engine cuts out when starting and while driving at any and every speed!

[rsmcgaugh]

This is to expound on my earlier thread regarding my engine cut off problem. Just to recap, I have a 1992 Subaru SVX-LSL. The engine cuts off while I am driving. The cut offs happen at low speeds, at high speeds and sometimes when I start the car, particularly if I've already driven the car and the engine is still warm. In the latter instance, the check engine light will come on and stay on until it dies as I try to drive away. as soon as it starts up without the check engine light coming on, I will then be able to drive away without the engine cutting off. However, it may die again at anytime and at any speed without warning. I've taken it to the dealer three times and the local repair shop twice and neither can find anything wrong except for a bad solenoid on the transmission, which they said can be fixed for about $2,000, however, they won't guarantee that that will fix the problem. As a matter of fact, the local repair shop doesn't think that the solenoid replacement is the problem and recommends not to fix the solenoid until the engine cutting off problem is fixed. I sought advice from you guys before with no real response, but I am trying this again. I also notice that when I first start the car the power light blinks several times before it goes out. Does this mean anything?

[Boone]

The blinking power light means the TCU has stored a failure code. Check the how-to locker to decode the problem with your transmission. As for the cutting out, I've seen this happen when there is a bad connection at the alternator or it's ground. B.

[lee]

Boone talked about the tranny. I agree with the dealer that a bad transmission solenoid will not likely fix an engine cut-out problem.

Did the dealer tell you about any stored trouble codes from the check engine light coming on? Are there other symptoms when it happens? Does all the dash lights come on like they would be before the engine starts up, or do they go blank? Can it be immediately restarted? How does it run just before it dies, and when you get it running again is it OK then? Have you checked obvious things like the major ground points? I'm wondering if one (or more) of the major sensors has a wiring issue. Can you check conections of the O2 sensors, the throttle position sensor, etc. - just disconnect, examine the connecter for serious corrosion and reconnect. Might even reach up under the dash and see if the connectors to the ECU are secure. Do you know if any electrical work was recently done? When the last time the air & fuel filter were changed?

[rsmcgaugh]

Yes, the dealer told me about the solenoid problem as a stored code and stated that there were no other stored codes as did the local repair shop. Additionally, both the dealer and the repair shop stated that the car would not shut off on them after numerous road tests, which I find amazing as it has no trouble shutting off on me almost each time I drive it. There are no other symptoms when the engine cuts off. All of the dash lights come on after a cut off. It starts immediately every time, however, when the check engine light stays on, the engine when die when you put it in drive. If it starts without the check engine light coming on, then it will stay started when you put it in drive, however, it may die again at any time and at any speed. Please note that it runs fine just before dying and gives no warning that it is about to cut off, hoever, occasionally, the engine will lose power and then regain power without cutting off. I haven't checked anything, however, my brother checked all of the connections after I got it back from the dealer, who purportedly gave it the $600 tune up and maintenance check. Electrical work was done at least a year ago when some of the control buttons stopped working. After the electrical work, all of the control buttons worked again, however, a few of the leds on the control buttons did not work. The air and the fuel filter were recently changed for the umpteenth time. Someone stated that the cause may be a bad airflow sensor. When I explained this to the repair shop, he said it is possible, however, he would not reccommend changing it until they found the cause of the cutting off.

[lee]

I'm sorry, but you seem to have one of the worst type problems to track down - an intermitent problem with no tell-tale clues. If they kept a record of any trouble codes that might help you get started - do you know what they were besides the solenoid?

If it was me (do you have the wiring diagrams - do you have the time/inclination?), I'd start taking off all the ground point connectors and cleaning them and then reattaching. I'm not good enough to diagnose intermitents remotely, but I would say an majority of these type problems I have seen were all traced to a bad ground somewhere in the system. You've undoubtedly seen a corroded battery terminal. Well, the other ends of wires can do the same and effectively ruin the ground point.

[vkykam]

If the check engine light has come on at any point, the code would be stored in the ECU for sure. I would suggest leaving the TCU code for now, and work on locating the engine problem first. I think with a code, it'll be far easier to find the problem.

Also, I would recommend disconnect the battery overnight to reset all previous code to eliminiate any potential confusion. This way, when the CE light comes on again, you know exactly the code that is generated.

