Venting: Am I a Racist??

[sowise]

Something I don't understand is why is there such a stigma around Black Slavery that in todays society we (whites) are almost forced to feel a certain amount of guilt and responsibility to make up for the actions of other and earlier whites from that period when slavery existed. If we don't feel that guilt or accept that responsibility then we are deemed racist or worse. Personally I feel no guilt for anyones actions but my own and I do not believe I or our current generation should be held accountable for the actions of generations prior. I don't know of any Black Americans that are alive today that can remember back to the time of slavery. There were racial inequalities and laws but even that was long enough ago that only their older generation is able to remember. I often feel like we are being forced to apologize and there have been talks of government restitution for families of former slaves. With todays political climate and the race card being pulled on a regular basis usually in reference to policy disagreements with our current president it got me to thinking. Pretty much every race has been slaves at one time or another. Blacks were not the only race being enslaved or mistreated. Prior to the holocaust Jews were slaves for many years even centuries. Muslims had white slaves. England sold and shipped out millions of Irish and Scottish slaves. America had a very large portion of white slaves that isn't really written about in the history books and if you do read it they play word games like indentured servants etc. However, the white slaves were cheaper to buy and replace than the black slaves. White slaves were treated worse because of this and more tended to die during over seas shipping about 10% vs 25-50% of whites. Why do I bring this up well it is because I don't see whites looking for apologies or placing blame or forcing governments to take responsibility for their current social positions based on their previous generations of slavery. Here are some historical examples:

White Slavery usually describing white men from English debtor prisons who were bought by the American colonies. Who ended up working in the fields right along side the "black" slaves they were sometimes refereed to as "Red Necks" due to the fact that they tended to burn versus tan. "Crackers" Came about due to the fact that some of the white people were so poor that they had nothing but crackers to eat. Lastly the term "Hillbilly" came from when the white slaves would run away and try to hide in the hills example (You better head for the hills) The white slaves tended to be kept even after the "blacks" were emancipated in fact latter some of the "blacks" took slaves of their own some being white some being "black".

I challenge any researcher to study 17th century colonial America, sifting the documents, the jargon and the statutes on both sides of the Atlantic and one will discover that White slavery was a far more extensive operation than Black enslavement. It is when we come to the 18th century that one begins to encounter more "servitude" on the basis of a contract of indenture. But even in that period there was kidnapping of Anglo-Saxons into slavery as well as convict slavery.

In 1855, Frederic Law Olmsted, the landscape architect who designed New York's Central Park, was in Alabama on a pleasure trip and saw bales of cotton being thrown from a considerable height into a cargo ship's hold. The men tossing the bales somewhat recklessly into the hold were Negroes, the men in the hold were Irish.
Olmsted inquired about this to a shipworker. "Oh," said the worker, "the n*****s are worth too much to be risked here; if the Paddies are knocked overboard or get their backs broke, nobody loses anything."

Work sited: They were white and they were slaves by Michael A. Hoffman

“There will only be racial peace when knowledge of radical historical truths are widespread and both sides negotiate from positions of strength and not from fantasies of White working class guilt and the uniqueness of Black suffering.”

So the trials the blacks face is not unique to them and I don't feel like they should be able to continue to play the victim in the decades to come. I sympathize and understand but they don't own the patent on being former slaves. I am of Irish decent but you don't see me throwing the race card or ethnic card out there whenever I am treated unfairly or indifferently though the persecution of my ancestors was at least as bad if not worse than what previous generations of blacks have endured. So I guess I just don't get it. I am sure I will get flamed for my views on this but so be it. I am not racist and didn't grow up hating any race or nationality but I am sure some people will be offended by what I am writing or trying to say here. I just think it is time to get over it and move on no matter what race or ethnic group.

[Hondasucks]

As far as criticism of the President goes, if you disagree with him, or thing he's doing a bad job or whatever, that does not make you racist. It's only racist if you complain about something BECAUSE he's black, or if you had said during the election "I'm not voting for a black man", that is racism. I didn't vote for him, and I would have not voted for him even if he had been white, and I still would have voted for McCain if he had been black.
I do think it's ridiculous how many people play the racism card every time someone criticizes the President, because in most cases, it's not racist.

[ensteele]

There are other races that play that victim card and want to be compensated for their forefathers. I did not do it to them, and I did not do it to their forefathers, my forefathers did it to their forefathers. They are not the vicims here, but think that they should be compensated for it. I am not a racist either, and in fact, have helped with the rights of some of these minorities. Many in our government have too much apathy and use our money to get over their guilt for something that they are not responsible for. :o

[SoCal LS-L]

The thing I have a real problem with is the fact that nowadays its ok to say almost anything negative about "white people", but if you are caucasian, its politically incorrect to even refer to african americans as "black".

