1 hp per cubic inch, the detroit first

[Chicane]

Well... the only reason I'm throwing this topic in this forum is because it sorta started here... and I googled the answer. Guess what?

You guys were right! Chevy was the FIRST to make ONE hp PER cubic inch.

However... I was also more right in this case:

http://www.roadkillontheweb.com/mycars.html

"The 1957 Chevy series only made it with the optional Fuel injection system 283 horsepower from 283 cubic inches. They also bragged that they were the first cars to ever attain this goal. And to the letter they were because the 1956 Chrysler 300 passed it! When equipped with an optional exhaust system the Chrysler 300 produced 355 horsepower from a 354 cubic inch motor. Since they went over this does allow Chevy to claim the first to reach the goal of one horsepower per cubic inch first, But on a technicality! "

Where I originally read this was Motor Trend's "Car a Day" 365 page tear away car calendar, and it's a common 'myth' that Chevy was the first to achieve this goal... well... technically, they were, but a year before they did, Mopar EXCEEDED this goal. :D

Here are some more links, just to back me up:

http://www.histomobile.com/histomob/presmark.asp?ID=35&lan=2

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/ddawley/1956_chrysler_300b_Burgundy.htm

[petesvx2]

yee haw

[lhopp77]

Think you should review how horsepower was measured back then versus now. You might be surprised that the older muscle cars were not so fantastic compared to some now.

[SVXRide]

Given all of the "accessories" hanging off of engines now, along with A/C, Power everything, yada, yada, yada - not to mention the "concerns" re: Car Insurance and advertised hp, I think today's engines are truly a reflection of current technologies. Then again, there were some borderline "race" engines in some of the '60s and '70s cars (351 Cleveland, Chysler Hemi, 427/454, etc.)
-Bill

[Chicane]

Disagree man. A 1970 hemicuda could pull 13s on those SKINNY non grippy bias ply tires. Do you realize what they'd run with some slicks?!

Woah mama.

And my first car was a 68 Charger with a modified 383.... let me tell you, I don't care HOW they measured the HP on those engines, they were FAST.

- Rob

[SVXRide]

think what the insurance would be now on an "advertised" 13 second car right off the showroom floor:D

p.s. add true slicks and what goes first....rear axles or driveshaft?
p.p.s. how many feet did it take to bring your Charger down from 100 mph? My '68 Camaro with a 350 small block and drums all around (non power) was a might scary....

[lhopp77]

And........needed an engine rebuilt after about 60K miles or less if you did very many of those 13 sec quarters.

:rolleyes:

[solarsvx]

LOL i cant stand older v8 muscle heads..

those big blocks get 3 mpg and weigh 5 tons just guessing LOL


technology these days with forced induction are amazing..

[Chicane]

My charger weighed about 2 tons.... (3800 lbs) and got 12-15mpg. Not too far from the SVXs mpg actually. It ran 13s (roughly).

A well engineered musclecar will beat the hell out of damn near any 'new' car in a drag race.... in a road course, well, there are some muslcecars that can handle.... early A-body barracudas.... older mustangs... camaros.... challengers... Cudas... all of these cars can be set up to handle. I prefer the styling of them to most new cars, and they're SO EASY TO WORK ON... but alas, I live in the rust belt.

- Rob

[solarsvx]

your old cubic muscle cars can only dream of handling like todays sports cars.

and 2ndly 300-400-500 hp range coming from 4cyl and 6cyl engines stock from the factory its called efeciency something muscle car never had.


subaru wrx sti 300 hp 4cyl
supra twin turbo 320 hp 6 cyl
300 zx twin turbo 300 hp 6 cyl

to name a few off.

actually the 285 hp 350 z is pretty damm nice for all motor 6 cylinder

where american v6 supercharg grand prix cant even come close.

ohh well im getting off topic here.

i do have to say old american muscle cars will outlast most of todays engines,

[alacrity024]

imagine 1hp per CC :D

-adam

[Chicane]

Originally posted by solarsvx
your old cubic muscle cars can only dream of handling like todays sports cars.

and bla bla bla

>sigh<

Ignorance is bliss.....

[Fyre4ce]

Originally posted by alacrity024
imagine 1hp per CC :D

-adam

F1 engines in the turbo era hit that mark, or came damn close. The 1.5L V6's in qualifying configuration were making over 1450 hp.

[alacrity024]

Originally posted by Fyre4ce


F1 engines in the turbo era hit that mark, or came damn close. The 1.5L V6's in qualifying configuration were making over 1450 hp.

WOW. F1 engines never fail to impress me..

put onenna THOSE in an SVX.. NOW we're talkin'!!

-adam :D

[Pure_Insanity8]

Originally posted by solarsvx
your old cubic muscle cars can only dream of handling like todays sports cars.

and 2ndly 300-400-500 hp range coming from 4cyl and 6cyl engines stock from the factory its called efeciency something muscle car never had.


subaru wrx sti 300 hp 4cyl
supra twin turbo 320 hp 6 cyl
300 zx twin turbo 300 hp 6 cyl

to name a few off.

actually the 285 hp 350 z is pretty damm nice for all motor 6 cylinder

where american v6 supercharg grand prix cant even come close.

ohh well im getting off topic here.

i do have to say old american muscle cars will outlast most of todays engines,

James, you're too nice of a person to be one of "those guys.":) Old muscle cars don't actually handle crappy, contrary to popular belief. They just don't feel the same (no razor sharp feeling)... when they're modded for some good handling they can be pretty fierce. I read a cool article in Car Craft magazine (great muscle car mag... with real information), they restored a '68 or so Charger I think and took it to a parking lot road course thing. Everybody else had dropped imports with coilovers and such... Charger was mostly stock and they overinflated the tires. I think they had the best time on the course or close to the best.