Here's the code retrieval instructions, plucked from a previous thread:

To retrieve codes:

1) Remove the kick panel just beside the left foot rest on the driver's side.
2) Locate blue wires.
3) Locate black connector. Hold it notch up.
4) With ignition off, insert one of the wires into top row, 2nd pin from left.
5) Turn key to on position, but do not start the car.
6) Watch blinky check engine light on dashboard. Count blinks. Long blinks = 10, Short blinks = 1.
7) Keep watching blinky light until you get mesmorized.

To clear codes (after problem has been resolved):

1) With engine off, stick the blue wires to 1st and 2nd pin in the top row counting from left on the black connector, with notch facing up.
2) Start car. Shut off car. Remove pins.
3) Read codes to make sure they are clear. No codes = steady blinks at 1/4 second intervals.

CODE PROBABLE CAUSE
11 Crank Angle Sensor or Circuit
12 Starter Switch or Circuit
13 Cam Position Sensor or Circuit (TDC Sensor on Justy)
14 Fuel Injector No. 1 (Legacy, Impreza, Justy, SVX)
14 Fuel Injector No. 1 and 2 (XT, Loyale, GL, DL)
15 Fuel Injector No. 2 (Legacy, Impreza, Justy, SVX)
15 Fuel Injector No. 3 and 4 (Loyale, GL, DL)
15 Fuel Injector No. 5 and 6 (XT-6)
16 Fuel Injector No. 3 (Legacy, Impreza, Justy, SVX)
16 Fuel Injector No. 3 and 4 (XT)
17 Fuel Injector No. 4 (Legacy, Impreza, SVX)
17 Fuel injector No. 1 and 2 (XT-6)
18 Fuel Injector No. 5 (SVX)
19 Fuel Injector No. 6 (SVX)
21 Coolant Temperature Sensor or Circuit
22 Knock Sensor or Circuit (Right Side on SVX)
23 Air Flow Meter or Circuit (Exc. Justy)
23 Pressure Sensor (Justy)
24 Air Control Valve or Circuit (Exc. Justy)
24 Idle Speed Control Solenoid Valve (Justy)
25 Fuel injector No. 3 and 4 (XT-6)
26 Air Temperature Sensor (Justy)
28 Knock Sensor No. 2 (SVX, Left Side)
29 Crank Angle Sensor (SVX, No. 2)
31 Throttle Position Sensor or Circuit
32 Oxygen Sensor or Circuit (No. 1, Right Side, On SVX)
33 Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) or Circuit
34 EGR Solenoid or Circuit
35 Purge Control Solenoid or Circuit
36 Air Suction Solenoid Valve (Impreza)
36 Ignitor Circuit (Justy)
37 Oxygen Sensor (No. 2, Left Side, On SVX)
38 Engine Torque Control (SVX)
41 Air/Fuel Adaptive Control
42 Idle Switch or Circuit
43 Throttle Switch (Justy)
44 Wastegate Duty Solenoid (Turbo Models)
45 Pressure Sensor Duty Solenoid (Turbo Models)
45 Atmospheric Pressure Sensor or Circuit (Non- Turbo Models) 49
Airflow Sensor
51 Neutral Switch (Manual Transmission Models)
51 Inhibitor Switch (Automatic Transmission Models)
52 Parking Brake Switch (Exc. Justy)
52 Clutch Switch (Justy)
55 EGR Temperature Sensor or Circuit
56 EGR System
61 Parking Brake Switch (Loyale)
61 Fuel Tank Pressure Control Solenoid (Impreza)
62 Fuel Temperature Sensor (Impreza)
62 Electric Load Signal (Justy)
63 Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor (Impreza)
63 Blower Fan Switch (Justy)
65 Vacuum Pressure Sensor

[Lasher]

OK, I'm having the same exact problem here with my car... I performed the ignition self-diagnosis, and the car reported #23, "air flow meter or circuit."

rsmcgaugh, we will fix this together.. hopefully with the help of our our precious forum-members...

I had a "mechanic" (some dude I met at work that seemed to know what he was talking about) check out one of the air flow sensors..

let's get something straight real quick.. the Chilton Subaru book refers to the electrical unit next to the air filter as an air flow meter... I have been told by several "car guys" that this unit is the "master air flow sensor"... now the part that my "mechanic" checked out was towards the rear of the combustion chamber; another air flow sensor, apparently.. (Not sure what the Chilton book refers to this as)

Anyway, he told me that the inside of this part should not be able to be moved (rotated) by hand, but he did just that.. So he is telling me that this part should be replaced... I called several auto part stores and not a single one stocked this part, nor could they even order it...

