2nd to 3rd shift RPM flare...

[CDG]

I've searched and found lots of good info, has anyone successfully administered the band adjustment proceedure?

I will not bother trying it, but I would at least like to hear that it has been done???

I will be taking in my car shortly(this week) to have the trany problem s looked at andwant to be able to explain them properly.
-City Driving the tranny in 3rd:
1-2 feels normal with a smooth shift both at easy acceleration and agressive acceleration.
2-3 feels good under aggressive acceleration(most of the time) but under easy acceleration it almost always flares up by about 1000 rpm, then shifts with a clunk.
-City Driving the tranny in D:
1-? car shifts from 1st to what appears to be a very stalled 4th gear within about 150 feet, its like it forgot to both using 2nd or 3rd???

Does this info look accurate enough for a trany guy to go from, or are there any other 4EAT details that I should note before asking for an expensive assessment?

[ensteele]

I wish I could help on that one, but I can't. :(

[svx_commuter]

I assume that you are describing manual shifts of the shift lever above?

Shifting from 1 to 4 is the tranny band adjustment. I had a very similar problem on my 91 Legacy. The external fliter was also original and clogging up. Replacing the external filter and adjusting the band corrected the problem.

I have personnal driven the SVX trans 80K miles and I think it was rebuilt 50K before I built the car. The following applies to my 92 SVX.

The flare could be from a bad TPS since it happens under light load. I rate the TPS at 100k miles, after that replace it. The TCU uses the TPS to decide when to shift. I replaced the TPS in my car and it went away.

After about 8 months it started agian. I knew it was not the TPS as that was still new. I did the band adjustment and that fixed it that time. I seldom get the flare now. :) When I do it seems to show up aftre using the cruise control for extended periods of time.

It is not your clutches because when they go, it will flare under load.

It should not be present if you pull the dropping resistor by the battery as this increases the line pressure at idle and low engine speeds. This just lets you know it's a low speed problem. Not a permanent fix as the 1-2 shift will be very rough.

I have also added another dropping resistor in series with the original. This increases the line pressure at low engine speeds.

The light load flare is a low engine speed problem which if repeated many times will wear the clutches out faster.

I hop all goes well with your look and see.:)

[kuoh]

Mine has been flaring like that for at least a couple of years now. I just learned to recognize right when it happens and quickly let off the gas so it shifts. It happens more when I'm in low speed turns as the car tries to shift between 2 and 3. If only that band adjustment screw weren't so hard to get to. :mad:

KuoH

[hotshoe50]

Hi Chris,
Sorry to hear that transmission woes have reared their ugly head so soon!!

The only thing I can contribute was after the transmission was rebuilt, before the car was delivered to back me, the shop did some band adjustments from the top of the trans over the the top of the engine.

That said, it works flawlessly and i have 2700 miles on the car since and its do to go in for a checkup tomorrow morning at AAMCO. The dealer was prohibitively expensive about anything to do with the trans so I went elsewhere.

Hotshoe aka Richard

[CDG]

Thanks for the great info, I will mention these details to the Trany guy, however I'm told he is the best in Vancouver, so he may already know what to look for.
I told him it was a 4EAT in a Suby SVX, so he changed my appointment date, he either needed more time, or wanted some-one else to look at it, not sure.

All the signs point to some adjustments and maybe a part or 2, thx.

The Extra resistor???? What did you use and how much of a difference did it make? I feel that the shifts are way to soft, I did unplug it once already for a different reason, but didn't really pay attention to the shifts, as all I was doing was freeway driving.

[laserx]

Please let me know how things work out as I have the same problem and want to have it looked at as well, regads dave

[CDG]

I spoke to the Trany tech, car will go in next Tuesday. He says he has looked about 16 SVX's and NONE of them have ever needed a new trany, thats sounds really positive, or he's feeding me a line:rolleyes:
But he has made adjustments or replaced parts on almost all of them.
The full trany flush will cost me $165CAN, plus I'm adding a cooler this weekend, may just let him hook it up.

He has only replaced Differentials in several SVX's, I'm not sure what the evidence would be if its bad, but he says he know how the 4EAT should feel, and how it differs in each car, i.e. MPV, Pathfinder, etc. So it sounds like he knows what he's doing.

I'm a little concerned about having a full trany flush, but since this Pearlie has had regular changes I should be ok? Right????:confused:

[Seraph]

From what I can tell from driving your car, I am still saying it is the tranny and not the differential. I could be wrong but I am often right in the tranny dept. (when tranny goes south without telling me).

L

ps. keep us posted

[CDG]

Thanks Lwin, I trust your judgement, I just hope your not right. crossing my fingers.

btw, I've been driving it with the resistor unplugged, and it appears to lessen the 2nd to 3rd float, but there's still a thunk when I start from a stop.

I'll let you know what the trany guys says, stay tuned.

[svx_commuter]

Originally posted by CDG
The Extra resistor???? What did you use and how much of a difference did it make?

I got the same resistor from a Legacy with both ends of the connector. This was spliced so that it could be removed and when connected is in series. There was no noticable change in the firmness of the shifts. It only seemed to help the light load flare.

