UberRoo, that's an excellent way to put it...in the end to each his own. I'm a big fan of drag strip and AutoX so fwd cars like the SRT-4, Mini Cooper S, Celica GT-S & Focus SVT will always be cars that I'll respect as I've seen them out slalom/corner cobras, corvettes, etc. Heck, most of those cars I've mentioned are faster than my SVX! :eek: :p

dcarrb, you're absolutely correct. That's why I do my racing at the track. ;)

-Chike

I think, in a round about way, you have hit the nail on the head - "semantics". I don't believe anyone has been "debating" that most so-called "performance" cars are RWD / AWD. I believe the debate began when it was implied / stated that "FWD cars are not performance cars"- clearly an inaccurate statement / implication. It depends on the situation / track / course. In a very tight autocross course a FWD will destroy a rear wheel drive car. And even in the wet (rain) a FWD will out perform a RWD - but RWD is getting better (see next paragraph).

Many manufacturers are now "going back" to RWD in the performance arena. The reason? With advanced traction control systems, the average driver can now have the stability in rain / snow / ice with a RWD as with a FWD / AWD - at least "close to it".

Again, I believe it is quite inaccurate to make a black/white statement that FWD cars are not "performance cars". There clearly are FWD performance cars.
Harry

Nah they know better than to do that here. I dont get caught up in the immature crap. I have a fast car and i know it. Everyone around me knows it too other wise they wouldnt want to race me to begin with. The problem is many people simply dont respect subaru's. They all think, "how can it be fast when its just a subaru?" Everyone is under the misconception that Honda, Acura, Huyundai, and even some Toyotas are true sports cars. The S 200, MR2, Supra, NSX, and tiburon are fast cars. The rest in the line up for those makes are mainly family vehicles. Subaru has both a family car and performance cars. I just wish i could educate everyone outside our network about this. Seems that no one wants to believe it. No one has ever even heard of an SVX before with the exception of the guys at the auto parts stores who tell me that the SVX is an awesome car. Nobody but us seems to know what it is and thinks that the WRX is the greatest subaru ever created. I guarantee you that if an SVX and a WRX were driving down the street together....the SVX would get the looks. I try not to get involved with all the immature bull**** that goes on but I cant help but educate the ignorant. :p

That sounds like it could take a lifetime! :p

-Chike

WOW CHIKE that was amazingly fast..only took ya 6 mins! :D

I think you said it all right here.
Haters, jealousy, and attention. That's all it takes to become a target. I've had everything from large rocks to shopping carts, cigarettes and coffee thrown at my car.
I wouldn't go around acting like I was top dog, even if I was.

Yeah i agree. I dont go around acting like im top dawg even if i was. We all know we have fast stylish cars. Who cares of anyone else does. Some people dont understand why we have meets or why we have a network and things like this. To tell you the truth, without this network I would be very lost and wouldnt have gotten to talk to alot of cool people. But, for every rare care there is some sort of network and i know for a fact that BMW, Mercedes, Acura and pretty much every other car make has meets. Its only something that us enthusiasts would understand. I wouldnt expect a person driving a 92 civic with 13's on it to understand why we have meets when he/she could go next door and have a meet with his/her neighbor. Because chances are the neighbour has one too :p

the svx is a cool looking car and it attracts a lot of ladies. just not the kind of women i want to atract.:D

Speaking of FWD, does anyone hear remember which car was the first practical use of FWD in an American vehicle? See if you can get year/make/model. This actually has two answers. But I give you one, I'm not looking for the 1936 Cord. It was FWD, but the next one was a much better design and produced in some real sizable numbers. Hint, it weighed over 4200lbs!!!!

Citroen 7a was the first FWD, not sure about first on American soil...

Subaru was the first Jap FWD.

Oldsmobile Toronado?

That was going to be my guess too! They used that car in some kinda hill climb race if I remember correctly. Thing had a huge arse V8 in it and used FWD...

Car & Driver had a feature on it a couple of years ago when one editor bought one on Ebay and drove it on his honeymoon.

-Chike

Toronado, followed by the ElDorado I think. With a little shoehorning, that would make a great power plant for a Fiero - the ElDorado, I mean. ;) 500 cubic inches is almost enough.

So back to the original topic then: When somebody pulls up beside me in a riced out Honda with a giant turbo, I scoff at the idea this jackass wants to race. A drag race from 60mph only proves horsepower-to-weight ratios. If that's his cup of tea, he can go find a motorcycle to show him the meaning of good weight ratios.

I'm rather locked into the classic road racing mindset, which has never included dragging, where horsepower is not at the same premium as handling, and which is dominated by RWD cars and has been for a century. ...and with good reason I might add - not to rekindle that debate.

If this guy with his Uncle Ben's nitrous wants to try and follow me through the twistys, bring it on - otherwise I'm not interested. It's analogous to a Jeep challenging a Civic to a rock-crawling contest. An Esprit is not going to accept the challenge of a Camaro any more than I will accept the challenge of a Honda in my SVX. Does that sound too elitist? Shoot, half the reason I bought an SVX is so I could thumb my nose at other drivers. :) (The other half is so I didn't have to be one of them.)

I'm totally with you on this issue.

Zepp was correct. The 1966 Olds Toronado. It had a 425ci V-8. In 1968 is was enlarged to 455ci.