View Full Version : Anyone with rear axle experience ('94 LSi)
Hi all. I've run into an interesting problem with my '94 LSi. The right rear axle was making some noise so, I had my local Subaru dealer replace it. Unfortunately, the right axle that came in was different form the axle that came out of mine and doesn't fit. SOA insists that the replacement part is the right one, and that the right and left axles are different (with different part numbers). The dealer then took out my left axle and it looks identical to my right. The Dealer, at this point, doesn't know what to do. Any ideas?
Are all of the rear differentials (LSi and non LSi) the same for '92-'97. Has anyone looked at both rear axles and noticed a difference? The new right rear axle from Subaru (which doesn't fit) is definitely longer with a different spline. Thanks in advance for any help.
Dennis D
92 SVX
02-16-2012, 12:33 PM
does your car have a manual trans swap or 4.44 geared trans swap by chance?
92snowmachine
02-16-2012, 01:02 PM
my source (napa) says right one is 31 and 7/16" and the left one is 30 and 1/4". these are compressed measurements.
how long is your old axle and how long is the new one?
It's an automatic but They're going to try checking serial numbers on the Trans and Diff to see if a Swap was done at some point. He thinks that it looks like axles from an outback. We'll see.
I'll see if I can get those measurements
svxfiles
02-16-2012, 02:17 PM
I'll see if I can get those measurements
Better yet get us the number from the transmission by the starter.;)
OK, I'll look for it. Thanks
svxfiles
02-16-2012, 09:44 PM
This thread might help.:)
http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=44184&highlight=4.44+transmission+numbers
Post #7.;)
Hi Tom,
That helped immensely. The Transmission Type is TZ102Z2CBA-DT, which is on the list of 4.44 Transmissions on the thread. The Serial number is 188536. Is there a way to determine the Donor Vehicle from that number and, more importantly, the Donor Differential? I can then buy the right axle for it. Thanks very much,
Dennis D
Actually, I did a google search and it looks like it's from a '97 Outback. Can I assume that the Diff. (and axles) are from the same?
Dennis
Chuckls
02-17-2012, 05:05 PM
it could be a different rear diff..
I'm swapping in an 04 outback rear diff and I'm having to replace the SVX-Specific right rear axle and swapping it for one w/o the two splines.
Hocrest
02-17-2012, 07:54 PM
Yeah it sounds like whoever did the trans swap just swapped out the rear for an OB rear diff. Just get some OB rear axles and all will be good.
Chuckls
02-17-2012, 07:59 PM
Yeah it sounds like whoever did the trans swap just swapped out the rear for an OB rear diff. Just get some OB rear axles and all will be good.
FWIW, you only need one.
Rats! Found an axle from a '98 Outback and ....doesn't fit, and doesn't look quite the same. The Transmission has the number TZ102Z2CBA-DT which, from everything I can tell, comes from a '97 Outback. I've been told that the axles from the '96-'99 Outbacks are interchangeable, but this definitely doesn't fit.
Is it possible that someone mix and matched, using an Outback Transmission with a differential from a different car (Forester or Impreza)? Any ideas?
Hocrest
02-27-2012, 08:17 PM
yeah, it is entirely possible that it would be a diff from a different car. How is it not fitting?
Do you have any pictures of the diff without axles attached?
Chuckls
02-27-2012, 08:22 PM
Is it possible that someone mix and matched, using an Outback Transmission with a differential from a different car (Forester or Impreza)? Any ideas?
You're not alone. I'm having the same problem. My diff is from an 04 Outback, and my axles are not fitting. Find out from the P.O. what was swapped.
Hocrest
02-27-2012, 08:27 PM
Do the sideplates (where the axles attach) have 5 bolts like this one?
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Rear-Differential-SUBARU-IMPREZA-WRX-STi-R160-4-1-/16/!Bojnug!!mk~$(KGrHqIH-CYEuYYqTKwIBLn689ju+Q~~_35.JPG
Or do they have ridges like the sideplates on the front diff?
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2552/axle5.jpg
Chuckls
02-27-2012, 08:43 PM
mine:
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/chuckles2002/Rear_Diff.jpg
svxfiles
02-27-2012, 08:46 PM
Rats! Found an axle from a '98 Outback and ....doesn't fit, and doesn't look quite the same. The Transmission has the number TZ102Z2CBA-DT which, from everything I can tell, comes from a '97 Outback. I've been told that the axles from the '96-'99 Outbacks are interchangeable, but this definitely doesn't fit.
Is it possible that someone mix and matched, using an Outback Transmission with a differential from a different car (Forester or Impreza)? Any ideas?
