new coilover opportunity (March, 2010)

[mbtoloczko]

Hey Guys,

I'm spending most of my bench racing time on an Evo forum these days, but I am always keeping my eye out for mods/parts for the SVX. A fellow Evo owner here in the Tri-Cities recently showed me a set of coilovers made by a company called AMR Engineering in Seattle. They are very well made single adjustable (rebound) coilovers with preload adjustment, ride height adjustment, and solid spherical joint top hats. I took a peek and the AMR website and found that they sell coilovers for a variety of cars with all their coilovers priced at about $1800/set. With a price this affordable, I immediately thought of the SVX and this evening, I finally made contact with the owner of the company.

I think you guys could be in a bit of luck as a few people he knows own an SVX, so he is aware of the lack of any true coilover products for the SVX. He told me that if someone is willing to pay, then he's willing to engineer a set for the SVX. He also suggested that a group buy would work for him as well. I am waiting for a response from the owner on estimated cost, but in the mean time, I wanted to get it out in the forum here for people to consider any possible interest.

For those who are interested, I just want to be clear that these are a full-on performance coilover. Most of his products run spring rates of at least 400 lbs/in. I believe that my buddy's Evo 10 has ~600 lb/in spring rates. Now these rates aren't necessarily going to make the ride harsh, but they will definitely make it firm, and the solid pillow ball top hats are going to transmit some noise. The point here is that these coilovers are aimed squarely at the high end handling enthusiast. It would be great to hear who is interested, I'll report back what I hear on pricing. BTW, just want to mention that I have no interest in being a middle man the sales aspect. I'm just in it for the love of the SVX, and if everything comes together, then you'll deal directly with AMR Engineering.

EDIT: My memory was a bit faulty. It appears that most models do not include camber adjustment in the top hats, so I removed that from my description above.

[LetItSnow]

Preloaded coilovers would be pretty fantastic.

[sicksubie]

chalk me up as very interested...

[Freeman]

chalk me up as very interested...

+1 sounds like a good alternative to Koni's

[Ricter]

I'm so interested it's not even funny.

[sicksubie]

Mychailo, question for you.. Any idea what the max spring rates are that the Koni's can handle? I remember discussing this with you and people at Koni and something being said about how the Konis being made now can handle significantly higher spring rates than older models. Something in my memory remembers hearing 600ish-lbs.. Any insight?

[SVXRide]

Mychailo,

Long time no post! Call me so we can catch up!

-Bill

[mbtoloczko]

Got some excellent news from AMR. The owner said he would do five sets of coilovers for ~$1895 shipped. (Or one set for ~$2600.) Definitely the best and only deal you guys are ever likely to see on true coilovers for the SVX. He said that with their busy schedule, it would take about 12-14 weeks before the first set would be complete. This is a group buy, so you'll need to identify five buyers (or one buyer at ~$2600) willing to pay in advance before contacting AMR. If you guys get that far, I have a spare set of stock struts that I have volunteered to send to him.

Mychailo, question for you.. Any idea what the max spring rates are that the Koni's can handle? I remember discussing this with you and people at Koni and something being said about how the Konis being made now can handle significantly higher spring rates than older models. Something in my memory remembers hearing 600ish-lbs.. Any insight?

According to GC, the max spring rate for the Koni inserts is about 450 lbs/in at the front. Don't recall what it is at the rear, but that rate has to be lower than 450 lbs/in for proper handling.

Mychailo,

Long time no post! Call me so we can catch up!

-Bill

Currently on my yearly vacation in Thailand with the wife and rug rat. :-) I'll be in touch after I return later this month.

[sicksubie]

Can we get more specs on these?

[mbtoloczko]

Can we get more specs on these?

Their website is:

http://www.amrengineering.com/

There aren't too many details on the website, but as I mentioned before:

- Single adjustable damping (rebound)
- Preload adjustable
- Ride height adjustable (separate from preload)
- Spherical joint top hats

I think its up to you guys what spring rate you want. Let me know what additional info you want, and I'll ask AMR.

[JACOBBOCAJ]

I am definitly interested in these. $1900 bucks is only a little more than the gc/koni setup would cost. Do we need to give money up front or when they are done? And if one of these breaks would they be willing to make replacements?

[mbtoloczko]

I am definitly interested in these. $1900 bucks is only a little more than the gc/koni setup would cost. Do we need to give money up front or when they are done? And if one of these breaks would they be willing to make replacements?