So that's where I am today......

LET'S FIGURE THIS OUT!!

[Beav]

Lasher - You and/or your friends are confused. If you are relaying their exact words do not allow them near your car again.

rsmc' - You need to check the code(s) yourself and post what you find. I'm particularly interested in the transmission code(s). It could be that it's a code for the torque convertor lock-up solenoid. This could cause stalling when the car is idling or near idle, as it can produce an effect similar to not pushing the clutch in on a manual transmission car. I'm having difficulty believing the transmission error(s) are the cause of stalling, however.

The high speed cut-out is another story, it's doubtful that the transmission could be the culprit for this. If the car is starting immediately after stalling I'd rule out the fuel pump and filter, the engine is normally difficult to restart quickly after a fuel pump related shut-down. Given the facts that a) an engine requires air, fuel and spark to operate and b) the fuel pump was just given a 'probably o.k.' , I'd concentrate on the controls. (by 'air' I'm referring to the basic integrity of the mechanical portion of the engine - generally as long as the engine runs well until it stalls it can be assumed to be o.k. as well.)

I use the term 'controls' as on an electronically-controlled car the fuel portion is controlled in much the same way the spark portion is. Once the fuel arrives at the injectors the electronic controls come into play, especially if the engine is stalling and not just missing, surging, bucking, etc. Every car (make/model) responds to failing sensors in different ways. Some cars can tolerate failing sensors without stalling, some can't, some can work with certain sensors failing but not others. Early GMs will wig-out on a bad cooling sensor. A lot of Mitsubishis go to pieces over bad MAFs. It depends on the circuitry and the programming. However most can make do with disconnected sensors by going into 'limp home' otherwise known as 'open loop'. The computer substitutes programmed values in place of what a sensor would normally be 'telling' it, thereby allowing it to continue running. Not running perfectly, but running nonetheless.

As Lee said there could be a bad ground(s). There could also be bad power feed(s) just as easily. A failing power relay, a dying ignition switch or any of a multitude of items could be the cause. Generally when a check engine light comes on a code will be stored, but not always. The best thing you might do to help at this point might be for you to become familiar and adept at retrieving codes from the ECU. My thinking is that when the car stalls and the check engine light is on you need to try to retrieve any codes at that point, without turning the ignition switch off, if possible. It seems that might be your best bet at this point.

I know how frustrating this can be, I deal with it quite often in my job. Intermittent problems suck, undoubtedly. It's even more difficult to diagnose them over the web. Hopefully you'll find something in here to help track down the problem, or at least narrow the field. Keep up with it and report back whatever/whenever you come up with something.

[kuoh]

I'm not sure what rotating part your mechanic is referring to, unless he is talking about the throttle cable assembly, in which case, he either has no idea what he's doing or is trying to rip you off.

Beav touched on this in his message, but you might want to check or clean the MAF sensor and connector, which is the air flow meter that the Chilton's manual is referring to. I know that a disconnected MAF sensor can cause the engine to run rough or stall. Perhaps one of these times when the engine is running badly you can try disconnecting and reconnecting the MAF sensor and see if it has any effect?

KuoH

Originally posted by Lasher
let's get something straight real quick.. the Chilton Subaru book refers to the electrical unit next to the air filter as an air flow meter... I have been told by several "car guys" that this unit is the "master air flow sensor"... now the part that my "mechanic" checked out was towards the rear of the combustion chamber; another air flow sensor, apparently.. (Not sure what the Chilton book refers to this as)

[Gabriel]

Hi everyone. I thought i should add my similar experiences to this thread. I have a 1992 SVX LsL touring, which I have owned since last November.

It has one major issue: The engine will cut out without warning, whether it is idling in neutral, or in POWER mode on a freeway onramp. AND in every possible situation in between these extremes.

Precisely what happens is the following: The transmission disengages (the car starts coasting) and the rev counter needle starts to drop to zero. Sometimes the transmission will re-engage at the last second with a thud and the car will continue to run. But usually, the rev needle falls all the way to zero, and ALL the dash lights come on. The steering becomes impossibly heavy, as the car is effectively off. The engine simply stops, there is no coughing or spluttering or vibration beforehand.

To get going again, I have to slap the shifter to neutral, turn the key off- and then on again after a second- the car always starts first time. Then i can put it in drive, and i have power again.

