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Coan
10-31-2010, 02:07 AM
I wanted to start a thread that can easily be referred to for any info related to SVX transmission swaps. I’d like to gather as much info as possible about all of the popular options all into one easy to find thread. I think this would be very convenient, especially since the search function won’t allow you to use things like 4.44 or 4.11 as search terms. :rolleyes:

If anyone finds anything that is incorrect, or has any info to add to this, please post here and I will try to keep on top of updating the first post of this thread. I want this to be as accurate as possible.

If this turns out well, perhaps a mod could make it a sticky? ;)

Automatics:

4.44 trans swap

Pros: Geared more for acceleration than the SVX 3.54 trans. Stronger gears, doesn’t have the typical failures that the stock transmission has. Better availability than the stock SVX trans and a relatively inexpensive upgrade.

Cons: Freeway cruising will be at a slightly higher RPM due to the steeper gear ratios.

Where to find it: These came in 2.5L legacy outbacks from 96-98. The part number needs to start with TZ102Z2... the last 3 letters only refer to the year and model of car, outback, LSi, or GT. all 3 will work, as long as the part number is as stated above.
If the trans number ends with:
....BA it comes from an outback.
....CA is a GT, and
....AA is a LSi.
All 3 will work.

Taken from: http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=49026

4.44, 4EAT Transmission Numbers (http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=44184)

How to info: How to instructions by svxfiles (http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showpost.php?p=303945&postcount=6)

Additional Info (http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=46226)


4.11 trans swap

Pros: Geared more for acceleration than the stock 3.54 trans, but less than the 4.44. Kind of the middle road for auto trans gear ratios.

Cons: A number of these swaps are failing just like the factory trans, so it may not be much of an improvement over stock in regards to reliability. Freeway cruising will be at a slightly higher RPM than stock due to the steeper gear ratios.

Where to find it: These can be found in 1990-1994 Legacy's, although, some 1992-1994 have 3.90.

How to info: How to instructions by svxfiles (http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showpost.php?p=303945&postcount=6)


3.90 trans swap

Pros: Geared more for acceleration than the stock 3.54 trans, but less than both the 4.11 and 4.44.

Cons: Freeway cruising will be at a slightly higher RPM than stock due to the steeper gear ratios.

Where to find it: These can be found in some 1992-1994 Legacy's.

How to info: How to instructions by svxfiles (http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showpost.php?p=303945&postcount=6)


Overview of automatic transmissions:

The below was taken from: http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showpost.php?p=567088&postcount=22

Stock: Builds up too much heat which leads to failure of the high clutch packs. A properly rebuilt stock trans with external filter and cooler should last as long as any 4.44 (or longer). 1995+ SVX transmissions are less prone to failure as long as they have the cooler and external filter. They don't have the internal screen that the 1992-1994ish have.

4.11: Were not built to handle the heavy SVX. They have less clutch packs, so they fail prematurely. The difference in final gearing does not make up for their lack of clutch packs.

4.44: Were built for towing, they have less clutch packs than a stock tranny but the final gearing gives them more leverage and so they generate far less heat.


Manuals:

5MT swap

Pros: Manual transmission. :) Lower maintenance/more reliable than the autos once installed. Better acceleration than factory SVX auto trans. Cheaper than the STI 6MT. Aftermarket (stronger) gearsets available for the WRX versions.

Cons: Not a direct bolt-in, requires custom parts (crossmember etc.), is more difficult to install, and is more expensive than the autos. Cannot handle high power levels as well as the STI 6MT, but is sufficient enough for most SVXs.

Where to find it: Most Impreza and Legacy transmissions will work and also Impreza WRX transmissions will work. Part way through the 2003 model year the WRX 5MT was revised with a few changes, which supposedly makes them stronger than the earlier version (MY02 through the first half of MY03). There were also a few more changes in later model years that I do not know the details of.

