couple of pictures from Joe (svxistentialist):

Side view of outer cage with inner cage and OEM radio installed:

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1...cagesk4.th.jpgo

Opposite side, with inner cage removed and lined up underneath:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/424...atedju2.th.jpgo

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

Say, Phil — do you still have that extra SVX cage? Can you post some pictures? I'm curious how the antenna(s) connect.

You mentioned having chopped off the connector from the UK SVX radio. Were you talking about the one wired to the back of the cage that connects to the car's harness?

The first picture in the German RD25 PDF almost shows it :rolleyes:

Even if that's the one you cut off, I'd still be very interested to compare the UK cage to my pictures of the US one.

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

Here's the complete pin-out table for the left-hand 20-pin connector inside the cage:
Pin number orientation:

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/7...numswp1.th.jpgo

(view is looking into the cage as normally installed in the car)

This connector has no wires for illumination, dimming, or Steering Wheel Control buttons. Could some of those be on the right-hand 20-pin connector? [Answer — Illumination & Dimmer are not. They stop before reaching the back of the cage.]

Does the UK SVX not have the illumination dimming cancellation button (on the tip of the turn signal stalk)? [Answered later — Yes, the car has the button, but the illumination on the radio never changes brightness. It comes on whenever the ignition key is on Accessory or Run.]

The cage has only one antenna wire, connected to the motorized antenna. From comments on a German forum here, it looks like the car raises the antenna whenever the ignition is on. The car still has the rear window antenna, but it's not connected to the radio (one person mentioned he added a switch to manually select either of the two antennas, and disable the motor control line to stop raising that antenna when not needed). [In a reply below, Joe says that his SVX has a switch to raise or lower the antenna. It only works when the ignition is on.]

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/922...ttonrf3.th.jpgo

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

I probably still have the cage somewhere, I'll have a look for it. I think it is screwed to the outer cage, not welded. The guy I bought it from had removed it from the outer cage and there wasn't any sign of force having been used.

As far as I remember, the cage has a short antenna wire fixed to the back which hangs down behind the carpet of the footwell. As I remember it, the connector between the cage and car is one column wider than the Legacy one. It's got an extra two pins.

The connector on the right hand side of the cage is for the boot mounted cd changer. I figured out the pinout of it at one time, but I didn't keep a record.

You may be interested in this post, although it's not strictly relevant to this discussion.
http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...85&postcount=8

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

David,

Just to confirm, the correct radio harness for a european SVX is the Autoleads PC2-44-4. It is wider than the old legacy one.

Phil.

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

Thanks, Phil.

Here are some pictures of the Autoleads PC2-44-4 harness. It fits several Subaru models/years and converts to ISO connectors:

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2...rusikw5.th.jpgo http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5...baruwa8.th.jpgo

The Subaru side is a 14-position shell, and is the same as what has been used on all Subarus in North America (except the SVX) from1995 to 2007 (and also 1993-1994 Subarus outside North America).

I've posted the pin assignments for that harness here.

Starting in 2008 Subarus, some non-Navigation radios switched to a different harness, but the Navi radios continue to use this 14-position connector for speakers and power.

From the pictures, the Autoleads adapter definitely lacks the Orange/White "Dimmer" wire (at pin #7), a typical omission on aftermarket harnesses.

The harness barely visible in this close-up picture...

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7...ctorqy9.th.jpgo Attachment 12943

...looks suspiciously like one of the harnesses Subaru used for radios in older cars in the US — 1994 and earlier (1992 and earlier outside North America).

This is the connection between the cage and the car.

There are two harnesses — a 7-pin one with the power connections, and a 9-pin one with the speaker connections.

Autoleads' aftermarket wiring adapter is part number PC2-29-4:

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5...barupg7.th.jpgo

The colors of the wires visible in that close-up exactly match the factory wire colors posted by a US Legacy owner, Vikash. His pin-out table is here. Here's the pin-number diagram for the two connectors:

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7...rnesspiof3.gif

View is looking at the contact pins on the car's harnesses (wires pointing away from you). On the cage's harness (as well as on aftermarket harnesses), this would be the side with the wires pointing towards you, pins pointing away.

