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Motorsport-SVX
04-28-2011, 07:44 PM
Finally got a reputable suspension shop to make us Rear
Sway bars for our cars, bolt on.

We would duplicate the bar in a larger diameter and supply the midsection bushings and brackets.

Factory link would be used.

Bars would be black powder coated.

Retail would be in the $160 range.
pls shipping

They suggested:
(22.22mm) would be a good, aggressive bar

I agree with their size suggestion
(other sizes would be considered)

Once we get enough on board, say at least 10
we can get them made. Turn around time wouldnt
be that bad, we may even drop ship, not sure yet.


Anyone interested can post here, but I also suggest emailing
me at (motorsport_svx@yahoo.com)

thanks
Dayle

icingdeath88
04-28-2011, 07:48 PM
I hope you mean front sway bars. We already have a good source for rears.

Motorsport-SVX
04-28-2011, 07:52 PM
didnt know there was a rear option out there..
who makes it ?
what size ?
bolt on with new mounts etc ?
or is it borrowed from another car ?


We can prob do fronts too if need be.

icingdeath88
04-28-2011, 07:56 PM
http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54454

An extremely good product, btw. Only problem is that it's not complimented by a front one. Fronts are trickier to put together since ours are two-piece with a weird bendy part that goes through the front crossmember. There have been several one-off front ones made, however.

I, for one, would be 100% down for a front sway bar, and I think you should focus on that first, especially since Nevin has already got a batch of 10 in the works.

icingdeath88
04-28-2011, 07:58 PM
Oh, and I wouldn't want a front or rear bar that doesn't destroy the stock endlinks...

Gamesy
04-28-2011, 08:40 PM
oooo looks like a turf war about to form
unfortunately my wallet would have to agree with motorsports pricing over nevins...

Coan
04-28-2011, 08:54 PM
http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54454

An extremely good product, btw. Only problem is that it's not complimented by a front one. Fronts are trickier to put together since ours are two-piece with a weird bendy part that goes through the front crossmember. There have been several one-off front ones made, however.

I, for one, would be 100% down for a front sway bar, and I think you should focus on that first, especially since Nevin has already got a batch of 10 in the works.

Agreed. I think it would benefit the SVX community more (and you'd probably get more sales) if you focused on the front first. It'd be a shame to have 2 good rear swaybar options with out any upgrades available at all for the front.

Also, this may be asking too much, but a set of adjustable bars would be nice. :)

SVXRide
04-28-2011, 08:59 PM
What's wrong with a front sway bar that destroys end links? :lol::lol:

-Bill

Motorsport-SVX
04-28-2011, 10:00 PM
Ours will be direct bolt on
no mods to the end links
quiet for daily driving use like what most of
these cars are used for..with
noticeable decrease in body roll.
Powdercoated prob black ....
and for less $ :p

Motorsport-SVX
04-28-2011, 10:01 PM
As much as I hate to say it, most people dont run good
enough tires period to justify a larger sway bar on the front :)

Freeman
04-28-2011, 10:32 PM
$160 is much better and the diameter is nearly the same. Since the price is cheaper, you can count me in. just as long as shipping isn't $100 lol.

I'm shocked you haven't heard of Nevin's bar..

svxAL
04-28-2011, 10:36 PM
im in too!!

peace-frog
04-28-2011, 10:39 PM
id take one count me in

icingdeath88
04-28-2011, 10:40 PM
As much as I hate to say it, most people dont run good
enough tires period to justify a larger sway bar on the front :)

:confused: Swaybars are not for "most people". They're for those who care about performance, ie, already have good enough tires. That's a crappy excuse dude.

I don't care if you do a rear bar or not, but for the love of all that is holy, please at least also do a front one.

Freeman
04-28-2011, 10:41 PM
:confused: Swaybars are not for "most people". They're for those who care about performance, ie, already have good enough tires. That's a crappy excuse dude.

I don't care if you do a rear bar or not, but for the love of all that is holy, please at least also do a front one.

Yeah I'll back this argument.. Got my vote.

Obewon
04-29-2011, 06:24 AM
I'd be pretty interested in a front sway-bar (especially if I can connect it to my less-than-$1,000 tires). Just kidding .. yes, interested.

Gloomy
04-29-2011, 07:26 AM
Nevermind...