I'm sure that money will be required up front. The coilovers are fully rebuildable. The majority of the extra expense in creating a new coilover is in the upfront design work. After that, machining parts is pretty much just a matter of inputing the cutting program into the CNC. They back their products fully, and as long as they are in business, replacement parts will be available.

[JACOBBOCAJ]

so if we are ready to buy then what? and do you think they will continue to produce these? and slotted camber adjustment are definitly a want! maybe someone should start one of those fancy list.

[Tim]

Nice to see that you are back. Are you still doing springs?

[mbtoloczko]

Nice to see that you are back. Are you still doing springs?

Good to see many of the usual suspects are still here and active. I stopped doing springs quite a while ago. No time and too much difficulty with getting the supplier to come through with product in a consistent time frame.

so if we are ready to buy then what? and do you think they will continue to produce these? and slotted camber adjustment are definitly a want! maybe someone should start one of those fancy list.

As mentioned in one of my prior posts, there's are at least a couple ways this can go. Either one person can buy a set at ~$2600/set, or you guys can defray the initial costs with a group buy. I was told that for five sets, the cost would be ~$1900/set. If the number of willing buyers went up to 10, then the price per set would go down a bit further. Whichever way it goes, expect to have to pay in advance and wait 12-14 weeks for the coilovers. I'll scribble down two lists here:

INITIAL OPTION 1: One person buys one set at ~$2600/set.
1)

**OR**

INITIAL OPTION 2: Five people buy a set each at ~$1900/set.
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)

Whenever one of these lists is complete, someone give AMR Engineering a call to get the ball rolling.

[mbtoloczko]

Double post...

[sicksubie]

You might want to post this somewhere it will get more attention than buried in a sub forum of mod mania... If I can get a set that would have in the ballpark of 600lb springs I will be in 100%...

[Dessertrunner]

Mychailo well hi long time no hear,
I would like to put in my 2 bob worth. As you guys may be aware I have DMS struts which are great but can be a pain. They have bushes and a reverse tube so it is impossiable to stop the strut jaming after a period of time. They are also adjustiable in both direction, but the minium is still pretty hards so on a road car you nearly lose your teeth driving it. Next point due to these and other factors they have to be pulled down every 50,000 k to rebuild, that means I have had mine out about 5 times since installing them.

Based on the above I thing these look good, I would like to know what brad damper etc also is it like the Koni with a shaft at the top or is it like the DMS with a tube.
Tony

[mbtoloczko]

You might want to post this somewhere it will get more attention than buried in a sub forum of mod mania... If I can get a set that would have in the ballpark of 600lb springs I will be in 100%...

Yeah, I thought about posting in the General forum but didn't want to potentially annoy anyone with the appearance of crossposting. I think I'll post a link in that forum to this thread. AMR said that anything from 275 lbs/in to 1250 lbs/in is available. They use HyperCo springs which are among the highest quality. (I researched HyperCo when looking at spring options for my Koni/GC build.)

...

Based on the above I thing these look good, I would like to know what brad damper etc also is it like the Koni with a shaft at the top or is it like the DMS with a tube.
Tony

Hi Tony,

Good to see you are still in the SVX game and sorry I didn't back to you last summer. Life is pretty busy these days. Anyhow, these are a monotube damper, not inverted, so the shaft is above. The product is designed and built entirely in-house at AMR. Are you considering putting a set in your offroad SVX? If yes, I think you'd need a custom offroad design.

[Dessertrunner]

Mychailo,
Yes I am trying to find a better strut, The DMS are tough but for me they have two faults they work in the up and down direction which tends to give a rough ride on dirt at speed & fact you can't fit boots over the top of the strut tube means it builds up with mud as stops moving up and down.
You may be right about needing a tougher one. I will know soon but I think I even bent one of the Dms which show what punishment they get.
Tony

[Bonestock]

Hmmm this is a tough one.. even at the lowest spring rate (275lb) we are still higher than most aftermarket "sport" springs for Evo's! I loved my Evo but I cant say I want my SVX to ride as firm. If only we could get that spring rate down a bit more.

[1986nate]

Hmmm this is a tough one.. even at the lowest spring rate (275lb) we are still higher than most aftermarket "sport" springs for Evo's! I loved my Evo but I cant say I want my SVX to ride as firm. If only we could get that spring rate down a bit more.

