Condensation in tail lights...

[YellowBird]

I'm not sure if this had been covered previously, but I have the problem and would like to know how to fix it.

If disassembly is required, please provide correct how to's.


Much thanks......

[Seraph]

I've taken it apart and dried it and put it together with a new gasket. Try that.

As for taking it apart, that's a little tricky. I'll have to do another photo howto.

lwin

[svxjoe]

Well, from my expereince with these tail lights the condensation is unavoidable. I bought a set of tailights to replace the ones that had condensation in them...thinking that some seal had worn out or something in the lens. But....after putting the new ones in (ordered through Subaru) and after the first rain the condensation appeared in the new ones. I went back to the dealership to tell them that the lenses were defective, but before I went to complain....I saw even the new 2002 Legacy's (all of them on the lot) had condensation in the brake lense. The condensation has something to do with the rainy weather (or a dewy night) and the humidity, which causes it not to dry up. But a week of nice cool dry air and weather should clear up condensation in the tail lights.

-SVXJoe:cool:

[Seraph]

Originally posted by svxjoe
Well, from my expereince with these tail lights the condensation is unavoidable.

Joe,

If you are trying to dry the there is no way you can dry them. Like many things I've done, you need to have some guts to do some work to get rid of the moisture. You HAVE TO OPEN the lights apart. You will need 2 pairs of hands for the center combination light cluster. The reason why you have to open the lights apart is because there are 3 layers of stuff before you hit the outer light shell. There is the black part you see from the back (a), then the inner (white diffusing) shell(b), then a clear plastic layer (look closely at the coners -- notice that black dots. they are on that plastic transpant shell)(c) then the outer shell (d). The water is usually in between "c" and "d". You need to get rid of it before you put a new gaskard in otherwise you will run into the same problem.

a) =========||== =====
/O\
b) xxxxxxx|xxxx|xxxxxx
c) -------------------
d) ===================


Lwin

[SHISVX]

drill tiniweenie holes in the bottom, i did, you can't see them, they work great and they are cheap to do!!!

Kelli

[ensteele]

I put mine in a box with a hair dryer for 30 to 60 min. and this dried them. Then I put new gaskets on (leaving the old ones on so it would be thinker)and I have not had any problems after that. Many like Kelli have drilled holes in them, and that has been a good fix too. Good luck. :)

[squiggy]

kelli
did you drill the itty bitty teeny weenie holes in the front/bottom of the lens thru the clear part
or thru the bottom/bottom part??
Squiggy :confused:

[SHISVX]

the red lights in the back...underneath...on the bottom....inferior to the top and on both parietal cuts....um wait been studying the human body to long....lol, on both sides and one in the middle. i had to get the angle which was the hard part...you can't even see the, i fwas so proud of myself!!:D :D

Kelli

[Aredubjay]

I simply replaced all the gaskets in all my rear lights and panels. Condensation has not reappeared. I am having the same problem with the "new" SVX. I'm going to try swapping the gaskets to see if that helps. Sometimes, when people replace their gaskets, they overtighten the lens assy, which does a "cookie cutter" job on the new gaskets, rendering them ineffective. If you replace the gaskets, don't overtighten.

[gcookaustin]

1. Wait for a few days after the last rain so that the taillights dry themselves, or remove them and dry them according to the previous recommendations.
2. Once the tailights are removed, wash off the gaskets.
3. Apply gasket sealant on BOTH sides of each gasket. You do not have to apply sealer to the bottom of the gaskets, I did that on purpose so incase it did fill up with water at least it had an escape.
4. Reinstall

If you use gasket sealer, you don't really need new gaskets. My gaskets were in bad shape, had the "cookie cutter" effect and also some tears around where the bolts go through.