How to info:
http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54258



STI 6MT swap

Pros: Manual transmission. :) Lower maintenance/more reliable than the autos once installed. Better acceleration than factory SVX auto trans. Been proven to handle very high levels of power in stock form. Aftermarket (stronger) gearsets available. Also has the ability to use the Driver Controlled Center Differential if desired.

Cons: Not a direct bolt-in, requires custom parts (crossmember etc.), and is more difficult to install. Very expensive in comparison to the other swaps. Average prices are around $4500 for the drivetrain alone, not to mention the additional parts needed to make it work in an SVX.

Where to find it: MY04+ Impreza WRX STIs.

How to info:
http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54258 (This is for an older Impreza 5MT but is related to the 6MT)


Driveshaft information:

96-99 legacy outback 5 speed driveshafts are the correct length for 5MT swaps. Stock SVX driveshafts work for 6MT swaps.


And lastly, don't forget the additional things to do while the trans is out!
http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38224


-Jon

Manarius
10-31-2010, 06:53 AM
Legacy Outbacks existed only from 95-98 (I guess we're talking pre-8 bolt pattern here?) and all 95 Outbacks had the 2.2 some manual equipped Outbacks had the 2.2 (1996 only). I also don't know if the 1995 or 1996 Outback had the 4.44 (my guess, seeing as the 1995 was a rare trim level, that it would not). You would want to check the rear diff or check the transmission number to see if it matched.

4.11 auto transmissions can be found in 1990-1994 Legacy's (although, some 1992-1994 have 3.9, which is mysteriously missing from this list).

Stock SVX transmissions 1995+ need not be rebuilt as long as they have the cooler and external filter. They don't have the internal screen that the 1992-1994ish have. As long as you don't drive like a race car driver, it's fine.

NikFu S.
10-31-2010, 02:07 PM
A compilation of driveshaft lengths would be helpful to some (me).

subeman90
10-31-2010, 03:08 PM
96-99 legacy outback 5 speed driveshaft = correct length for SVX with 5 speed conversion. I'm told it will not work with 6 speed conversion.

Gamesy
10-31-2010, 03:48 PM
96-99 legacy outback 5 speed driveshaft = correct length for SVX with 5 speed conversion. I'm told it will not work with 6 speed conversion.

there's a 2" difference
stock SVX driveshaft will work for 6spd

NikFu S.
10-31-2010, 04:14 PM
96-99 Legacy Outback 5 speed driveshafts are not always available. :)

I thought this was what I have on my car (97), but it had to be shortened 2 inches and still was a tight fit (bad, I know). Should have went 2.25''.

Coan
10-31-2010, 11:39 PM
Legacy Outbacks existed only from 95-98 (I guess we're talking pre-8 bolt pattern here?) and all 95 Outbacks had the 2.2 some manual equipped Outbacks had the 2.2 (1996 only). I also don't know if the 1995 or 1996 Outback had the 4.44 (my guess, seeing as the 1995 was a rare trim level, that it would not). You would want to check the rear diff or check the transmission number to see if it matched.

Ok I've updated the 4.44 section to just say 96-98 as that seems to be the most likely years to find them.

4.11 auto transmissions can be found in 1990-1994 Legacy's (although, some 1992-1994 have 3.9, which is mysteriously missing from this list).

I also updated where to find the 4.11, and added a section for the 3.90. I have not seen very much info at all for the 3.90. Is the same true for the 3.90 about the failures that the 4.11's have had?

I've also added a small driveshaft section. For all of the auto swaps, the stock SVX driveshaft is used, is this correct?

Thanks for the input guys! :) If anyone else sees anything incorrect or any other common swaps that should be added, let me know.

NikFu S.
12-17-2010, 09:49 PM
A compilation of driveshaft lengths would be helpful to some (me).