Sometimes, when i see the rev needle starting to sink to zero, I try to fight with the transmission by stabbing at the gas pedal in an ettempt to make the transmission kick back into life. Sometimes this works, and it reconnects with a jerk, but usually this action merely prolongs the coasting period before all the dash lights come on.

This problem used to occur about once a week, a few months ago. Now it happens about 5 times a day.

I took it to a car place here in Santa Barbara, but on their test drive they were unable to replicate the problem. They fixed a ground cable in the computer, but the problem still occurs, now with even more frequency.

I have seen the power light flash on occasion when I restarted the car after it cut out. But the service staff said that there were no codes stored in either engine or transmission when i had the car serviced.

I have also seen the check engine light flash during this problem, but only on one occasion, when i tried particularly hard with the gas pedal to stop the problem from occurring.

The problem is more likely to occur when driving from cold.

Anyone have any ideas?

[mattski]

A similar scenario happened to me once afer my wife had driven the car and disengaged the alarm. When I started driving it, I noticed that the switch was off, so I turned it on and the engine died. It re-started immediately and I have had no problems since.

So I wonder if this is alarm related.

Matt

[vkykam]

Gabriel,

If you're driving a 92, try pulling the ECU codes yourself. Not to say I don't trust dealers, but if you've seen the check engine light come on, the code should be stored, if even for a split second. If it doesn't, then there could be a problem with the ECU itself.

As for your problem, a replacement of the MAF solved it for me. Symptoms were very similar, however, mine only acted up when the engine was warm or hot. It was worst after driving for distances and then coming to a stop (i.e. getting off the freeway).

If you can find a used MAF from the junkers, it may be a good idea to buy and and swap it in to see. If it doesn't work, I'm sure one of us around here will need a MAF at some point... :D

VK

Originally posted by Gabriel
Hi everyone. I thought i should add my similar experiences to this thread. I have a 1992 SVX LsL touring, which I have owned since last November.

It has one major issue: The engine will cut out without warning, whether it is idling in neutral, or in POWER mode on a freeway onramp. AND in every possible situation in between these extremes.

Precisely what happens is the following: The transmission disengages (the car starts coasting) and the rev counter needle starts to drop to zero. Sometimes the transmission will re-engage at the last second with a thud and the car will continue to run. But usually, the rev needle falls all the way to zero, and ALL the dash lights come on. The steering becomes impossibly heavy, as the car is effectively off. The engine simply stops, there is no coughing or spluttering or vibration beforehand.

To get going again, I have to slap the shifter to neutral, turn the key off- and then on again after a second- the car always starts first time. Then i can put it in drive, and i have power again.

Sometimes, when i see the rev needle starting to sink to zero, I try to fight with the transmission by stabbing at the gas pedal in an ettempt to make the transmission kick back into life. Sometimes this works, and it reconnects with a jerk, but usually this action merely prolongs the coasting period before all the dash lights come on.

This problem used to occur about once a week, a few months ago. Now it happens about 5 times a day.

I took it to a car place here in Santa Barbara, but on their test drive they were unable to replicate the problem. They fixed a ground cable in the computer, but the problem still occurs, now with even more frequency.

I have seen the power light flash on occasion when I restarted the car after it cut out. But the service staff said that there were no codes stored in either engine or transmission when i had the car serviced.

I have also seen the check engine light flash during this problem, but only on one occasion, when i tried particularly hard with the gas pedal to stop the problem from occurring.

The problem is more likely to occur when driving from cold.

Anyone have any ideas?

[svx_commuter]

Isn't there a switch connected to the gear selector in the console that prevenets the engine from starting in Park? Can this switch be the cause of the trouble?

[kuoh]

There is a stock starter-kill circuit that prevents the starter from engaging in any drive gear, but it would not interrupt the ignition if already running. It is possible to install ignition-kill (anti-hijack) systems that could interrupt the ignition if there was a wiring or component failure, but this would likely be installed in combination with an aftermarket alarm system. If you have a stock system, then this would be a very unlikely cause.

KuoH

[Lasher]

this is incredibly agitating....

[Lasher]

fresh codes, from today...

starter switch or circuit
air flow meter or circuit (still, of course)
EGR solenoid or circuit
and finally, throttle sensor

I experienced that 'dying after the highway' mentioned above today, as well.