I have noticed that this winter, my car is not banging into 2nd gear when it's cold out. So I guess the things I did helped out that problem.

[CDG]

I have been driving with the resistor out, and the 2nd to 3rd flare doesn't happen very often, and when it does, its not as severe. But the car is going to be checked out tomorrow. So I'll cross my fingers.

BTW, I spent 2 hours trying to get a B&M 70268 trany cooler mounted in front of the condenser, gave up and mounted it behind the condenser, infront of the rad.

Another note, when I popped the trany line off the OEM filter, there wasn't any oil poring out, but there was some in there if tipped.

I installed the cooler after the Filter. So it goes to Rad, then Filter, Then Trany cooler, then bad to the Trany..I hope.

I read at least one of the threads that Beav said using the Rad to cool first, then the trany cooler made sense to me, as the bottom of the rad will be the coldest coolant.

Oh, I'm babbling...L8r.

[CDG]

Just heard from the trany shop.........:(
I need a new trany.
Now I have to decide whether I pop in a 5 speed or rebuild, they gave me a price of $3-4kCAN(special price).

I have asked them to do a full flush anyways, he said it won't hurt, but a waste of money, if I can baby it for a few more months, I can then make a decision..:rolleyes:

[mbtoloczko]

Originally posted by CDG
Just heard from the trany shop.........:(
I need a new trany.
Now I have to decide whether I pop in a 5 speed or rebuild, they gave me a price of $3-4kCAN(special price).

I have asked them to do a full flush anyways, he said it won't hurt, but a waste of money, if I can baby it for a few more months, I can then make a decision..:rolleyes:

Get the 5 speed if anything so you don't have to worry about this happening again.

[Seraph]

Originally posted by mbtoloczko


Get the 5 speed if anything so you don't have to worry about this happening again.

The thing with 5 speed is that you will need a new clutch every so often as well. Just a thought.

I hate it when I am right about the tranny. Just never been wrong yet.

L

[svxcess]

I am speechless about this whole tranny thing! The tranny was replaced at only 65,000 miles on it/ has a new external filter and a new upgraded radiator without the screen mesh in the cooler and has had at least two complete fluid changes since then.

Doing the tranny code diagnostics both current and previous, never produced any codes at all, except a "31" for the TPS, which was replaced. I even bought another TCU to put in, since many here thought the TCU could be a cause of the small flare between 2 and 3 under light acceleration.

The tranny always shifted strongly, engaged power mode without problems, had TC lockup and in general worked as I thought it should.

I was never adverse to putting any money into the pearlie that was needed. Not having very strong mechanical skills or the availability of a garage, I always relied on my honest technicians and mechanics to tell me what was needed. No matter what they say it needed, it got it.

I feel somewhat responsible about this unforseen turn of events. Many on this site "sold" Chris on the idea of buying this car, as it was a really great deal and was exquisitely maintained. He took my, and our, word for it and flew 3000 miles to buy a car sight unseen.

If I had even the slightest inkling of impending tranny problems i would have told him long before I got here or would have never sold it to ANY member of this club. I feel I have a strong and positive standing here and would never do anything to jeopardize it, for any reason.

I am hoping for a mis-diagnosis by the tranny guy and that the situation is not as bad as claimed.

[Seraph]

Originally posted by svxcess
I was never adverse to putting any money into the pearlie that was needed. Not having very strong mechanical skills or the availability of a garage, I always relied on my honest technicians and mechanics to tell me what was needed. No matter what they say it needed, it got it.

I feel somewhat responsible about this unforseen turn of events. Many on this site "sold" Chris on the idea of buying this car, as it was a really great deal and was exquisitely maintained. He took my, and our, word for it and flew 3000 miles to buy a car sight unseen.

If I had even the slightest inkling of impending tranny problems i would have told him long before I got here or would have never sold it to ANY member of this club. I feel I have a strong and positive standing here and would never do anything to jeopardize it, for any reason.

I am hoping for a mis-diagnosis by the tranny guy and that the situation is not as bad as claimed.


John,

I don't think Chris blames you for the tranny. When he got to Chicago, I noticed the flare after I drove the pearlie. The thing is it still shifts strong and it was not skipping or doing anything weird. Just a mild flare. That is the reason why TCU has not caught the error yet.

I understand that we "told" chris that the pearlie was a good buy. I still without a doubt will say it to anyone that the Pearlie is in great shape. Also, I think Chris or anyone that buy ANY SVX should know (I think Chris already does) that a 92 SVX is STILL a 10 year old car. With a 10 year old car, it will have 10 years worth of problems. Even new cars have problems. But I can compare the pearlie to my 94 and I can tell without a doubt that that 92 pearlie is in MUCH MUCH better shape than my 94.

Anyways, just want to toss in my 2 cents.

Lwin

[mbtoloczko]

Originally posted by Seraph


The thing with 5 speed is that you will need a new clutch every so often as well. Just a thought.

I hate it when I am right about the tranny. Just never been wrong yet.

L

Yeah, I guess clutches do wear out, but I think it depends greatly on clutch disc quality and driver habits. I imagine a clutch r&r is much less expensive than another tranny.