Guess I'll start. :rolleyes:

2002 WRX, auto, non-component
57.5'' total length
24.25'' from cup to center of bearing
33.25'' from flange to center of bearing

I only took rough measurements of the stock SVX shaft since it was cold and I was straddling a lawnmower.
61''
25.5''
35.5''
---
http://www.ncdls.net/ :rolleyes:
---
85 Brat, 4wd, AT
51.75''

1986nate
12-17-2010, 10:27 PM
Guess I'll start. :rolleyes:

2002 WRX, auto, non-component
57.5'' total length
24.25'' from cup to center of bearing
33.25'' from flange to center of bearing

I only took rough measurements of the stock SVX shaft since it was cold and I was straddling a lawnmower.
61''
25.5''
35.5''

If I remember, and can get the snow/ice off the trunk to get into my silver, I can measure the 5mt driveshaft from a 95-99 legacy/outback etc.:)

NikFu S.
12-17-2010, 11:07 PM
I'm asking some Ebay parts sellers to measure their 05-09 Legacy AT shafts to hopefully get an answer for this thread (http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20378).

1986nate
12-18-2010, 12:13 AM
I'm asking some Ebay parts sellers to measure their 05-09 Legacy AT shafts to hopefully get an answer for this thread (http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20378).

ahh, gotcha... nvm on the legacy as it has been done... I had figured it had been but just thought I'd offer anyway... oh well.:o

Edit:nvm, I'll still get it although the difference to the SVX is pretty much what it says for the difference in wheel base I believe...

NikFu S.
12-18-2010, 01:12 AM
I dunno about that. When I had them side-by-side the difference in length was closer to 2 inches.
--
edit: Looked through my 5mt swap thread, seems I only took off one inch, but it was still too long by 1/4 to 1/2 an inch.
--
Emailed a local parts yard asking them to measure a 2009 "(assm), 2.5L (4 Cyl), exc Outback; AT, 4 Spd,AUTO"

NikFu S.
12-21-2010, 09:49 PM
One response back with measurements for an 05 Legacy AT shaft.

61'' (-1 OR -2)
31'' front (+3.5 or +4.5)
31.5" rear (-4)

Not sure where the other 1.5'' went in the total length but the center bearing is off 3 or 4 inches.

If I were to pop off the rear from my OB shaft...

66.5'' (+3.5)
31'' (+3.5)
35.5'' (0)

..or thereabouts.

NikFu S.
12-27-2010, 09:09 PM
Ok I just got back from the scrap yard and measured an 05 Legacy AT shaft myself (sort of), and here's what I got (rounded to 1/4).

SVX ---- Leg
61.25'' -- 63'' (end to end)
26'' ----- 27'' (center of bearing to yoke tip)
35.5'' --- 36'' (flange to center of bearing)

That's pretty damn close to being exactly what we need. Rear flange, center bearing, front yoke, all look very Subaru-typical. It is however not a two-piece shaft.

I may get out there in a moment to get more accurate measurements for the SVX shaft. (Done)

Nate, where you at man? Gonna make me get under my car? :p

NikFu S.
01-16-2011, 07:36 PM
Ok again, this time I went back and really did measure these myself (actually it was like 2 weeks ago) with my own tape, and my own eyes and hands.

Manual trans Legacy, 05-09 series
34 3/8'' rear to center of bolt holes on the carrier
22 3/4'' bolt holes to the base (welds) of the yoke (I'm making the assumption the tip of the yoke from the welds is a known length. All the yokes, bearings, and flanges appear to be consistent year to year)

Auto trans Outback, 05-09 series
36 1/2'' rear to bolts
23'' bolts to welds

Stock shaft:
35 3/4''
21 3/8''
57 1/8'' length rear to weld (+4 for yoke)

I did the best I could and measured the OB shaft on my car installed and came to about a 60'' length from the rear diff to the forward shaft welds.

longassname
01-17-2011, 08:13 AM
The screen which gets clogged is actually in the transmission cooler in the older model radiators not the transmission itself. The latter model transmissions just have different transfer clutches and high clutch hubs. Subaru revised the high clutch hub several times. The very early SVX transmissions (the first part of the first year) also had a smaller reverse clutch.