Geoff
04-29-2011, 09:28 AM
A larger front sway bar would only serve to counteract some of the good effects of the larger rear sway bar. I'm happy with my Bontrager and stock fronts with new bushings. :)

But if Dayle wants to go ahead and make RSBs, I say go for it - There's nothing wrong with choice in the SVX community. :D

Motorsport-SVX
04-29-2011, 01:20 PM
for the ones who really are interested in the rears, email me...
and once we get 10 commiments, we can do the project.

We can do fronts too, but will cost more ...
not sure what size yet.

Freeman
04-29-2011, 04:07 PM
Your email is broken

Motorsport-SVX
04-29-2011, 04:29 PM
Your email is broken

are you using

motorsport_svx@yahoo.com ?

Freeman
04-29-2011, 06:05 PM
are you using

motorsport_svx@yahoo.com ?

I am now. The email on your website isn't right.

Motorsport-SVX
04-29-2011, 06:49 PM
we have 2 websites
if you find an email address or contact email
on this site

www.planetsvx.com all those are good...

I also try to put it in the beginning post so you dont have
to go look for it...

if you go to our sister site
www.motorsportwarehouse.com

some of those links , yes dont work anymore for email

glad you got the one that works :)

Motorsport-SVX
04-29-2011, 08:06 PM
just a heads up folks, $160 was the est range if you
call recall, the MOST I see it going up would be to $185
plus shipping (after packaging etc..) but S&H would be
maybe $25 a bar depending on your location too and if
I can do a drop ship or not.
Ill still be much less then the alternative..
we can go with a Bigger diameter, but not sure if its needed.

LetItSnow
04-30-2011, 06:29 PM
Not for nothin', but after <this thread (http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=44713)>, I'm wondering what brought the change of heart?

Bob Bondurant must have called and said he was mistaken? :rolleyes:

Motorsport-SVX
05-02-2011, 05:51 PM
Not for nothin', but after <this thread (http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=44713)>, I'm wondering what brought the change of heart?

Bob Bondurant must have called and said he was mistaken? :rolleyes:

Nope, me and Bob actually go way back
but Ive decided if people still want to buy it, who
am I to try to talk them out of it.
Sometimes I forget Im in business also to make money and
not just to educate from experience :)

LetItSnow
05-02-2011, 08:28 PM
I'm not taking the bait, Dayle. Thanks for trying, though.

Freeman
05-02-2011, 08:35 PM
http://forum.i3d.net/attachments/ban-requests-ban-protests/943193570d1259417347-unban-request-firemail-this_thread_again.jpg

We're not doing this again..

Motorsport-SVX
05-03-2011, 12:53 PM
I'm not taking the bait, Dayle. Thanks for trying, though.

good, then dont try to start anything...
last time I checked, this thread was about us supplying
a New larger rear sway bar for interested Svx owners out
there, not your opinion about them or me :D

LetItSnow
05-03-2011, 01:14 PM
this thread [is] about us supplying
a New larger rear sway bar for interested Svx owners out
there, not [other stuff]
Agreed. GLWS.

shotgunslade
05-07-2011, 03:09 PM
I would commit to a larger front sway bar. Even up to $300.

icingdeath88
05-07-2011, 05:47 PM
I would commit to a larger front sway bar. Even up to $300.

Ditto. $300 doesn't seem terribly unreasonable.

Freeman
07-04-2011, 08:22 AM
Sooooo... What's the deal with this?

Motorsport-SVX
04-17-2012, 12:13 PM
just got an update, sorry for the delay.
We can do any size rear bar we want, the manufacturer suggested
.75 or .875 (22mm) if we wanted.
It would be a solid bar of course. The 22 may cause the car to
oversteer more and would work with stock springs or even with
our slightly heavier drop springs.
Price as it stands is going to be about $190 plus shipping.
materials cost are on the rise again.
If we could get it made in china the price would be half, but Im not
willing to go that far (haha) Ill keep it US made.

Front bar ? Im checking on that now.

sicksubie
04-17-2012, 12:17 PM
Are you offering upgraded rear endlinks like what comes with Nevin's rear sway bar? Do the bars come powdercoated? Adjustable?

Jay Wrix
04-17-2012, 09:53 PM
I am definitly in for the rear bar, and possibly the front if ever available....


I cant get on my email tonight, ill email you asap!