[$VX]

Alright, I have a bunch to write about this. My old car (neon) did this, so what I did to fix it was to remove the taillights, take off the gaskets, coat them with black silicone sealant, then reinstall. Worked awesome. WELL, I was producing a how-to for the how-to section, and I took out my tails, dried them with a hair dryer, and cleaned the gaskets with windex. After doing this, I was running out of daylight so I only had time to silicone ONE taillight. Since it was dusk already, I took the 'windexed' gasket (WITHOUT ANY SILICONE) and reinstalled it, and installed the otherside with the silicone. So I "THOUGHT" I had one 'fixed' taillight and one leaky taillight. I was right. BUT COMPLETELY MIXED UP.... the taillight with the clear silicone is now filled with condensation, and hte gasket that I just cleaned with windex seems to be working awesome! :D

Why? I have NO idea.

HOWEVER, I am going to DISAGREE 100% with Kelli's advice about 'drilling little holes'. This will hurt you more than it will help you; let me explain. By drilling the holes, yes, you allow condensation to get out, but you do NOT prevent moisture from getting in. IF anyone has ever seen the inside of one of these lenses, they're plastic coated with an EXTREMELY thin shiny surface. If these keep getting moist, they'll corrode. Corroded shiny surface= dull ugly looking lights. If you look at 80s minivans you'll see what I mean, especially in their headlights. SO DO NOT DRILL HOLES.

- Ca$h

[ensteele]

One other trick someone mentioned on an earlier thread about this is to swap left to right and right to left. This way they it will give you additonal thickness on the gasket. It might help. :)

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by $VX
HOWEVER, I am going to DISAGREE 100% with Kelli's advice about 'drilling little holes'.

I wouldn't disagree 100%. Though it is not the route I would take, nor, necessarily recommend, there have been many members over the past few years who have tried this method and proven that it works. The preferred method of creating the small holes, as I recall, was by heating a needle. Again, not my route, but, proven to work by many members.

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by ensteele93
I put mine in a box with a hair dryer for 30 to 60 min. and this dried them. Then I put new gaskets on (leaving the old ones on so it would be thinker)and I have not had any problems after that. Many like Kelli have drilled holes in them, and that has been a good fix too. Good luck. :)

Earthworm had a great way of removing condensation from the brake light assys. A vacuum cleaner at one bulb hole, and a hair dryer in the other. Helps to pull the warm air through the fixture and effectively clear the condensation very quickly.

[YellowBird]

My husband has decided to just remove the lights and try new gaskets, if they are real bad, and add silicone at this time.

The idea of putting small holes in the lenses makes sense and if the above does not fix the problem, we can try that ... I guess.


Thanks alot guys and gals.

[svx_commuter]

A little condensation is not a big deal as this will come and go with the weather. A tail light half filled with water is something to correct. RTV and the old gasket even if it is cut will work fine. Even the new gaskets will dry out again at some point.

[Paisan]

I also have this problem. I've heard and will try this week to do what some others do. You take a little pack of silica that comes in electronics and vitamin packs and attach it to some dental floss or fishing line, then drop it in the back of the light fixture and tie it off so that you can pull it out if need be. This will absorb the excess moisture and keep them condensation free. I also heard that a few grains of rice works well too.

-mike

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by SVXsomeday
My husband has decided to just remove the lights and try new gaskets, if they are real bad, and add silicone at this time.

The idea of putting small holes in the lenses makes sense and if the above does not fix the problem, we can try that ... I guess.


Thanks alot guys and gals.

The only problem I've heard with the "drilled hole" method is, to make sure you keep the holes clean. The holes will fill up with road dirt, so, clean them occasionally to assure they are doing their jobs.

[$VX]

NO! DO NOT DRILL HOLES! The mirror like chrome finish on the inside of hte lenses will CORRODE and leave you with a dark, dull light. DO NOT DRILL HOLES. TRUST ME. I'll take pics of some 'drilled' lenses I have on the neon, to show you how FABULOUS that works. >:\

- Ca$h

[SHISVX]

Originally posted by $VX
NO! DO NOT DRILL HOLES! The mirror like chrome finish on the inside of hte lenses will CORRODE and leave you with a dark, dull light. DO NOT DRILL HOLES. TRUST ME. I'll take pics of some 'drilled' lenses I have on the neon, to show you how FABULOUS that works. >:\

- Ca$h

and just like little bob here, i can show you pics of what little holes can do to help with moisture...

you make your choice of how you want to do this, i was just offering and idea that worked for me. i didn't mean to start a little "I AM RIGHT AGAIN" thread. and when drilling holes into head lights, it usually works out better than backs because the heat from the engine helps the moisture to evaporate...

good luck and i hope the choice that you make to fix your problem works out. let us know!:D

Kelli

[$VX]

I'm not saying you're wrong or I'm right. I'm saying that IF you drill holes, YES the condensation will leave, but so will your reflective coating! I'll upload pics later tonight so you can see what I'm talking about.