ALSO, it just seemed to be running poorly today; little power, weak responsiveness, coasting...

and this... <shudder> Was on the highway, and hit the gas pretty hard (hard enough to go into power mod), and instead of the nice, usual umph, my precious stuttered.... sort of a pulsing acceleration.. vroom/coast/vroom/coast/vroom/coast... maybe about half a second of vroom, then it nothing for another half a second, then again, etc...

thissux...

~Nick

[vkykam]

Lasher,

At least you get a MAF fault code (code 23). I struggled with my problems without a single code.

For the $50-75 for a used one, it's not a bad trial and error. If it doesn't work out, you could always resell it...

If the MAF is at fault, you're probably suffering at least a 10% decrease in mileage as well...

Good luck.

VK

[Gabriel]

hey Lasher,

your symptoms as you just described them today, are EXACTLY what i have been experiencing....

Gabe

[Lasher]

Ok, so there are at least three of us with (most likely) the same problem, currently. We should really keep in touch on this. The knowledge of those experienced enough to offer advice here is an incredible resource, but, of course, will not fix our cars...

that being said..

My next step is to attempt to track down the MAF... No single auto parts store on the planet seems to stock, or even know where to find this item.. and that means dealer... and that means $$$$$
I would love to find a used somewhere, perhaps from a parts-car, or a junkyard, but I am having incredible difficulty finding such a car. Methinks I'll begin a new thread on the subject.

thisstillsux...

~Nick

[vkykam]

http://www.car-part.com

Don't y'all fight over the same part now... :D

Good luck.

VK

[jsvxstyle]

Originally posted by Lasher
Ok, so there are at least three of us with (most likely) the same problem, currently. We should really keep in touch on this. The knowledge of those experienced enough to offer advice here is an incredible resource, but, of course, will not fix our cars...

that being said..

My next step is to attempt to track down the MAF... No single auto parts store on the planet seems to stock, or even know where to find this item.. and that means dealer... and that means $$$$$
I would love to find a used somewhere, perhaps from a parts-car, or a junkyard, but I am having incredible difficulty finding such a car. Methinks I'll begin a new thread on the subject.

thisstillsux...

~Nick
exsplan what exsactly happens to your car, how it reacts, if you need a air flow meter, i have one or can get new much cheaper that the dealer whats. its o.e.

[alia176]

Hey guys,

I just started to read this thread with high interest since I have a '92 that **used** to have this problem. Sounds like you guys are on the right track to a cure but I thought I add my experience here for what it's worth. My memory is a little sketchy since this hasn't happened for some time. At the time my alternator was bad & the mysterious stalling would take place on occasion. Perhaps this is a coincidence but this problem hasn't resurfaced since the new alternator went in.

If someone on this list happen to have an extra MAF to lend out, perhaps it can be mailed around to other problem owners to aid in the process of elimination of this pesky problem.

Just my .02 cents.

[Earthworm]

Possibly even the battery as well. I have a battery that will work fine for a couple days then barely starts the car at all. It's rated at 875CCA but when tested only reported 350CCA. It was throwing about 6 engine codes as well.

[Boone]

Hmm.. Clean/tighten the connections at the alternator. ;)

[Clydesvx]

My similar cut off problems were solved when I replaced the MAF sensor. I got mine from subaruparts.com. It was about $100 cheaper than the dealer.

[Lasher]

jsvxstyle- my symptoms are best described in Gabriel's post.
I'm not sure if it is the MAF I need, though, judging by the responses we've had, I believe it is.. especially since I got that code from the ignition diagnostic.

anybody/everybody that has had this problem in the past-- Would the MAF cause my transmission to shift poorly?? (IHOPEIHOPEIHOPE) Shifting in low gears, my svx has been revving/coasting. I'm very concerned.

If, in fact, the MAF is bad, I would love to get my hands on one in any way possible.. though I am broke as a joke. I rather liked Alia's idea to mail one around for testing purposes. If anybody would be willing to lend one for this purpose, I'm sure we would all greatly appreciate it; I know I would. Perhaps we could come up with a fair reimbursement for this.

If, in fact, the MAF is not my only problem, and the transmission is actually going bad... I'll be forced to shoot the car and buy a nice schwinn or something. I would love to part it out for everybody, but I doubt I could afford not to sell it. Anybody know somewhere I can get some parts/service financed? Or on some sort of payment plan? HAH!

Best case scenario: MAF is bad, I can replace it inexpensively, I can get to fixing the exterior before somebody sees my precious and posts a picture of what horrid shape it is in.

~Nick: using his day off to avoid driving his SVX...

