Remote Mount Turbo

[Subaru Alliance]

I have finally ordered 99% of my parts. Here is a run down of the plan.

I have already removed the muffler and chopped out the spare tire well, to give me the needed clearance so the turbo isn't dragging on the ground. I will keep the turbo lubrication and cooling system separate from the engine cooling and oil system. I have a heater core from an SVX and a 7 inch electric fan, and electric high temp water pump. I also have an oil cooler, another 7 inch electric fan, and electric submersible oil pump. I have an oil catch can that will be mounted as the oil reservoir, as well as a radiator overflow tank that will be the cooling system reservoir. The electric fans and pumps are gonna be wired thru a time delay relay, so it will work kinda like a turbo timer, once i start the car it will power up the relays, and then once shut down, the engine will turn off, but the electric fans and pumps for the turbo will continue to run for another 30 seconds, maybe one minute. I also have a digital oil temp gauge and digital water temp gauge to monitor the turbo temps.

I wanted to do a remote mount build because it will be a sleeper when looked at from under the hood, and also with turbo taking the place of the muffler there is no need for an intercooler. I know a lot of people are concerned with turbo lag, I however am not much concerned with that, because when you add up all the piping going from the turbo, through an intercooler, and then back to the intake, I am sure my piping will only be within a foot or two of that. Also with turbo outside of the engine bay, it should have some nice cool air hitting it as well as cool oil and water, hopefully a side effect of this setup will result in a turbo that is a couple hundred degrees cooler than a typical turbo build. I have just ordered most of my parts, so it will be a little bit until they get here. I will update with more ideas and questions through the week, but the only progress updates on the build will be coming on weekends since I am working late hours through the week. I have a spare engine on my carport with all new gaskets and seals, as well as sr20det injectors. That engine is the one getting turbo'd and the original engine will be done up with seals and gaskets and kept as a spare, or prepped to go into my 03 Baja (that will be another thread though).

The only big part I am missing right now is air fuel ratio with wideband sensor. I have the turbo, ECUTUNE stage 2, MAF, blow off valve, external waste gate, set at 8psi, my electric pumps, fans, coolers, and catch cans. I have some of those things, the rest are on order, or in route.

Any comments, concerns, advice, etc. etc. are welcome

[Subaru Alliance]

So far my budget is super cheap, but as of now, I am about 1500 bucks into it, not including the trips to auto zone for misc items, hoses, clamps etc. etc. I have been buying parts one at a time for about a year now and now it's starting to come together.

I am also working on my neighbor guys turbo RX7, I am plumbing in some intercooler piping and fabricating some brackets, and he is giving me the clamps, hoses and piping that is left over, just another to keep it on the cheap, lol.

here is a hasty pic of the car getting turbo'd, you can see the Baja and RX7 in the background.http://http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2865591793918&set=a.2443833370221.2114690.1083470802&type=1&theater Adding the photo isn't working, so please let me know if these links don't work.
http://http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2865591793918&set=a.2443833370221.2114690.1083470802&type=1&theater

[92 SVX]

So far my budget is super cheap, but as of now, I am about 1500 bucks into it, not including the trips to auto zone for misc items, hoses, clamps etc. etc. I have been buying parts one at a time for about a year now and now it's starting to come together.

I am also working on my neighbor guys turbo RX7, I am plumbing in some intercooler piping and fabricating some brackets, and he is giving me the clamps, hoses and piping that is left over, just another to keep it on the cheap, lol.

here is a hasty pic of the car getting turbo'd, you can see the Baja and RX7 in the background.http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2865591793918&set=a.2443833370221.2114690.1083470802&type=1&theater Adding the photo isn't working, so please let me know if these links don't work.
http://http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2865591793918&set=a.2443833370221.2114690.1083470802&type=1&theater (&set=a.2443833370221.2114690.1083470802&type=1&theater")
you have an extra set of http:// in both those links
you also were not copying the real image location to do that you needed to have the image pop out of the facebook page.

[92 SVX]

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/427517_2865591793918_1083470802_32339888_116021578 1_n.jpg

this should work

[Tapani]

Even a more conventional installation can be rather "stealthy".... :rolleyes:

Other than that I have a similar set up. 370 CC injectors, stage 2 from Michael, N62 MAF.

I have LC-1 wide band with a Innovate gauge hooked up at the analogue output.

Kind regards,

Tapani

[Subaru Alliance]

thanks 92SVX

@tapani that is a stealthy build, very nice. How many psi you run? stock internals?

I am excited to get this done for the first hand knowledge of it. I have heard of remote mounts, but that's all, now i can build one. I have thought of getting a pair of pyro's to mount one at the collector, and one just in front of the turbo, but they are fairly expensive, and it would be purely for experimentation, so the cost really doesn't justify a best case scenario of 100 degrees difference

One thing I haven't gotten to yet, is PCV or any other vacuum plumbing. That is something to plan for as it gets closer, maybe just a check valve in stock locations?
This will be a daily driver, spending it's time through the week driving in the city, actually obtaining boost in my normal driving routine, will be intermittent, if at all. I live 3 miles away from my job, and it's all 30 - 45 mph speed limits between home and work. The first few days after the build is complete, I will drive more aggressively just work out kinks, but after that it will be bak to my normal routine of driving miss daisy.

[immortal_suby]

Cool project, Good luck with it! I'm looking forward to the updates on you progress.

[Tapani]

I run 4-5 PSI for now, the engine is stock. The turbo is a non-cooled T4/T3 hybrid. A/R 0.82, B54 compressor wheel. Spools below 2000 rpm. The turbo was installed in 2000 by the previous owner, I have updated the engine management, MAF and the injectors.

Where do you plan to have your MAF? I am under the impression that if you blow thru it you might run into contamination and other issues. If you suck thru it and go with the remote the MAF will be very far from the throttle butterflies and you may see a time lag.

Also when placing the BOV, remember that if the MAF is upstream from the valve you will blow off some already measured air. You might be better off with a by pass valve. I have a Forge all metal one - the plastic Bosch type in the photos is just a PITA.

Even though the remote installation is cool and something different.... you might reconsider a more conventional arrangement :). There's enough space.

After I finnish my power train project ( http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=58965 ) I might look into an air to water intercooler in place of the metal pressure box. But before that I will try running with E85 - it has an octane level of 105-109 RON and the latent heat of vaporization is significantly higher than gasoline. All this reduces the need for an intercooler. I have the flex fuel version of the stage 2, but never tried it.

Tapani

[STeeL25T]

I'll be doing my turbo exactly like this (I was hoping to be the first :( haha)

I have a Hydra EMS, wide band, and heat exchanger out of an 04 Cobra. Planning to pick up some 550 cc injectors and a water to air intercooler and the universtal turbo kit from Squires Turbo Systems.

Interested to see how yours goes. I had no considered cutting the spare tire well... Was kind of hoping it would all fit where the old exhaust would be.

[Subaru Alliance]

@STeeL25T a lot of the fitting will depend greatly on the size of the turbo, ultimately I want turbo pistons, and to be somewhere in the 18psi + range, so I got a big turbo GT35, and by big I mean she hogs up all the room under there and was asking to get yanked off by the first speed bump I went over, so that was why I chopped out the spare tire well, and also to make room for separate cooling systems, and oiling systems.

If your using a smaller turbo, and the engine cooling/oiling system you should have enough room to fit everything and keep the spare tire well. Good luck, with your build as well.

BTW If you doing a remote mount turbo, there is no need for an intercooler, although doing both should have the charge hitting the cylinder about the same temp as A/C wink, wink.

[Subaru Alliance]

Just an update on a few parts that arrived. I have my electric pumps, one for coolant is 8.2L/m (132 GPH) and not sure which one I will use for my oil system, choices are 3.8Lm (1GPM) or the other is 6.5L/m (100GPH). I want to run a couple tests on the smaller two pumps to see how much psi each will build before I use it. I think the 3.8L pump will give me the flow for the oil system, but not if it's 3.8L @5psi. on the other hand the 100GPH pump going through all the oil cooler and line to the turbo may be something like 40GPH @ 35psi. I will update here once tested.

[Sean486]

Figure out how to post those pictures yet? Lets get some pics!:pics:

[Subaru Alliance]

will try to upload some pics of parts on hand tonight after work, I am just home for lunch right now.

Also for the MAF and BOV, I am gonna extend the wiring to put the MAFright onto the turbo, as for the BOV it's gonna be close to the throttle body, and yes when it does blow off, it will vent metered air, but that will be ok because I am not that fast and furious guy who drives like an idiot just to hear my BOV pop every time I move the car2 feet or more LOL. You guys know who I am referring too ( the guys who hang out at auto zone and buy the flaming floor mats with matching steering wheel cover ;D.

I am a defensive driver to the max, anytime i get on the throttle hard, I roll onto it, and the same when letting off, I roll off it. I don't intend on hitting max boost 13 times a day like some of these kids around here, like I said earlier, in my normal routine I may build 3-4 psi of boost once a week when going back and forth to work Monday through Friday.

Eventually I want to build a daily driver/STI-killer, but the limits of the engine haven't really been proven so for now I will take it slow, start out at 8psi and go from there.

[STeeL25T]

Putting it right on the turbo, are you concerned that the heat might at the least throw off the readings or at worse, melt the plastic?

[Subaru Alliance]

Putting it right on the turbo, are you concerned that the heat might at the least throw off the readings or at worse, melt the plastic?

not really concerned with that, It will be close to the turbo, I think will have a combined 1 foot of pipe there, filter, a bit of pipe, MAF, a bit of pipe, turbo.

[92 SVX]

I believe steel was being facetious, and taking your statement of "on the turbo" literally.


Oh and curious his comment actually reminded me. Are you going to wrap the exhaust all the way back to the turbo? and or use a turbo blanket? I am not sure if hotter exhaust through the turbo would be helpful or not.

[STeeL25T]

Hey, I read "right on the turbo". You never know :)

One think I want to ask though is I believe you mentioned catch cans? I picked up two recently myself (for the crankcase and PCV) and I'm sure you know they need to be under vacuum to work correctly... Which as far as I can tell in our application would mean running two lines to the back of the car where our air intake pipe will now be located. Is this what you were planning to do or is there something smarter I just haven't thought of yet?

[Subaru Alliance]

well the bad news is I didn't get any parts in today. The good news is pics.
Here is the turbo, it's a GT35, I used the book as a reference to the size of it, it's close a high school/college text book in length, height, and width. That's why I decided to chop out the pare tire well.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMGP0006.jpg
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMGP0005.jpg
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMGP0004.jpg
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMGP0003.jpg
The electric pumps from left to right, 132GPH, 100GPH, and 1GPM
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMGP0002.jpg
This is the heater core which will be my radiator, the "intake" and exhaust flanges for the exhaust side of the turbo, and a piece of misc intake piping plumbed for the blow off valve
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMGP0001.jpg

[Subaru Alliance]

@STeeL25T The purpose of my catch cans are really just to be reservoirs, for the oil and coolant. As far as vacuum goes, I really haven't decided yet, I was thinking of something along the lines of a "power strip" one central location to draw power from, but in this case maybe a "vacuum strip" I am considering routing the vacuum lines to a central area and using a check valve with the source of the vacuum being the intake "when not under boost" But I have also considered using a vacuum pump. I have considered the vacuum strip, drawing vacuum from the intake as well as a second source being ran to the intake side of the turbo. to be completely honest I am still open to suggestions and that may be a trial and error set up for me.

[icingdeath88]

Niiiiiiice

:drool:

Needa get me one of those. Or possibly, two, smaller ones of those :D

[Subaru Alliance]

I got my electric fans in today. It will fit perfectly up against the heater core. Here is a pic of the fan, and then one of the fan against the heater core.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMGP0009.jpg
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMGP0010.jpg
It fits like a glove

[Subaru Alliance]

Talking to my buddy here and he gave me a great idea for the PCV set up. I may just go with a small filter on one cam cover, and then the other cam cover through a check valve into the intake manifold, so when not under boost then one cam cover will draw vacuum and then the other will let fresh air pass through the engine I may have to think of a way to add some sort of restriction there so it's not a HUGE vacuum leak.

[Subaru Alliance]

Ok so for another update, yesterday after work I came home to find that my coolant reservoir, blow off valve, and o2 sensors came in today. I am gonna hit up the hardware store for some brass fittings, and I should be getting some more parts in today so I will update with more pics this evening.

[solarsvx]

intresting aproach and project you have your work cut out,

i been inolved with turbo AWD cars for 15 years now starting with dsm's and making a monster evo x

working with a n/a and converting it to a turbo car has lots down sides thats not to your favor,

best of luck and keep us updated =>

[Jay Wrix]

very beautiful, was thinking about a similar project,

they do make vacuum powered pumps for stuff like that, belt driven off the motor (morrosso) specifically for boosted applications, if you do need that...

what are the ports on the turbo for?

[92 SVX]

very beautiful, was thinking about a similar project,

they do make vacuum powered pumps for stuff like that, belt driven off the motor (morrosso) specifically for boosted applications, if you do need that...

what are the ports on the turbo for?

They do make them 96-99 and possibly other years chevy turbo diesels have belt driven vac pumps, of course on them it doesnt make any sense the only thing requiring vac is the waste gate they could have just made electric or even mech waste gate controller.

[Jay Wrix]

brake boosters require vacuum to operate as well as cruise control

(correct me if diesel trucks are differnt, i know airbrakes are....)

[Subaru Alliance]

@ Jay Wrix' comment that is right. the reason vacuum pumps are used on a diesel is because there is no throttle body on a diesel, like there is on a gasoline engine. The throttle body being closed off while the engine is running is what creates the vacuum, a diesel however is allowed to get a full charge of air at all operating speeds, and the engine speed is controlled by fuel alone, a gas engine you have to control air and fuel flow to prevent leaning out.

The ports on the turbo, I assume your talking about the long metal tubes that come off if it, these are for coolant, one supply, and one return. the small fitting in the middle is for oil supply, and there is one on the bottom you can't see in the pics is the oil return. some turbos are oil and air cooled, this one is liquid cooled, the oil and air will draw some heat off, but mostly liquid cooled.