[Chicane]

Here's how to make a musclecar handle... in this example, I'll use a 1970-74 Cuda AAR, which was basically made for trans am road racing from the factory.

1. Lighten it. This means fiberglass fenders, carbon fiber anything, and most importantly, engine mods like aluminum heads, intake, lightweight starter, battery, etc.

2. Bigger sways

3. Stiffer suspension (off the top of my head I believe the cuda has torsion bar suspension in front and leaf springs in the rear).

4. Most importantly, a LARGER DIAMETER WHEEL with some low profile tires.


This will kick a LOT of import ass.

- Rob

[solarsvx]

one of the best handling sports cars out there hands down MR2 turbo and its afordable,, mid engine RWD what else can u ask for =>

[Chicane]

Originally posted by solarsvx
one of the best handling sports cars out there hands down MR2 turbo and its afordable,, mid engine RWD what else can u ask for =>

I'd ask for it for the ability to beat Dodge's lowly Neon in a road race.....

http://www.cnyroadrace.com/scca/results/98solo8.html

MR2s aren't all that. A NEON beat one Solar. :D

[Shadow248]

Im sick of hearing people go on and on about freakin 4-cylinders and their supposed performance!!! THAT'S ENOUGH!!!

When are today's youth going to realize that those cars have small engines for a reason...BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT MEANT TO RACE.

Also...don't give me this bull about smaller engines from Japan being more efficient. 100hp per liter...so what? The Camaro ZL-1 pulls that off on 87 octane (7.4L 825hp) and costs half as much to repair. Of course i should probably talk about cars that aren't special edition etc etc...here's an example...let's take the ever present argument about Import vs. Muscle:

320hp Camaro Z28
160hp (or something like that) Honda Civic

You can do a complete performance rebuild of the Camaro's LS-1 motor for about $2500, add exhaust and headers for $600, and a performance cam for about $100, and let's throw in a Vortec supercharger for about $2500...plus tuning time...here you are looking at a 500hp car for $5700 in mods plus relatively easy tuning time. Not to mention it's a hell of a stylish car.

Power to weight: 3550/500 = 7.1lbs/hp

For the Civic you would need a turbo kit, intercooler(s), fuel management computer, complete exhaust, new transmission and you might be looking at 300hp after a year of messing around on the dyno. All that is probably costing you about $40,000, mind you this is a $15,000 car. And remember your $55,000 Civic is still a CIVIC...not exactly a chick magnet.

Power to weight: 2600/300 = 8.7lbs/hp

Now it's not hard to guess what would happen when these two cars race...a rear wheel drive heavyweight with a suspension designed for performance vs. a front wheel drive lightweight with suspension designed for fuel economy.

Oh and one last thing...i don't want to hear anything about the civic getting better fuel mileage...ask anyone with a 4 cyl with aftermarket turbo about fuel mileage...things change alot when you do that much work to an engine.

Sorry about that but i've had enough of this import racing thing. Racing import race cars is one thing...but when they are producing all this ridiculous racing gear for cars like the civic...etc, then i think we've gone too far.

[alacrity024]

i agree to an extent.. there are cars which are designed SPECIFICALLY to be economy/transportation cars and there is NO INTENT WHATSOEVER for them to go anywhere with any amount of speed. base model civics, imprezas, neons, etc. etc. etc. none of these cars have motors designed for high-rpm/high horsepower applications. some of these cars have more "sport oriented" variants (Si, WRX, ACR/SRT4), but they're only examples of what happens when you try to stretch an economy platform towards its limits..

only a few four-cylinder cars are strictly designed with performance in mind.. some porsches (you can't tell me that a porsche, 4-cylinder or not, isn't designed to perform), s2k honda (i know their torque band sucks, but a 9k redline is not exactly economical)..

it seems like modern engines have been able to defeat detroit muscle in terms of bridging the gap between performance and economy.. but as one who has logged many hours in a '76 350 Chevy Malibu, i'll agree that nothing can come close to the sheer awesomeness of a massive V8.

as far as brute force goes, i'd have to say that the germans have picked up where the americans left off..

examples: BMW 540, Audi A8..

-adam

[SVXdriver_007]

I have a civic...awww yeah 1.6 massive litres. I don't have a problem at all wiht people modding them. and there is alot of fast ones out ther. My problem with them is that I see about 10 - 20 every day on the way to work makes you real special to have a modded civic. I like my civic because I can drive 80mph ans still get 30 to the gallon, also i don't spend money on repairs, other than that I see no reason to spend my time or money to get the car to do what alot of cars do off the showroom floor. it just isn't unique enough.
I think I'm a car enthusiast I'm sorta partial ti subaru lately but I know if they take a $hit and put the stars on it it is still $hit, and I can shine it up all I want but it is still $hit.
Who wants to help me make a GT40 kit car? now thats worth 40k.