Powder coating SVX rims ( how hard can it be?)
 

So.. There are a few expressions that have made my life.... shall we say, interesting.

They are:

"What's the worst that could happen!"

" How much could that possibly cost? "

" This shouldn't take that long!"

" It can't be that hard!"

So in my infinite wisdom, I decided to pick the 4 worst factory rims I own ( out of 12 ), and powder coat them to match the burgundy paint on my '97. Little did I know what I was getting myself into:eek:

So, what's the first thing I'm gonna need? Something to get the old finish off the rim!

Attachment 18276

Now it would seem that Northern Tool isn't exactly "Ship to Canada" friendly, So I got pretty much the same thing at "Princess Auto" here in Canada, for about $100.00, Taxes in.

If you've never heard of or seen such a device, here's the ten cent tour:

Wet sandblasting uses the power of the water jet to accelerate the sand to increase it's abrasive ability, it keeps the working area cool, and minimizes dust. Theoretically, you just hook it up to your pressure washer, stick the pick up probe in a bag of blasting media, and rust, scale, powder coating, etc., just magically disappears with a wave of the blast wand... at least that's how they make it look on YouTube. They lied. ... Damn, did they lie!

Now let's add 3 bags of media to the shopping list. 3 fifty pound bags of ground glass, and we're out the door $60.00 lighter.

How much could this possibly cost?:lol:

So far, $160.00.

There's way more to come, but that's enough till tomorrow.

Of course, comments, questions, suggestions are more than welcome... especially suggestions..

Re: Powder coating SVX rims ( how hard can it be?)
 

And the first suggestion, I'm looking for is how to put a picture in a post so that it shows as a picture, not as an attachment..:o

Re: Powder coating SVX rims ( how hard can it be?)
 

Open a photobucket account and upload your pictures. When you open a picture in your browser there will be "share links" on the right side. Click the one that says IMG. When you do this it will return a message that say copied. Go to your posting and paste in the link that it copied to your clip board.

Hopefully the blasting kit will be useful on other projects. For that price you could have probably had someone blast them clean.

Re: Powder coating SVX rims ( how hard can it be?)
 

@ Sean486.. Oh yeah, it'll get used for more than just 4 wheels. So far, it's done 2 sets of cast iron BBQ grills, Lawnmower deck, etc. It's a cool toy, just messy as hell.. Flat surfaces are a breeze, angled surfaces are, well, challenging, to say the least.

So now it's time to try out the powder coating kit that came in the mail. Over the last few years, I've become a student at Y&G university (YouTube & Google), so, a couple of hours of reading reviews, searching websites, forums. etc., I'm pretty sure I found one that will do the job. It would seem that a variable voltage output type is desirable, as smaller items need less voltage, larger items, need more. So do second coats ( clear coats ). I had no idea that something called the "Faraday cage effect" even existed. But now I at least understand how it affects the adhesion of the powder coat to the metal.

Variable voltage 25 KV to 50KV. Check
Air pressure adjustable at the gun.. Check
Comes with different tips......... Check
Pedal operated electrical switch.. Check

$300.00 later, well, if it comes out crappy, there'll be no blaming the powder coating gun.

But wait! If I'm going to powder coat, I'm going to need powder coat media. A couple of hours later, having kicked the crap out of Google, I come to the conclusion that there's nowhere that I can just walk into, pick a colour from a chart, and say "I'd like a pound of this, Please". Ounces and pounds are plentiful on Ebay, but the prices are steep, some places are charging an arm and a leg to ship to Canada, if they will ship at all. Some even want to charge to pre pay the Duty, of course, for a small service fee. Meanwhile, anything shipped to Canada, worth less than $50.00, usually doesn't get duty charged, as it's more expensive to process the payment than it's worth.

Now what to do? Get gouged and wait a week or two for the product to arrive, never having seen the colour with my own eyes, not on a monitor? Order and wait for a product that I've never felt the texture of? I think not.. There's one more unexplored avenue....

Lie! Lie like a rug! Suddenly I'm no longer just some putz looking to buy a pound of powder to re-do 4 esoteric rims! No! I'm now the President of a small powder coating company, looking to change my supplier! The first fish swallows the bait, hook, line and sinker! YES!