Quick update on the build, I am fabbing up my exhaust flange, and hope to get the turbo mounted today, if not by tomorrow definitely and I will post a few pics. I got my trans cooler and electric fan mounted, and everything is plumbed for the oil system, I will test it for flow after everything is mounted and if satisfactory I will run it like for the time being. I won't plumb anything from the turbo to the intake yet, I am waiting on my stage 2 ecutune, and then an engine swap, then the last of the intake plumbing.

[Jay Wrix]

no, i knew that i was refering to all the apparent holes around the inside of the turbo where the air goes in,

[Subaru Alliance]

O my bad, those are for some sort of anti surge. I bought two GT35's they both arrived at the same time, one has those anti-surge holes, and the other does not, other than that they are identical. I have never seen these anti-suge holes on any other turbo before. I guess we'll see if they "work" LOL

I just used google and searched for anti surge, there is a lot of info on it.

[Jay Wrix]

interesting, reminds me of the old atomizer kart carbs

I want a tubro svx now....

[92 SVX]

brake boosters require vacuum to operate as well as cruise control

(correct me if diesel trucks are differnt, i know airbrakes are....)

The 80's and 90's chevy diesel trucks do not use a vac booster for the brakes they use a power steering fluid driven hydrolic unit.

This is probably an early setup later years may look slightly different.

http://www.cj-3a.com/Hydroboost.JPG

[Subaru Alliance]

Very nice pic 92 SVX, that's like the HMMWV's (HUMVEE's) in the army.

Anyways, I had the turbo mocked up and bolted on for about 30 minutes, but I have to do some more work that became evident during the mock up. Tomorrow should have it semi-permanently to permanently mounted and get some pics up. I had it bolted down, but my gravity drain would have had some issues, so I am gonna raise the turbo another 6 inches and then mock it up again. Pics will be posted tomorrow of a mocked up turbo with functional oil system in place.

All in all, I really only have about a weekend wrapped up fabrication so far. It's just been spread out over a few weeks, a couple hours here and a few there. I think the single most time consuming part of the build will be the engine swap and that can be done in a weekend. would be less time involved for some one who already has the stage 2 ecu tune. My stage 2 just come with an engine swap since my engine is ready for some new seals anyways.

[92 SVX]

Very nice pic 92 SVX, that's like the HMMWV's (HUMVEE's) in the army.



yes the army humvee's are all chevy diesels. I like the set up they use very simple very reasonable power no electronics to fail engine management, pft what is that. :lol:

The civilian trucks in the 94 and up got stuck with lots of electronics that tended to fail often, the army humvee was never changed, I dont know if they did in the 2000 and later models but I dont believe they did.


As to your turbo build I am following this closely I like he project I hope you get it to your expectations.

I dont know if I asked this before so I will ask.

Are you planning on using some exhaust wrap and/ or turbo blanket? To keep the heat in I have heard different things about efficiency of the turbo especially on remote mounts.

[icingdeath88]

So you're using a GT35? And the engine is stock? How much boost are you planning on running it at? I think the GT35 is oversized for a stock engine. What are your plans for the other turbo?

[Tapani]

I wonder if anything came out of the SVX (87F383) remote turbo talk here:

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/power-adder/238864-another-remote-mount-turbo.html

As a general comment: Less is more (also) in this case.... go for low boost level with moderate parts - when sizing the turbo remember the exhaust flow has lost quite a bit of its energy, the volume flow is down and this should be taken into account when selecting the turbine side. You might get by with a small - even a used - older turbo type with a "non-cooled" housing and an integral waste gate. Two systems less.....

As a daily driver you will need to aim for increased driveability, good midrange and - less lag.

Kind regards,

Tapani

[Subaru Alliance]

Ok so I have the turbo mounted, and the oil system is plumbed and running. here are a few pics of the exhaust flangehttp://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120220_150135.jpg
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120220_150118.jpg

I also have some photos of the turbo installed and let me tell you, she is an ANGRY turbo. It starts making noise under moderate to low throttle around 2K, I don't know for sure until I get the boost gauge and intake plumbing ran but I suspect to achieve full boost pressure around 2500 RPM under moderately high, to high throttle position. I will post pics of the turbo mounted , just waiting on photo bucket.

[Subaru Alliance]

some more photos. Now keep in mind here guys, anyone else who want a remote mount turbo, if you use a smaller turbo you can keep your spare tire well in tact LOL. I also took two videos once i figure out to upload those you can see and hear it in action.
This one is from the front seat looking back into the trunk area.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120221_092445.jpg

This one is looking into the trunk.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120221_092255.jpg

Here is the catch can, oil pump, and trans cooler.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120221_092328.jpg

[redlightningsvx]

What are you going to do about exhaust fumes and water coming in the trunk to the cabin?

[92 SVX]

What are you going to do about exhaust fumes and water coming in the trunk to the cabin?

my guess is he plans to wield in a panel after all the plumbing is done.:D

[Subaru Alliance]

so for an update I am actually surprised at how fast this thing "spools" I won't know for sure till I get the boost gauge on it and get it plumbed to the throttle body, but my guess is even though I have the turbo at the back of the exhaust system I am getting a more even flow of exhaust across the turbine. With a typical setup with the turbo close to the engine the exhaust is hitting the turbine in pulses, with my set up the gas has time to cool a bit and contract on the way to the turbo, even though it may still be in pulses, I think it's more even across the turbine and contributing to the spool time. Once the car is warmed up and idling at some 700 RPM there is not enough pressure to spin the turbo, if you rev it up to about 1000 the turbo will spin. I also haven't hooked up the fan on the trans cooler because I am surprised at how cool the oil is. I have a digital oil temp and water temp gauge coming that have a range of 70-300 something farenheit and I bet most of the time the fluid temps won't even get hot enough to register on the gauge, maybe in the heat of georgia's summer it may hang out around 115 tops. That is all speculation at this point but we will know soon enough.

As far as the big hole in my trunk area I was gonna make a lid for it out of fiberglass, but one of my soldiers gave me a good idea to make it out of plexiglass so it can be seen with the lid on, and able to see leaks and what not. I may go that route, regardless it is gonna get sealed up somehow.

Next is gonna be plumbing for the liquid cooling side, I received my brake rotors so I think I will install those with the ceramic pads this weekend. Will keep this thread updated as progress is made.

[cthommes]

A couple points-

1) I hope you're planning a bracket of some sort to mount the turbo? Using the exhaust as the only structural support is not a good idea. Forgive me if I missed something in the thread or pics that cover this already.

2) Regarding spool, with no restriction on the intake side, the "spool" you're witnessing is deceptive. In reality, a typical turbo would be spinning at idle without any instake restrictions. It's expected that it may not in a remote mount setup.

3) Exhaust heat is your friend with turbos. Cooling of the exhast charge prior to the turbine is not in any way beneficial.

4) Use caution running a turbo without any intake restriction. If you try to wind her up and see what she'll do, the turbo could very easily overspin.

[Subaru Alliance]

@ cthommes answers for your questions.

1) as everything is mounted right now, there is the factory exhaust hanger located just in front of the muffler (on a stock setup) and that is what is bearing the weight of the turbo at this point. I do plan on tying into the remaining factory mounts at the back bumper side.

2) I am not certain, but I would think that any turbo sized for the application would be spinning at idle, regardless of where it was mounted in the exhaust stream. I think this turbo (GT35) is a touch on the to big side and that is why is doesn't spin at idle. It will spin when the car is first started and is at high idle but once warmed and it idles down it doesn't spin. I believe if I were using something smaller like say a GT30 it would spin at idle, being that a smaller turbo would have less weight for the exhaust stream to overcome. I am not 100% sure but this sounds accurate to me.

3)I agree with you on this note. I was simply referring to it having a chance to cool and contract slightly so instead of exhaust hitting the turbine in say 90% pulses and 10% steady flow in a typical setup, this setup may be in the range of 40% pulses and 60% steady flow (the numbers are just for example)

4) thank you for the tip. Lucky for me I haven't tried to give her all she's got, but none the less I hadn't thought about overspinning the turbo, and now that you have posted that it makes sense about the intake restriction, so thanks.

I appreciate the questions and suggestions from everyone, Keep in mind tho that this is not the final product, at this point it is still in the mock up/ experiment stage, I was actually surprised with how well it's going, I planned on a few leaks here, and having to install and then uninstall a few times to get the kinks worked out.

I am pretty stubborn and hard headed, a lot of people here around me didn't think it would work, or didn't understand how it would work and there fore were dismissive of the idea. I am glad the "board" as a whole is keeping me on my toes, because your ideas and suggestions are helping to be sure I don't overlook something.

An update on the build, I just got an e-mail that the stage 2 tune has shipped, I would like to do the engine swap this weekend, but I am gonna have to arm wrestle my wife (she wants to do something this weekend) or push it off to the following weekend. I can get my brakes knocked though and possibly get the MAF mounted. We will have to see.

[icingdeath88]

2) I am not certain, but I would think that any turbo sized for the application would be spinning at idle, regardless of where it was mounted in the exhaust stream. I think this turbo (GT35) is a touch on the to big side and that is why is doesn't spin at idle. It will spin when the car is first started and is at high idle but once warmed and it idles down it doesn't spin. I believe if I were using something smaller like say a GT30 it would spin at idle, being that a smaller turbo would have less weight for the exhaust stream to overcome. I am not 100% sure but this sounds accurate to me.

Having looked at quite a few compressor maps, I feel confident enough to say that a GT35 will definitely be oversized on a stock block. It's also big enough that it will surpass the fuel supplied by LAN's stage 2 stuff. A GT30 is slightly oversized even.

With a hydra, with 750 or 550cc injectors, on a lower compression built motor, a GT35 is reasonable.

Of course, now that you've got it all put together, see how it goes.

The MAF I strongly recommend keeping down-stream of the turbo, closer to the intake for several reasons. For one, a BOV will work as long as it's pre-MAF, since it won't affect the reading of how much airflow is actually making it into the throttle bodies. If it's post-MAF, then any air that's blown off will have already been read, and the ECU will still inject fuel for that air so it will run rich for a couple seconds. Second, the MAF voltage is pretty low, and low voltage tends to droop with increased wire length. If you take it all the way to the trunk that would probably be low enough to affect readings. Best to play it safe and keep it in the engine bay. It does require that the intake air be low enough to work with the MAF. I really think that some intercooling is in order with this setup, regardless of where you put the MAF, but that's one more reason. Also, the closer to the throttle bodies the MAF is, the more accurate and "on-time" the airflow reading will be to the ECU. Another reason is that Phil (the guy who build the green turbo (GT30)/intercooled/stage2/N62 MAF/370cc injector SVX) got a much better idle and overall running when he moved the MAF to a foot before the throttle bodies instead of just before the turbo. And nothing beats experience :) (especially since there's so precious little when it comes to turboing SVXes).

I like this project a lot, hope it works really well. I also really like the pace you're working on it at. I must admit I was kinda skeptical of the whole rear-mount thing, but seeing it all put together is intriguing. I like the idea of a clear cover for the trunk area that lets you see the turbo. If you make it pretty then it will be a hit at car meets and such. And even if it is oversized, that big turbo looks beastly in there.

And thanks for inspiring me to get back in my garage to work on my own slow-moving turbo project. :) You may have some competition soon.

[Subaru Alliance]

LOL thanks icingdeath, I hope to have some competition soon. not for competition's sake, but for the svx sake. (to many people have either forgotten about SVX's or have never known about them) at least here where I am at.

As for the MAF I am thinking of running a bigger gauge wire say a 14 or something and running the wires back to the turbo, but I was also thinking of running the MAF close to the throttle body, (need your guys help here) but for that to work it would have compressed air moving through it and I am not sure how that would work out. If I left it in the stock location then I would have to pipe it back to the turbo, then pipe from the turbo back to the throttle body and I think that is just to much piping. I know the gt35 is a beast, but I am going for more of a CFM build instead of a high boost build at this point, once I get some boost friendly pistons then I can start going higher boost, but that will be a long time down the road, as for now it's really more of an experiment at this point, (I like to think of it as an EDUCATED EXPERIMENT ;D) but it's gonna be some trial and error for a little while.

I think I will be good with LAN's tune and running 8psi for now, but if not I will address that when it comes, maybe hafta go down to 5psi. It is coming along fairly quick and smooth, but this is my daily driver so that's why I am doing things in a way that will keep the car drivable but still overcoming some of the hurdles, for instance now when the stage 2 comes, I can do an engine swap and start plumbing the intake, instead of an engine swap and mounting the turbo.

I am satisfied with the oil system to the turbo, but I am gonna upgrade that pump, maybe here in another couple weeks, I think I will have most of the other stuff done, and then once I get the better pump, then put on the last piece(s) of intake plumbing and be good.

For now though I will focus on the liquid cooling side of the turbo, and the brake upgrade (rotors/pads) O yeah, I got my oil and water temp gauges in so I can start mounting and wiring those as well.

[icingdeath88]

As for the MAF I am thinking of running a bigger gauge wire say a 14 or something and running the wires back to the turbo, but I was also thinking of running the MAF close to the throttle body, (need your guys help here) but for that to work it would have compressed air moving through it and I am not sure how that would work out.

It will work fine as long as the air is cool. (I'm guessing you know how a MAF works, but for everyone else's sake) A MAF meter works by heating a wire to a particular temperature and then measuring the voltage required to maintain that temperature with the air moving past it and trying to cool it. The more air, the more voltage required to maintain the wire at that temperature. If the air is warm, then it doesn't work very well, since warm air won't cool that wire very well. In a stock turbo subaru setup, the MAF is pre-turbo, and the use of a bypass valve instead of a blow off valve, keeps the airflow measured by the MAF proportional to the air that actually enters the throttle body. Since in this remote-mount setup, a BPV would mean running another pipe all the way back to before the turbo (but after the MAF). That's a lot of plumbing, so you'll need a BOV.

But for that to work, you'll also need some kind of intercooling, which probably would be a good idea anyway. I bet an air-to-water setup would be a really great idea with this setup. Just stick one of these guys (http://www.frozenboost.com/index.php?cPath=218&osCsid=3d2c0492b5d7f3e967bbd2030bdb04d2) along the pipe carrying the pressurized air from the turbo to the front, and stick the heat exchanger up by the radiator somewhere. Would work beautifully.

I know the gt35 is a beast, but I am going for more of a CFM build instead of a high boost build at this point, once I get some boost friendly pistons then I can start going higher boost, but that will be a long time down the road, as for now it's really more of an experiment at this point, (I like to think of it as an EDUCATED EXPERIMENT ;D) but it's gonna be some trial and error for a little while.