:(

[Gabriel]

hey, i saw someone mention the alternator- i was kinda concerned about mine anyway, quite apart from the cutting out problem.

If the car is idling with the lights on at night, and i rev it, sometimes they get brighter. Might this suggest the alternator is involved in the cutting out? Perhaps the ignition isnt getting a constant power/current feed during driving.

I don't think there is a battery problem, I just had a new Diehard Gold put in.

Gabe

[vkykam]

Gabe,

Take a voltmeter and measure the voltage at the cigarette socket at idle and at, say, 2500RPM, and report back here. :) That won't rule in or out the alternator, but would give you an idea whether there's a problem with the electrical system or not. But I would doubt the electrical system causing your cutting out issue; if it did you'd loose all power (including the lights on the dash, and radio, etc.) instead of the engine just starting to stall out.

Lasher,

Could you describe your shifting problem in more detail?

BTW, there's another thread where another member says a 95 Impreza MAF is a good substitute for our MAF's.

VK

[Lasher]

Well, the shifting problem doesn't seem too serious.. I hope.
When shifting up from 1st to 2nd, and especially from 2nd to 3rd, she seems to hesitate... the rpms go up, obviously in response to the gas which is being applied; but the car coasts, as though I had slipped it into to neutral for a second or two.

I read tonight, on a web-site belonging to one of our members.. (who's was that; sorry to forget) that there is an adjusment on a particular bolt which can be made, which might remedy this, so I plan on trying that soon.

I apologize for being so vague, but I only skimmed over the web site once, and that was a few hours ago.

I might add that I drove my precious down the street earlier, to grab some food, and she didn't seem to be shifting improperly... I'm hoping that the trouble is solely related to the air flow meter (which I intend to grab off an Impreza soon, if I can't find a true SVX MAF at a decent price).

:rolleyes: :cool: :rolleyes:

[kuoh]

It's called the brake band and that screw isn't easy to get to from what I've read. Mine does the same thing, especially in slow sweeping turns, like coming down an offramp and turning on to a side street without stopping.

KuoH

Originally posted by Lasher
Well, the shifting problem doesn't seem too serious.. I hope.
When shifting up from 1st to 2nd, and especially from 2nd to 3rd, she seems to hesitate... the rpms go up, obviously in response to the gas which is being applied; but the car coasts, as though I had slipped it into to neutral for a second or two.

I read tonight, on a web-site belonging to one of our members.. (who's was that; sorry to forget) that there is an adjusment on a particular bolt which can be made, which might remedy this, so I plan on trying that soon.

[earthkin]

I have pretty much the same problem with my '92 LSL. I have error codes 23, 24, & 28, which doesn't narrow it down enough really, since these could be the "Air Flow Sensor," "Bypass Air Control Solenoid Valve," or the "Knock Sensor 2 (LH)." I took it into the local Subaru mechanic (S-Wings), where they read & cleared the codes, but the codes didn't come back at that time, so we didn't do anything. Since then, the codes have come back (it has died many many times). S-Wings said they have seen problems with a faulty Knock Sensor causing similar problems. Has anyone else seen this with the Knock Sensor?

The dying happens randomly: at medium revs, low revs, when starting, when idling, when cold, when warm: basically, anytime. It originally wasn't running rough, but as the problem has been getting worse, it seems to run rougher. Also, sometimes it barely runs, has little power, and then dies. On the alternator possibility: I have noticed my lights dimming sometimes when my turn signal is on, but nothing else. The battery is something around 750cca (yes, I bought a big one) and is fairly new (around 6 months). About all I've done is run 1/2 tank of Fuel Injector cleaner treated gas through it, and drove it about 5 miles with Octane boost, since I was having trouble getting it home the last time. None of this seems to have made any difference.

[vkykam]

Code 24 is the IAC, and can cause low idle problems. Code 23 is the MAF, and can affect it at all ranges.

The knock sensor wouldn't cause the engine to cut out as you have described.

I know I'm repeating myself here, but try the MAF first. There was advice from another thread that a MAF from an Impreza would work as well, so it should help in hunting one down at a reasonable price from the wreckers.

Good luck.

VK


Originally posted by earthkin
I have pretty much the same problem with my '92 LSL. I have error codes 23, 24, & 28, which doesn't narrow it down enough really, since these could be the "Air Flow Sensor," "Bypass Air Control Solenoid Valve," or the "Knock Sensor 2 (LH)." I took it into the local Subaru mechanic (S-Wings), where they read & cleared the codes, but the codes didn't come back at that time, so we didn't do anything. Since then, the codes have come back (it has died many many times). S-Wings said they have seen problems with a faulty Knock Sensor causing similar problems. Has anyone else seen this with the Knock Sensor?

