I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

In addition to the likely blown head gasket, I had a code stored in the TCU. I checked the resistor and it seemed ok. I put it back in and tried to retrieve the stored code. I couldn't move the gear selector. So I started the car in hopes of "loosening things up". I thought, maybe the ATF is low so I checked it. It seemed low so I turned off the engine and put some in. I went to start it again and it would not start. Not even a click. Not drawing much current at all from the battery. Maybe 10A when the key is turned to "start". WTF?!?!?!

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

How old is the battery? If not old, or if it is, check the connections. My Impreza did that when the negative connection was hardly loose at all.

I hear ya on the head gaskets. That's my winter project, among other things.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Battery is 4 years old. I checked and tightened the connections.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

`

Tony you say "I couldn't move the gear selector" This indicates something probably mechanical as well as electrical.

Check that the inhibitor switch which moves along with the selector, for mechanical operation. Is it jammed damaged or whatever?

Cheers, Trevor.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Yes, I agree that the stiff gear selector is definitely a mechanical issue. I have read the cable can bind up and especially if the car sits. We have had a TON of rain this year so it wouldn't surprise me if that affected the cable.

What has me more baffled is why the car suddenly won't start. It started for me once today without an issue. I checked the ATF level and decided it was low so I turned the car off and added fluid. The car will not start now.

I tested the battery and it can provide 688 CCA. Like I said earlier, I put a clamp style amp meter on the ground wire and only about an additional 10A are drawn when I try to turn the ignition switch to "start". When in the "ON" position, everything on the dash lights up, I can hear the fuel pump and the car draws about 10A. It goes up to about 20A when I try to start the car. I never noticed this before but the climate control, clock and radio turn off when the ignition switch is turned to "start". I assume that is normal.

As an aside, when I have the ignition turned to "ON", I can hear a click when I press the button on the gear selector but I can't move the selector at all.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

You should not be able to move the selector without pressing the brake.

In fact you should hear a 'clunk' noise when in park and you press the brake on and off from the shift lock solenoid.

The inhibitor switch is probably preventing the starter from engaging. Try jiggling the shifter while turning the key and see if that does anything.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

You should follow through suspecting the inhibiter switch.

Presuming that the battery is in all respects 100%. ----

You advise "It started for me once today without an issue."

You have an intermittent fault and must take this into account and search accordingly. Push and pull things as you check and test.

You advise that it goes up to only 20 amps when you apply voltage to the starter. This indicates that :-

* There is a voltage drop between the starter and the battery i.e. resistance in the wiring and connections. Or :-

The starter or the starter solenoid is faulty is not applying a normal load against the battery.

The inhibiter switch is disrupting full voltage to the solenoid.

You advise that "I never noticed this before but the climate control, clock and radio turn off when the ignition switch is turned to "start"."

This indicates that there is voltage drop affecting the overall electrical network.

* Check for voltage drop across the starter supply circuit by measuring for voltage between the battery positive terminal and the main starter terminal while cranking the car. If there is anything close to say a one volt drop you have identified that your problem involves the main battery supply circuit.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Have you tried starting it in neutral?

I know the feeling of "I am ready to blow this car up." I was ready to burn mine a few weeks ago when I was battling the crank sensor issue on mine. I said to my wife " It's a shame to burn this f@#$%ing thing because they're so rare, but I'm sick of this bull@#$t."

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Nope. I don't hear anything when pressing the brake. But when I press the button on the shifter, I hear a click.

I tried wiggling the shifter while turning the key but it never tried to start. However, it did click on and off in the shifter when wiggling.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Tony, have you read and taken notice of post number seven ?

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

I have but I have been limited in what I can try due to illness and crappy weather. They are calling for 8 inches of snow today. It basically hasn't stopped precipitating since July. Worst 4+ months of weather I can remember. That is probably why my shifter cable is bound up.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Sad news Tony,

Down this way I am very much inclined to not take into considerations your cold weather problems and you will have to take your time. While you are keeping warm take the time to plan and consider things in a logical order and when the weather allows attack things accordingly.