Freeman
04-18-2012, 06:34 AM
I was in for one but it took to long. Got one of Nevin's and its very awesome. I'd be in for a front one though.

Motorsport-SVX
06-26-2012, 12:51 AM
got the prototype bar in today...
going to test fit it on my car this week..

Obewon
07-08-2012, 11:02 AM
going to test fit it on my car this week..


And the verdict is .. ?

NikFu S.
07-08-2012, 03:10 PM
At least 10 of us already have rear bars. Fronts are a bit more rare.

Motorsport-SVX
07-17-2012, 02:50 AM
going to test fit it on my car this week..


And the verdict is .. ?

havent felt like getting under my car in the middle of
the day the last week or so, temps around 110 all day
takes the fun out of working on my car haha.

shotgunslade
07-17-2012, 06:02 AM
Would really be interested in the front bar. Many have tried and all have failed except SVXride who never commercialized his product.

Motorsport-SVX
01-30-2013, 05:37 PM
UPDATE:
new demo bar is on the way
and I have 10 bars tenatively on order depending what
the response here is , not sure how many ill order up
front.
Price is going to be $190 plus shipping per bar at the
moment. These are solid bars and come with the correct
urethane bushings and brackets.

svxcess
01-30-2013, 07:08 PM
Dayle, What are you using for endlinks?

.

theflystyle
01-31-2013, 04:46 AM
^ Ditto... Would they be usable with the Nevin bar?

bishop
01-31-2013, 03:16 PM
I can understand that we want to improve handling but wouldnt a larger front bar cause more understeer?

Motorsport-SVX
02-17-2013, 07:51 PM
done and ready to ship !!
We are building Qtys of 10 at a time
$185 each plus shippping.
Solid bars, come with urethane bushings and new brackets.
Ours are made by a major sway bar manufacturer done
to our specs and with their input too.

www.planetsvx.com

jman050
02-17-2013, 10:51 PM
Is this the rear bar or front...either way I'll take one but don't see it on your site

Motorsport-SVX
02-18-2013, 01:43 AM
Rear...
the fronts feasible, but the cost willl be much more
if we decide to do it.

It will be up on the site by tomorrow (the new rear)
or you can call me with your order or I can send you a payapl inv.
email me directly
motorsport_svx@yahoo.com

thanks
Dayle

kjoyes
02-19-2013, 03:17 PM
.75 or .875 (22mm) if we wanted
what size bar are you selling now?

shotgunslade
02-20-2013, 04:50 PM
Stiffer front swaybar will decrease understeer. We really need a stiffer front swaybar solution that will also address the issue of the connection to the front control arm. I believe SVXRide had a problem with his control arms due to larger bar.

Would be willing to pay reasonably big bucks for a good front sway bar upgrade.

theflystyle
02-20-2013, 05:02 PM
so whats being used for the endlinks?

svxcess
02-20-2013, 06:20 PM
so what's being used for the endlinks?

In the very first post of this thread Dayle says the factory links would be used. Seems like they need to be beefier. That's why OT came up with the "$20/ 20 minute mod".

.

Motorsport-SVX
03-06-2013, 01:17 AM
Got a few bugs to work out with the hardware on the rear bar
Installed mine today. Figured out what hardware will be needed
at any hardware store too.
Got the bar mounted to the endlinks I used some nylon washers
but think the manufacturer is going to make me something and include
it in the bar. Its an easy fix, and some people may want to use
different methods for this depending on how solid they want it to be.
I noticed it immediately the first time I made a hard turn on the way
home. Felt good, just takes some getting use to.
As long as rest of your suspension is in good shape and you are running
better then avg softer tires, youll get the most out of the new bar.

My car has our drop springs in it, stock struts, and 225-40-18 Continental tires on it for comparison.
Ill post more pics tomorrow nite.

Nevin
03-23-2013, 03:54 PM
Best of luck, Dayle!

I got some HID's from you a few years back and they still work amazingly.

Frankly, it doesn't bother me at all if someone else makes a rear bar. I've sold about 35 now, and like I've said many times, the only reason I got into it was because I wanted a larger one for myself and nothing existed. I am not trying to hijack dayle's thread by any means, but I've got 5 bars left in my posession, and when they're gone I really doubt I'll make any more. Making the rear bar was actually a piece of cake, honestly. I'm surprised someone else hasn't made their own by now. The only thing that's custom is the bar itself, and any competent machine shop can bend you a bar of steel of any length and hardness to whatever shape you desire, (including patterning it it after the stocker) which is why I'm surprised more hadn't done this before.