In addition, why is it ok to have single race-only groups such as the United Negro College Fund, NAACP, etc. while at the same time, if someone tried to establish a trust or charity that was CAUCASIAN ONLY, minorities would lose their minds.

Take for example the Chappelle show (which I loved), and the episode where the one white kid is forced to live in a house full of blacks. The things they do to this kid.... including beating his dad up basically for being white, taking the kids girlfriend and having sex with her, and then later RAPING the kid..... switch the roles where its a house full of whites and they do that to the single black kid.... COULD YOU IMAGINE the media chaos, the protests, the rantings of that scumbag Al Sharpton? Or if 6 white kids beat one black kid to near death.... and thousands of white people protested to set them free (Jena 6 case, remember?).

The past is the past, im native american and I dont go around crying my eyes out all bleeping day that I should be able to roam free on the plains spearing buffalo..... why the bleep cant certain minority groups just start looking towards their future, instead of just hating on everyone else for the past??

[sowise]

Yeh I agree, I don't know anyone in daily conversations who says African American. Most of the guys I work with are from all different races and backgrounds though. One of the guys is nick named "Other" because everytime he fills out a form and they ask for race there is no box for half white half korean. So he has to choose other. I don't understand the whole political correctness thing. Just seems to cause more problems and resentment than it solves. Besides what is or isn't politically correct changes from day to day anyway.

[SorelyVeXed]

Sowise -
As you so amply demonstrate by posing your detailed question, racial injustice - real or perceived - is not so easy to just "get over". If it was, you wouldn't be upset by what you view as a societal racial injustice. You would simply "get over it", and move on with your everyday life, right? In America, there are members of every single racial group (including whites) who "play the race card".
"I wasn't accepted at that institution because..."
"I didn't get that job because....."
"Those people got a better deal than me because..."

...blah-blah-blah-yada-yada-yada. And, every single one of those people can recite a litany of historical incidents that prove his/her particular point of view.

The saving grace is, there are also members of every single racial group in America who do not "play the race card". They get up every morning, and grind through the day working on bettering themselves and their lives, regardless of personal circumstance. They don't allow any animosity, engendered by their perceptions of injustice, to get in the way of forming good, healthy relationships with anyone, regardless of race. And that, to me, is key in determining one's own racism. I don't care what race you are, if your perceptions keep you from forming positive relationships with anyone from, or cause you to have a negative view of, an entire race of people, I would say you most likely have "issues".

SoCal LS-L (Chris) - it is commendable that you have accepted that the "past is the past", and you have chosen to move forward with your life. But, there are many native americans who are, rightly or wrongly, quite angry about their treatment in this country - both historically, and currently. Many of them are quite vocal in their anger. Many of them would be deeply offended by a white person calling them "indians". Do you have a "real problem" with them too? Or, is it just blacks? Somehow, calling out other groups on their faults and flaws, without acknowledging those same faults and flaws in one's own group, seems unfair.

Finally, regarding the black vs. african-american thing - that debate has raged within the black community for years. There are many black people who don't like being referred to as african-american, who only find the term black as acceptable. There are also many, many black people who prefer to be referred to as african-american, but take absolutely no exception to being called black. And, yes, there are many black people who do not like being called black (particularly by whites), and who only find the term african-american acceptable. There is a recorded debate headed by Smokey Robinson (for those who don't know, of Motown fame) on this very issue. He prefers the term black.

It is unfortunate that issues of race will never die on this planet. I have come to accept that fact. I guess I just.....got over it .............

[Hondasucks]

I understand the deal with African-American, because you can be "black" without being from Africa.

[SoCal LS-L]

SoCal LS-L (Chris) - it is commendable that you have accepted that the "past is the past", and you have chosen to move forward with your life. But, there are many native americans who are, rightly or wrongly, quite angry about their treatment in this country - both historically, and currently. Many of them are quite vocal in their anger. Many of them would be deeply offended by a white person calling them "indians". Do you have a "real problem" with them too? Or, is it just blacks? Somehow, calling out other groups on their faults and flaws, without acknowledging those same faults and flaws in one's own group, seems unfair.


It just seems like nowadays its "payback time" for anyone who felt oppressed, and its not fair to the people who werent even around then to have to "repay"....

I guess the whole point of my rant is..... generalized hate for another race because of past injustices, and bitterness towards any ethnic group solely because of the mistakes of individuals in that group, only serve to do harm to the person who is hateful. I have bitter family on my dads side (Blackfeet) who are still pissed about what happened way back when, and all it has done is make them angry, unhappy people. Those who can find a way to not worry about things they cant change are the most happy.... and I like to think im in that category.