Meantime Il hope nothing seriously expensive is involved and hence my thoughts on tackling the problem progressively.

Cheers, Trevor.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

I got a chance to play with this a little today. I was able to get the screw out and do the emergency procedure to unlock the shifter. I was able to loosen the shifter enough to get it into neutral, I think. The shifter is really stiff

Still won't start. I still don't hear any click or clunk when I press the brake pedal. I tried to take out the starter interrupt relay but I think I took out the flasher relay instead. Car is still surrounded by snow so I am limited in what I can do.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Tony, frustrating that you are weather bound but meantime:-

Please be more specific. When you say that the car will not start, are you meaning in fact that it will not crank, which I presume is the situation ?

It is likely that you removed the correct relay. Be aware that if when experimenting you have in fact removed the starter interrupt relay, the starter solenoid and consequently the starter motor circuit will not operate. The relay is a normally closed device whereby the its contacts complete the circuit when it is not energised and break the circuit when energised and therefore if removed the circuit will cease to exist.

The contacts are held closed entirely by spring pressure which over time can deteriorate. Here lies the problem which causes the much reported click, click, click nom start issue. If faulty it must be replaced unless one is edept enough to open it up and fix it.

You have reported. “When in the "ON" position, everything on the dash lights up, I can hear the fuel pump and the car draws about 10A. It goes up to about 20A when I try to start the car. I never noticed this before but the climate control, clock and radio turn off when the ignition switch is turned to "start". I assume that is normal.”

This is certainly not normal and indicates a voltage drop within the cars circuitry or alternatively that the battery is unable to supply the required current. First off you must confirm the latter with a volt meter connected directly across the battery while the load is applied and discover if the voltage holds up or falls off significantly.

You have reported, “I tested the battery and it can provide 688 CCA.” Exactly how and when was this figure recorded ?

Whatever, the problem must be tackled carefully and in a logical order.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

“When in the "ON" position, everything on the dash lights up, I can hear the fuel pump and the car draws about 10A. It goes up to about 20A when I try to start the car. I never noticed this before but the climate control, clock and radio turn off when the ignition switch is turned to "start". I assume that is normal.”

Yes that is normal.
As the car has been standing long enough for the shifter to stick, it can also have the starter gear stick to the starter scroll, that the solenoid should push the gear into mesh with the ring gear.
As the bottom of the bell housing is open, moisture condenses up in the top of it, where the starter gear is, so the solenoid just clicks.
I have had this happen to my car here in the tropics.:)

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

I agree that in the event of the abnormal conditions suggested, if and only if, the solenoid does nor move far enough for its contacts to close as is normal, an abnormal situation whereby an increase of only 10 amps could possibly abnormally occur.

However in that instance the confirmed quite small abnormal increase in current, provided that everything else is normal, would not cause the abnormal symptom reported, whereby the climate control, clock and radio abnormally turn off. Therefore the suggested abnormal scenario can not apply.

In accordance with my previous post the symptoms described by Tony are certainly not normal and indicate a voltage drop within the car circuitry or alternatively that the battery is unable to supply the required current.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

When I say it won't start I mean it does absolutely nothing when I turn the key to start. No turning of the starter, no clicking noise...nothing but silence. That it why I started to suspect the starter interrupt relay. I know I pulled out the wrong relay as it only had three contacts. My car is OBD2 and I think the starter interrupt relay is located way up near where the throttle cable goes into the firewall. It is really hard to see and grab and appears to he held in with a barb-style plastic fastener. A real PITA!

When the damn snow melts and my more flexible sons are home, I will try to trace voltages. My gut tells me to suspect the security module. That has acted up now and then and it controls the starter interrupt relay. When I say it acts up, it sometimes will beep the horn as I am driving down the road for no reason. If I pull over and restart the car, it stops beeping. So it is clearly not well.

