Bad luck x 3
 

Some of you may remember my encounter in the Legacy with a NYSDOT snow plow on Christmas evening on our way to "Grandma's House".

A few days later, our rental Mitsubishi Montero Sport got clipped at a parking lot and got a scratched fender and bumper.

Last night we picked up our new 96 Outback 2.2 5 speed w/ winter package. We went about 50 miles away to pick it up at Bell Subaru in Rahway. It was snowing lightly, 33 degrees, so we took the SVX. Drove home without any problems with me first leading and then following in the 2 car convoy. Our driveway is really a 600 foot private road with 5 houses. We are at the top, two houses in the middle and two more at the bottom. The Outback did fine all the way back but fishtailed a bit going up our road which starts out flat, gets pretty steep, and flattens out at the top again. I got in our Ford Aerostar AWD van (w/4 studded snows) and drove down to bring the garbage cans to the curb. No sliding, no skidding, no problema.

Put the van away and decided to see how the new Outback handles going up the hill. Maybe I can do better than my wife.

Started slowly down hill in 1st gear. Suddenly, everything breaks loose, the car starts sliding, ABS goes crazy, car continues to slide straight down but now faster, one house at the bottom has three cars parked very close to the drive, the drive ends at a T with a 2 foot tall stone wall across the street and lots of trees. ****, what am I going to hit?!!!

Well, I managed to keep it straight, avoid the cars, and hit the wall right betweet two trees at ~25-30 mph. The car wound up on top of the crumbled wall with two trees pressed against the front doors. Had to open the rear left window and get out that way.

Bottom of bumper is gone, cross member and radiator got pushed up, fenders are bent due to the two trees. Who knows what else in addition to the suspension. I think this one may be totaled too. Once again I came away without a scratch.

I do not curse very often, but last night I made a conscious exception to my rule against it. I almost pinched myself to make sure that this was not a nightmare.

I walked up back to the house and informed the family of what I had just done. They all laughed thinking that it was a joke.

In the 16 years that we have lived there, I have never had a car just completely slide out of control, until last night. I am beginning to wonder if having it in 1st gear was the right thing to do. We have had mostly automatic transmissions recently except for a Mitsubishi Montero which finally died last year. Although I always used 1st gear in it to get down our mountain.

The tires on the car have ~75% tread and they are Mastercraft brand (I think). I did not give them too much notice other than they are the same brand and have decent life left. The first Legacy had Michelin MXV4 and I never had any serious problems in the snow.

Or perhaps it was the fresh tracks which I had made with the van a few minutes before which froze up and slickened?

Does anyone have thoughts about the best way to descend a slick hill with automatic and manual Subaru stystems?

Thanks,

Matt

You poor guy!
 

OMG, that sucks! I feel so bad for you :(

At least you are alright. My guess is that it was a combination of poor tire traction and too much 1st gear engine braking that resulted in your car never having a chance to get a grip on the slick stuff. Sadly I have no advice on driving a Subie in the snow or ice as this is my first winter with my SVX and it has spent more time in the shop than not during the winter nasties.

Best of luck!

Re: Bad luck x 3
 

On foot? :rolleyes:

Seriously, Matt, I am sad to hear about the accident and very happy that you're okay. :( :)

I'm thinking it was the tires that were the major contributing factor. Also, when you started sliding, did you leave the car in gear with the clutch engaged, or did you push the clutch to the floor?

I've found that slides in snow/ice can be worse when I'm trying to brake and the car is trying to keep some wheels turning. Pushing in the clutch and letting everything just roll takes one more factor out of the equation, and gentle braking can work better. Of course, if the car's turned into an inanimate object sliding down an icy hill, it may be impossible to regain control.

I've never done this in an AWD vehicle, so YMMV. I may gain some experience this winter.

Sorry about your new baby.

Here's my never-fail solution to controlled hill descent in virtually any vehicle:

1st gear, start it SLOW, disable ABS.

I'll modulate my OWN brakes, thankyouverymuch......

-adam

How does one disable the ABS? Do all cars have a fuse?

Matt

Matt,

Very sorry to here of your crash. IT is not any fun sliding out of control down a hill. I did that once and it is a very helpless feeling. I am glad your okay.

When you get a chance could you see how those tires are rated for snow at tirerack.com?

I think Adam has the right Idea.

I also use the E brake when the ABS acts up as I have not disconnected it ever.

I also stay on the fresh snow when possible.

John

i uh.... broke my ABS :rolleyes:

when we were replacing my front-right CV axle, the Chilton's manual called for the removal of the ABS sensor.. well, it was really stuck in there, so we kinda reefed on it for awhile before it came out. Must've broken the coil or something because when we put everything back together, the ABS light came on and they haven't functioned since.

The funny thing is that when you first start the car, it takes the light about 25 seconds to come on. In those 25 seconds, ABS actually functions. I guess it would rather not work at all than partially work.

My friend has a ~'91 audi sedan and there's actually a switch in the cabin to toggle ABS... I think anti-locks can actually be some help on dry pavement, or maybe even wet pavement.. but on snow they do more harm than good..

-adam

well the sliding instances i have had in the svx where two major ones

1. coming down my steep hill to get to my driveway, i had it in first, i wanted to go as slow as possible. my ABS was pulsing and rather upset. i pumped my brakes and managed to pull myself back to control and put my front tires on my stone driveway. i think the only reason i didn't hurt anything is because i was going so slow. if your brakes can't help slow you down, it is best to be in a lower gear to help slow you down.

2. i was going around a turn, i decided it would be better to put it in 3rd gear to help slow me down a bit, i would have gone lower but i was doing like 35mph. the person i was with, a fellow svxer, told me to push the manual button, knocks out first, so that there isn't as much torque in first gear. (i don't know, i just listened) anyways, hit some black ice and went for a little surprise ride. it lasted quite a while, i was scared to death. but i managed to pull out....very luckily...not to forget to mention, i didn't know the road i was on at all.

i guess i would advise the lower gear, i think it gives you more control. i have fairly new tires, i don't think that hurt at all.

i am really sorry to hear about what happened. :( :(

Kelli

couple things i've recently discovered about the manual button:

in D, ithas exactly no effect. romping the gas below 30mph will still put you in first gear and power mode..

in 3 it will keep you out of 1st, but i think it will keep you out of 2nd as well.. or at least it seems that way

and in 2 it will keep you our of 1st..

it will also keep you out of power mode in 3, 2, and 1.. however if you enter power mode and THEN press the manual button in 3 2 or 1, it will stay in power mode until you let off the gas and then operate in manual mode..

and yeah, first gear is WAY too hot for the snow.. second gear is truly where it's at. but be careful downshifting when you're at speed.. it can start the car bucking around if you're on snow when you do it..

-adam

I love ABS. It shudders and makes a horrible noise, but stops me faster than I can stop myself on ice or snow. And no, I'm not a total car-control moron.

One thing to remember (and I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, but), when you want to use ABS - SLAM ON THE BRAKES! ABS is one of the most important safety items to come along since - well - brakes!

hmmm...what I would try to do:

1. go as slow as possible in 1st gear
2. if the car starts sliding I would look for something to slow me down like a snow drift
3. look for the path of least destruction because I know I'm not slowing down