I actually drove Old Tom's claret while I was on my trip and even going over all the bumpy roads around his place, I thought that his setup was not too firm or not streetable at all. His rates were 400 in front and 300 in the rear if I recall correctly. It still had a smooth ride and felt great. I don't get why everyone on here complains about the harshness of lower rates than that even. :confused:

[mbtoloczko]

Hmmm this is a tough one.. even at the lowest spring rate (275lb) we are still higher than most aftermarket "sport" springs for Evo's! I loved my Evo but I cant say I want my SVX to ride as firm. If only we could get that spring rate down a bit more.

The front spring rates are most comparable between the SVX and Evo because both have a MacPherson strut design. Stock Evo is about 200 lbs/in (measured it myself), while the GTWORX springs are 290 lbs/in in the front, the Swift Sport springs settle at about 270 lbs/in in the front, and the Swift Spec R front spring settles at more than 300 lbs/in. So, the lightest available rate for the SVX coilover is comparable to the rate of the better sport strut springs for the Evo (and way lower than all standard coilover spring rates for the Evo). I'm sure you know that there are other contributing factors, namely the damper response. Anyhow, these are definitely a sport oriented coilover.

[Bonestock]

The front spring rates are most comparable between the SVX and Evo because both have a MacPherson strut design. Stock Evo is about 200 lbs/in (measured it myself), while the GTWORX springs are 290 lbs/in in the front, the Swift Sport springs settle at about 270 lbs/in in the front, and the Swift Spec R front spring settles at more than 300 lbs/in. So, the lightest available rate for the SVX coilover is comparable to the rate of the better sport strut springs for the Evo (and way lower than all standard coilover spring rates for the Evo). I'm sure you know that there are other contributing factors, namely the damper response. Anyhow, these are definitely a sport oriented coilover.


Thanks for a good response. Those seem to be in short supply on this forum. I actually ran the Swift Sport springs on my Nur spec Evo VIII. We lived in England back then and I thought those made it a bit too skittish on those bumpy British "B" roads. Granted we have, for the most part, better roads here. I understand we are dealing with about 600lb of more mass & a totally different intended purpose with the SVX. What are the stock spring rates for the SVX?
I'm not trying to waste your time but put the pieces together to decide if this is a worthwhile pursuit for me.

BTW I used the same username on EvoM but add an ! on the end. My 2005 GSR made 350whp/330lbft at 21psi on a stock VIII turbo with the basics, FMIC & chargepipes, TBE, Intake, tune and....Oh yeah 272 cams running -4/-1. Damn I should have never sold that car. I think I still hold the record at Mase Engineering (dyno dynamics dyno) for the highest WHP on a stock turbo VIII w/o any power adders. But then when I sold it gas was hitting $4.50 a gallon! Add in 180 miles to the tank... you get the picture. LOL But then I am sure with your numbers this isn't anything new to you.

[viking64]

Mychailo,
Yes I am trying to find a better strut, The DMS are tough but for me they have two faults they work in the up and down direction which tends to give a rough ride on dirt at speed & fact you can't fit boots over the top of the strut tube means it builds up with mud as stops moving up and down.
You may be right about needing a tougher one. I will know soon but I think I even bent one of the Dms which show what punishment they get.
Tony

Hey Tony,
I am getting a a set of Tein made up - will keep you in the loop if you are interested. These are able to be serviced/ revalved locally - they have a set of complete struts I sent them and are coming back with a couple of options - our struts using inserts, coil over set up with height &/or dampener adjust or complete new setup.
I've been slow on chasing this up till now due to my engine problems - now fixed:D

bruce

[mbtoloczko]

Its not quite a fair comparison to look at how a stock Evo damper is going to handle a spring that is 35% stiffer than stock especially because the stock Evo KYB strut is not such a great strut.

Anyhow, the stock SVX spring rates are 140 lbs/in in the front and 110 lbs/in in the rear. They are amazingly soft. I think the only reason the SVX doesn't bottom out on every bump is because it has so much wheel travel. Considering that the SVX weighs ~400 lbs more than an Evo, a 275 lb/in spring isn't so heavy, and a proper rebound setting should make them ride on the firm side but cleanly.

350 whp with mild mods is definitely good on a DD dyno.