A front bar is going to be MUCH harder, because like Bill eluded to, the problem is two-fold. First, it has to be a two piece bar (splined at one end like the stocker) which would drive up costs, and two, you'd have to have a good place to connect the thing to the struts. Custom work would have to be done on each, and for the amount of work and cost it would take, it's not worth the investment for anyone to take on a project where they will sell MAYBE 10 of something.

Mine have always sold for $260 shipped anywhere in the lower 48 (except for special colors,) so if you can do it for any less, by all means be my guest.

Dayle has been serving the svx community for longer than I even knew it existed, so if he has something to offer for a better price than even I can do, I'm all for it.

This is a great group of people I have met here, and I'm proud to own one of the weirdest cars on the road like the rest of you here!

jman050
04-22-2013, 09:38 PM
any updates on when the rear bars will be shipping?

jman050
05-01-2013, 08:38 PM
Did anyone else order one of these?

huck369
05-02-2013, 04:59 AM
Did anyone else order one of these?
I have one on order....

kjoyes
05-02-2013, 11:56 PM
let us know when you get it and how you like it.

huck369
05-03-2013, 05:06 AM
let us know when you get it and how you like it.

Will do....

svxfiles
05-03-2013, 10:17 PM
Best of luck, Dayle!

I got some HID's from you a few years back and they still work amazingly.

Frankly, it doesn't bother me at all if someone else makes a rear bar. I've sold about 35 now, and like I've said many times, the only reason I got into it was because I wanted a larger one for myself and nothing existed. I am not trying to hijack dayle's thread by any means, but I've got 5 bars left in my posession, and when they're gone I really doubt I'll make any more. Making the rear bar was actually a piece of cake, honestly. I'm surprised someone else hasn't made their own by now. The only thing that's custom is the bar itself, and any competent machine shop can bend you a bar of steel of any length and hardness to whatever shape you desire, (including patterning it it after the stocker) which is why I'm surprised more hadn't done this before.

A front bar is going to be MUCH harder, because like Bill eluded to, the problem is two-fold. First, it has to be a two piece bar (splined at one end like the stocker) which would drive up costs, and two, you'd have to have a good place to connect the thing to the struts. Custom work would have to be done on each, and for the amount of work and cost it would take, it's not worth the investment for anyone to take on a project where they will sell MAYBE 10 of something.

Mine have always sold for $260 shipped anywhere in the lower 48 (except for special colors,) so if you can do it for any less, by all means be my guest.

Dayle has been serving the svx community for longer than I even knew it existed, so if he has something to offer for a better price than even I can do, I'm all for it.

This is a great group of people I have met here, and I'm proud to own one of the weirdest cars on the road like the rest of you here!

NEVIN,
Yours has to be the classiest answer/responce to another Modification Provider in the history of SVX upgrading products, EVER!
good Show, Young Man!:)

kjoyes
06-08-2013, 10:23 PM
Hi, Just Checking if anyone has got there rear sway bar yet he told me the would be shipping out in a week about 3 months ago.
if you did get it would you write a review of it?

jman050
06-09-2013, 08:37 PM
He updated me on may 10th and told me he was going to call the shop making them. And no further communication yet.

huck369
06-26-2013, 12:55 PM
My Sway bar arrived today...
Will post thoughts when I get around to installing it....

Motorsport-SVX
06-27-2013, 01:48 PM
Jman050 you should have yours too by now too, Huck got his

we have some on the shelf ready to ship now and more are being
made as we need them, seems like the long wait for material is behind
us now.
thanks for everyones patients !! :)

jman050
06-28-2013, 06:08 AM
I received mine as well. I will be installing tomorrow morning!

kjoyes
06-30-2013, 01:30 PM
Could someone post pictures of the hardware, and the rear sway bar that they received.

huck369
07-01-2013, 08:09 AM
I got it installed Friday night, Was an easy straight forward install, everything fit up fine, took about half an hour, but I wasn't rushing.
I didn't Really get to test it out, as I have a brake issue to deal with, but no noises, and definitely less body roll, hopefully I'll get to really test it out soon (REALLY wishing I had had it a couple weeks ago so I could have tested it at the Dragon)
It is manufactured by ADDCO, and It Came with new mounting brackets and bushings, and Poly bushings for the endlinks (uses the stock endlinks)

I'll try to get my brake issue resolved and really test it out soon....