You're going in the opposite order from me. I'm building the engine first and then turboing it after.

Tapani (since I know you'll check this eventually), where is your MAF at and do you have a blow-off valve? I forget.

[STeeL25T]

LOL thanks icingdeath, I hope to have some competition soon. not for competition's sake, but for the svx sake. (to many people have either forgotten about SVX's or have never known about them) at least here where I am at.

QFT. I hate it that our cars are more often than not used a 'shipping container' for our engines, that get taken out and put in everything from Imprezas to Volkswagens to sand rails to airplanes.. but there really isn't anyone that has an honest to goodness "fast" SVX.

I aim to change this :) Glad to have some one else on the force.

[Subaru Alliance]

well said steel25t and icing death.

@icingdeath and @steel25t your build will definitely be much more reliable than mine as far as making BIG power. I like the way you went with your project which focused on building the engine first.

My project on the other hand is aimed at turboing the engine first (due to budget, I knew I could turbo it cheaper than internals). I do plan on getting the whole works, cams, pistons, rods, etc. but for now it is unrealistic as far as my budget goes. But for now I feel I will be fine on stock internals with like I said 8psi, but if need be I can go less boost. Also as far as I know the limits of a stock EG33 haven't been tested. maybe I will have great luck running maybe up to 10psi on factory internals, I don't know. My only real concern at this point is not rods pistons bearings etc., It's actually cylinder pressures. I wish there were some sort of equation I could use to somehow calculate this into something I can easily relate too, for example 10:1 compression ratio add 3PSi boost equals 10.4:1 CR 6 psi of boost equals 10.8:1 CR and my setup at 8psi equals 11.3:1 CR. those numbers are just an example, but that is where I feel the weak point is for my build, not rods or pistons, but cylinder pressures that enjoy popping head gaskets every 3 days. (hopefully not)

Also just an example I was digging around on the nasioc forums and found a post talking about the 1991-94 EJ22T being able to take 26psi on factory internals, and according to the post the guy has scattered a few of those engines and came to the conclusion through his own experience that 26psi is the highest safe amount of boost, he said 27psi is where eventually rods would fail taking some time to bend and break.

that is just a reference and as I said earlier to my knowledge no one has tested the limits of a stock EG33. Not that I plan on doing it with my daily driver, but who knows, maybe after all this I can say there are no issues running a stock EG @8psi. worst case scenario i scatter this engine, I do have a spare but that would take away from another project of swapping EG33 into the Baja. shhh! thats another thread.

Also as far as the MAF goes I do know how they work but haven't ever thought of running it upstream of the turbo, just didn't want so much air moving over it that it can't take accurate readings. I guess it would be the same amount of air regardless because if your making boost then your drawing a higher flow of air through the MAF anyways. I think that will be the simpler way to go, relocate my MAF from the stock air box to just behind the throttle body.

Also as for the BOV, to be completely honestI will only hit that thing purposely probably the first time everything is done to verify it works, and I don't think in my normal driving I will ever hit it, and if for reason I did, It would literally be some sort of emergency situation like accelerating onto the free way just to make the corner and see traffic stopped. Other than that, I roll onto the throttle and roll off of it as the situation allows, i never get on it and then jump off the throttle, situation dictates of course, but it's not in my driving habits to do so.

[1986nate]

well said steel25t and icing death.

@icingdeath and @steel25t your build will definitely be much more reliable than mine as far as making BIG power. I like the way you went with your project which focused on building the engine first.

My project on the other hand is aimed at turboing the engine first (due to budget, I knew I could turbo it cheaper than internals). I do plan on getting the whole works, cams, pistons, rods, etc. but for now it is unrealistic as far as my budget goes. But for now I feel I will be fine on stock internals with like I said 8psi, but if need be I can go less boost. Also as far as I know the limits of a stock EG33 haven't been tested. maybe I will have great luck running maybe up to 10psi on factory internals, I don't know. My only real concern at this point is not rods pistons bearings etc., It's actually cylinder pressures. I wish there were some sort of equation I could use to somehow calculate this into something I can easily relate too, for example 10:1 compression ratio add 3PSi boost equals 10.4:1 CR 6 psi of boost equals 10.8:1 CR and my setup at 8psi equals 11.3:1 CR. those numbers are just an example, but that is where I feel the weak point is for my build, not rods or pistons, but cylinder pressures that enjoy popping head gaskets every 3 days. (hopefully not)

Also just an example I was digging around on the nasioc forums and found a post talking about the 1991-94 EJ22T being able to take 26psi on factory internals, and according to the post the guy has scattered a few of those engines and came to the conclusion through his own experience that 26psi is the highest safe amount of boost, he said 27psi is where eventually rods would fail taking some time to bend and break.

that is just a reference and as I said earlier to my knowledge no one has tested the limits of a stock EG33. Not that I plan on doing it with my daily driver, but who knows, maybe after all this I can say there are no issues running a stock EG @8psi. worst case scenario i scatter this engine, I do have a spare but that would take away from another project of swapping EG33 into the Baja. shhh! thats another thread.

Ummm, do some reading. The limits of the EG33 have clearly been tested. Why don't you take a look at how many engines YT blew up.:rolleyes:
EJ22t, is a completely different animal. Completely forged internals, closed deck, and low compression. The EG33 is open deck, high compression and the pistons are not forged, which is why ring lands are the first thing to fail.

Also, Phil's old car has been running 9psi on 93 oct and 15psi on e85 for a few years now. There is a lot more info around than you have found. (have you even searched?)

[Subaru Alliance]

Ummm, do some reading. The limits of the EG33 have clearly been tested. Why don't you take a look at how many engines YT blew up.
EJ22t, is a completely different animal. Completely forged internals, closed deck, and low compression. The EG33 is open deck, high compression and the pistons are not forged, which is why ring lands are the first thing to fail.

Also, Phil's old car has been running 9psi on 93 oct and 15psi on e85 for a few years now. There is a lot more info around than you have found. (have you even searched?)

I have used the high speed search function on several occasions, usually there are to many results to get the info. like searching for turbo yields so many results you can't find what you want.
I know the EJ22T is a different animal I was merely using it as an example.
I didn't realize Phil's old car was running 9psi on 93 octane so thanks for that information, it puts my mind at ease a little bit.
I also just searched for "ring lands" and found an informative thread so I may have been using too broad of search terms and getting spammed with results.
I am not trying to take anything away from any of the members here.
In any case Thanks 1986nate

[Tapani]

:)

My MAF is in the stock location, I even run the stock airbox. No ill effects.... idles just fine.

I have a Forge by pass valve. Also, the engine breather system is stock. The PCV valve is plumbed to the pressure box and the cam cover breathers to the compressor intake. Check the photos in my first post in this thread.

Works really well at least at 5PSI. The engine vacuum is sufficient for the brake booster and all other stuff work too.

I haven't tried the cruise at speeds where the engine runs at boost conditions all the time, tho :eek:.

Good luck, Alliance !

Tapani



Tapani (since I know you'll check this eventually), where is your MAF at and do you have a blow-off valve? I forget.

[icingdeath88]

Also just an example I was digging around on the nasioc forums and found a post talking about the 1991-94 EJ22T being able to take 26psi on factory internals, and according to the post the guy has scattered a few of those engines and came to the conclusion through his own experience that 26psi is the highest safe amount of boost, he said 27psi is where eventually rods would fail taking some time to bend and break.

Absolutely, completely, 100% different animals, not comparable at all. The EJ22 is somewhat comparable to our engines, the EJ22t is not. For all the reasons Nate listed. 8-9psi on the stock internals is your limit, intercooled. Less if not intercooled, more if intercooled and tuned well on a hydra.

Tapani is at 5 psi, non-intercooled, with a pretty small turbo, and running the stage 2 stuff as well. Tom's supercharged car was at 9 with a hydra. Phil is at 9, intercooled, on the stage 2 stuff. Sicksubie's supercharged car I think is running a lot more, but on a fully built engine and a hydra.

You'll also find that you're limited by the 370cc injectors to around 380hp, unless you increase the fuel pressure (you already have a bigger fuel pump, right?). It only takes 10-11 psi to get 380 hp worth of air. If you try to do more than 9 psi of boost, you'll need bigger injectors, which means either a hydra or asking LAN to make you a ROM for 550cc injectors, which I'm sure he can do. The N62 (=Z32) MAF is good for 450-500 HP, I forget. It won't be the bottleneck at the boost levels we're talking about.

... searching for turbo yields so many results you can't find what you want.

This is very true. I have actually gone through all the old posts I could find about turbo/supercharging these, it took a long time to find those useful little nuggets of information.

My MAF is in the stock location, I even run the stock airbox. No ill effects.... idles just fine.

I have a Forge by pass valve. Also, the engine breather system is stock. The PCV valve is plumbed to the pressure box and the cam cover breathers to the compressor intake. Check the photos in my first post in this thread.

Works really well at least at 5PSI. The engine vacuum is sufficient for the brake booster and all other stuff work too.

So your MAF sees the airflow before it enters the turbo, and then the BPV cycles it back to between the turbo and MAF? That is a very good setup.

I haven't tried the cruise at speeds where the engine runs at boost conditions all the time, tho :eek:.

The cruise control vacuum is supplied by a vacuum pump hidden under the fuse box, not the actual engine vacuum. :) So you should have no problems with cruise control at any boost level.

[1986nate]

sicksubie-supercharged, no cooling, built low compression completely forged internals, hydra, 14psi (it's limited because of the pulley setup)

YT-9psi non cooled supercharged, no problems
12psi non cooled, bye bye ring lands
above was all using the ecutune software, stock engines with typically near 200k miles
12psi, meth injection, custom-one off intake manifold, hydra, near 200k mile stock block, seemingly no issues but wasn't run all too much before selling it to Rob who went back to the 9psi pulley and removed meth injection as it is illegal in autocross. I can't remember if he went to water injection though.

Phil-9psi 93 octane tune using ecutune stage 2, blowthrough maf, BIG front mount intercooler, stock, low mileage engine, also utilizing an AFPR

I believe these 3 are the most "extreme" setups that the info is truly "out there" for.

[1986nate]

This is very true. I have actually gone through all the old posts I could find about turbo/supercharging these, it took a long time to find those useful little nuggets of information.

^This....
So many people want a quick answer and don't want to read through all the information readily available.

I have read through them all as well ;)

[STeeL25T]

I got a forged low compression block, stock heads and stock WRX trans... If it works, I'll let you know what it does with a turbocharger and water to air intercooler in 3 or 4 months.

[Subaru Alliance]

good stuff guys I appreciate all the info. As far as the EJ22T LOL I didn't mean it as a comparison between that engine and the SVX, I was just using it as a reference to how well documented it's limitations were on factory internals. These last couple three or four posts have pretty much showed the limitations of the EG33 and I am truly thankful for that. Like I said I don't want to be testing the limits on my daily driver and it puts my mind at ease to know that there has been success with factory internals @9psi. Since I will be running 8psi for the time being.

As an update for the build I installed the cross drilled rotors F/R and ceramic pads F/R. I also got the ecutune stage 2 in the mail today. My wife wants to go to a birthday party on saturday so I am gonna try to get the engine swap completed tomorrow, not sure how close I will get since I am working it alone with a doctors appt at 11 so that will soak up a few hours of time that could otherwise be devoted to the swap. more to come in a couple hours.

[Subaru Alliance]

Ok I just got done eating dinner but I am back now. as I said I am gonna start on the engine swap a little bit tonight, maybe get coolant draining, and start yanking out the radiator. I would like to have it done by tomorrow at dinner time.

another update on the build, I was poking around and there seemed to be a droplet of oil on the output side of the turbo, may have been some residue from pulling the supply line while the pump was running to check for flow, but just to be safe I have put an oil fitting with restrictor in my shopping cart online to reduce oil flow, and up the pressure on the bearing. My neighbor guy was saying if oil leaks past the seals then you need to get one of the fitting with the restrictor in it, and then go bigger or smaller restriction based on results, so I got that coming as a just in case. apparently if it leaks past the seals then you need to reduce the pressure, but in my case there isn't much pressure maybe 5psi but it's high volume, maybe it's supplying the oil faster than it can drain, it is just a gravity drain. We will see. now that I have seen it, I will keep a close eye on it. also I checked the oil level in my reservoir and it is still full, so at this point I am not super worried, but I will monitor it closely. I haven't been driving much lately, jacked up my left eye over the weekend, minor incident, no permanent damage so you can relax LOL. Anyways will update tomorrow hopefully with the engine swapped.

[Subaru Alliance]

I didn't make as good a progress as I wanted to, but got the MAF swapped, exhaust loose, coolant drained and the radiator and fans are out of the way. I will start again tomorrow morning, but I have an appointment, so after that I will hit it hard and hopefully get the new engine dropped in and hooked up. Once that is done I have a few more small things to do before I plumb the turbo into the intake, cut a hole in my exhaust and mount the waste gate, plumb the liquid cooling side of the turbo, then I can run it to the intake. I also need to install my oil and water temp gauges and boost gauge, and swap out my o2 sensors. we'll see how much I can get done this weekend. I will shoot for driving the car by sunday morning.

[Subaru Alliance]

just updating to say THE ENGINE I SSTILL IN THE CAR. how cool is that? I tell ya how cool that is, I was working on it making some good headway, and then luckily georgia decided that today was MONSOON day. so now there is pond in my driveway.

Anyways I have about 10 mins of work on the bottom, 2x motor mounts, 2x trans stud nuts, and 1 o2 sensor wire to unplug.
On top the engine I have the starter wires, trans bolts, torque converter bolts, 1 heater hose and I believe that's it, then jack up the trans, lift the engine out.

On my re built (stock with new engine gasket set) engine it chunked the keyway on the crank snout and damaged the crank pulley. I welded and sanded it into a permanent keyway, the (original to the engine) timing belt drive pulley (the one behind the crank pulley that drives the t-belt) also broke so I swapped the (original to the car) one onto the rebuilt engine, as well as the alternator. new timing belt and accessory belts. If that stuff had already been done the engine would undoubtedly be outside the car right now, but none the less, if the weather cooperates with me tomorrow the swap should be done tomorrow evening.