Is that starter interrupt relay really normally closed? I ask because my wiring diagram shows it as open, implying normally open. Either way, I am of the mindset to remove it and short the appropriate pins. I don't think anyone will be stealing this car.

On the security module, if I replace that, can I reprogram my key fobs to work with it or do I need the key fobs that were programmed for it?

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Thanks Tony,

The wiring diagrams (You show your knowledge by not referring to them as schematics) seldom show relay contacts correctly and you are on top of it because many people do not even know what the word "normal" means in respect of an electrical component much less a discussion.

As I understand it when an SVX was supplied without a security system, as a matter of course in order to enable production of a universal wiring loom, a dummy shorting loop and plug was inserted in place of the interrupt relay. My Japanese manufactured SVX had such a plug. Your idea is therefore well founded and you should use this approach before giving any thought towards the security system.

In respect of the security system you have now thrown another potential spanner in the works and also again confirmed the bogie of an intermittent fault. Unfortunately you are drifting even further up a creek and it is becoming increasingly more difficult to hand you a paddle. LOL

Consider each possible cause individually and eliminate each in turn. A scatter gun will get you no where. Stick with a target rifle and first off make absolutely sure that the battery supply is beyond doubt.

Rather than check for voltage at individual points it can often be best to check for voltage drop between points within a supply line. I am sure that you will appreciate how each method has a place in trouble shooting.

The Lord of logic is your friend and he will bring you the best of luck.

Sincerely, Trevor.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Tony you could check to see if the starter motor actually works, by leaving the key turned off, then use a jumper wire to put + power to the starter solenoid spade terminal, if the starter is OK it will turn, that would eliminate one thing.:)

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

.
You can use your existing key fobs with the new security module. Once you have the module installed, you follow the instructions to enter it into programming mode. That sets it up to receive the new codes from YOUR key fobs ( which overwrite the ones stored in it.

The same way the new remotes from keylessride are used when programming them into your security system.
.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Any idea if the OBD2 security modules are the same as OBD1?

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

.
They are identical modules, just in different location in later years. The OBD parimeters for engine management should not make a difference.

The usual problem is that the security system internal relay has failed (causing the red light to stay on) Replacing the relay is possible, part can be found an electronics store, maybe online. Must be soldered out and in. Takes a bit of electronics knowledge and skills to accomplish this.

Part number is 202-2514

http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/atta...1&d=1549460018

.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Is there a schematic for this thing? I would like to see if the relay is also why my car beeps randomly. I bet it is because it does seem to happen in high humidity conditions.

Still, I am changing my gut feeling on the no start problem. I noticed that my dash is saying that I am in reverse and, even though there is some play in the selector, it won't change from reverse as I move it back and forth. I started to remove the center console in hopes that I can get penetrating lubricant into the cable. I just need to get the damn thing in neutral so I can tow it to a shop where they can fix everything on a nice lift.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Tony the shift cable connects to the manual lever on the side of the box, a pin in the centre of the manual lever locates into the inhibitor switch to rotate it, so if the shift lever is actually moving the manual lever, the Inhibitor switch is not rotating, staying in reverse the starter won’t work .

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Kia ora Tony,

It would appear that all along the car has been telling you that it is in reverse bur unfortunately the message has become confused. Probably the indicator light was affected along with the climate control etc.

It has been emphasised that you should adhere to a logical sequence of fault finding but unfortunately the weather has been solidly against you and it is significant that only now have you been able to properly start the sequence at square one. Nice and warm down here so wishing you the luck need.. LOL

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

You should be able to see the lever on the side of the box from under the hood, look down the passengers side of the engine at the side of the box, if you have somebody else move the shift lever in the car, you should see if the gear lever moves too.:)

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Tell me if I am getting this right.

1. The inhibitor switch is located on the side of the transmission and not near the gear selector in the car.
2. The cable connects the gear selector to a lever on the side of the tranny and this lever both controls the tranny and the inhibitor switch.

Any suggestions on lubricating the cable from inside the car? I have the center console off and the gear indicator unscrewed.