Motorsport-SVX
08-13-2013, 06:54 PM
thanks for the picks Huck
I need to get some of my installation soon too.

huck369
08-14-2013, 05:10 AM
You're Welcome Dayle,

Got my brake issue fixed (was the rubber line going to the Left Ft caliper) and have driven it more now, definitely keeps the rear end flatter!, MUCH better than the stock one did, the Poly End Link Bushings squeak a bit, but I didn't lube them, so that is to be expected with Poly bushings, over all, I like it, and don't really have any complaints :)....Drifts better now :D

Motorsport-SVX
08-27-2013, 04:31 AM
cool
I pretty much noticed about the same results with mine
one thing that helped too was I made sure my tires where pumped
up to about 40-42 psi max options
glad you got your car back on track

Motorsport-SVX
01-22-2014, 02:53 AM
we have about 10 of these now on hand ready to ship
for anyone thinking about getting one, all of our
manufacturer issues are behind us .
for those of you who bought are rear bar, we really hope you
are enjoying it.
thx, and hope we can add more stuff we are looking at doing
for 2014..

Front sway bar ? ... prob not...
but are are looking at possibly making an interior X BRACE similar
to the one being made for the STi s on the market.

Subachouli
01-22-2014, 06:39 AM
I want one.

Sent you an email Dayle.

Also very much looking forward to information on the X brace. =)

Motorsport-SVX
02-06-2014, 12:49 PM
just a heads up, no wait time anymore
we have 7 Rear Bars on the shelf, so shipping is
immediate :)

Tapani
12-31-2014, 12:25 AM
Has anyone tried the thicker bar in snow?

With paint off my stock bar is 17,0-17,3mm in diameter.... the 22mm bar is quite a bit stiffer... see metric table for polar moment of inertia below.....

17 8198
18 10304
19 12792
20 15705
21 19090
22 22994
23 27468
24 32566

With the VTD tranny and the Torsen diffs it's rather easy to induce winter over streer as it is.... a 20mm bar is almost twice the stiffness of the original bar and the 22mm bar is almost three times as stiff.

I may try having a 20mm bar made here locally (shipping from the US is almost as expensive as the bar itself). My thoughts are to make it just enough shorter so I can use regular dog bones - the mountings turned 180 degrees. This will also eliminate the flex in the OEM rubber end bushes.

Any comments?

/T

Motorsport-SVX
12-31-2014, 03:09 AM
if it helps in dry weather, it can only help in snow too..
but not sure how fast youll be driving in the snow.... I can
assure you it cant hurt :)
I have a few on the shelf, lmk and we can ship one out right away :)
Happy New Yrs

SoobCrazy
01-01-2015, 11:37 AM
if it helps in dry weather, it can only help in snow too..

That is just misinformation. :lol: Higher effective spring rates are not necessarily better in the snow.

Tapani, you will have to experiment to see if the additional rear roll stiffness is actually a benefit in your situation and driving style. In my opinion, it will probably help to add some rear roll stiffness to the rear end of the SVX, which will make it more fun to drive in the snow (because the car will rotate more readily and can then be steered with the throttle, which is fun). Adding front roll stiffness alone would most likely be a detriment, but the SVX is short on roll stiffness as it is.

However, just saying that what works in the dry will be just as effective in wet conditions is misleadingly over-simplified.

Tapani
01-02-2015, 12:08 AM
Yeah,

I will have the bar made on Monday. The weather sucks at the moment.... +#C and rain - no ice tracks open :mad: and the SVX is off the road.... they use a ton of salt here.

Rear roll bar is something to be approached cautiously :).

I am not looking for flat feeling cornering at road legal speeds, but a bit more balance driving at the limit to cancel the initial under steer. Both on ice and also at race circuits. It's so easy to go over board....

I have the moderate springs from Dayle and Koni inserts. This is my summer time daily driver....

By far the biggest effect so far has been the VTD conversion combined with torsen diffs at both ends. I may opt for a plate type diff for the rear, though - especially if the stiffer rear bar will induce inner rear wheel spin on dry.

I'll let you know how it goes.