[Subaru Alliance]

Another update on the update. Got the engine out, engine bay degreased, as well as both engine degreased. I had to swap a handful of little things over, a few bolts for the coil on plugs, a few hoses, clamps etc. etc. Hopefully i will complete the swap tomorrow by say dinner time, and then add fluids and fire it up. I didn't make any progress plumbing the turbo piping or anything yet, that will be the last thing to do. Once the swap is buttoned up, then I still need to cut a hole in my exhaust to mount the external waste gate, then I can start the plumbing.

[icingdeath88]

Take some pics man. :)

[Subaru Alliance]

I did take some pics, but I am disappointed and it's late so I will likely post them up tomorrow. I got the engine swapped over, the MAF wired in, and the stage 2 ecu swapped over, however when I went to crank the engine over, my tachometer started break dancing, and my fuel pump relay stared having a seizure. I messed around with it for a while, swapped out the relay with another and the same seizure was happening. I tried to jump power to the fuel pump from the fuse panel bypassing the relay and my dash lights that come on in the run position would come on in the acc position. I checked my grounds and re checked them, remove my jumper wire and the dash lights went off. Upon more investigation, it seems the engine harness on my 92 donor engine is different from the body harness on my 94 daily driver. I took a picture of the connectors from the 94 engine and compared it side by side to the wires on the 92 engine in the car and they are in fact different. so it looks like I will yanking intake manifolds off and swapping engine harnesses around, so my 92 donor engine will have the 94 engine harness on it. I will post up some pics of the differences tomorrow because it's late now and I have to work in the morning. I was excited to fire this thing up, but now I am at the mercy of whether or not these manifolds are gonna cooperate with me.

[Tapani]

Just a note, I am sure you are aware of this.... the stage 2 won't work w/o the N62 MAF and 370cc injectors.

Kind regards and good luck with your project !

Tapani

[icingdeath88]

I did take some pics, but I am disappointed and it's late so I will likely post them up tomorrow. I got the engine swapped over, the MAF wired in, and the stage 2 ecu swapped over, however when I went to crank the engine over, my tachometer started break dancing, and my fuel pump relay stared having a seizure. I messed around with it for a while, swapped out the relay with another and the same seizure was happening. I tried to jump power to the fuel pump from the fuse panel bypassing the relay and my dash lights that come on in the run position would come on in the acc position. I checked my grounds and re checked them, remove my jumper wire and the dash lights went off. Upon more investigation, it seems the engine harness on my 92 donor engine is different from the body harness on my 94 daily driver. I took a picture of the connectors from the 94 engine and compared it side by side to the wires on the 92 engine in the car and they are in fact different. so it looks like I will yanking intake manifolds off and swapping engine harnesses around, so my 92 donor engine will have the 94 engine harness on it. I will post up some pics of the differences tomorrow because it's late now and I have to work in the morning. I was excited to fire this thing up, but now I am at the mercy of whether or not these manifolds are gonna cooperate with me.

You are putting a 92 engine into a 94 body or vice-versa? They should be plug-and-play, I have a 92 engine in my 94, there were no issues whatsoever.

[1986nate]

You are putting a 92 engine into a 94 body or vice-versa? They should be plug-and-play, I have a 92 engine in my 94, there were no issues whatsoever.

92 engine going in a 94 will need the intake manifold swapped. The 93+ and 92Cali spec cars use an EGR temp sensor that will throw a code. If you are using ECUtune, no need to worry as it is based off a 92 ECU.

[Subaru Alliance]

does the entire intake manifold have to be swapped, or will the engine harness suffice?

[icingdeath88]

92 engine going in a 94 will need the intake manifold swapped. The 93+ and 92Cali spec cars use an EGR temp sensor that will throw a code. If you are using ECUtune, no need to worry as it is based off a 92 ECU.

Right, it will throw a code because of the missing sensor, but the harnesses are physically compatible. They will plug into each other no problem and all the other wires match up correctly.

I don't think he should need to swap the harnesses.

[Subaru Alliance]

I will post some pics later on today. from what I see so far it will be necessary to swap the harness and the intake itself. I see the temp sensor located at the EGR. and from what I have seen so far, the harness plug is the same, but some of the wires are in different locations on the plug. I am referring to the main plugs at the back passenger side of the engine, of instance on the 94 engine harness there is a wire in the top right location of the top right main pug in, but on the 92 harness that wire location is blank. that's just one of the differences I saw right away. I will post up some pics of the harnesses so you can "see" what I am talking about.

[Subaru Alliance]

here are some photos quick. this one is a picture of the 94 ENGINE HARNESShttp://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120227_125117.jpg

Here is a picture of the 92 ENGINE HARNESS
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120227_125143.jpg

Notice that the first pic of the 94, the left connector has 1 wire missing on the top row, and the SECOND CONNECTOR has the first row of wires full. You will see in the second picture that the left connector has the same wire missing on the top right , but NOTE THAT THE SECOND CONNECTOR ON THE 92 ALSO HAS THE TOP RIGHT WIRE MISSING. this was just kinda the first thing i noticed, even though the connectors plug in together I am willing to bet there are more wires in different locations with the symptoms being, the door chime doesn't work anymore (may or may not be a result of the swap) the file pump doesn't cycle, the fuel pump relay has a seizure when keyed up, and the tach hangs out at 2K RPM until I crank the engine then it moves around anywhere from 0-2K RPM while cranking, and when the key is returned to the ON position from cranking the engine over the tach goes back to 2,000 RPMs. I will continue to update. and will post more pics later on.

[Subaru Alliance]

O man, I just looked at the pics and holy smokes guys, I guess a can of de-greaser and pressure washing is in store for the one still on the engine stand LOL

[Subaru Alliance]

more progress. I got the intake off the 94 the hoses are all dried out and most are cracked so I will be replacing them, hopefully I can get some vacuum hose today after work. One of the air valves under there broke off both of the plastic nipples, I broke one of them trying to remove the hose, the other may have been broken already not real sure but I will get a few pics up and with your help can identify the name of the part. I found the write up my mychallio about taking the intake off with the fuel rails and the injector harness all off together as a unit so I will try that on the 92 (which is in the car). I am pretty sure the fuel rail aided me in breaking a few hoses since I removed just the upper intake manifold and left the fuel rails and everything else mounted. Live and learn right? At least with your help more learning and less damaging things.

[Subaru Alliance]

It's been a few days but I am working on the intake manifold swap, does anyone know if the ENTIRE ENGINE HARNESS needs to be swapped, or is the difference just in the INJECTOR HARNESS? I am looking and it seems the injector harness is all that need be changed, but it's a lot of work to put it all back together and after trying to start it realize that it has to come apart again to swap the other harness over. Any help is appreciated

[Subaru Alliance]

I have to say I think Georgia hates me. making some good progress and now it's raining cats and dogs, according to the radar it's still gonna be raining at 7 tonight. I am gonna pull the car into my carport a little more so I can get this finished up.

[Subaru Alliance]

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120303_160936.jpg
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120303_160920.jpg

I also posted this up in the technical forum. these nipples are broken off and my parts one had one of them broken off. what is it? and what does it do? will there be any ill effects of just bypassing it? thanks

[icingdeath88]

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120303_160936.jpg
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120303_160920.jpg

I also posted this up in the technical forum. these nipples are broken off and my parts one had one of them broken off. what is it? and what does it do? will there be any ill effects of just bypassing it? thanks

Purge control solenoid. Do you care about passing emissions or not? And having the charcoal canister working? Because if not, you can block off the lines going to and from it and wrap it up so it doesn't get any dirt/junk in it, and just leave it plugged in. It's not necessary to the operation of the car at all, but it helps with emissions just a tad. Search "charcoal canister", I have posted info about it before.

[Subaru Alliance]

@icingdeath88 thanks for the fast reply, I am not worried about emissions as I was looking at it I thought to myself it looked like it was related to the charcoal canister. I appreciate it, it's gonna get blocked off so I can get this thing running tonight.

[icingdeath88]

@icingdeath88 thanks for the fast reply, I am not worried about emissions as I was looking at it I thought to myself it looked like it was related to the charcoal canister. I appreciate it, it's gonna get blocked off so I can get this thing running tonight.

Just make sure to block off the vac line that goes to the small metal nipple (the one on the left) on top of the throttle body, otherwise you'll have a vacuum leak. Also you can get rid of the charcoal canister itself if you want.

[Subaru Alliance]

alright, I got everything back together and went to crank it over and my fuel pump relay must have a short in the circuit because it just clicks continuously. I swapped it out with another and the same thing. I am open to suggestions at this point. Tomorrow I will start troubleshooting that circuit and see what I come up with.

Also I put the key in the ignition and used the shift lock button to get it into neutral so I could move the car farther into my carport to work on it out of the rain. Once I got the car where I wanted it the ol lady pulled the e-brake for me and shut the door. I continued working on everything for a few more hours and totally forgot that it was still in the run position when I hooked up the battery, so there may be some damage to the ecu, I don't know.

Anyways troubleshooting tomorrow, and I will keep checking here and posting progress, I would like to drive this thing tomorrow but we will see what happens. Any suggestions welcome

[Subaru Alliance]

:lol: ok so another update. this issue with the fuel pump relay clicking apparently isn't limited to the fuel circuit so I have stopped dead in my tracks troubleshooting it and have moved on to something strange happening. when the car is in the run position, EVERYTHING is cycling. and by everything I mean literally everything, radiator fans, injectors are clicking most of the relays under the hood in the fuse box.


ANY IDEAS?

I have checked my grounds on the engine they are tight, even the ground on the fuel pump module has something like a half an ohm of resistance.
It almost seems to me like the ECU is in some sort of test mode or something. I will take it out and check to make sure it's grounded good as well as a visual inspection. more updates to come.

[Subaru Alliance]

I uninstalled the ECU, took the casing off of it and checked it out, nothing was burnt or fried on the top of it. I removed the circuit board from the lower half of the casing and checked that side as well, everything looks good. I reinstalled it and the car started normally. However there are some new issues.

The car doesn't want to idle at all. you have to rhythmically hit the throttle every second/second and a half to get it to stay running. I took it for a drive and there is NO POWER or throttle response at all. The only engine mods are the stage 2 tune, injectors, and MAF. Honestly the way the car feels is like it is running SUPER RICH, when driving it is really like being in one continuous misfire each cylinder taking it's turn at misfiring. The cool thing is I have already chopped and discarded the resistor in the ECU to use the tune. Can anyone take a photo of the resistor, I am gonna end up going to radio shack and getting another one to solder it back in place through a switch so I can do some further testing.

The car is totally unreliable at this point, so next on the agenda will be to re solder the resistor in place switched so I can at least put the engine back into the stock condition and have my daily driver back. At this point I will be waiting on a gasket set. Once again anyone with a photo of the resistor in place please post a pic on here. Thanks

[icingdeath88]

Do you have the ECU from the '92?

If you already have the SR20 injectors, and Z32 MAF installed, you have to stick with the stage 2 ECU ROM. I'm not sure what would happen otherwise, but it can't be good. Are the rom and adapter plugged in all the way?

Also, I was wrong about something before about the purge control solenoid. Both the little vac line nipples on the throttle body are related to the EGR. The next-biggest one on the passenger side is the one that should have been blocked off. :o

Check all over for vacuum leaks. Did you change the intake manifold gaskets to new gaskets?

[Subaru Alliance]

I have the ECU from the 92, the resistor was cut a while ago in preparation for the stage 2 tune. Once I got the swap done the first time and went to start it I realized I had to swap the intake wiring harness and intake manifold over, so I also chopped the resistor and used the stage 2 tune on the 94 ECU. the rom and adapter are plugged in all the way.

As far as running the stock tune on the bigger injectors and MAF that's pretty much what the car feels like, super rich and looking forward to bogging down and stalling out. I did replace the intake manifold gaskets, upper and lower. as far as the purge control solenoid one of the vacuum hoses went to the solenoid, the other went from the solenoid to the one on the passenger side top of the throttle body. I just ran a new hose from the original source, bypassed the solenoid and went to the throttle body. here are some good photos by mychailo. I didn't block off the next biggest one on the passenger side.
http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/How-To/30340.pdf
I will keep hunting for vacuum leaks I appreciate the reply

[Subaru Alliance]

o yeah, also i took out the charcoal canister, and ran a vacuum line connecting the two metal tubes together bypassing the charcoal canister, I really don't see where it will be leaking vacuum from, but I will try to take some pics of some of vacuum stuffs and post them on here

[icingdeath88]

That's not what you should have done. You should have blocked off the line on the throttle body. That is a vacuum leak sucking in fuel evaporating in the fuel tank. I do not know what that would cause. First, block off that port on the throttle body. When I ditched the charcoal canister in my car, I used the line that goes to the fender well and the check valve that was along the line before it to vent it. There needs to be somewhere for the pressure in the gas tank to go, just to be on the safe side.

[icingdeath88]

You can also try using the 92 ECU with the ROM. The plugs/pinouts are the same, you can use either ECU.

[Subaru Alliance]

thanks icingdeath88 I was not sure if the pinouts were the same or not, I will address these jacked vacuums I appreciate you showing the error of my ways, that may be the culprit since it is sucking in fumes from the fuel tank and it's after the MAF so it's unmetered, and it's enriched with fuel vapors, on paper it looks as tho that IS the cause but gimme a few to check it out and make some adjustments and then I will post again.

[Subaru Alliance]

:lol: this is getting better and better. I blocked off the one line with a small bolt just for testing purposes, but now the fuel pump is not cycling, when I jump the relay the pump kicks on but apparently there is no spark either. The car was just running like an hour ago. there is some sort of wiring issue or ground issue or something join on here. I will try to wiggle wires and what not to see if I can at least narrow down some of the affected area.

[Subaru Alliance]

no luck. I swapped out the ecu with the tune and still the same thing. It's like earlier but instead of cycling everything, it seems as though the ignition circuit is dead and the only thing functioning properly is the crank circuit. seems like if i wiggle some random wires then it may run, but as of now I am cranking a dead engine over. I will keep poking around to see what I can come up with.

[Subaru Alliance]

ok another update. I am running the 92 ECU with the stage 2 ROM. the 94 intake and intake wiring harness, on the 92 block.

If you can break the ignition circuit down to 2 sub circuits:

then it acts like sub circuit 1 is working properly which would be the dash gauges, dash lights, and the starter circuit. these all seem to be working properly.