[LetItSnow]

I understand the deal with African-American, because you can be "black" without being from Africa.
Roots being roots, word is you can't be anybody without being "from" Africa.

[SorelyVeXed]

I understand the deal with African-American, because you can be "black" without being from Africa.

At least 90% of us (I’m black) did not move here from Africa, nor do we have African parents. I think the term African American for most black Americans is a misnomer. I don’t care if someone chooses to call me that. I just think it is incorrect, and a little silly. Interestingly enough, while Barack Obama is not black – he’s biracial – he is indeed African-American. With an African father and an American mother, I think he fits the bill.

It just seems like nowadays its "payback time" for anyone who felt oppressed, and its not fair to the people who werent even around then to have to "repay".....
I don’t know how old you are, but my father, who is still alive, my brother and I are certainly old enough to remember (for example) Jim Crow laws. And there are quite a few white people still alive today who were alive then, and supported those laws. The “oppression”, if you will, of black people in this country is not just about slavery. Far from it. Having said that, I don’t expect, or want, anyone to “pay me back” for anything. It’s a ridiculous notion. And there are many black people who feel the same way. I know some.

…I guess the whole point of my rant is..... generalized hate for another race because of past injustices, and bitterness towards any ethnic group solely because of the mistakes of individuals in that group, only serve to do harm to the person who is hateful. …
Generalized hatred for another RACE of people for ANY reason is wrong and destructive. It is harmful, not just to the hateful person, but to everyone caught in his/her poisonous environment.

…I have bitter family on my dads side (Blackfeet) who are still pissed about what happened way back when, and all it has done is make them angry, unhappy people.
I don’t know how close you are to your dad, but you might want to ask him if he thinks the negative attitudes he and his father experienced as young men towards Native Americans have changed much today. I’m not so sure that his view of Native American oppression would be as far removed from the present as yours. Unfortunately, as happens all too often with people, he may have allowed his view of oppression to consume him. A circumstance which, if true, renders him powerless to help himself, or his people. That would be truly sad.

…Those who can find a way to not worry about things they cant change are the most happy.... and I like to think im in that category.
I couldn’t agree with you more. I hope you are in that category. So don’t allow yourself to get too worked up about some blacks, some latinos, some asians, and (yes) some whites, who don’t “get it”. Relax, “get over it”, and enjoy life. It’s too short to stress about BS you can’t control………;)

Roots being roots, word is you can't be anybody without being "from" Africa.
That’s a whole ‘nother story my man. :D

[RSVX]

Best. Post. Ever.

[Landshark]

Best. Post. Ever.


http://static.open.salon.com/files/thatsracistgm751224856460.gif

[SoCal LS-L]

Oh jeeze, Jim Crow, that guy was a complete bastard. Im really fortunate that I didnt grow up in the south, or have a racist father around to pass that sh** down to me :mad: I would ask him about the race thing, but I never knew the guy.... he crashed his motorcycle before I was born and died. The more I learn about him the less of a tragedy it seems to me :rolleyes:

[SorelyVeXed]

...I would ask him about the race thing, but I never knew the guy.... he crashed his motorcycle before I was born and died. The more I learn about him the less of a tragedy it seems to me :rolleyes:
Man, I am truly sorry that you never had a chance to even know your dad. I can't imagine that. Hopefully, those who knew him told you the good stuff, not just the bad. After all, the man is not here to tell his side of the story.

Best of luck to you Chris. Maybe, if we Southern Californians can ever get it together enough to have an SVX event, we'll have a chance to meet each other.
Later.

[immortal_suby]

Warning: language not safe for work or children!

Louis always has an interesting point of view.

TG4f9zR5yzY

[SoCal LS-L]

Man, I am truly sorry that you never had a chance to even know your dad. I can't imagine that. Hopefully, those who knew him told you the good stuff, not just the bad. After all, the man is not here to tell his side of the story.

Best of luck to you Chris. Maybe, if we Southern Californians can ever get it together enough to have an SVX event, we'll have a chance to meet each other.
Later.

I appreciate that man, thanks. It did suck at points, especially in the teen years when I needed the most advice on being a man, but the lack of support and finances helped me to become a lot more self-reliant, which I am extremely thankful for. Not the least of which is learning how to work on cars, since all I could afford in highschool was a POS that I learned to fix myself, and that has saved me money many times over since.

It would be nice to get us all hooked up somewhere down here, I think theres enough active southern cal members to arrange a small meet at least. Hopefully if we could plan it out far enough in advance we could all make it.