With both axles removed from the rear differention, can you look strait through it?
Thanks everyone,
I'll try to get that info tomorrow
svxfiles
02-27-2012, 09:49 PM
If you can see strait through it, then, with a light see how many splined sleeves there inside.
If there are three then it is a LSD.
If there is a dowell in the center blocking the way, and there are only two splined sleeves, then it is not a LSD.
Huskymaniac
02-28-2012, 07:48 AM
More proof that Tom has gotten into many a rear end.......
svxfiles
02-28-2012, 08:07 AM
More proof that Tom has gotten into many a rear end.......
Its what I live for!:eek:
:rolleyes:
It looks like the one on top with 5 bolts.
I won't know until tomorrow. The Subaru technician that was working on it is out today.
Again, thanks for the help.
Sean486
02-28-2012, 06:11 PM
The dealer then took out my left axle and it looks identical to my right.
Tom, wouldn't this indicate a Non-LSD rear set up like I have in my car?
Subaru tech still isn't in. After talking to a couple of other people, tell me if I have this correct. The transmission number suggests that it is from a '97 Outback so the rear diff should be also. I think I remember the technician saying it is a non LSD diff. Assuming it is a differential from an Outback is it standard to use a stock left SIX axle on both the left and right sides of the Outback diff?
Chuckls
03-01-2012, 01:37 PM
Subaru tech still isn't in. After talking to a couple of other people, tell me if I have this correct. The transmission number suggests that it is from a '97 Outback so the rear diff should be also. I think I remember the technician saying it is a non LSD diff. Assuming it is a differential from an Outback is it standard to use a stock left SIX axle on both the left and right sides of the Outback diff?
IIRC, you use the ones w/ the shorter rear-diff shaft end, Which SHOULD be the left side axle.
So if the left stock SVX axle doesn't snap in the right side of the differential correctly, does that suggest that something is wrong with the differential?
Chuckls
03-01-2012, 02:33 PM
So if the left stock SVX axle doesn't snap in the right side of the differential correctly, does that suggest that something is wrong with the differential?
I'm having the same issue as you then. Honestly, I would just get a pair of axles from the correct model. I know people say they're all the same, but it's not hard to source some.
I think the Outback axles don't fit in the SVX wheel hub, so you have to use two left SVX axles. Is that right?
Tom, to answer your questions. I was able to talk to the technician this afternoon. It does have the center pin and is a non Limited slip didderential. He did try putting the left axle in the right side of the diff but it wouldn't snap in. Would this suggest that something is wrong in the differential itself? The Tech said he looked and it appeared OK but we'll look again tomorrow
svxfiles
03-01-2012, 08:14 PM
Tom, to answer your questions. I was able to talk to the technician this afternoon. It does have the center pin and is a non Limited slip didderential. He did try putting the left axle in the right side of the diff but it wouldn't snap in. Would this suggest that something is wrong in the differential itself? The Tech said he looked and it appeared OK but we'll look again tomorrow
Another possability is that the axle you are installing has an extra snap ring on it.
Meaning that there are TWO snap rings trying to occupy the same space, not going to happen.
Another possability is that the single snap ring, already in the splined sleeve is too fat, and therefor not compatable!
Chuckls
03-02-2012, 07:38 AM
I think the Outback axles don't fit in the SVX wheel hub,
Can anyone else confirm this?
Well Tom, that's why this should be taken care of by an expert. The Subaru Technician is a great guy and has been working on my Subarus ('95 Legacy LSi wagon, '96 SVX LSi,
'05 STI, '09 Legacy GT Spec B) for 15 years, but they are trained to fix with OEM parts and are just not practiced in these mods. I do feel a bit stuck. I didn't know the 4.44 mod was in this car (although I kind of like it) and he has been very gracious about spending a fair amount of time on this without charging too much. I would feel funny about yanking this away from him now since he is still willing to work through it. I'm also not sure that I could drive it with the bad axle at this point. I'll let him know about your experience with the snap rings. Hopefully he'll know how to use that info. I also gave him another rear diff from a '98 Outback to try. Anyway, thanks again for the info. I'm off to vacation in warm weather. I'll be back next Friday to hopefully see success.
It looks like there were two snap rings on both sides (reason for the failure?). The left one does seem to snap in normally and looks like it's in good shape (he's not sure why it would fit with 2 snap rings either). The right one doesn't snap in nicely and obviously didn't fare so well. We'll try getting them both to fit with a single snap ring if he can remove the one from the sleeve. We also have the additional rear diff to try. Wish us luck.