Sub circuit 2 seems as if it's not functioning at all, which would be the fuel pump, injectors, and spark, and possibly MAF readings. the reason I suspect something like this, is because when I jump the fuel pump relay, the pump comes on, but the vehicle still won't start. I am gonna hit it with some starting fluid, that will tell me if the "spark circuit" is working or not. If it runs on starting fluid then spark is good, and injectors aren't opening.

I have replaced the fuel pump relay, and the main relay. still same issue. I will run some tests and get back on here with results.

[oab_au]

ok another update. I am running the 92 ECU with the stage 2 ROM. the 94 intake and intake wiring harness, on the 92 block.

If you can break the ignition circuit down to 2 sub circuits:

then it acts like sub circuit 1 is working properly which would be the dash gauges, dash lights, and the starter circuit. these all seem to be working properly.

Sub circuit 2 seems as if it's not functioning at all, which would be the fuel pump, injectors, and spark, and possibly MAF readings. the reason I suspect something like this, is because when I jump the fuel pump relay, the pump comes on, but the vehicle still won't start. I am gonna hit it with some starting fluid, that will tell me if the "spark circuit" is working or not. If it runs on starting fluid then spark is good, and injectors aren't opening.

I have replaced the fuel pump relay, and the main relay. still same issue. I will run some tests and get back on here with results.

Turn the key on, and check for 12V at the injectors, and the Ign coils.

Harvey.

[michael]

Stupid question but did you put the snorkel back on correctly?

[Subaru Alliance]

another update. I have narrowed it down to just the fuel circuit meaning the pump and the injectors. I give it a hit of starting fluid and it fires right up. However I don't think the issue with the pump and injectors are two separate issues, I think it is one common issue affecting both.

thanks for the advice harvey, I can assume the coils are good because it runs on starting fluid, I will however heed your advice about checking the injectors for voltage.

Yes I did put the snorkel back on correctly. This is the issue I was having yesterday, I pulled the ECU out and then took the casing apart to inspect everything, it was good, I put the same ECU (94) back in and then it fired right up but didn't want to idle, (icingdeath88 pointed my vacuums were jacked up) I make some corrections and tried to start the vehicle to test my corrections and now the same issue is back. Icingdeath88 also pointed out that the ECU's have the same pinouts between the 92 and 94, so I swapped the ECU's and the same problem persists. I will check for voltage at the injectors.

I think tomorrow I will swap the ECU's back and at least check that the ROM is still installed correctly, because I just noticed that my check engine doesn't illuminate when in the run position but without the engine running. not sure if this is normal but I did read that someone else had i think a stage 1v5 that fell out and they mentioned to hot glue it in.

On the ECUTUNE website it says you can key it up and the check engine light will illuminate to test that the ROM is installed correctly, but I am not sure if that is EVERY time, or just the FIRST time you key it up after installing the ROM?

[Subaru Alliance]

ok so after checking voltage at the injector I have about 9.5v at the front passenger side injector.

I checked the voltage at the coil, I unplugged the blue connector by the starter and checked voltage and got about a half a volt with it keyed up. but by the time I took the reading it had been setting keyed up for about 15-20 seconds.

[Subaru Alliance]

alright, I pulled the ecu out and took the case off the ROM was partially unplugged, so I took it all the way out and bent the connecting legs outwards on both sides just a little bit and plugged it back in. It definitely felt firmer going back into the socket so I don't think that will be an issue anymore. The car is still running the 92 ECU. Once I reinstalled the ecu the car started right up but still runs real rough. I got an injector tester, with the engine running I unplugged the injectors one at a time on the drivers side and plugged the tester in and it was lighting up in pulses. I did the same thing on the passenger side and nothing. I shut the car off(let it stall out) and disconnected the two grounds at the passenger back side of the intake manifold and lightly sanded them down, and put a dab of dielectric grease on them and re installed. checked the injectors again on the passenger side and all were good.

I took it for a short test drive and it was running decently, but after a trip around the block it started missing hard. I am thinking the passenger side injectors are intermittently missing. It still stalls out if you let it idle as though it has a big vacuum leak. I visually inspected the hoses and they all look good. I may hit around the intake with small shots of starting fluid to see if I can narrow down this vacuum leak.

I also unplugged the MAF while the engine was running and it stalled right out, (I think that means it's working).

The car also smoked real bad when I first started it up, but I held the throttle to maintain 2 - 2500 rpms and the smoke cleared up, and also the engine was running real good, no misses or anything, if you let off the throttle it will run good down to about 1500rpms and then it starts cackling and coughing and chokes itself down to stall out. The car also seemed to smell like fuel as though it were running rich(could just be me though). I will continue to trace down vacuums, as well as testing the injectors more tomorrow, the pain in the butt is from here on out I will need a second person to keep the engine running. :lol:

anyways there's the update for now. any ideas or suggestions are appreciated.

[92 SVX]

alright, I pulled the ecu out and took the case off the ROM was partially unplugged, so I took it all the way out and bent the connecting legs outwards on both sides just a little bit and plugged it back in. It definitely felt firmer going back into the socket so I don't think that will be an issue anymore. The car is still running the 92 ECU. Once I reinstalled the ecu the car started right up but still runs real rough. I got an injector tester, with the engine running I unplugged the injectors one at a time on the drivers side and plugged the tester in and it was lighting up in pulses. I did the same thing on the passenger side and nothing. I shut the car off(let it stall out) and disconnected the two grounds at the passenger back side of the intake manifold and lightly sanded them down, and put a dab of dielectric grease on them and re installed. checked the injectors again on the passenger side and all were good.

I took it for a short test drive and it was running decently, but after a trip around the block it started missing hard. I am thinking the passenger side injectors are intermittently missing. It still stalls out if you let it idle as though it has a big vacuum leak. I visually inspected the hoses and they all look good. I may hit around the intake with small shots of starting fluid to see if I can narrow down this vacuum leak.

I also unplugged the MAF while the engine was running and it stalled right out, (I think that means it's working).

The car also smoked real bad when I first started it up, but I held the throttle to maintain 2 - 2500 rpms and the smoke cleared up, and also the engine was running real good, no misses or anything, if you let off the throttle it will run good down to about 1500rpms and then it starts cackling and coughing and chokes itself down to stall out. The car also seemed to smell like fuel as though it were running rich(could just be me though). I will continue to trace down vacuums, as well as testing the injectors more tomorrow, the pain in the butt is from here on out I will need a second person to keep the engine running. :lol:

anyways there's the update for now. any ideas or suggestions are appreciated.
I would use throttle body cleaner, or wd40 as you may find worse case scenario's a little easier to deal with vs the starting fluid.

[Myxalplyx]

Very cool project! Thanks for sharing this with everyone. I'll be back on and off the site to be reading up on this one. Creative!

[Subaru Alliance]

good suggestion 92svx. I will go that route first( WD40/TB cleaner), and save the big guns (starting fluid) if I need it.

[Subaru Alliance]

You ever notice how the best stories always start out one of two ways?
1) Hold my beer...............
2) What happened was.......

So here's my story: What happened was, I bought some OEM replacement spark plugs (which had to be ordered) when I first started on the rebuild of the 92 engine. My wife helped me out by "cleaning" the carport for me. Once I was completed with the gasket set and all this, I couldn't find the OEM plugs anywhere, so I went and bought whatever cheap ones that were in stock that happened to fit the SVX. most places only had four in stick so after some running I found 6 and bought those. After installing them and dropping the engine in wouldn't you know it I found the OEM ones. I remember the 92 engine had a misfire when I started it in the 92 car before I pulled it out and I assumed it was a spark plug.

I also know that the 94 engine ran fine, so I decided to replace the spark plugs with the OEM ones and the coils with the 94. I only had really an hour of daylight left after work today so I swapped out the passenger side plugs and coils. So far this hasn't made a difference at all, but I will continue on with the drivers side tomorrow after work.

Once the drivers side is swapped out, if there is still no difference then I will troubleshoot the vacuum hoses (which I haven't even started on yet) and then continue on troubleshooting.

I am still in high spirits rather than let it get me down, I try to think of it as a test or a battle if you will, the fault is testing my ability to find and repair the issue.

Anyways that's it for today, as always suggestions are welcome. Oh and an update on the "build" is that I have received my heavy duty electric oil pump, which is 475GPH / 30something LPM @6psi. can run fluids at 100*C/212*F continuous temperature, and now I am waiting on my oil fitting.

[Subaru Alliance]

So what happened was....... I replaced all 6 spark plugs and coil packs. the car does run a little better, but still doesn't want to idle once warmed up. even when cold it struggles to idle but idles. I quickly hit the vacuums with some starting fluid and no change, so it doesn't appear to have a vacuum leak, but I will have the chance to check it out in more detail tomorrow. I will focus my efforts on checking all the vacuum lines one at a time.

Anyways that's the update, I will check it out again tomorrow.
So far replaced the plugs, and coils. unplugged the front two injectors on each side of the engine and it definitely made the rpms drop, so I know those injectors are good.

I will check out the remaining injectors, and the vacuum lines.

Also the check engine light is on, but I can't locate the connectors to see what codes it's throwing, I have looked all over under the dash with no luck.

I bet it's an easy fix, most likely something small I am overlooking, so tomorrow I will go picture crazy of what I can get and post it up on here so you can see what's goin on.

[Subaru Alliance]

another update. I replaced the throttle body because it was original to the car (94) and easy to do. no difference. I did get an automotive stethoscope from my neighbor and I have come to the conclusion that I have 1 or 2 intermittently dead injectors, so I am gonna have to start getting new injectors after checking my wiring again.

In the mean time I still have to cut a hole in my exhaust to mount the external waste gate, replace my oil fitting on the turbo, and electric oil pump, then plumb in the water cooling.

Here are some pics of what I could get from the vacuum hoses. Maybe someone will see something I missed.

In this picture the hose that is open on the intake doesn't have any vacuum on it, the one on the throttle body has a bolt in it. even a direct shot to both hoses with starting fluid makes no difference in idling.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120310_103505.jpg

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120310_103532.jpg

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120310_103601.jpg

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120310_103616.jpg

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120310_171808.jpg

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120310_171828.jpg

I hit all these hoses as best I could with the engine running with direct shots of starting fluid. Also the orange spot on the snorkel in photo 4 was that it had a crack on it right there, it was original to the car and idled fine on the other engine. I used RTV to seal up the crack, and once again a large shot of starting fluid to that spot directly had no effect on the engine. Also there is no guarantee that starting fluid will identify every case of vacuum leaks.

[icingdeath88]

How did you do the injector wiring? New Z32 plugs or modding the stock plugs to go into the SR20 injectors? The engine and everything is well grounded, right?

The injectors you got were used, right? They could just be bad. I am debating sending mine off for flow testing. I have 11 total though, so I was thinking to use the best 6 of the bunch.

[Tapani]

If the only issue is running real rich on idle is the FPR and its vacuum tube ok and correctly connected? Do you have a hand held vacuum pump?

With the stage 2 mine runs initially (after battery disconnection) quite rich before the adaption process corrects the AFR (fuel trim). Takes quite a while driving around....

If you keep the AC on the idle speed is around 900 rpm (w/o 575-600rpm). Does this make any better?

If you had a some kind of tool to see what the ECU is doing all this would be a lot easier. Time fo ECUTuner or something similar?

Br,

Tapani

[Subaru Alliance]

Yes I got used injectors, they came with the connectors already on them, so I de-pinned the OEM connectors and put the aftermarket ones on the stock harness. as far as I know the FPR is hooked up correctly, I will try to get a good pic of that tomorrow. Yes the engine is well grounded, I checked the starter ground, intake harness ground (back passenger side of intake), Horn bracket ground, and I moved the ground from the A/C bracket to the drivers front of the intake manifold. I don't think I forgot any, I will check the resistance from the block and intake to the battery tomorrow just to be safe.

thanks for the info tapani, I think I have noticed it running less and less rich at startup, but not sure if it was just me hoping. it is certainly starting to smoke less at startup and smell less and less like fuel at startup.

I do not have a hand held vacuum pump.
Luckily for me the A/C compressor is not installed which sux because she had some COLD COLD A/C to help combat the ANGRY georgia summers.

I appreciate the ideas, with our powers combined we can figure this out:lol:

[Tapani]

You should get a vacuum pump for $20 at your local autostore.... they come with a gauge too, quite handy.

If my memory serves me correctly the idle speed is increased even tho the compressor is disconnected if you press "AUTO" on the AC panel.

A leaking or stuck injector can be seen with for example the ECUTUner - you can monitor lambda values and fuel trim parameters separately for both banks. A fuel pressure issue will affect all cylinders......

One idea is to switch back to OEM injectors, MAF and software untill you get it running again ..... the stock MAF is good for at least 250hp worth of air. Mine saturated at around 5000 rpm @ 5 PSI boost. So it's all okay for testing purposes - even for the turbo system.

Br,

Tapani

PS And by running rich initially I mean AFR values around 13.... no fuel smell on the exhaust. After adaption it hovers nicely around 14,7 - like it should.
PS2 Did you replace /check the injector o-rings? A small seep will have the same effect as a leaking injector....

[Subaru Alliance]

that is a good idea tapani. the only issue will be is that both of my ECU's have the resistor chopped so it will ignore internal memory and look for the ROM socket. I suppose I could solder in a piece of wire just for testing sake but I am not sure how it will affect it just having a wire there instead of a resistor. I may go that route.

I have no idea why I didn't think of that, none the less I may give it a go. Also I will look for a vacuum pump tomorrow.
Yes I did replace the injector o rings. I can try the auto button on the climate control to see if that makes a difference. When the engine is cold it struggles to idle but idles, once it warms up it will stall out if left idling for more than 1.5-2 seconds.

[Tapani]

Get a new resistor from your local Radio Shack !

- edit: I measured mine - it reads 0.0 ohms and is completely blank - no markings.... hmmm. A resistor :eek: ?

Off to sheep hearding practise with Goofy the bordercollie :). Get some sleep and continue tomorrow !

T

[92 SVX]

that is a good idea tapani. the only issue will be is that both of my ECU's have the resistor chopped so it will ignore internal memory and look for the ROM socket. I suppose I could solder in a piece of wire just for testing sake but I am not sure how it will affect it just having a wire there instead of a resistor. I may go that route.