An hour later, I'm in the executive offices of a local powder coating manufacturer, getting schmoozed by the V.P of Marketing. Sweet! Some chutzpah, and a business card and I'm in! My only mistake? I brought my V.P of sales with me, my son. He instigated a brutal case of the "might as wells". "Well dad, if we're going to get this colour, why don't we get red, blue and green too? Then we can mix any colour we want." Well, it made sense, but it turned a 2Kg. "sample" into a 9 sample $180.00 order. For the purpose of this thread, however, I'll split the math into what I bought, and what actually gets used to do the four rims.


Now we need something to try it out on.. I figured the back handle of my trailer would look good in "Clear Burgundy"



http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5d72aab7.jpg

Re: Powder coating SVX rims ( how hard can it be?)
 

I can't wait to see the results on the rims, I have the same colour '97.

For shipping of stuff from the USA, you should consider The UPS Store in your nearest border town. For over 12 years I've been shipping everything expensive or with stupid Canadian shipping rates to The UPS Store in Ogdensburg, NY. I then do a combination pick-up, shopping trip to the USA.

Anything from out of state has no tax and you only pay the HST at the border. Very rarely they will charge 8% duty for tires which are not NAFTA. At The UPS Store you pay $5.00 per item picked up.

Re: Powder coating SVX rims ( how hard can it be?)
 

Now it would seem that you're not supposed to ever cook food again in an oven that's been used for baking powder coat. Off to the local Goodwill to get..

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps319e0324.jpg
Another $20.00 into the project, and it's time to get at it.



http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps54ab72ee.jpg

The mouse.. capable of 100 PSI... eventually..

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps81ee0a5a.jpg

Powder coating box..


http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3c6cb74c.jpg

powder coating ( about twice what I'll need, and then some )

Re: Powder coating SVX rims ( how hard can it be?)
 

Time to sand the handle, hang it up, ground it, coat it and bake it..


Oh but wait! Safety first! The V.P. is concerned that breathing in powder coating may have long term adverse effects on the lungs. So it's off to buy a respirator. Another $50.00 ... Then The V.P. complains that having only one means that only one of us can be there at a time, so it's back for another one..




http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps817449a5.jpg


I wonder how much of this to do one handle? Let's try two tablespoons.

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3283ef6a.jpg

Hung up, ground clip on and ready to coat

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...pscde82a93.jpg

In the oven for 20 minutes


http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2f314236.jpg

Finished, far from perfect, but it gives a good idea of colour and finish.

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps695a6184.jpg

Re: Powder coating SVX rims ( how hard can it be?)
 

Looking good Chucksta.

Will the rims fit in the toaster oven? :lol:

Re: Powder coating SVX rims ( how hard can it be?)
 

Add a new stove/oven to the list. Those rims will be worth their weight in gold powder coating!:D

Re: Powder coating SVX rims ( how hard can it be?)
 

It's great to have friends.. they'll go way out of their way to "help" you with a new endeavour..

"Oh! you're gonna try powder coating?.. Here, I've got a set of rims you can practice on"

With a set of 4 aftermarket rims to practice on, it's time to see what water sandblasting is like.


OOPS!!

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2bc47306.jpg

Well I'm not 100% surer it's an oops.. But this wasn't in the brochure. Not by a long shot. When the wet blasting jet hits a curves surface, it's like sticking your face in a combination hurricane / sand storm. Plus, the goggles go opaque, so you have to stop, see what you did, and then "use the force" on the next pass. Sand landed up in places that hadn't seen sand in over half a century. Cold wet sand. Very cold.

I wasn't overly thrilled with the result, powder coating left in crevices wouldn't much matter on a dark solid powder coat re finish. A clear colour, like the one I'm going to use, would, it seems to me, with a dark residue in the crevices, would either look really good, or really crappy. Nothing in between.

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7fb72a69.jpg

Oh well, good thing they were "donor rims"

Re: Powder coating SVX rims ( how hard can it be?)
 

Did someone say "Will the rims Fit in a toaster oven?"..


Yup, good point, especially with that whole "you can never use the oven for food again" thing.

Time for Kijiji..

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1eb0277e.jpg

I guess that's another $80.00 into the price tag. Picking it up was priceless. Me and the V.P. ( He got to be V.P. of acquisitions for this one ) wheeles it on a dolly to the trailer. One heavy antique, the two of us couldn't get it into the back of the trailer upright. I looked at the boy and asked him why we were being careful. It was going in the garage to bake stuff. You should have seen the look on the seller's face when we flipped it on it's side and slid it onto the trailer! Grind, clank clank. There was already a plug in the garage....