/T

Tapani
01-04-2015, 10:33 AM
Browsing the net for the drop links.... the SVX ones are 145mm long and I need ones with the mounting studs 180 degrees from one another.

I found this link http://www.e46zone.com/forum/topic/47065-shorter-links-for-coilovers/

The shortest ones are 160mm.....

Then here's a 130mm long one for a Kia: https://www.rexbo.eu/jakoparts/rod-strut-stabiliser-j4890312?c=100577&at=19213

A Hyundai Cerato from 1996 also has 130mm long ones.

Since I have the moderate drop springs from Dayle I think the 130mm are quite alright?

Any comments?

/T

svxfiles
01-04-2015, 12:47 PM
Browsing the net for the drop links.... the SVX ones are 145mm long and I need ones with the mounting studs 180 degrees from one another.

I found this link http://www.e46zone.com/forum/topic/47065-shorter-links-for-coilovers/

The shortest ones are 160mm.....

Then here's a 130mm long one for a Kia: https://www.rexbo.eu/jakoparts/rod-strut-stabiliser-j4890312?c=100577&at=19213

A Hyundai Cerato from 1996 also has 130mm long ones.

Since I have the moderate drop springs from Dayle I think the 130mm are quite alright?

Any comments?

/T

Just make sure that the end links don't hit the banjo fittings on the calipers.

Tapani
01-04-2015, 09:07 PM
Just make sure that the end links don't hit the banjo fittings on the calipers.

Thanks,

Yes - I will have the bar made an inch shorter at each end to have the drop links vertical.

/T

svxfiles
01-04-2015, 09:15 PM
Thanks,

Yes - I will have the bar made an inch shorter at each end to have the drop links vertical.

/T

Cool!:cool:

Tapani
01-05-2015, 05:15 AM
I left the bar at the shop.... App 200€ for a one off �� .

Should be ready next week.

/T

Tapani
01-15-2015, 11:04 AM
Here it is.

Need to get the drop links and 20mm bushes.

It is app 2" shorter than the original one to get the drop links fully vertical.

/T

svxfiles
01-15-2015, 01:45 PM
Here it is.

Need to get the drop links and 20mm bushes.

It is app 2" shorter than the original one to get the drop links fully vertical.

/T

I am assuming that you know that if you make the arms shorter, it effectively makes the bar stiffer.
Tom

svxfiles
01-15-2015, 01:47 PM
Thanks,

Yes - I will have the bar made an inch shorter at each end to have the drop links vertical.

/T

When I read this I assumed that you meant less wide.:o
Tom

Tapani
01-15-2015, 08:58 PM
I am assuming that you know that if you make the arms shorter, it effectively makes the bar stiffer.
Tom

Yes Sir,

I am not shortening the arms, just increasing the angles how the whole bar is bent so that the ends are app 2" closer to each other. Make to whole part narrower. This will allow me to use "normal" end links with the studs 180 degrees from each other and keep the links vertical and not to foul against the brake calipers.

/T

svxfiles
01-15-2015, 10:23 PM
OK. just checking.;)

Tapani
01-16-2015, 01:26 AM
I "power filed" the original rubber bushes to 19mm.

Fits perfect.

I got the end links - will do a trial fit later.

/T

Tapani
01-16-2015, 10:09 AM
Progress.... the bar fits perfectly.

20mm diam, material is 25CrMo4 - equivalent to AISI 4130. Hot formed, quenched and tempered.

Final installation tomorrow.

Can't wait for better weather to try it out.

/T

gearheadE30
01-22-2015, 08:22 AM
Definitely interested in seeing the results. After autocrossing mine for the first time, it really drives like a FWD car and will rotate with trail braking, but otherwise it understeers rather badly. That bar should hopefully help out a lot.

Tapani
02-01-2015, 12:16 AM
It's snowing !!

So far app 5".... It's 0 degrees C, so it's good for making a snowman. I had to go for a drive.

The car drives flat and the new sway bar complements the rear bias of the VTD really nicely. Just more throttle and the rear swings around real easy. Long sweeping four wheel slides can be induced with gas only.

From a stand still too, first turn the wheel half a turn and then hit the throttle - you're immediately doing full circles - not a hint of under steer.

Lift off in manual second does not increase the slide - just straightens the car.

First impressions are very nice - should go on an ice track for more. All this depends on many things - the traction conditions are rather easy today.

So far I am really pleased.

/T