What is the purpose of the limit switch on the gear selector? It looks like it is only depressed when the lever is in park.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Yes you are getting this right.

However there is no limit switch as such. A simple mechanical trigger prevents the inadvertent movement of the lever from the park position and therefore works as a safety catch and it should be operating freely.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

The Inhibitor switch mounts over the lever on the side of the transmission, so the cable moves both together, that switch works the gear position lights on the dash directly, and signals the transmission, and starter circuits.

The cable has to be lubed from under the car, sorry.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

"The cable has to be lubed from under the car, sorry."

Obviously lubricant will not readily run uphill.

CRC or an equivalent in a spray can is your friend and can be applied liberally from inside the car while sheltered from the weather and without any fear of damage. Hose the damned thing and at the very least, it will be sorry. LOL

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

There is definitely a switch. It is one of those rectangular switches with the little metal arm that pivots on the one end attached to the rectangular housing and has a tiny button/plunger under the metal arm which is connected to the switch inside the housing. A lot of people use these as interlock switches on the enclosures of dangerous equipment like high power lasers. It looks like it gets depressed when the selector is in park and the button on the gear selector is not depressed. In other words, it gets released as soon as the button on the gear selector is pushed in. It is depressed by the metal pin that rides in the metal track as you move the gear selector through the gear selections.

I don't think it matters for this discussion. I was just curious.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

You have described a typical off the shelf micro switch and my car did not have one and I can find nothing showing it in the US electrical wiring diagrams I have. Could it be an add-on and the cause of your trouble ?

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Trevor (and others),

the micro switch together with the interlock button and solenoid relay are found on some JDM models and also some USA types - there maybe other countries.

Here are 3 photos that I took of a spare unit I have (I used the POWER button only for my TCU ROM upgrade) + the service manual page showing all 3 devices..

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Absolutely great work Steve, Kiwis to the rescue. LOL

The mysteries continue. Of special interest is the inhibiter switch P Range as shown on the wiring diagram. *This would appear be the elusive micro switch and itv certainly must be taken into account along with the included circuitry. *P.S.On second thoughts I think I am wrong in this respect and that within the circuitry the micro switch remains unidentified. Exact information would certainly be helpful and much appreciated.

Having to check all this out under snow conditions is a herculean undertaking and we must commiserate with Tony.

Special Thanks, Trevor.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Trevor,
Yes was a bit surprised when I took my gear shifter apart to fit the POWER switch - we don't have any of that interlocking stuff...wonder why not?

Maybe it is a law in some countries that you need multiple lockouts for safety reasons - or that there are silly people around that need protecting from themselves?.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

OK Steve,

Do you know how it works electrically and in particular does it involve the starter circuitry ? If it does, Tony should check it out.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Judging by my earlier photos and also the wiring diagram, I would say that the micro switch is connector R51 (white) with postion 3 and 4.

Position 1 and 2 of R51 (white) is actually located on another page - this is the manual/eco push button on the gear selector (it has black sheath with 2 pins in the 3rd picture) - I took the pins out to measure them against another project.

Really you are looking at the A/T shift lock control unit pins 5 & 6 being grounded, I have a couple of spare A/T control units (USDM and a JDM) to look at tomorrow, will see if there are any differences - I don't have one on my NZ new version?. This unit is normally located just behind the hand brake.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-1997-S...-/142606268142

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

The interlock switch on the shifter unit that gets depressed when in park is for the key release in the steering column. You cannot switch the key all the way to lock and remove it in any gear other than park. It has no connection to the starting circuit.

The starting circuit runs through the selector switch on the side of the transmission and will only be connected in park and neutral. With the cable disconnected at the transmission the switch can be moved into position by hand from under the car. All the way to the rear is park.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

That makes perfect sense. I wonder if this was added on OBD2 cars.

Re: I am ready to blow this car up. Won't start now.
 

Do you have pics of the underside of that thing? I would like to see where it attaches to the shift cable.