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6effc4aa.jpg

Too bad it didn't work. I don't mind working with 120V, but frankly 220V scares me.The "beeper" probe swore up and down that there was power to the line. The meter said the plug was dead. WTF? Popped the cover off the receptacle, and found the wires marretted . Connected them to the proper connection and was pretty much ready.


Time to see if the rims would have to go in upright, or on their backs. I need to know which way to hang them when I coat them.


OOPS..

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...psaddf89e7.jpg

It would seem my buddy's 18 inch rims aren't gonna get powder coated anytime in the near future. On a a much brighter note, the SVX 16 inch stock rims fit quite nicely:lol:

Re: Powder coating SVX rims ( how hard can it be?)
 

Well, truth be told, wet blasting blows chunks, large. There's got to be a better way! Off we go for another session of the university of Y&G (YouTube & Google) . There's tons of stuff about what kind of abrasive media does what, the health risks, blah, blah, blah. It'd be a different story if I was doing in a blast cabinet, as I would be able to see what I was doing, go slower. be more gentle, reuse expensive media, etc. I did pick up a blast cabinet at an auction. I went there for a zero turn lawn mower, and came home with a blast cabinet. Although I can get the rim in, I can't realistically do anything with it once it's in. Yup, it's my turn to yell "It's too big".

Anyways, buried in a powder coating forum, one guy... yup, just one guy says " The chemicals in Permatex Gasket Remover should dissolve powder coating, it should work just like paint stripper". Well, never having been one to be afraid of living better chemically, it's off to Canadian tire to score the last two cans on the shelf. Back home to test fire this concept on the first wheel. Like I said, in case this science experiment goes horribly wrong, i'm going to be using the worst of three sets that I own.


The first test subject..


http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps920f13dd.jpg


Yup... This one has seen better days... and almost twenty Canadian winters, with LOTS of salt.

A quick spray with Permatex Gasket Remover and.. wow!~!

Gee Cap'n ya canna mix matta n' anti matta cold... it just canna be dun!

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps31205abb.jpg

On closer inspection

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9c4f5ba8.jpg


different angle


http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...psb3a86e79.jpg


I was wondering how many coats it would take to get all the powder coating off... I stopped when I realized that the powder coating WAS off, and that that was what aluminum was supposed to look like. A little work with the putty knife, and ...

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps18d3334e.jpg


Now let's see what a die grinder and a wire wheel do..


http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps65811274.jpg


Let's spend a little more time on it and try a few different wheels / speed and pressure settings..


http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps65d23b20.jpg

Gee, this is starting to look possible! I gave it a quick pass with just dry coarse glass bead, but didn't like the finish. The wire wheel smoothed it out quick enough. I wonder if that's what's meant by the expression "brushed aluminum"?


http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps976045f7.jpg


Definitely cause for celebration!

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps625a6926.jpg

Re: Powder coating SVX rims ( how hard can it be?)
 

I've got one rim about as nice as it's going to get, and another two not that far behind. It's time to do a final scrubbing, but first I'll "off gas " the rims by baking them in the oven at 400 F for about an hour each, to burn off anything that is in the pores of the metal. Then a pass with the wire wheel, wipe with alcohol and take a tack rag to it as a final step before coating and baking.

As it's physically impossible to see both sides of the car at the same time, I'm going to give two rims one colour scheme and two rims a different one. One side will be "Liquid Mirror Black" powder, shot into the back of the rim, without masking off the front section of the rim, and then the "Clear Burgundy" shot onto the spoke side, once again without masking. I should land up with a bit of the black mirror coating on the back edges of the spokes, underneath the Burgundy. The second rim for that side will get the same colour scheme, with the only difference being that I'll mask between the inside and the spoke side when I apply the powder coating. The two wheels for the other side will be done the same methodology, but I'll be using "Lamborghini Silver Vein" on the inside of the rim, instead of the liquid black. I hadn't made a colour choice before I started this, as I thought it was best to wait until I saw how well the rims came out physically. At this point, I'm pretty sure I can get a decent finish on the spokes with a clear colour, but it's doubtful on the on the (inside ) back of the rim, hence the choice of a solid colour powder. I'd never noticed it before, but the inside of a stock rim isn't smooth, it's grooved. Getting the surface pristine enough to have just clear coated them would have been a royal PITA.