- Ca$h

[ensteele]

Originally posted by Paisan
I also heard that a few grains of rice works well too.
-mike

Is this what you do to "RICE" your car?:rolleyes: :eek: :D :p

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by $VX
I'm not saying you're wrong or I'm right. I'm saying that IF you drill holes, YES the condensation will leave, but so will your reflective coating! I'll upload pics later tonight so you can see what I'm talking about.

- Ca$h

Did you ever stop to think that they MAY not have used the same material for the "reflective coating" in the SVX that they used in the Neon? That, perhaps, just perhaps, it is of a superior quality and will not do the same thing as with the other car? That, in the three years we've heard of this "fix" that no one has complained of losing their "reflective material." Don't say what "WILL" happen until you have an apples to apples comparison. It's fine to say, "look what happened to my (insert car name here), it might happen to yours if you do this."

Now, if anyone out there has done the holes and lost any reflective material, please speak up. Otherwise, consider this a viable (again, not my choice of options) option for dealing with condensation.

[$VX]

It doesn't happen for years! It doesn't matter WHAT kind/brand/marque/model of car it is, the reflective coating is all produced the EXACT same way. The naked plastic parts are shoved into a chamber, all the air is removed (Vacuum) and the chromium piece is basically 'exploded' onto the naked plastic parts, covering them with an EXTREMELY thin and EXTREMELY even coat of chromium stuff. NOW AREDUBJAY, since you accuse me of being a moron on this subject I ask you to go look at any 80s Chrysler Minivan. These vehicles had a faulty gasket around the headlight BULB. Since this rubber 'gasket' dried out it allowed moisture to get in the headlights. Know what happens then? Lets see...thin metallic coating + moisture= corroded ****ty ugly looking lights.

- Ca$h

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by $VX
NOW AREDUBJAY, since you accuse me of being a moron on this subject I ask you to go look at any 80s Chrysler Minivan. These vehicles had a faulty gasket around the headlight BULB. Since this rubber 'gasket' dried out it allowed moisture to get in the headlights. Know what happens then? Lets see...thin metallic coating + moisture= corroded ****ty ugly looking lights.

- Ca$h

First of all, If I were going to call you a moron (which I didn't -- that seems to be one of your favorite terminologies), I would call you a moron across the board. Not just on this particular subject. But, since I didn't and I haven't -- I may save it for a later post.

All I'm saying is, that if it has been tried and proven without ill effects, you cannot defiinitively discount it - which is what you seem to do in ALL cases. I'm saying that it's okay to tell us your experience with whatever car you have and to use it as an example, but not to use it as a definitive for all applications. It's like saying, "The paint is peeling off my Caravan, so the paint is going to start peeling on every car."

Not to mention, the holes that were drilled in my '95 Caravan are taking care of the condensation in the right front headlight just fine, without ill effect on the reflective material. And, if it takes "years" then, i'll be ready for a new ASSY in "Years" anyway, so, no loss.

[Seraph]

Originally posted by $VX
I'm not saying you're wrong or I'm right. I'm saying that IF you drill holes, YES the condensation will leave, but so will your reflective coating! I'll upload pics later tonight so you can see what I'm talking about.

- Ca$h


Rob,

Let me be the first to say you DON"T know what you are talking about. I have taken apart the lights of the SVX every other week. I assume that at this point, I KNOW what I am talking about. How is drilling holes going to kill your reflective coating? The clear coat is done on the outside. There are 3 layers of stuff between the back shell and the front shell. If you don't believe me, take the damn thing apart. I have. SVX is not like a neon here bud. This is a whole new creature. The so called reflective edge is done on a clear plastic layer between the difusser and the red lense. So drill all you want that will not kill your reflective layer. PERIOD.