I have no idea why I didn't think of that, none the less I may give it a go. Also I will look for a vacuum pump tomorrow.
Yes I did replace the injector o rings. I can try the auto button on the climate control to see if that makes a difference. When the engine is cold it struggles to idle but idles, once it warms up it will stall out if left idling for more than 1.5-2 seconds.

Some ecu's came with a socketed rom part of a tsa I believe, mine did.

I live a hour, maybe 2 south of you I might be able to bring mine up, I have the stage 1 ecutune. I kept mine just incase but I could let you use it.
I will have to search around and find it again and I cant drive up there for a while though.

[92 SVX]

I could probably mail it to you in a few days, or less depending on when I could find it.

let me know if your interested.

[Subaru Alliance]

@92svx I would be interested in testing it out just to see what difference it would make.

As for an update, I put the original injectors in and the OE MAF and did a hasty install of the ecu. I put it all together and when I fired it up I had a MEAN fuel leak coming from the pressure regulator. I uninstalled it and saw the o-ring had a small chunk missing, so I swapped out the regulator and fired it up, it seemed to idle MUCH better when cold now. once it starts to drop off, I can tap the throttle and it goes up to about 1500 rpms and hangs out there for several seconds, however once warmed up, there is no difference at all. you have to continuously tap the throttle and sometimes it will stall out from about 1200 rpms as if you just turned off the key. Anyone know if a faulty sensor would cause this type of behavior? maybe Crank angle, or Cam angle on it's way out?????

Anyways here are a few pics of the hasty stock setup.
Here is a pic of the stock ECU, hanging by the wires and grounded to the steering column.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120316_152420.jpg
Another picture showing both ECU's in the car.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120316_152432.jpg
Here is a picture of the MAF connector. The way everything is spliced in I can swap between the MAF meters on the fly, of course for testing only.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120316_175424.jpg

[Subaru Alliance]

also I turned the climate control on auto and set the temp to the coldest and it didn't make any difference at all.

Also now that pretty much everything has been swapped over to the 92 block, meaning the 92 block now has the 94 intake, fuel rail, fuel pressure regulator, and intake wiring harness. This is what is leading me to believe it is a sensor of some sort. if it were something like low compression or a collapsed lifter or something of that nature it would have the symptom all the time, but in this case the symptom is it won't idle and was miss firing under load, I haven't take it back out to see if that has been fixed with this injector and MAF swap join back to stock ECU.

[Subaru Alliance]

Ok so for another update..........What had happened was........

So anyways, I decided what the hell, it's easy enough to swap out the cam angle sensor, so I swapped it out and fired up the car, Idling on a cold engine was dramatically improved. However once warmed up, it still doesn't want to idle. I also noticed the "teeth" on the timing belt drive pulley (behind the crank pulley) were half way sheared off, and they were "rubbing" on the timing belt tensioner pulley. I swapped out the front crank angle sensor and re timed the cams, because I replaced the tensioner with one that has the sleeve/washer on it.

If I am wrong on this, please correct me, HERE GOES

This leads me to believe and this is purely speculation, that when the engine is "cold" it must be using the cam sensor to control idling, once the engine warms up it must switch over to use the front crank sensor to control idling. Or maybe it uses the back crank sensor and the cam sensor for cold idling.

The reason I think it is something like this is because the car idles almost normal when cold, but when the t-stat opens and ecu reads the temp as warm, it's like the car loses something, as though it is looking for a signal that it's not getting. Anyways, I have some pics here of the teeth on the timing belt drive pulley, and the tensioner pulley with and without the sleeve. If anyone has a part number or anything for the timing "gear" in question please post it. I will also look around at napa, oreilly's etc.etc.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120316_190506.jpg

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120316_190513.jpg

[Subaru Alliance]

Looks like its gonna be a dealer part.
BTW did y'all know you can buy a reman engine from NAPA for 3700 bucks. nice huh?

[Tapani]

Have you checked both air valves? The "aux air control valve" controls high idle when the engine is warming up and then the "by-pass air control solenoid valve" controls the idle air flow under normal operating conditions (the ECU will balance the fuel flow).

If you're starving for air then it will be real rich before actually stalling. Try to introduce a tiny vacuum leak when it starts to stall. If you can keep it running this way then troubleshoot the idle air circuit with the manual. You have the FSM right?

If not, you can download everything here: http://phantomotaku.com/SVX/

Good luck and happy hunting!

Tapani

[Subaru Alliance]

Thanks for the info and the fsm, I am on my phone so I will download them to my cpu when I get home. The aux air valve, and the bypass air valves are original to the car, the only change was updating the vacuum hoses to them. I will still swap over the rear crank sensor since its so easy, but those air valves I will check those out as well, (just because they are original to the car doesn't mean they are good) although the engine ran fine before the swap.

As for the timing drive pulley, the one on my donor engine was jacked up and I saw it, I tried to bend the teeth just enough to clear the tensioner pulley and one of them broke off. When I saw it had done the same thing with this pulley I removed the tensioner pulley to add a washer to the back of it (rather than try to bend the teeth) and that's when I noticed the sleeve was missing. My spare timing pulley is the broken one, and the one on the car is well damaged to say the least. Anyone succesfully run a pulley in this condition? You can see in the photo the teeth are half way worn off and I wouldn't be surprised if it is bent in a way that the teeth no longer pass right under the sensor, instead they are kinda behind it now.

[redlightningsvx]

Hows your check valve

[icingdeath88]

Anyone succesfully run a pulley in this condition? You can see in the photo the teeth are half way worn off and I wouldn't be surprised if it is bent in a way that the teeth no longer pass right under the sensor, instead they are kinda behind it now.

You should definitely, definitely get a new crank sprocket.

[Subaru Alliance]

Hows your check valve

Which one are you referring to? the one on the vacuum reservoir (black box under the intake) has a new check valve installed.

Aso my Ol' Lady works at a repair shop and she had them order the sprocket for me at cost which was 35 dollars. should be in today or tomorrow.

As for another update, it's still running the same way, I haven't had the chance to check out the air valves as suggested by tapani. I have swapped the stage 2 stuff back over and will install the crank sprocket once it comes in. Then troubeshooting can continue based on how it runs with the new pulley installed.

[Subaru Alliance]

another update, the Ol' Lady sent me a picture of the part, to verify it's what I need. It is just now on order, coming from new jersey so it shoud be here in in a couple three or four days. and it was ony 26 bucks.

Anyways that's all to report for now.

[Subaru Alliance]

I got the new pulley in today. I installed it and it does run better but still not running right. I have narrowed down the issue to just the passenger side bank of the engine. I decided to do a compression test on it, and stopped after the second test on the very first cylinder (front passenger side) with a result the first time of 60psi and the second time with 70psi. On a fully warmed engine. I know right? I am no genius or anything but on a typical engine with 10:1 compression I would expect the numbers to be triple digits, and at the low end i would expect something in the range of 160psi at the low end. LUCKILY mine is hanging out in the 60-70 range. I will get ready to purchase cam seals and front crank seal and re use most of the other gaskets. I am gonna put the original engine back in, since it ran fine to begin with there is no need to yank the heads off it. In reality I swapped engines ONLY because the original has a few oil leaks here and there, so now it's much easier to replace the seals and gaskets with it on a stand. anyways here are some pics of the new crank sprocket and the welded keyway.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120327_143912.jpg

WELDED KEYWAY
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120327_143928.jpg

The welded keyway will accept stock, unmodified parts. I will try to get a better shot of the keyway.

[Subaru Alliance]

Ok so just some general babble to promote a bit of discussion here.

I am assuming the cam angle sensor is just for the tachometer.

The crank sprocket has two sets of teeth on it, the first set is 6 teeth and I am assuming it has to do with either spark, or injector pulse. The second set of teeth is 12 teeth arranged evenly around the pulley. I did a little division (with the help of my calculator on my cell phone) and have come up with 30 degrees. every 30 degrees of rotation one of the teeth on the pulley pass under the sensor. does anyone know what those teeth are for? I am thinking 12 teeth, divided by 6 cylinders gives me two. each cylinder will hit TDC twice per cycle, once on the compression, and once on exhaust. maybe these teeth tell the ECU when it is hitting TDC and the first set of teeth tell it when to inject the fuel, or when the spark the plugs?

Anyways just trying to get a bit of info or someone else's speculation on the matter.

This project hasn't been put on hold but has certainly lost momentum. I will tinker around with the exhaust work, and oil and water systems for the turbo a bit this weekend. Next weekend I will hit the engine swap hard since I will have four days to devote to it and I am working it alone. Hopefully then there will be a running SVX that I can start driving again. Thx for the info thus far, and I am sure I will lean on you guys for more info as the project (slowly) moves to completion.

[92 SVX]

I cant find that stock rom, I am unsure if your still needing it but I have to put on hold looking for it for now. Let me know if you may still need it I can look again later.

[Subaru Alliance]

@92SVX I appreciate the offer, but for now I will carry on with swapping the engine again, and with any luck it will cure my issues, so for now I will not be needing the ecu. thank you again for the offer.

[oab_au]

Ok so just some general babble to promote a bit of discussion here.

I am assuming the cam angle sensor is just for the tachometer.

The crank sprocket has two sets of teeth on it, the first set is 6 teeth and I am assuming it has to do with either spark, or injector pulse. The second set of teeth is 12 teeth arranged evenly around the pulley. I did a little division (with the help of my calculator on my cell phone) and have come up with 30 degrees. every 30 degrees of rotation one of the teeth on the pulley pass under the sensor. does anyone know what those teeth are for? I am thinking 12 teeth, divided by 6 cylinders gives me two. each cylinder will hit TDC twice per cycle, once on the compression, and once on exhaust. maybe these teeth tell the ECU when it is hitting TDC and the first set of teeth tell it when to inject the fuel, or when the spark the plugs?

Anyways just trying to get a bit of info or someone else's speculation on the matter.

This project hasn't been put on hold but has certainly lost momentum. I will tinker around with the exhaust work, and oil and water systems for the turbo a bit this weekend. Next weekend I will hit the engine swap hard since I will have four days to devote to it and I am working it alone. Hopefully then there will be a running SVX that I can start driving again. Thx for the info thus far, and I am sure I will lean on you guys for more info as the project (slowly) moves to completion.

The three timing sensors work to together. The No.1 has the 12 teeth, that sends a pulse every 30*. This is used to time all the operations such as spark and fuel injection, and drive the taco.

The No.2 has, three groups of teeth. 1 tooth, 2 teeth, and 3 teeth on it to tell the ECU which pair of pistons are at TDC, 1 and 2, or 3 and 4, or 5 and 6.

The Cam sensor, on the side of the engine tells the ECU which one of those pairs, 1 or 2, 3 or 4, 5 or 6, is on compression and ready to fire.

Harvey.

[Subaru Alliance]

+1 to harvey.

Thanks, makes sense. As I always tell my soldiers anyone can replace parts, but if you can understand how a system or component works, then it makes you better at your job, or better at troubleshooting.

anyways I appreciate the response.

The freakin power adapter on my MAC took a dump, so now I am restricted to this junkity computer that once unplugged will last 30 minutes tops. If it's not one thing it's another. So this week I wil do a small bit of tinkering on the SVX but the main focus is to get my neighbor guys car back to him. Then come next weekend I will have 4 and a half days I can devote to the SVX. I hope to get the engine swapped over and running again in 2 days. then I will have 2 days to swap out the oil fitting and pump for the turbo oil system, get the cooling system mounted and pumbed, and get the wastegate mounted. Of course if the weather wi permit such eager planning. We will see

[michael]

The three timing sensors work to together. The No.1 has the 12 teeth, that sends a pulse every 30*. This is used to time all the operations such as spark and fuel injection, and drive the taco.

The No.2 has, three groups of teeth. 1 tooth, 2 teeth, and 3 teeth on it to tell the ECU which pair of pistons are at TDC, 1 and 2, or 3 and 4, or 5 and 6.

The Cam sensor, on the side of the engine tells the ECU which one of those pairs, 1 or 2, 3 or 4, 5 or 6, is on compression and ready to fire.

Harvey.

What?
http://www.maximum-velocity.com/v7_i2_wc5.jpg

[oab_au]

:D.Well maybe Tachometer.:)

Harvey.

[Subaru Alliance]

ok so for an update, I got my MAC charger in so I am good on that now.

I also managed to get the engine pulled out of the car and most of the parts swapped over to the original engine. I need to install the intake manifold, double check a few things, drop the engine into the car, button it all up and then install the throttle body after the torque converter bolts. I had an incident today working on the engine, apparently the pin wasn't in on the cherry picker and when lowering it down to get it out the way( the engine was already safely on the floor), it slid forward and hit the engine that was on the ground, and cut through BOTH crank sensor wires on the 92 engine, but those wires on the 94 intake harness I need that is original to the car. DOES ANYONE KNOW FOR CERTAIN IF THE INTAKE HARNESS WITH THE WHITE CLIPS, THE ONE FOR THE SENSORS AND ETC. NEEDS TO BE SWAPPED OVER????

From the pics I posted of the differences in the intake harnesses (one has the two white plugs and the other has the the two gray plugs)was that the INJECTOR harness (gray plugs) is what is different. I am not sure if the other one with the WHITE PLUGS is different between 92's and 94's.

I would assume that harness is the same, but my assumptions thus far have proven to be very costly in terms of time spent on this build so far. In theory this should have been completed weeks ago. So if anyone knows for sure whether I can use the 92 intake harness with the white plugs (not the injector harness) on a 94 car, ECU, and engine please say so. I will post pics of everything tomorrow, and hopefully have it running so I can continue with the turbo side of the build.

[icingdeath88]

ok so for an update, I got my MAC charger in so I am good on that now.

I also managed to get the engine pulled out of the car and most of the parts swapped over to the original engine. I need to install the intake manifold, double check a few things, drop the engine into the car, button it all up and then install the throttle body after the torque converter bolts. I had an incident today working on the engine, apparently the pin wasn't in on the cherry picker and when lowering it down to get it out the way( the engine was already safely on the floor), it slid forward and hit the engine that was on the ground, and cut through BOTH crank sensor wires on the 92 engine, but those wires on the 94 intake harness I need that is original to the car. DOES ANYONE KNOW FOR CERTAIN IF THE INTAKE HARNESS WITH THE WHITE CLIPS, THE ONE FOR THE SENSORS AND ETC. NEEDS TO BE SWAPPED OVER????