Well, I've learned a ton with this little project but have decided to change direction. The Left SVX axle with a single stock SVX ring did fit into the Outback differential but the Subaru technician didn't think it fit quite the same as in a SVX differential. That coupled with coming across some incredibly inexpensive stock parts (3.54 rebuilt trans with 1000 miles on it and a brand new in the box LSD) has lead me to return the car to stock. I also like the idea of my son being not so quick off the line and maybe better highway mileage.
Since the 4.44 trans was from a 98 Outback, is the rebuilt transmission
(from a '92 SVX) a direct plug and play with the TCU or do I need to swap that out too?
1986nate
04-14-2012, 05:06 PM
Well, I've learned a ton with this little project but have decided to change direction. The Left SVX axle with a single stock SVX ring did fit into the Outback differential but the Subaru technician didn't think it fit quite the same as in a SVX differential. That coupled with coming across some incredibly inexpensive stock parts (3.54 rebuilt trans with 1000 miles on it and a brand new in the box LSD) has lead me to return the car to stock. I also like the idea of my son being not so quick off the line and maybe better highway mileage.
Since the 4.44 trans was from a 98 Outback, is the rebuilt transmission
(from a '92 SVX) a direct plug and play with the TCU or do I need to swap that out too?
A direct swap should be no problem. :)
And where in the hell did you find that nice of a score on the trans and rear? :p
Tapani
04-14-2012, 10:13 PM
Well, I've learned a ton with this little project but have decided to change direction. The Left SVX axle with a single stock SVX ring did fit into the Outback differential but the Subaru technician didn't think it fit quite the same as in a SVX differential.
You have changed direction - this may not be relevant for you, but maybe someone else....
The SVX left axle stub is shorter than the later Legacy / Outback / Impreza open ones. The snap ring location is about 5-6mm deeper in the L/O/I. Also, as you have noticed, the snap ring stays inside the carrier in the later diffs. This is why you can push the left side in with the snap ring even though there is one inside already. But it will not "snap in".
I do not know what kind of axles are used with the later VLSD diffs... like a 3.0R Outback. Are they the same as SVX or is the left one the same as with the open ones?
Then there's the 22/30 spline axle bar issue on top. And the outer joint issue. Which axles and joints are compatible on which diff - OEM and after market.
We should compile a reference chart for all readily available applications, eh?
Tapani
Thanks for the info, Nate. One more thing. Do the front axles need to be switched out? That is, are they the same for the SVX and "96-"98 Outback. They sure look the same as the ones on my other SVX.
I really did luck out on the parts. Otherwise I would have bought some old, high mileage parts to put it back together. I ran across someone close to my home who had put >$6K in the past year into her 207K '92 SVX, including the trans. Her exhaust system went (or part of it) and was also told she needed brakes, and rotors and was given an estimate of >$5K. She gave up and was going to junk it so I bought the whole car for salvage price. Then I saw a post from a year ago on a Subaru board where someone was selling the in-the-box LSD. I contacted him, he still had it, and was just about to toss it. He was happy to sell it to me for not very much. It really is amazing what is sitting in garages and yards. Just luck on this one.
Tapani,
Yeah, it was interesting to me that both axles had two rings and were more-or-less wedged into place. Tom had indicated that this wasn't proper installation. When I removed the snap ring from inside the differential on the passenger side, the stock SVX axle with the stock SVX C-ring seemed to me to snap into place. The Subaru tech. thought that it still didn't feel right though. I also had a suspicion that the diff may also be damaged and it wasn't a LSD (where I live, I like to have that-that's one of the reasons I bought the LSi). Anyway, you guys that are experienced with this mod may have been comfortable with the fitment or there may very well be something else I'm missing but, I just felt more comfortable, with my son driving it, going back to stock. Luckily we did well with the replacement parts. Now we just have to get it back together without a hitch.
Can anyone tell me if the same front SVX axles are used in the Outback 4.44 trans. Do they require any modification?
1986nate
04-18-2012, 08:42 AM
Can anyone tell me if the same front SVX axles are used in the Outback 4.44 trans. Do they require any modification?
You use the SVX axles
Chuckls
04-18-2012, 08:45 AM
Tap, I have yet to do my rear axles, as things came up..As soon as I get them, I'll letchu know :)
Nate, I am constantly being Messaged saying OB axles won't fit the hub...WHat do I tell them to get them off my back?
Thanks again for all of the helpful info. I should finally be able to get this car back together next week. It would have been impossible for me to figure all of this out without the help from people on this board.
Tapani
04-25-2012, 09:06 PM
Interesting thread
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2306425
Tapani
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