Thank you very much for listening.

Lwin

ps. there are no other reflective coating on any of my SVXes. I have opened the lights of EVERY SVX I've owned. Let's compare notes. How many SVXes have you done so far?

[mohrds]

Having opened up many SVX lights, I can assure you that there is no reflective material on the taillight housing. There is grey paint on the brake light housing, but that is only to even out the light, not focus it.

Subaru used concentric prism inserts to focus the light and a cross-hatch material to blur the focus resulting in a very effective taillight unit.

In fact, here's the proof. By the way, these housings had holes drilled in them in 1994 and were in service until this past June without any degradation.

Also, Chrysler does not use Polycarbonate on their headlights, neither does Ford. They use a modified strain of Acrylic. You can't fix the Acrylic yellowing, it travels through all the veins of the material. Polycarbonate only tarnishes on the surface of the material.

The painted housing


Doug

[mohrds]

The prisim inserts

[mohrds]

The waffle panel

[Seraph]

Thanks doug, I was just going to post them.

Lwin

[mohrds]

<<Thanks doug, I was just going to post them>>

It helps having a spare set of tailllights less than one meter from your keyboard :)

Doug

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by mohrds
<<Thanks doug, I was just going to post them>>

It helps having a spare set of tailllights less than one meter from your keyboard :)

Doug

Gah, are we geeks, or what? Let's take an inventory of who has which SVX parts sitting by their computers. I've got a cig lighter assembly, including the faux wood trim surround. :D

[Seraph]

Originally posted by Aredubjay


Gah, are we geeks, or what? Let's take an inventory of who has which SVX parts sitting by their computers. I've got a cig lighter assembly, including the faux wood trim surround. :D

I have 2 stereos, the whole center panel, LCD screen, cig lighter, and ashtray.

[Boone]

I've got a freshly painted to perfection '97 grille sittin' here waiting for the clearcoat to dry. ;)

[Paisan]

Originally posted by Aredubjay


Did you ever stop to think that they MAY not have used the same material for the "reflective coating" in the SVX that they used in the Neon? That, perhaps, just perhaps, it is of a superior quality and will not do the same thing as with the other car?

Here we go with the "SVX was produced by the right hand of God" thing again. You guys are funny. Automotive materials are not all that different from bottom line cars to the really expensive ones, it's a matter of assembly.

-mike

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by Paisan


Here we go with the "SVX was produced by the right hand of God" thing again. You guys are funny. Automotive materials are not all that different from bottom line cars to the really expensive ones, it's a matter of assembly.

-mike

What is your problem? I referenced the SVX, mainly because we were talking about the condensation in the SVX tail lights vs the Neon tail lights. I could've just as well said a Camaro, a Taurus, or something else. Get a grip, bubba. This is an SVX board and we'll be talking about SVXes -- yes they are our passion. I hope they're doing the same on the Camaro board, the frickin' Yugo board and all other boards dedicated to a particular car. Sheesh. Get your panties out of a wad.

[Paisan]

I'm just as passionate as you are buddy. I'm sick of the attitude of the SVX is the best thing since sliced bread/God himself built these cars and they are perfect that you seem to promote all over the place. They are great cars, but are not infallable, get a grip.

-mike

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by Paisan
I'm just as passionate as you are buddy.

Judging by your next statement, obviously not. :rolleyes:

I'm sick of the attitude of the SVX is the best thing since sliced bread/God himself built these cars and they are perfect that you seem to promote all over the place.

I can't help what your perspective is. You seem to have developed some skewed opinion of some of us that won't be changed. I can't help that either.

They are great cars, but are not infallable, get a grip.