From the pics I posted of the differences in the intake harnesses (one has the two white plugs and the other has the the two gray plugs)was that the INJECTOR harness (gray plugs) is what is different. I am not sure if the other one with the WHITE PLUGS is different between 92's and 94's.

I would assume that harness is the same, but my assumptions thus far have proven to be very costly in terms of time spent on this build so far. In theory this should have been completed weeks ago. So if anyone knows for sure whether I can use the 92 intake harness with the white plugs (not the injector harness) on a 94 car, ECU, and engine please say so. I will post pics of everything tomorrow, and hopefully have it running so I can continue with the turbo side of the build.

I already mentioned, I have a 92 engine in my 94, which did not require me to swap anything electrical over. Not the injector harness, or anything else. I don't know, I guess yours could be different for some reason (California spec car or something??), but try looking to see any differences. I bet you won't find any.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you're in a better position than anyone else to figure out if they're interchangeable or not, since the two engines are right in front of you.

[Subaru Alliance]

I already mentioned, I have a 92 engine in my 94, which did not require me to swap anything electrical over. Not the injector harness, or anything else. I don't know, I guess yours could be different for some reason (California spec car or something??), but try looking to see any differences.

I thought you had swapped your intake onto the 92 engine? From what I have seen is a difference in the injector harness between the 92 and 94, and also somebody stated on here that the 94 intake has a temp sensor for the EGR which the 92 does not, and it will throw a code if it's not plugged in. From what i can see it does appear to be the same. Normally I would not be afraid to cut the wire and splice it back together, but once it had gotten chopped it exposed the wire and it appears to be a shielded wire, and I am not a big fan of splicing shield wire if I don't have to. anyways, on with the build and pics to come throughout the day. I appreciate the suggestions and what not.

[icingdeath88]

I thought you had swapped your intake onto the 92 engine? From what I have seen is a difference in the injector harness between the 92 and 94, and also somebody stated on here that the 94 intake has a temp sensor for the EGR which the 92 does not, and it will throw a code if it's not plugged in. From what i can see it does appear to be the same. Normally I would not be afraid to cut the wire and splice it back together, but once it had gotten chopped it exposed the wire and it appears to be a shielded wire, and I am not a big fan of splicing shield wire if I don't have to. anyways, on with the build and pics to come throughout the day. I appreciate the suggestions and what not.

With the 92 ECU it doesn't throw a code. With the 94 ECU it does, but that's the only code it threw. I didn't swap anything.

[Subaru Alliance]

so the engine is swapped in, and running normally so that is nice. on the other hand the turbo most definitely has a blown oil seal, so tomorrow I will swap turbos, and get a rebuild kit on order. I will swap the compressor housing onto the spare turbo and start plumbing the water cooling. Here are a few pics of the cut through crank sensor wires, it's hard to see in the pic but the wire is cut most of the way through.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120407_113843.jpg
A picture of the original 94 engine before the install. It is waiting for the intake manifold, crank sprocket, timing belt, and all the accessories power steering, alternator, and A/C
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120407_113749.jpg

This is a picture of the 92 engine removed from the car, with the 94 intake setting on the hood, while swapping other parts over.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120407_113737.jpg

A close up of the 92 engine being parted out for the benefit of the 94 engine.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120407_113728.jpg

Any way as far as the intake sensor harness, I am using the 92 and there doesn't appear to be any difference between the two. I had to swap over one of the crank sensor plugins, I just de-pinned it and swapped it onto the 92 harness, and other than that it's good. So apparently the issue I ran into earlier on the build was just an issue with the injector harness. More updates, progress, and pics to come tomorrow.

[Subaru Alliance]

Ok I got the turbo's swapped out, and swapped over the compressor housing as well, I also managed to get the water system mocked up. I will post a few pics of that tomorrow. It is gonna get re-located as this build is still in the experiment stage anyway.

Remaining issues to fix, the exhaust had some bull crap rattling around in it, I took it apart at the center of the car, and then dropped the CAT and two chunks of melted cat stuffs fell out, however the cat in the middle is still in tact. Two if the bolts had broken when uninstalling the pipe, so I will replace tomorrow. The other issue is a coolant leak at the throttle body which can be fixed with a clamp that I will also pick up tomorrow.

Moving on to the pics, here are a couple pics of removing the anti surge compressor housing from the "original" turbo and swapping it over to the other turbo.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120408_134627.jpg
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120408_134645.jpg

[Subaru Alliance]

So for an update, I got the water cooling hooked up and running for the turbo, but noticed I had a small coolant leak, one on the turbo cooling system, and one under the hood. I got them both fixed for now, but of course still in the testing phase. Surprisingly enough the turbo cooling system actually pulls a lot of heat away from the turbo. I mean I assumed it would pull more heat that the oil system but I am surprised as to just how much heat it pulls, so for another estimate, I stated earlier that I suspected the oil and cooling system would barely get in the low one hundreds for temp readings, but now I suspect the cooling will be hanging out in the upper one hundreds, while the oil system I think will still be in the low one hundreds. I am mocking up a panel in place of the radio to mount all the gauges to, and then need to hook up the temp sending units. I have also barely started plumbing the intake tubing, but I am waiting now for a 5 foot long piece of 2.5 inch aluminum tubing to carry the boost most of the way under the car, without using 20 hoses and 40 clamps on individual 12-18 inch pieces all the way, and less chances for boost leak, or at least easier to find if I do suffer some sort of boost leak.

I am doing a little bit at a time, but this weekend I will try to post up a bunch of pictures. Once I get the gauge panel done I will post that up as well.

[Subaru Alliance]

I have been pre occupied lately, but managed to get a few more small things done on the build. I got the temp sending units wired up and both temp gauges working. I am in the process of wiring up the fans. I mounted the gauges on a plastic template which I have rough cut to fit into the radio area, and the cover closes concealing all the gauges when the car is parked. I have some diamond plate aluminum that will be the finished product to put the gauges in once I cut it down to size and drill the holes in it.

I haven't ordered an AFR gauge yet, but did order 3 inch exhaust pipe, and 2.5 aluminum tubing for the intake, both are 7 1/2 feet long each so once they come in I can mock those up and then cut the excess off. I still need to mount the waste gate before I plumb everything in, but that will be a trip to lowes to get a metal cutting hole saw. I am gonna work on it a bit more this evening and then I can post up some pics of what is done so far.

[Subaru Alliance]

Ok, sorry I been so busy lately, but none the less here is an update on the progress. I got the 3 inch exhaust pipe in that I will bend to be the tail pipe. I got my 2.5 inch pipe in but totally got BUFU'd because it is aluminized pipe, not ALUMINUM like I wanted. I did however order some intercooler piping, two pipes each 3 feet in length. I really wanted to run one pipe the length of the car to reduce hoses and clamps, but we will see how this goes.

I have yet to order my AFR gauge, but one thing at a time anyway. Here is a picture of the gauges I have installed and mounted. The plastic background the gauges are mounted to is join to be a template for me to cut out some diamond plate aluminum my neighbor gave me so I will look good and churched up when I get it done.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120418_090858.jpg
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120418_090908.jpg

[BackWoodsBob]

Are you using the stock MAF? If so how much air flow can the stock MAF correct for before it maxes out?

[Freeman]

Are you using the stock MAF? If so how much air flow can the stock MAF correct for before it maxes out?

Use a Z32 MAF.

[BackWoodsBob]

Thank you.
I've read through this thread before, but that was weeks ago.
Slated to do it again here shortly.

[Subaru Alliance]

ok so it's time for a much needed update with a new problem, hopefully an easy one to solve though. I got my aluminum pipe in and have been running around getting clamps and hoses and mocking stuff up, cutting, fitting, cutting fitting, etc. etc. On to the pics.

Okay here I used some high temp RTV to attach the MAF to an adapter so it would seal up.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120502_192735.jpg

Here it is going together with the adapter and some hoses in preparation for the aluminum piping.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120502_193454.jpg

My first attempt to get the MAF mounted and get the tubing mounted.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120503_100106.jpg

My second attempt to mount everything up. I scrapped the first attempt because the pipe was hitting the strut mount and the noise of it vibrating with the engine running would have made me want to drive off a cliff.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120503_134614.jpg

[Subaru Alliance]

As of right now with my current set up, the MAF is within an inch of the stock placement and the TB. I measured the stock intake duct and came up with about 20 inches distance between the MAF and the TB. My current setup is around 17 inches plus another 2.5-3 inches for the hose, so it's basically stock distance from the TB.

The problem is I cut the big elbow off the intake ductwork and when I fired it up for testing, it is acting like someone is unplugging the MAF, it starts and runs for a second then stalls. I had the big hose blocked off and then I decided to unplug it and let it be a HUGE vacuum leak, it ran better for about 2 seconds and then stalled out. I am already devising a plan to re use that part of the duct work and extending the hose, but I am looking for some sort of input on it, would this be cause of the stalling? Here are some pics.

Here is the hose in question
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120503_193215-1.jpg

Here is the ductwork piece I cut out and am most likely gonna re mount/ re duct it back in.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120503_195646.jpg

This is where the hose connects to on the underside of the Throttle Body
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120503_195732.jpg

More pics will come tomorrow as I continue to make progress on this. The way everything is oriented the MAF is located just above the CAT on the passenger side, I will wrap the CAT to keep the heat down and that will be the only spot where the intake piping will come so close to the exhaust.

[icingdeath88]

I don't know if I brought this up before or not, but I just realized something. If the compressed air from the turbo to the intake is too hot, the MAF won't work right. So some kind of intercooling is a must.

Yes, that big line is the feed for the idle air control valve. The car won't idle without the idle air control valve getting metered air...

Basically you need to put a nipple or something in the shiny pipe between the MAF and the black box that feeds the two throttle bodies, and connect that to the IACV feed.

[Subaru Alliance]

Yes, that big line is the feed for the idle air control valve. The car won't idle without the idle air control valve getting metered air...

Basically you need to put a nipple or something in the shiny pipe between the MAF and the black box that feeds the two throttle bodies, and connect that to the IACV feed.

I appreciate the fast response. I figured it had something to do with that, because so far that is the only thing that has changed. Aside from relocating the MAF that idle air control hose was the only physical change up to this point.


As far as the hot air throwing off the MAF I figured that as well, being as the hot air won't cool the wire down as well as cool air would, but to combat this I will wrap the exhaust where it comes closest to the intake pipe. I already have a plan to re duct in the piece for the idle air hose, I will lengthen the hose to accommodate the new location of the nipple. Here are a few more pics of the mock up. more to come tomorrow as the progress continues.

Here are some pics of the new MAF location mocked up
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120503_201841.jpg
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120503_201833.jpg
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120503_201823.jpg

Here are some pics of my gauges cluster getting prepped for the gauges.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120503_210007.jpg

Here is the front of it
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120503_205955.jpg

[Tapani]

Good work,

I'd be surprised if the air would be too hot for the MAF just after startup and on idle conditions. The compressor does no work at that point. I would start by plumbing metered air to the idle control and keep the MAF where you had it first. I would think the MAF signal is compensated for ambient temp - what the range is, that I do not know.

Tapani

[Subaru Alliance]

Good work,

I'd be surprised if the air would be too hot for the MAF just after startup and on idle conditions. The compressor does no work at that point. I would start by plumbing metered air to the idle control and keep the MAF where you had it first. I would think the MAF signal is compensated for ambient temp - what the range is, that I do not know.

Tapani

I thought about trying to keep the MAF where I first tried to put it which was right on the box feeding the TB, but I figured trying to keep it the stock distance would yield the best results. I am thinking maybe the time delay between the air going through the MAF, and the air actually reaching the intake manifold would be figured in, and I was afraid if I moved it to close to the throttle body maybe the ECU has a half second delay to compensate for the placement of the MAF in stock location, and I may throw that off by moving it to close. This theory is pure speculation of course.

[neverLift]

In regards to the MAF and heat, its not the heat from the exhaust you're worried about. It is a good idea to wrap it/heat shield the MAF/intake, but much of the heat in the intake charge comes from the compressor itself as compressing air always creates heat. Although the length of intake piping may conduct/radiate enough heat away since its exposed to airflow under the car. If so, then its a non-issue.

cheers
-Evan

[icingdeath88]

I thought about trying to keep the MAF where I first tried to put it which was right on the box feeding the TB, but I figured trying to keep it the stock distance would yield the best results. I am thinking maybe the time delay between the air going through the MAF, and the air actually reaching the intake manifold would be figured in, and I was afraid if I moved it to close to the throttle body maybe the ECU has a half second delay to compensate for the placement of the MAF in stock location, and I may throw that off by moving it to close. This theory is pure speculation of course.

Nah, it won't matter. You could concievably put the MAF before the turbo, and as long as you're using a BPV instead of a BOV, it ought to work. It doesn't matter where along the intake tract the MAF is, it's still reading the amount of air entering the engine. Because that's the only place it has to go, any flow = flow into the engine.



In regards to the MAF and heat, its not the heat from the exhaust you're worried about. It is a good idea to wrap it/heat shield the MAF/intake, but much of the heat in the intake charge comes from the compressor itself as compressing air always creates heat. Although the length of intake piping may conduct/radiate enough heat away since its exposed to airflow under the car. If so, then its a non-issue.

I dunno, it's possible, but I kind of doubt it. I'd definitely do some kind of intercooling.

Maybe one of the air-to-water ones from frozenboost.com can be put along the intake pipe under the car. Like this: http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=218&products_id=228&osCsid=9564b7c24eb25e083c5616c2d4781699

[92 SVX]

In regards to the MAF and heat, its not the heat from the exhaust you're worried about. It is a good idea to wrap it/heat shield the MAF/intake, but much of the heat in the intake charge comes from the compressor itself as compressing air always creates heat. Although the length of intake piping may conduct/radiate enough heat away since its exposed to airflow under the car. If so, then its a non-issue.

cheers
-Evan

Nah, it won't matter. You could concievably put the MAF before the turbo, and as long as you're using a BPV instead of a BOV, it ought to work. It doesn't matter where along the intake tract the MAF is, it's still reading the amount of air entering the engine. Because that's the only place it has to go, any flow = flow into the engine.





I dunno, it's possible, but I kind of doubt it. I'd definitely do some kind of intercooling.