When powder coating is being baked, it's around 25 minutes to cure, but that time only starts when the piece is up to curing temperature. on something like a belt buckle or fishing lure, it's just a case of add a couple of minutes to the curing time, set the timer and wait for it to go off. As a rim is a significant amount of metal to heat up to curing temperature, I'm probably looking at more like 45 minutes to an hour per rim. I have a IR / Laser temp gun from my nitro RC stuff to temp check the rim for when to start the clock. I think I'll have more than enough time to prep the fourth rim while baking the other three.

Re: Powder coating SVX rims ( how hard can it be?)
 

What is the curing temperature of the powder coat?

Before I had my JDM BBS wheels refinished by Transwheel, I contacted BBS directly. They said they use a wet method of painting their wheels first with BBS silver, which is a patented color and available only from them. I bought a quart and had it shipped from Germany to match my new BBS center caps

Once painted with the silver base coat they use a low-temperature clear powder coat on top to seal and protect. They also said that higher temperature powders can actually weaken the aluminum wheel somewhat and prematurely age it. This could be a problem in high-stress situations, like racing.

Here was their recommendation: Powder coat at 325 degrees for no more than 30-35 minutes. Do not shock the room-temperature wheels with a temperature of 325 degrees as soon as they are placed in the oven; rather ramp up the temperature from 200 to 325 degrees in a 10-minute period then the curing cycle starts from there.



Transwheel used this same procedure on my OEM wheels, using OEM silver paint and clear powder coat. See photo HERE and HERE

The refinished JDM BBS mesh wheel can be found HERE


Good luck with this ambitious project.

.

Re: Powder coating SVX rims ( how hard can it be?)
 

Well, the first rim is done, and I wish I could say it came out amazing, but that's not the case at all. It's not that it's un useable, it's more just not quite what I expected. Also, it's shown me what I can and can't get away with as far as prep and application is concerned.

To answer svxess's question, the spec is 10 minutes at 190 C ( 374 F ) for ten minutes. Fortunately, both colours and the clear coat call for the same curing temperature and time. According to the university of Y&G, there are a couple of technics for dealing with temperature and time variances when using layers of coating with different time and temperature specifications. The methodology for that situation includes such techniques as not completely "cooking" the under coat, and then applying the top coat while the part is still hot, cooking it a bit longer at a slightly lower temperature, etc. The part about not starting the timer on the cooking phase until the part itself has achieved full temperature raises several concerns when doing something as heavy as a rim. I'll get into that aspect of the process further along in this post, when you can see the pics to relate to what I'm talking about.

So, let's get to this.. I spent some more time with the wire wheel and die grinder and just wasn't satisfied with the way things were going. It seemed like I was still pulling stuff up from inside the metal. O.K.. screw this, I had the wet sandblaster hooked up from doing some other stuff earlier in the afternoon, so it was a bath of "McGuire's Aluminum Wheel Cleaner", a ten minute soak, and a blast of crushed glass and water at 2700 P.S.I. Then a rimse with the pressure washer with water only, then into the oven, just to dry the rim.

It's dry now, and showing some "sparklies" from the sand... Hmmm... wire wheel again, or just coat the rim and see where that gets us?

Obviously, the finish isn't perfect, but the question is, how much will this matter? I gave some thought to it, as the university of Y&G wasn't showing this in it's data base. I've painted enough walls to know pretty much what will show through a coat of paint, and what won't, but I've never painted a wall with a transparent paint either. Wood stains are designed to show and accentuate the grain, but are absorbed into the wood to accomplish this. All the "less than pristine" areas are in the curves of the arms, so whatever effect comes with coating them the way they are will be equal and balanced over the perimeter if the rim. http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps59bed725.jpg

Screw it, let's do it.. I got eight more, this can be the spare..

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8d9b40e8.jpg


As posted before, I'm going to use different methods with each rim. Or as the case may be, adjust the methodology on each rim. This one is "Liquid Mirror Black" on the inside of the rim first, "Clear Burgundy" on the spoke side second, with no masking... let the overspray go where it may. The idea being that "Black Mirror" will land up on the base of the spokes and lend a bit of shading / cover up underneath the "Clear Burgundy" on the spokes.


http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4fbce2e5.jpg

Now I really wish I'd have looked at this picture, taken with the flash on, and noticed that the coating was a bit light at the top of the rim. That wasn't visible to me at that angle without light. from below.. Note for next rim done at night... More light!

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...psf4dd6046.jpg


Time for the "Clear Burgundy" on the spoke side.


http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...psc4522e98.jpg

As expected, the overspray onto the black.


http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/...ps29e7f877.jpg



All that's left to do now is take it down and bake it.