In the close-up picture, we're seeing pins 5–9 on the bottom, and pins 1–4 above that, both going from right to left.


BTW, the 9-position one of the the pair is the same harness people are using to talk to the ECU.

An online retailer's site mentions that the PC2-44-4 (single, 14-pin connector) fits "SVX manufactured after 09/1992". Were there perhaps some earlier European '92 SVXs that used this older (PC2-29-2) Subaru harness?

Unfortunately, the UK SVX owner who sent me the radio pictures didn't mention what was his car's year.

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

I see what you mean. It does look like a PC2-29-4. I was just going by the connector on the radio I bought from a UK owner. I think his car was a 94. I guess you need somebody with a 92 UK car to pull out their radio and confirm what is at the back.

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

What do you need to know Phil?

My '93 UK car has the radio out and the cage out. Tell me what you need information/pictures on.

These connector designations you mention here are Greek to me. I just expect them to plug and play.

Joe :rolleyes:

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

David wants to know if the radio connector is like this:

http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/ima...w200_th200.jpg

or like this:

http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/ima...w200_th200.jpg

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

I (and I'm sure others) would also be interested to see pictures of the sides and rear of the outer cage (what the SVX's radio door attaches to).

If you can easily separate the inner cage (i.e., if it isn't welded in), it would be nice to see pictures of its exterior, too.

The numbers such as "PC2-44-4" and "PC2-29-4" are simply Autoleads' (aftermarket harness manufacturer) part numbers for their wiring adapters.

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

OK guys

I'll get back to you later with pics and the skinny.

Joe :)

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

OK Fellas

Here are some pictures of the cages and connectors:

(click on thumbnails to see larger versions)


http://www.subaru-svx.net/photopost/...UK_93_005R.jpg http://www.subaru-svx.net/photopost/...UK_93_003R.jpg
These are the two sides of the CD slide in male connector

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photopost/...UK_93_002R.jpg http://www.subaru-svx.net/photopost/...UK_93_001R.jpg
And these are the two sides of the male slide-in connector for the radio side

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

Pictures of the cages:

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photopost/...UK_93_025R.jpg
Above is how the inner cage slots into the main frame

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photopost/...UK_93_022R.jpg
This one above is a view into the main box frame. You can see where the guides are for the smaller cage, which is secured at the back.

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photopost/...UK_93_027R.jpg
And this one shows the rear of the inner "slider" cage.
You can see the central locating screw. Also you can see where the two rectangular male connectors fit, and see the locating screw slots as well.

More to come.....

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

This is a few pics of the white connectors I think you are interested in.

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photopost/.../P1010586R.JPG
This above is a picture of the larger connector

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photopost/.../P1010585R.JPG
While this above is the smaller one.

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photopost/.../P1010589R.JPG
Above is a clear shot of the wiring in the back of both connectors. These are on the radio/aerial side.

Joe

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

You can view a full series of the photos all in large format for fine detail in my svxistentialist photopost album here

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=562&ppuser=66

under svxistentialist:Technical

Let me know if this shows all you need.

Joe

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

Many thanks, Joe! Your pictures are very helpful.

Could I trouble you to add a couple more to your photo album — a straight-on side view of the two cages docked, and a side view of the two separated, one above the other. It's a little difficult to tell the depths from your angle shots.

Does the car's 7-position connector have 5 wires populated?

It looks like the cage's mating connector has only 3 wires.

That would mean the car's connector doesn't include the wire for the motor antenna, and the cage's connector omits that and both illumination wires.

Does the radio illumination simply come on whenever you turn the key to Accessory or Run? Is there any way to dim it?

Does your SVX have a motorized antenna? Does it extend whenever the key is on Accessory or Run?