[ensteele]

I understand the deal with African-American, because you can be "black" without being from Africa.

Do you mean generations ago or they themselves are from Africa. Most are not from Africa, but were born here, so are from here. :o

[Landshark]

Warning: language not safe for work or children!

Louis always has an interesting point of view.

TG4f9zR5yzY


you beat me to it. :lol:



i prefer to be called a German/Austrian/Welsh/Irish/Scottish/Cherokee-American.
http://www.united-nations-of-beer.com/images/lazy-mutt-farmhouse-ale-20293.jpg



Noir gets angry and will pull the race card if you don't refer to him as a Donkey-American.

[Zandar]

I think we should have justice once and for all, and put to death every American who owned slaves!

Now that they're dead, you're free to return to your regularly scheduled democracy.

[TomsSVX]

Ok, I did study World History and American history deeply while I was in college and can add a little to this.

1. The term "cracker" was initially brought to be for a couple reasons. Likely the first you already mentioned. The more significantly remembered reason was "whip cracker" meant to denominate the white population by slaves pre-antebellum period. So it is just as much a derogatory term as nigger.

2. I agree that the Irish were exploited just as much if not more than blacks all over the world INCLUDING America. They were beneath blacks on the social structure in early America and in the early 1900's it got worse. Many people forget to teach in their classrooms that American cities were built on the backs of the Irish and Italians.

3. You bring up an interesting point, calling someone a racists if they say "I didn't vote for Obama because he is black." This statement could be persecuted to the HILLS!! But notice no one who said "I voted for Obama because he is black" was ever given a second glance.... Racial preference is just as evil as racial prejudice.

4. I taught African history, most of it was reliant upon the African slave trade to and from the middle east and the Indies. One thing I had to add was the grossly overlooked and under-published information of the African people trading slaves of any race. It was money, no one looked at it from a skin color aspect, just a monetary trade. Later in history lesser developed regions of the world were exploited for their people and resources as slaves because they were easily commandeered and controlled. Africa had lacked on social and technological developments due to social confines of communal beliefs and rituals.

5. Don't feel like you are a racist because someone may think you are. A racists knows deep down that they have an internal disgust and dislike for certain groups of people. If you can honestly tell yourself that you do not posses this than I doubt you really are a racist.

6. Race itself is a social construct. I typically put "race" or any other variation of the word in quotes because it is not REAL. Genetically speaking it has been proven that there is no real difference in DNA between any social constructed racial group from each other. I personally take the stance that we should do our best never to use the word(s) because of this and that continuing its use is detrimental to the abolition of racism.

None of this goes to say that blacks were not mistreated in this country. We know for a fact that they were and some still are today. But if you really wanted equal rights, then you would want to be treated equally, not better than anyone else. Which reparations contradict sharply. The world no matter how bright it may seem is a downright evil place to live. It is and always will be every man/woman for themselves, so do your best to get a leg up or else you will always feel the need to pull a pitty card whether it be based on race or class.

Tom

[LetItSnow]

Roots being roots, word is you can't be anybody without being "from" Africa.
That’s a whole ‘nother story my man. :D
I s'poze my quote can be construed in two very different fashions. :lol:

The one I meant involved "Out of Africa" - the concept that the primordial goo we've all come from was somewhere in said continent. ;)

[TomsSVX]

I s'poze my quote can be construed in two very different fashions. :lol:

The one I meant involved "Out of Africa" - the concept that the primordial goo we've all come from was somewhere in said continent. ;)


Truth... the human race in its earliest forms spawned from the African continent and moved outwards very slowly...

Tom

[Myxalplyx]

/subscribe

:) No need to comment at the moment. Just watching!

[Myxalplyx]

Warning: language not safe for work or children!

Louis always has an interesting point of view.


:lol: Funny stuff!

[sowise]

Ok this kind of goes along with the whole "racist" theme. Everytime I hear someone on the news or radio trying to justify why the right wingers and tea partiers are racist the same comments seem to keep coming up.
That the comment they are racist because they keep saying things like give us our country back.
I think that is one of the most ignorant stupidest reinforcements I have ever heard. That statement has nothing to do with white or black. That statement has to do with giving the government back to the PEOPLE white or black etc. The media and others keep perpetuating this as a racist demand of whites.
Now there is one negative thing to being on the side that disagrees with the current administration and their direction and policies.
Yes there is racism in the world it is all over the world white on white, black on black and white on black and YES Black on white, north vs south east vs west. There are neo nazi groups and KKK is still out and about but they are truly a minority and it sucks that their racist reasons against the president are also considered the same reasons of the people that truly do disagree and truly do want change just not the change this administration is offering.