Discounting a clogged cooler, it's actually the slipping of the high clutch that causes the heat rather than visa versa. I think it's important to note that this problem can now be eliminated by updating the TCU. There are individual line pressure control maps for each gear but in the stock programming Subaru used the same map for all 4 gears. It works fine for 1st and 2nd which use much, much larger clutch packs than 3rd and 4th but the line pressure is marginal to not good enough to hold the little high clutch under light cruise. This results in the transmission equivalent of driving with your brakes on, continuously wearing the high clutch and brake band and making huge amounts of heat. The stock programming results in about 65 lbs of line pressure at light cruise; I change it to close to the max pressure resulting in about 150 lbs of line pressure. This change is the fix for the transmission failures that plague all SVXs.


Stock: Builds up too much heat which leads to failure of the high clutch packs. A properly rebuilt stock trans with external filter and cooler should last as long as any 4.44 (or longer). 1995+ SVX transmissions are less prone to failure as long as they have the cooler and external filter. They don't have the internal screen that the 1992-1994ish have.

Ricter
03-23-2011, 01:17 PM
Generic trans swap question:

I've finally tracked down a local and reasonably priced 4.44 setup. My question however is, what else will I need in advance of swapping this out? My goal is to have every part necessary on hand before I attempt to tackle this. Barring any unforseen circumstances that is.

For instance, since the exhaust needs to come off, I assume I'll need new exhaust gaskets. Is that an accurate assumption? Which ones should I have on hand? What other sundry little tidbits should I acquire beforehand?

icingdeath88
03-23-2011, 01:27 PM
Generic trans swap question:

I've finally tracked down a local and reasonably priced 4.44 setup. My question however is, what else will I need in advance of swapping this out? My goal is to have every part necessary on hand before I attempt to tackle this. Barring any unforseen circumstances that is.

For instance, since the exhaust needs to come off, I assume I'll need new exhaust gaskets. Is that an accurate assumption? Which ones should I have on hand? What other sundry little tidbits should I acquire beforehand?

You have a 4.44 rear diff too right? I would order a rear main seal, just in case yours is leaking. Exhaust gaskets would be a good idea to get beforehand. Also make sure to get ATF and front and rear diff fluid too. Mobil1 synthetic ATF seems pretty well liked. If you're trying to get the car back on the road as quick as possible by doing everything possible beforehand, you're doing the right thing. Just remember that you can't predict everything and things go wrong sometimes, so have a back up plan in case it takes longer than expected.

Are you planning on pulling the motor/trans from the top, or dropping the trans? If you need to do some serious engine maintenance (valve cover gaskets for example) it might be a good idea to go ahead and pull the engine, since it's not that difficult.

Ricter
03-23-2011, 01:35 PM
You have a 4.44 rear diff too right? I would order a rear main seal, just in case yours is leaking. Exhaust gaskets would be a good idea to get beforehand. Also make sure to get ATF and front and rear diff fluid too. Mobil1 synthetic ATF seems pretty well liked. If you're trying to get the car back on the road as quick as possible by doing everything possible beforehand, you're doing the right thing. Just remember that you can't predict everything and things go wrong sometimes, so have a back up plan in case it takes longer than expected.

Are you planning on pulling the motor/trans from the top, or dropping the trans? If you need to do some serious engine maintenance (valve cover gaskets for example) it might be a good idea to go ahead and pull the engine, since it's not that difficult.

Yes, I have the matching rear diff, and I'l be accessing from the bottom. Most the major engine maintenance was completed prior to breaking my front diff. :(
Fluids are a given.
What I'm looking for is a comprehensive list of the small non-intuitive things that have to be replaced. I obviously can't plan for every bolt or bracket that I might break, but things like the exhaust gaskets came to mind immediately.

So far:
Exhaust gaskets.
- Do I just need the exhaust manifold ones, or will I need ones for the flanges further down the line too?