[Crazy_pilot]

I ride in a couple cars that are coilover equipped on a regular basis. One is a 240SX running Stance suspension with 450 front/350 rear spring rates. The other is a Prelude running Tein Super Streets with 450 front/225 rear. I don't find either to be unpleasant to drive, even on the garbage roads we have around here. Obviously neither has the comfort of the SVX, but when modding a car it's very seldom possible to have both worlds. If you want performance and handling, you will have to sacrifice comfort. If you want your car to soak up every bump and ride like a Caddy, it will probably handle like a tank.

[Bonestock]

If you want performance and handling, you will have to sacrifice comfort. If you want your car to soak up every bump and ride like a Caddy, it will probably handle like a tank.


You see I have a problem with that blanket statement. I'll tell you what. Grab yourself a ride in an Evo and then a STi. The Evo will impart a sense of absolute control with razor sharp steering response. Great right? Well on a smooth track there isn't another 4dr car on the planet that will do the job better. Yet get that same car on a bumpy, uneven road and all of a sudden its firm suspension, bushings and super fast steering become more of a liability.

Now enter a known "softer" STi and while not near as good as the Evo on a track, get it on a bumpy road (I prefer dirt!) and OMG, you know exactly what Subaru was on about. Its planted and soaks up the bumps and such that would have an Evo in the ditch. :eek:

Now consider that most of us will never push a SVX around Silverstone or Laguna Seca, a really firm non-compliant ride serves what purpose?:confused: This isnt a dig but an honest question. Yes we will get a much needed option for replacing our struts and the ability to adjust the ride height to our personal taste. Does it end there? Not a bad thing if you ask me. But if thats all it is... so be it.:cool:

I worked for BTCC driver Gareth Howell while I lived in the UK and he taught me a few things. One premise can not be debated.... "Build a car for its intended purpose with parts designed to work together properly".

So with that in mind could the SVX tolerate a 135lb spring rate increase w/o sacrificing ride compliance and handling? Do we wonder about other suspension components like ball joints & bushings tolerating the increase? I mean we are doubling the spring rate at just 275lb. I dont know to be honest. I'd love to drive one with that set up to find out. I am REALLY interested in these coil overs. Now if we could get some feedback on them once installed. Granted everything is subjective when dealing with what each of us may find acceptable.

As always, YMMV.:)

[sunvalleyray]

Update...I dropped off a complete set of spare struts at AMR Engineering and had two meetings witht the owner, Andy Reyes - info@amrengineering.com. I do not pretend to be an expert but from the research I have done, Andy's products are extremely high quality. His plan is to develop a coilover specifically designed for the SVX and offer them on a custom basis. If interested, please send Andy an email, timeframe and/or deposit not required.

sunvalleyray

[Tim]

I actually drove Old Tom's claret while I was on my trip and even going over all the bumpy roads around his place, I thought that his setup was not too firm or not streetable at all. His rates were 400 in front and 300 in the rear if I recall correctly. It still had a smooth ride and felt great. I don't get why everyone on here complains about the harshness of lower rates than that even. :confused:

I'm running 450/350's and it runs very smoothly. It's not too harsh for daily driving. The 18's make it a little rougher of a ride, but not too noticeable on factory 16's. Either way, a blast to drive :D

[LetItSnow]

"Too harsh for daily driving" is totally a matter of perspective. If not for an interest in handling to pursue autocross performance, I'd consider my 385/315 (iirc) combo to be a little firmer than I'd like, partly due to feeling road irregularities, and mostly due to the SMASH (not BUMP) felt when hitting even subtle potholes - something I haven't found in any stock suspension. I'm not the type to choose a squishy ride; I do dig performance and lean that way when modifying my cars, but I'm prone to believe that a 450/350 combo would be too firm for most tastes.

[XT6Wagon]

proper spring rates are proper spring rates. Don't be confused by soft = comfy and stiff = evil.

My legacy GT I was running 9K front, 10K rear springs and it was less harsh than a stock Outback (which frankly was brutal for a stock suspension). The extra spring rate worked wonders for keeping the car out of the suspension stops. And if you really want comfy you should roll good quality all-season tires with a decent sidewall height as the start to a better, quieter ride.

With 6k springs in front as the first test items it was into the bumpstop over anything much thicker than a painted line it felt like. 8K was about the right spot.

Oh and the stiffness Vs ridequality will also depend on the strut stiffness. My testing was usualy done with the strut on full soft to minimize its effects on the selection. Its certainly possible if the struts are very hard in compression that a lower rate spring will be approprate given the extra resistance from the strut.

Last if someone knows what cars if any the SVX shares tophats with, it will make thier job much easier since they can use off the shelf parts there.