My grip is fine. Believe me, I know the SVX is not infallable. Waiting for the car for sometimes 30 days at a time to come out of the tranny shop, on multiple occasions. . . waiting for the bearings to go out . . . etc, etc, . . . My point is, if you don't share the level of "passion" (misguided or not), there's no need to make an issue of it. Let those of us who are "crazed" be crazed. This is the only place we can be "crazed" and people will somewhat understand . . . well, MOST people. :D

-mike

[$VX]

Ah. Nevermind then it seems. I was wrong; Drill away. But as a future warning to other vehicles you may have.... if it has a shiny 'chrome' looking finish, that is NOT durable, and it doesn't take to moisture very well.

- Ca$h

[ensteele]

:(

[Seraph]

Originally posted by $VX
Ah. Nevermind then it seems. I was wrong; Drill away. But as a future warning to other vehicles you may have.... if it has a shiny 'chrome' looking finish, that is NOT durable, and it doesn't take to moisture very well.

- Ca$h

What is the chrome look you are talking about?:confused:

[mohrds]

<<What is the chrome look you are talking about>>

Some lights have the plastic reflector chrome plated to improve light focus. Think of the back up lights on the SVX with the stainless steel reflector. It helps direct the light toward the target.

But, plastic with chrome plating does not hold up well to the elements. Just look at any car with plastic chrome badges on it. after a few years the chrome will start to fall off.

Doug

[Seraph]

AH... I see

[wawazat??]

Those that know me know that I work in the automotive plastic industry. A friend (and customer) of mine produces (molds and metallizes) the tail lights for the Legacy line in Lafayette (supplied by II Stanley, a Japanese transplant company located in Battle Creek, MI)

The materials used to add the reflective coating to taillamps can be
1)silver paint
2) vacuum deposited molten aluminum
3) vacuum deposited molten stainless steel
4) vacuum deposited molten chromium.


Obviously the materials listed above will have WILDLY different resistance to the environment. The choice is determined by $$, performance, DOT standards for light transmission, and appearance (the various materials offer different looks behind the polycarbonate lenses).

For case of this arguement, the current Mitsubishi Eclipse uses a housing that has vent holes molded into the base. These are covered with caps for splash protection, but are open to atmosphere. This housing is coated with molten aluminum.

Doug (mohrds), I have a question for you. Where did you find that the headlamp lenses are molded from modified acrylic (PMMA)? They were molded from polycarbonate (PC) due to its impact resistance which is typically 10-20X greater than acrylic. They were then coated with a UV inhibitor and hard coating to resist scratches. UV light is what causes the color shift of the polycarbonate and the coating. The materials molecular structure is degraded which reduces its clarity (yellowing) and its impact strength.

Todd

[svx_commuter]

Hi Todd,

A few of us have used Novus to polish the plastic. That would remove the UV coating I think. Is there a UV coating that can be reapplied?

John

[lee]

John,

I may or may not have the answer (not enough time has gone by to verify). I Novus polished my lenses in Jan 02. They have not shown any yellowing since then. The sun is pretty intense in East-central Florida and the car is parked in the sun, about 100 feet from the ocean, Mon-Fri while I work.

I use 303 Aerospace Protectant. The product is not a hard coating. It is what Armor-All should have been. I got turned on to it by several hard-core auto detailing types. No silicon, and bottle claims 3-5 weeks protection from a spray-on, wipe-on product. I put it on after I wash my car (usually every 2 or 3 weeks).

I would also give it an endorsement for protecting and brightening tire sidewalls (better than Meguiar's Endurance - which I used to use), protecting dashes and interior/exterior trim, and even good for leather seats (UV protection - not conditioning, which might best be done with Leatherique).

No I don't work for them, nor even get a price break for the above commercial. I just believe in it after seeing it work. I buy it at West Marine stores and it's about 5 times the Armor-All price. I am NOT an "it costs more so it's gotta be better" type guy. For this product I think it's a "you get what you pay for" scene. No car places seem to carry it (around here) but aircraft and marine stores usually seem to have it in stock - should you choose to try.

[jwherm]

I'm not understanding this aerospace thing. You use it as a polish or a wax for the outside of your car? I usually use about two coats of polish during the whole process. Do you do this with the aerospace stuff? I love making my car look nice so this sounds interesting.