Rear main seal
- I'll check my records first just to verify this wasn't done when I had the engine out recently.

What else?

NikFu S.
03-23-2011, 03:06 PM
Trans mount?

longassname
03-23-2011, 03:06 PM
You'll want to put an ECUtune TCU for a 4.44 in it.

http://www.ecutune.com/tcu.htm

icingdeath88
03-23-2011, 03:28 PM
You'll want to put an ECUtune TCU for a 4.44 in it.

http://www.ecutune.com/tcu.htm

Are there differences depending on which ratio transmission you're using?

Ricter
03-23-2011, 03:45 PM
You'll want to put an ECUtune TCU for a 4.44 in it.

http://www.ecutune.com/tcu.htm

I'm assuming this isn't a requirement for the swap, and is instead a nice-to-have performace upgrade to go along with it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm simply looking for a comprehensive list of things that are needed to go along with the swap.

longassname
03-23-2011, 03:48 PM
It will make your awd work correctly. It will also prevent the immediate high clutch and brake band wear that would start as soon as you put that transmisison in an SVX.

I'm assuming this isn't a requirement for the swap, and is instead a nice-to-have performace upgrade to go along with it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm simply looking for a comprehensive list of things that are needed to go along with the swap.

longassname
03-23-2011, 05:20 PM
It actually won't fix the speedometer. It will just fix the calculations based on speed sensor 1 input in the tcu software.

processengr
03-24-2011, 08:11 AM
It actually won't fix the speedometer. It will just fix the calculations based on speed sensor 1 input in the tcu software.
Hi,
Compared to the stock transmission, my daughters 92 with 4.44 trans. speedometer is off by about 6% on the high side, also has rather abrupt part throttle 1 st to 2nd shift with mushy 2-3rd shift. Will the 4.44 TCU correct this condition?

longassname
03-24-2011, 03:31 PM
It won't effect the speedometer at all. I'm not sure if it will effect your shifts or not. The only change between the 4.44 version of the tcu chip and the regular tcu chip is to correct the vehicle speed sensor 1 reading. The foremost effect of which is to make the awd work optimally.


Hi,
Compared to the stock transmission, my daughters 92 with 4.44 trans. speedometer is off by about 6% on the high side, also has rather abrupt part throttle 1 st to 2nd shift with mushy 2-3rd shift. Will the 4.44 TCU correct this condition?

Chris_
03-24-2011, 05:52 PM
I think these swaps are for 4-eat ACT-4 but what swaps are possible if you have 4eat VTD ?

Coan
04-17-2011, 02:14 AM
I think these swaps are for 4-eat ACT-4 but what swaps are possible if you have 4eat VTD ?

That I don't know. As far as I know Nevin is the only one to swap a VTD trans into a USDM SVX, can anyone confirm that?

icingdeath88
04-17-2011, 04:16 PM
He already has a VTD svx.

You can do any of the manual swaps into a VTD SVX, but the USDM automatics are a no-go. You would want to put another VTD trans in it.

Coan
04-17-2011, 04:24 PM
He already has a VTD svx.

You can do any of the manual swaps into a VTD SVX, but the USDM automatics are a no-go. You would want to put another VTD trans in it.

"Location: Finland"

Totally missed that, that's what I get for posting at 2am. ;)

Tapani
11-26-2011, 12:17 PM
The only change between the 4.44 version of the tcu chip and the regular tcu chip is to correct the vehicle speed sensor 1 reading. The foremost effect of which is to make the awd work optimally.

There must be I do not understand, but why not just change the VSS2 reading? All shift maps are related to VSS1 readings..... Change that and each and every map must be adjusted too.

Why not just let the TCU think the car is actually going 25% faster? If the VSS2 was corrected to the "new" gearing then the TCU wouldn't see any slip and the solenoid C maps would be correct under all conditions.

Any thoughts?

Kind regards,

Tapani