How does the little plastic "Subaru" faceplate attach? Are those round things magnets? Or what does the back of the faceplate look like?

If you were to cut off the faceplate holder, and bend flat the two tabs on the sides of the outer cage, do you think a "modern" single- or double-DIN radio could be mounted in the outer cage?

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

Phew David! That's a heck of a lot of questions! :eek: And me thinking I had answered everything! :rolleyes:

Answers below where known, photos later:

You're welcome. And yes, will take those later for you. There is a fair bit of work sizing them smaller for the website and waiting for each to upload.

Regards the first, that smaller white male connector has 4 wires from the radio male "slider connector". You can clearly see that in the big picture two posts up.

Rather strangely the female socket that it plugs to has only 3 wires leaving. Can you explain that? [Your second point, I suspect?]

I would agree with this third statement.

Yes. It does. And no. It does not respond to the dimmer button on the end of the stalk.
No, it can't be dimmed. The illumination has two colours. Green like you would expect, and a press of the "ill" button for 2 seconds+ changes all to amber. Amber is a little easier on the eyes, but the green is no way over-bright.

Yes it does. Turning on the ignition does not extend it [unless the switch is in the ON position], neither does turning on the radio extend it. Like the European ones this model has an independent 2-position switch on the console. When the switch is ON and the ignition is ON the aerial will be extended. When the switch is OFF the aerial will be down.

Yes, before you ask, this means you can have the radio on with no aerial extended. You will notice it by the reception being poor, if you do not take account of the aerial switch position. This is a minus point for this configuration.

A positive benefit is that you can turn on the stereo/CD during an automated car wash without having your aerial blitzed off! :rolleyes:

I don't remember. I think it just clicks into place. The round things are not magnets. They just keep the plate at the correct separation. I think it springs against them before clicking into place. They probably also act against it vibrating and making noise.

Good question. Yes. I happen to have a double din unit here. I took it out of my Japanese RVR because the Japanese radio frequencies are not correct here. If you did what you are suggesting a double-din would fit OK. If you notice in the 5.08 post above, the outer box is wider at one point to accommodate the slider-cage? The double din unit I have will fit even the narrow part of the outer box.

However, to get it to slide straight in I suspect the plastic cover may have to be taken off the outer cage. When in the open position it does not fully move clear of the rectangular opening. Maybe a double din unit would fit without taking it off, it's only a few mm. Mehh. I think it would be better to take off the cover. :)

Joe

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

Photos as requested now uploaded to the album

Joe :)

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

Thanks! I've been occasionally getting questions from other SVX owners in Europe, so all of these pictures give me a much better idea of how the factory radio is installed and wired.

Now I just need to figure out if Subaru changed to the single 14-pin harness (instead of the 7- and 9-position pair) at some later model year. Otherwise I'm not sure why Autoleads would say to use the adapter with the 14-pin connector.

Interesting. BTW, I call it a "7-position" connector since it has slots where up to 7 pins/wires could go. For reference, here's a close-up from your picture:

http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/atta...1&d=1233267467

I thought I was seeing a 5th wire, but it must just be a shadow.

I have no doubt that the connector includes +12V Accessory, +12V Battery, and Ground (and those three are picked up by the cage's mating connector).

No surprise that Subaru omitted the motor antenna wire, since you have a separate switch for that.

Your 4th wire is Illumination + (at pin #5). So if you were to install an aftermarket radio that has a dimmer wire, you'd have something to connect it to :)

On the US cage, I'm able to temporarily open the door a little wider to slide in a double-DIN radio. I'll bet you could do that on the European cage as well.

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

Hmm. That's definitely a PC2-29-4 connector in your SVX. Maybe I got my two cages mixed up. Perhaps the cage with the 2-44-4 connector was from the Legacy.:o :rolleyes:

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

Phil.

You are from Lincoln. Or thereabouts.


Explain?

:confused:

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

I'll check this David

:)

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

Lincoln? :confused:

I have two of those inner cages. One is the same as yours, the other has a 14-pin plug. I thought the 14-pin one was from a UK SVX and the other was from a Legacy. But it appears I had them mixed up.