[CDG]

I've come to the coclusion that a new trany is iminent, a temp fix may just cause me more grief.
John mentioned to me that a Re-man from Subaru has a core charge, as usual, but the core will only be accepted if it has not been tampered with. So If I try to fix something, I could loose my core charge.

[immortal_suby]

John - when I found out your svx was for sale I told Kim about it and we were both amazed. Even she agreed that it would be worth buying even if the tranny was shot or the wheel bearings all seized or the rack needed replacement - just due to the immaculate condition of the car. I even tried to get my brother in NY to buy it but it was claimed before he could. I feel bad for Chris and any svx owner that has to replace a tranny but he still got one hell of a deal anyway.
Of all the svx's I have seen at various meets I have a clear picture of yours permanently embedded in my brain. Your car is beautiful.

[wawazat??]

Originally posted by mbtoloczko


Yeah, I guess clutches do wear out, but I think it depends greatly on clutch disc quality and driver habits. I imagine a clutch r&r is much less expensive than another tranny.

I agree with you Mychalio, clutches do wear out. The rate may be accelerated by poor driving techniques. I'd much rather replace a clutch and re-surface the flywheel than an replace an entire auto trans. It would definitely be cheaper.

[CDG]

I'm still very happy with the car, I expected the trany to be replaced, I'm actually happy that I made it back to Vancouver. And the car is still in amazing condition.

I will be doing ongoing mechanical work to make this car perfect, even though it was that when I picked it up.

I don't want anybody getting the idea that I am not happy about purchasing John's Pearlie, I'm still very pleased.

Just heading to LaConnor for a meet, see some of you later.

[CDG]

I now have a plan, Dan has a way of helping me out with a spare tranny, so I will get a used trany fron Dan, and then take my apart and try to replace Pump gasket, and if I get really motivated, may look at the other components too. Now this is not a recommended option. I have only rebuilt one old Ford trany before, and it didn't work when I was done, so I will need to adhere to better practices and way more patience.

The fact is that I know Beav is right, I can feel it in my bones, but realize that no trany shop will waste their time just replacing a gasket.

And for the better of the group, I will take lots of pictures.

Oh, should I have a manual before I do this:rolleyes:

[svxistentialist]

I would say yes Chris;)

Go to www.transonline.com and order the Subaru 4 speed manual, which covers all variants of the 4EAT that we have.

From memory it is only about $15 [US], it has all the gen.

It even tells you where to put any leftover bits you find when you have it all bolted up again!:D :D

Best of luck with it.

Joe:)

[CDG]

It appears I keep getting new options every day.
I can swap in a legacy trany with the gears ready to go, then just find a rear end set, and see how it flies.

Um, this is the option to retro the car with 4.11 gear set, instead of a trany rebuild. If there is a nice little Legacy trany lying around some-one doesn't want, I'm ready to test it for you???:D

[Chicane]

Originally posted by kuoh
Mine has been flaring like that for at least a couple of years now. I just learned to recognize right when it happens and quickly let off the gas so it shifts. It happens more when I'm in low speed turns as the car tries to shift between 2 and 3. If only that band adjustment screw weren't so hard to get to. :mad:

KuoH

ditto. Only more like since I bought the car.... just let off the gas, see how long the sucker lasts.

>knocks on wood<

[H6'er]

Did the mechanic try the band adjustment?

If not, you COULD line up an assortment of the right sized wrenches.....regular combo, flare, ignition etc. and take a DEEP breath. Give yourself an hour or so, might have to loosen nut with one wrench and turn it with another (all while making sure bolt is not getting too loose:( ). Put a turn on the bolt, snug the nut and test...might fix it with one turn, maybe two, maybe not at all.......still, MIGHT be all it needs. Gotta be worth the investment of time and a few odd wrenches.

Did this 3k ago, along with unplugging the resistor....could not believe the difference, NEVER flares the shift anymore.:)

[CDG]

I have disconnected the resistor, made a big difference.
The Tech would not touch the car as he did not want to make it worse. He did explain that the band adjustment would make sense if the problem was consistent, however I gave it to him with the resistor plugged in, therefore the problem was very bad, but still intermitent.

I may try the band adjustment when the weather warms ups, maybe this weekend.( we only get nice weather when we want it, ya right)
I'm also getting a 2-3 second delay when I put it into gear, that is another sign of low preasure, so If I fix the low preasure, all my problems should go away(fingers crossed)

The band and the pump gasket would inevitably be related, adjusting the band to me is like masking the problem. But I will give it a try. Don't I have to do this from underneath the car? I saw a picture somewhere???

Oh, is there only one adjustment screw for all bands? or one for 2-3...Its around here somewhere, I know there are at least 20 descriptions of how the trany works, I've read them all, but its always a mystery when I start to think about it:rolleyes:

[CDG]

I've installed the rebuilt trany from Elninoalex, and the car is completely different.
the shifts are very firm, at least 1-2, 2-3 still lags a little when I let off on the gas, but there is almost no slip. The car a has a much better rpm/speed ratio...better power transfer feel.

I'm very Happy, thanks Elninoalex.