The dying happens randomly: at medium revs, low revs, when starting, when idling, when cold, when warm: basically, anytime. It originally wasn't running rough, but as the problem has been getting worse, it seems to run rougher. Also, sometimes it barely runs, has little power, and then dies. On the alternator possibility: I have noticed my lights dimming sometimes when my turn signal is on, but nothing else. The battery is something around 750cca (yes, I bought a big one) and is fairly new (around 6 months). About all I've done is run 1/2 tank of Fuel Injector cleaner treated gas through it, and drove it about 5 miles with Octane boost, since I was having trouble getting it home the last time. None of this seems to have made any difference.

[Lasher]

Would the Idle Air Control unit possibly cause my SVX to shift poorly at low rpms? Cause that is what she seems to be doing. I went and cleaned my MAF as well as the Throttle Body, and the dying has decreased in frequency, but shifing is poor.. As I described before, going from 1st to 2nd, and more so from 2nd to 3rd, the rpms will jump up and the car will act as though I had slipped her into neutral for a few seconds before the rpms drop and the next gear catches) This only seems to happen at low speeds/low rpms (when I have only depressed the accelerator pedal lightly). When I use more gas from 1st gear, she shifts fine, if not a little less smoothly than I would like. Could this be related to the IAC? Any other ideas? Would a simple transmission rebuild be the only solution? If so, I'll have to shoot the car through the hood. :)

[vkykam]

If your RPMs are "flaring up" in between shifts, I'm afraid that's not good news.

You could cross your fingers and change your tranny fluid, but it may end up being the transmission.

VK

[njboys808]

I've been having the same problem as many of you guys. It started about 6 months back and only did it once in a blue moon. Then once a day. Now everytime I drive some where I have to restart the car about 10 times. Dealer said it was a coil and charged me 420.00 to change 1 and all the plugs. No Good! Then they said it was the fuel pump. Well I learned my lesson and ordered it and installed it myself. Still no good! Now heres where it gets tricky. I did see no fuel pressure when we tested the line before I replaced the pump. But changing the pump didn't help so is there a control module or relay for the pump that could be bad? According to Subaru Parts there is. But I have no idea where it is? I'm going to try the MAF solution first since I found a used one for 75.00 . Wish me luck! I Also tried pulling the codes from the ECU accrding to the instructions I found here but got no reaction so I think I must be doing it wrong. Could someone send a picture of the diagnostic plug with the wire inserted into the correct hole for newbies like me?

[Clydesvx]

It's probably the Mass Air Flow Sensor. It's the thing in your air intake. According to my Subaru guy it only shows up on the diagnostic computer if it is hooked up when it fails. I got mine from SUBARUPARTS.COM. I saved about $100 on the part and installed it myself. My failure wasn't as often as yours but the symptoms were the same. Riding down the road the engine would die. A slip into neutral and a turn of the key and I was up and running until the next failure!!!

No problems (knock on wood) since the MAF sensor was installed.

Just to be sure, why not WD-40 the MAF sensor connector and reconnect. Maybe someone loosend the connector when they were playing with the coil or plugs.

Clydesvx

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by Lasher
Would the Idle Air Control unit possibly cause my SVX to shift poorly at low rpms? Cause that is what she seems to be doing. I went and cleaned my MAF as well as the Throttle Body, and the dying has decreased in frequency, but shifing is poor.. As I described before, going from 1st to 2nd, and more so from 2nd to 3rd, the rpms will jump up and the car will act as though I had slipped her into neutral for a few seconds before the rpms drop and the next gear catches) This only seems to happen at low speeds/low rpms (when I have only depressed the accelerator pedal lightly). When I use more gas from 1st gear, she shifts fine, if not a little less smoothly than I would like. Could this be related to the IAC? Any other ideas? Would a simple transmission rebuild be the only solution? If so, I'll have to shoot the car through the hood. :)

As VK says above, Lasher, this is not good news, particularly if it is caused by the tranny slipping.