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

OK, I had a look at the wiring. You were correct David. There was a fifth [red] wire. It's actually visible in the wiring cord where it is taped farther back in the same picture.

Of the five wires coming into the connector, only three of them get connected to the unit. These are the blue with pink stripe on one side on its own, the black over on the other side and the brown with the red stripe. These two are on the opposite side of the connector.

The two redundant wires are red [or pink maybe?] with a black stripe and a plain red wire.

Do I understand you that possibly one of these unused pair could be used for a dimmer connection? And the other is possibly a live for an aerial feed?

So the smaller connector has 7 positions as you note. 5 wires are connected to it with two empty positions. 3 of the 5 are picked up by the unit.

The larger connector would be a 9 position model using the same logic. In this car it has 8 wires to it and one empty position in the centre.

I have a 95 UK car with the exact same radio, and I would presume it has the exact same pair of connectors. [In fact 2 connectors for the radio side and the other black connector for the CD controller side]

If there has been a change to a 14 pin harness I can only surmise that this change came with the 96/97 cars which were wired for OBD II. This would be a fundamental difference that could easily be checked with the owner. It's probably safe to assume that all early cars, 92-95, particularly 2-tone cars, are wired in the way these photos depict.

I hope that's a little clearer now. :rolleyes:

Joe

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

:D:rolleyes:

I had drink taken when I posted that Phil. I figured that is what you meant.

;)

Joe

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

BTW I'm thankful you fellows were looking for help on this. I have not worked on the black car for 6 months, it has lain in a state of stripped wiring for some time while I concentrated on the other cars.

I discovered I have a family of blasted mice in the boot, and they have chewed up my upholstery foam and god knows what else! :mad: F ing bastids!

Since yesterday I have caught three of them, and I'm still in angry trapping mode. :o

Who knows what kind of damage they would have done if you guys had not been looking for information? Thank you both!:)

Joe :D

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

Here is what you have:

Pin-out table for your 7-pin harness (from the car):
Pin-out table for the matching 7-pin harness (going to your cage):
NC = No Connection

Both of your two "extra" wires are for illumination/dimmer.

Illumination + is open-circuit when the lights are off, and +12V when the parking lights or headlights are on.

Dimmer (Illumination –) is open-circuit when the lights are off, and a variable voltage when the lights are on. Voltage is determined by the dimmer ring on the stalk. This wire approaches 0 volts for "brightest" and +12V for dimmest (which is backwards from what you might expect). That's just the way Subaru does it.

The dashboard light bulbs are connected between these two lines.

Aftermarket radios that have a "dimmer" lead usually want you to connect it to the car's "Illumination +" wire.

[UPDATE: Pins 2 is Illumination +, pin 5 is Dimmer (illumination –). Wire colors were/are correct.]

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

Thanks for the info David.

Please feel free to download any of the images in my Photo Post folder if they may be of use to you on your website.

Joe

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

Yikes! Well that's definitely the first time my asking radio/wiring questions has helped with a vermin problem. But you're welcome! :D

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

Heh Heh.

I have trapped three so far, and no more seem to be going for the bait, so I reckon I have won the battle. ;) :)

Because the rear lights were letting in some moisture I left the plugs out of the wheel-well in the boot.

That's where the furniture chewing bastages got in! :mad:

So anybody out there with these plugs pulled out should be wary of this problem.


Joe

Re: SVX / Legacy radio compatibility
 

OK David

As per your excellent advice I have now replaced the large pictures with thumbnails to make it better for those with slow connections and to ease on bandwidth usage.

Thanks for the methodology, I'll be making more use of this. :rolleyes:

As for my mice, I have now caught four, and they are taking no more bait, so I think they are all gone.

I think I will replace the plugs in the wheel well with metal grids that will let out moisture, but also keep out mice. That could permanently solve my problem.

Joe :)