Maybe one of the air-to-water ones from frozenboost.com can be put along the intake pipe under the car. Like this: http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=218&products_id=228&osCsid=9564b7c24eb25e083c5616c2d4781699

The fact is the air coming in will be colder air, remote turbo the intake air is coming from the back like that. And the distance traveled from the turbo should cool the air significantly a intercooler may help but I would doubt it would do very much.
I would wrap any exhaust piping that comes close to any intake piping to keep that heat in, helping the turbo and keeping heat soak from the intake. Use a turbo blanket and as icing said use a bypass instead of a BOV because if your ecu already thinks that air is on the way into the engine it will cause the mix to be incorrect until the O2 sensor can tell the ecu that its incorrect.

[icingdeath88]

The fact is the air coming in will be colder air, remote turbo the intake air is coming from the back like that. And the distance traveled from the turbo should cool the air significantly a intercooler may help but I would doubt it would do very much.
I would wrap any exhaust piping that comes close to any intake piping to keep that heat in, helping the turbo and keeping heat soak from the intake. Use a turbo blanket and as icing said use a bypass instead of a BOV because if your ecu already thinks that air is on the way into the engine it will cause the mix to be incorrect until the O2 sensor can tell the ecu that its incorrect.

NO. A BOV between the turbo and MAF will do better the way he's got it set up.

[92 SVX]

NO. A BOV between the turbo and MAF will do better the way he's got it set up.

Ah, yes reread what you wrote, and if the maf is before the turbo a bypass, as it is now it shouldnt make a difference as long as the valve is ahead of(in the flow) the MAF

[Subaru Alliance]

Ok so for some more updates. I have everything plumbed from the turbo to the intake manifold. Originally I wanted to keep the MAF about the stock distance away from the TB, but it was proving to be a bit of a headache so I have moved it closer to the TB. The car idles a bit rough now, kinda rhythmically bouncing from 750 -500 rpms. I am not sure if it is because of the new MAF location, or because the piping into the air box does get pretty warm, so I may end up wrapping that portion of it as well. here are a few pics.

This was the 3rd attempt at the air box.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120504_141911.jpg

This was the first attempt at plumbing from the "air box" to going under the car
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120504_184732.jpg

This was the final product, I removed the RUBBER 90* and replaced it with an aluminum 90*
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120504_203856.jpg

I have to get some plumbers tape to support the piping because it hangs a bit low right now, and run a vacuum line from the BOV to the intake. I will be knocking that out here in a few hours because it is too hot and I am to sun burnt to do it now. so a few more hours, let it cool down outside, and I will post up some pics of the rest of the piping and a functional BOV.

[Tapani]

The car idles a bit rough now, kinda rhythmically bouncing from 750 -500 rpms.

Mine does that too (stage 2) until the fuel trim parameters have been adapted enough. It's rather rich to start with. This happens only when the AC compressor is not on, i.e. on the "low" idle speed. When the compressor runs the idle is raised a little and it's fine from the very start.

Same thing everytime the battery has been disconnected. Takes about one days commuting to stop :eek:

Tapani

[Subaru Alliance]

Mine does that too (stage 2) until the fuel trim parameters have been adapted enough. It's rather rich to start with. This happens only when the AC compressor is not on, i.e. on the "low" idle speed. When the compressor runs the idle is raised a little and it's fine from the very start.

Same thing everytime the battery has been disconnected. Takes about one days commuting to stop :eek:

Tapani

Good info, I appreciate it, I was worried I jacked something up by moving the MAF, or some other unforeseen variable. When I turn my A/C it does stop doing it, but I am sorta an A/C nazi and try to leave it off as much as I can. I guess it's just my personal preference though. Onto the pics

I ran the vacuum line from the TB to the BOV and then I uninstalled the pipe because when I had it running there was enough vacuum to keep the BOV open at idle, so this pic was of me half installing it to make the adjustment necessary to keep the BOV closed at idle, actually it opens about a 16th-or 32nd of an inch at idle, closes once the throttle is opened slightly and it shouldn't take much pressure to open it.
http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120506_190007.jpg

at idle the car produces around 22 psi of vacuum pressure, so under max boost conditions there will be 8 psi of positive pressure moving across it, I can get the car to peak around 25psi of vacuum by leaving the shifter in 3 and letting off the throttle around 45mph, this would have caused the BOV to partially open. My goal is to set it just past that threshold. Under boosted driving conditions it should take about 0.5psi of positive pressure in the piping, combined with 20psi vacuum pressure to open the BOV.

So for instance I am driving to savannah, and the car is building say 5 psi of boost and I let off the throttle abruptly, at that moment the intake manifold will create 20 something psi of vacuum pressure in it, and the ductwork coming from the turbo would still have say 4psi of positive pressure in it between the turbo and the TB, the BOV should open almost effortlessly to bleed off that remaining 4 psi, while the ductwork should experience minimal pressure spike conditions. As I drive the car around a bit I may need to tighten the spring a tad, because I don't want it to open under normal driving vacuum conditions because it will let the engine take in UNFILTERED AIR and that is certainly a NO GO. Also the BOV came with a 10psi and a 5psi spring installed, and I removed the 5psi. But as seen in the photo my adjustment is nearly maxxed out. I will take it down again and reinstall the 5psi spring in conjunction with the 10pounder to give myself some more leeway on the adjustment.

[Subaru Alliance]

sorry its been a minute since i been online, but my in laws just left to go back home to indiana so i was dealing with that :). Anyways a quick update I have some pics of the waste gate installed. I will try to post up an update this weekend with some general driving experiences thus far.

A couple wastegate pics.

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120520_145932.jpg

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/subaru-alliance/IMG_20120520_145916.jpg

[icingdeath88]

Lookin good man. I'm really curious how it looks from the trunk side. Actually, to be honest, I really just want to see more pics of all of it. :)

[Subaru Alliance]

Lookin good man. I'm really curious how it looks from the trunk side. Actually, to be honest, I really just want to see more pics of all of it. :)

I will get some more pics of the whole thing done up. The waste gate pipe is mounted and runs along the tail pipe coming off the turbo so it's kinda stealthy in there. Standing in the center of the trunk looking in you can't even see it, but looking into the trunk from the passenger side you can see it clearly. Any ways onto some of my experiences thus far with this set up.

1. The car doesn't build any sorta positive pressure until around 35-3700 rpms, If I put the shifter into 2, then it seems to have boost more available around 33-3500 rpms. The auto certainly works against me in this, at least in daily driving type situations.

2. I am sure that other members with turbos will agree with this observation. even tho the car is "LAGGY" according to the boost gauge, it isn't really laggy from a driving standpoint. What I mean is with stock internals the car has the factory power available to it all the time, and the turbo simply supplements the engine power. Say something that is turbo charged from the factory, has lower compression and the engine relies HEAVILY on the turbo to produce your power, where as this set up, the high compression doesn't "need" the turbo's help to get the car moving and certainly doesn't need the turbo for daily town/city driving. So even tho it's a bit slow getting the boost, the car still performs well while your waiting.

3. I stated earlier that once the turbo was mounted, the car idling and warmed up the turbo didn't even spin at all. if you were to rev it up from idling to about 1000rpms it would start spinning. An update to that is now that the intake plumbing is completed, the turbo spins very well at idle, where as before exhaust pressure at idle wasn't enough to spin it, but now the combination of idling exhaust and the vacuum moving across the impeller helps to "vacuum spool" the turbo a little bit. so this vacuum spool effect and the exhaust pressure effect spins it nicely. Now at the end of my commute to or from work, I park the car, and let it idle for a few seconds, when I turn the key off you can hear the turbo spin down to a stop (takes about 1 second after turning off the key)

4. Also having the ginormous hole in my trunk and with all this rain we have been getting around here you would think that the turbo would be wet all the time, but in reality it stays dry even while driving through some fairly deep puddles. Also there was a big puddle I hit at about 30, water did splash up a bit, it hit the hot exhaust pipe and steamed off, but didn't get the turbo wet, or even splash into the trunk area of the car. The exhaust pipe itself acts as a shield for the turbo, and the turbo is high enough in the trunk well that it's pretty much protected from nearly everything that would be encountered in "normal driving" I am sure in some extreme driving like rally cross or whatever you may have to make a shield or something, but I am not gonna be needing anything like.

just an update, the temp sending unit for my water temp gauge took a dump, so now in the mornings when i start the car, the oil temps says 70-80 degrees, the water temp says 290 I will get another sending unit on order, and in the mean time I think I will swap them out and use the bad one for the oil since it has never gotten above 125 anyway, but water ranges from 70- 170.

[Subaru Alliance]

I haven't forgotten about you guys, but when it rains it pours. The SVX doesn't want to idle at all once it's warmed up, if you are driving it down the road it seems to run fine, but when you ride the brake to a stop it stalls out. I want to take out the IAC and try to clean it and see what that does.

To make matters worse my CV axle in the baja started clicking on the way to tennessee, and now its' bad enough that it clicks when your going strait, so I need to replace the axle in that.

My wife's dad is in the hospital but he is improving so that's good, but it's been quite stressful around here. I will try to take a look at the SVX this weekend, I haven't even started it up in a week and a half, and look forward to doing an axle swap as well, I will try to take some pics of the SVX and post them up.

I think I am heading in the right direction with the IAC, but if anyone knows anything else that will help, I am all ears.

[Chuckls]

sorry its been a minute since i been online, but my in laws just left to go back home to indiana so i was dealing with that :).


What part?

[icingdeath88]

Maybe you will just need to open the IACV up a bit to compensate for the long intake tract. Or something. I will think and see if I come up with any ideas for you. What RPMs does it idle at, cold and warm, and with the A/C on cold and warm?

[Subaru Alliance]

Most recently the car wasn't idling at all once warmed up, I started poking around and realized my intake piping was disconnected just behind the MAF. I reconnected the piping and it idles all day now. Someone had stated earlier about the air temp moving across the MAF, if it was too hot it wouldn't cool the wire inside down and give false readings. This is exactly what I think was happening, because once warmed up, it was pulling air through the MAF still, but it was hot, it was pulling air from between the body, passenger side of the trans, and on top of the exhaust. Now that the piping is fixed, there is a new issue.

Once upon a time when I was in germany, I had a yamaha 600 sport bike, and riding it around on post all the time really put a hurtin on it, I mean going 30mph, and giving it enough throttle to maintain that it would get into a jerky rhythm where it would "lunge" and then miss fire for a half second, then repeat. I took it on the autobahn and cruised about 10 miles goin about 90mph and when I returned to post that thing ran like a champ, and then about 2-3 weeks later it would act up again and I would repeat and it was good. I told you that story to tell you this one, I was thinking it may be something similar with the SVX, I drive it around all day at 30 mph and it gets all loaded up, I took it to the interstate today and drove about 13-14 miles at 75-80mph but it made now difference in how it acts.

The car is misfiring and the only variable seems to be throttle position, based on RPM's. it seems anything about 2300 rpms it want to run fine, no issues, but anything below that it misses real bad until you give it enough throttle to get the rpms above 2300 ish and of course by then your accelerating from a dead stop much faster than necessary.

I am thinking maybe throttle position? I say that because me and a friend just fixed a very similar issue on his 89 mustang 5.0 not real sure but if anyone has any ideas I am all ears.

I also took some photos but my phone is being gay and acting like there aren't there, but once it comes up I will post them to photobucket and add them here.


P.S. my wife and kids went back up to Lafayette Indiana because her dad's health is deteriorating fairly rapidly, so those of you that pray, we would appreciate any words/thoughts.

[Subaru Alliance]

Another update, I just went out and moved my car to let another car out, it idles all day with the A/C off. Once turned on it seems to make it much worse, and then it stalls out with the load of compressor. It also misses as though it is trying to rev up a bit to compensate for the extra load, but the fact that it's misses makes it stall out. I gave it a little gas, and held it, it missed for about a solid 5 seconds, then it revved up to about 1500 and and ran fine, once i let off the throttle it started missin again and then stalled.

[huck369]

Maybe a TPS issue?

[smc]

I had the same issue. It took quite a few bucks and replacement parts to find out it was something simple. In my case, a ignition coil was grounding out to the head at the lower rpms. It would miss and occasionally sputter unless I punched the throttle. More so under a light load. But it would happen at random times. Subaru dealership couldn't figure it out, nor could a subaru specialty shop who tore it apart and even tested the coils. I found out by pulling the coils, inserting a plug and checking for spark. One coil shocked the bejeezus out of me as it found that my hand made a better ground source than the plug and engine block. Once I replaced the coil that was grounding out, all was fixed.


you may want to give that a check.

[Subaru Alliance]

I appreciate all the responses, and I will start troubleshooting it this weekend. My wife and kids are back home now, but just long enough to get a bigger vehicle. they are going back up there early tomorrow morning, and once they leave I will be without a car until i get this thing figured out. I traded in the baja for an 05 F250 super duty quad cab. so now she has more room like she wanted, and I have a diesel like I wanted.


Anyone know right off hand how to test/adjust the TPS, I also wanna clean the IACV, and will definitely look into the coils as stated by SMC. I am home for lunch now but going back to work, thanks again for the help.

[Subaru Alliance]

Been off the net for quite some time. Anyways onto the most current plans. I was gonna end up selling the SVX to get rid of it as I am now about 2 months from heading out to Arizona.

The latest is that I now have a friend of mine coming here to Georgia and driving one of my two vehicles (U-haul with SVX on trailer, or F-250 hauling my boat) to Az. and my neighbor has given me a slew of RX-7 parts, he gave me a running 12a rotary engine, trans, alternator, water pump, and rear end.

A few weeks ago I took his rx-7 to miami Fl. to get it tuned and dyno'd, and he hit 446 HP, but his stage 4 clutch disk started slipping, so it is currently tuned down to 414 HP, (Amazing for a 1.3L engine)

I now plan on taking the SVX to Arizona, since it will NEVER rust out there, and start on my own turbo rotary engine build. Anyways I will be off the net again packing my house up, and clearing out of the army, but once I get to Arizona and get settled in, I will definitely start another thread in the turbo section, but it will be a rotary build.

THX for the help, support, and suggestions thus far.

[injuhneer]

...but once I get to Arizona and get settled in, I will definitely start another thread in the turbo section, but it will be a rotary build.

THX for the help, support, and suggestions thus far.


Where in AZ?

-Mike O

[Subaru Alliance]

a small town named Morenci, it's about an hour north east of Stafford.

[BackWoodsBob]

progress?

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