However, another avenue to check first which is cheaper would be the TPS, the Throttle Position Sensor. This is a potentiometer, and the rate at which it changes voltage from 0 to 5 tells the TCU how and when to shift. It can go faulty, give signals difficult to interpret, and will give the revving you describe at low speeds. You should check this out first. A new one costs about
$150 from Subaru.com. Remember, if it is the TPS and you do not fix it, the continual revving will be slipping and wearing the tranny clutches.

Joe:)

[njboys808]

Well as some of you may know I was having an awful time with my SVX cutting off. I tried replacing the fuel pump and ingnition coils and spark plugs with no help. Finally after reading these posts I ordered an Airflow meter and sure enough the problem went away.

[Gabriel]

hmm well this thread has moved along a bit since i last posted... seems unanimous decision is to change the MAF. Did you get one yet Lasher?

However, at first I think I will just clean and tighten the alternator connections, to see if that helps.

My revs do flare a little between changes in the lower gears, though I hope this does not mean the transmission is in trouble. It was only rebuilt 25k or so ago.

I had considered there was a problem with the TPS, but I think there is something over-riding the throttle when the car cuts out. I think this, because the POWER mode light still comes on when i pump the accelerator during the cutting out process (as described in my previous post). So the car still knows i stamped on the gas, but something else prevents the engine revs from increasing.

Another thing, when the car is cutting out, it doesn't 'coast' as i previously described it. It is more like I simply took my foot off the gas completely. It is not that the tranmission is disconnected, like driving a stick-shift with the clutch in. There is noticeable engine braking just before the engine dies, if the cutting out process occurs in second gear.

If the pre-cutting-out 'throttle death' happens on the freeway with cruise control set to 80mph, the car will start to slow down from 80, and to compensate, the cruise computer presses the accelerator hard to the floor. (Usually to no avail.)

gabe

[earthkin]

I replaced the MAF with a used one, and am declaring victory. (This is the 2nd SVX with the same symptoms that the MAF fixed, by my count.) I bought a used Air Flow Sensor from a parts place that I found on Car-Part.com (details below), it was only $40 + $10 shipping. Only problem was I had to buy it COD (used a money order from the Post Office) since they didn't take plastic. Too bad all SVX problems aren't this cheap & easy to fix...

Part name: Air Flow Meter
Web Portal: Car-Part.com: Used Auto Parts Market, http://www.car-part.com
Vendor: All Foreign Auto Parts
My experience with them: delivered in a few days. Part was dusty, but cleaned up easily, and works. Hey, at roughly 20% cost of a new part, a great deal.
Tip: look for an ad that says "Tested"
Part Number: 22680
... yes, they have more available.
:D

[kpcusa]

Hey, guys,

I am experiencing the very same problems reported in this thread. Twice I have gone to the dealer (who has a mechanic with 22 years of Subaru experience working on the car) to find the source of and resolution to the problem. The engine quits when accelerating rapidly, decelerating rapidly, in nromal traffic or when idling (basically anytime). It will also "buck" at times when on the highway. The dealer has been able to replicate the symptoms but no check engine light appears; hence no stored codes. The dealer pulled the codes prior the last visit but none were stored.

I had them replace the fuel filter just to rule it out this last time around. They also swapped out the MAF from a '92 in the shop at the time (for a power steering pump) and the stalling still occurred (the owner of the '92 has no such problems I am told).

The car has a new fuel pump and filter, power steering pump and timing belt.

It's a smooth runner with the exception of the occasional stalling or bucking. It will idle below 1,000 frequently and just stall out.

Any input would be GREATLY appreciated.

Ken

[kpcusa]

Finally fixed!

A $45 MAF air flow meter (used plus $10 S&H from Weber Bros. Auto in PA) was all it needed - it runs like a champ now.

I see a lot of rough running and stalling issues that can be traced to this sensor.

[Gabriel]

It's great that everyone reporting the same problem has had such high success rates with replacing the MAF. A real success of this website.

I am ordering my MAF today from a salvage yard, and i see from my service manuals, that the MAF sits rather conveniently atop the engine - when i get the used MAF in the mail, are there any complications with installing it myself???

I don't have much mechanical experience... but williing to try! Feedback appreciated before I get my hands dirty...

Gabriel

[kpcusa]

Gabriel:

It is a snap, de-installing my old mass airflow sensor and replacing the new one took me maybe 20 minutes. If you are all thumbs and not at all mechanically inclined it may take an half hour; maybe an hour. It's not a complex procedure.

I suggest you go to http://www.geocities.com/kuleshoff/MAF.htm and review the SVX instructions prior to your install.

Good luck.

Ken