ported/polished/coated manifolds 3Q's in 1

[RoughSilver92]

I was googling earlier and came across this:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1221016&page=4
Near the bottom are some svx manifolds. The coating of both sides seems like a solid idea. These would help the performance of an NA car also, correct?

Also, on the first page they talk about coating the intake manifold, and also removing the tgv (tumble generator valves). Would thermal coating the intake be a benefit or a bad idea? I know my intake manifold gets hot to the touch, so I would think coating it would trap heat in.

Now on to the TGV. I could have swore I came across a post or two before mentioning TGV on the svx, but now I can't find any. Do we have them, and is there really any benefit to removing them?

[redlightningsvx]

I've seen those manifolds mentioned before. I think Svxfiles has his intake manifold thermocoated.

[svxfiles]

I've seen those manifolds mentioned before. I think svxfiles has his intake manifold thermocoated.

Yes, yes he does!















No, we don't have tumble valves.

Check out my old locker about the coated manifold, plus the PHENOLIC spacers.:D

[Crazy_pilot]

The idea of thermal coating the intake on the inside is to isolate the heat to the metal, and keep it from radiating into the incoming air. Cooler air charge = more power.

As for coating the manifolds on the inside...not sure there's much point. Maybe to keep the heat in the exhaust gases, instead of heating the manifolds as much, which then radiate heat outwards. If I had an F/I car then that might be important, but I don't see any reason for that with an N/A.

[RoughSilver92]

So...
Coating the inside on intake+phenolic spacers = good
port/polish exhaust manifold = good
coating exhaust manifold = ok for NA, but probably $ spent better elsewhere
and we've already got tgv delete:)

[svxfiles]

The idea of thermal coating the intake on the inside is to isolate the heat to the metal, and keep it from radiating into the incoming air. Cooler air charge = more power.

As for coating the manifolds on the inside...not sure there's much point. Maybe to keep the heat in the exhaust gases, instead of heating the manifolds as much, which then radiate heat outwards. If I had an F/I car then that might be important, but I don't see any reason for that with an N/A.

When you get something like an intake manifold CERAMIC coated, they abrase (sp?, Di is not here to ask:o)
both the inside and the outside, they coat both the inside and the outside, at least that is the procedure at Thermal Tech Coatings.

The only person that I know who has had their exhaust headers coated, at the same facility, has had the 2000°f coating flake off.:confused:
I have been VERY happy with their work, and have sent and will send them more things in the future.:)
Tom

[svxfiles]

So...
Coating the inside on intake+phenolic spacers = good
port/polish exhaust manifold = good
coating exhaust manifold = ok for NA, but probably $ spent better elsewhere
and we've already got tgv delete:)

Yes.
Yes.
My supercharger engineer tells me that coating at a lower temp would last longer.

[cozykat]

I was googling earlier and came across this:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1221016&page=4
Near the bottom are some svx manifolds. The coating of both sides seems like a solid idea. These would help the performance of an NA car also, correct?

Also, on the first page they talk about coating the intake manifold, and also removing the tgv (tumble generator valves). Would thermal coating the intake be a benefit or a bad idea? I know my intake manifold gets hot to the touch, so I would think coating it would trap heat in.

Now on to the TGV. I could have swore I came across a post or two before mentioning TGV on the svx, but now I can't find any. Do we have them, and is there really any benefit to removing them?

Yes, GrimmSpeed has recently started offering PnP on the exhaust manifolds. They will also PnP pretty much anything else. I am currently talking to Mike @ GS about the pricing for the intake.


SVX Exhaust Manifold PnP direct link (http://www.grimmspeed.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=134 )

[SilverSpear]

I say $280 is a ridiculous price...

[svxcess]

.

For the benefits and specifications of ThermalTech's "cermakrome" ceramic-metallic coating, click HERE (http://www.thermaltechcoatings.com/prod01.htm)

For the benefits and specs of Airborn Coating's Aluminum Ceramic coating, click HERE (http://www.airborncoatings.com/index3.html)

I have used them both and they are great to work with.

.

[Freeman]

Well to get the coating it's $339.98!!!

My lord there is no way this could be worth THAT much money...

[Sov13t]

:rolleyes: It is all relative...

If that $339.98 is going to keep your $18k (referring to your signature) investment from burning up - I bet you will pay that much without blinking.

However, if its purely for looks and presents no gains (on a relatively stock engine) $339.98 is a bit expensive. I recommend sharpies instead :D

-Sov13t.
__________________
http://www.sov13t.com/userbar.jpg

[Freeman]

:rolleyes: It is all relative...

If that $339.98 is going to keep your $18k (referring to your signature) investment from burning up - I bet you will pay that much without blinking.

However, if its purely for looks and presents no gains (on a relatively stock engine) $339.98 is a bit expensive. I recommend sharpies instead :D

-Sov13t.

I didn't think of that.. Protecting the "investment", that is.

Good point. As for the sharpies, I'm not sure why people would want it colored anyway. Not like anybody is looking hard at your exhaust manifolds in the first place.. lol

[Maxo]

I had my Buell xb12 headers coated by jet-hot and am very satisfied. I think it cost me around $170 with shipping and all. I have no idea what it would cost to get an svx intake or exhaust coated. They do offer discounts and run promotions regularly, I got 10% off.

[Freeman]

I had my Buell xb12 headers coated by jet-hot and am very satisfied. I think it cost me around $170 with shipping and all. I have no idea what it would cost to get an svx intake or exhaust coated. They do offer discounts and run promotions regularly, I got 10% off.

Yeah the coating is only around $55.00 but it cost a lot more to have them ported and polished...

[RoughSilver92]

That's not bad for just the coating. I think I wold feel comfortable trying my hand at porting a set of manifolds, then sending them out to be coated. Probably pretty hard to mess those up too bad. Not like there are water jackets or anything to watch out for like in a head. I've always thought it would be interesting to see what kind of gains could be made with minimal performance parts by simply optimizing what is already there. Like special coatings, synthetic fluids, water wetter, coldest inlet air possible, stuff like that. Probably not huge gains, but still interesting.

[Johnybeas]

What's the science behind the spacers? What are they supposed to do??? How much are the spacers??? Also, can't any machine shop port and polish the exhaust manifolds (or headers as some would call them)? Has anyone found anyone who would do it cheaper??? If you were to go to a machine shop and ask for them to be ported and polished are there any specific measurements to have them ported out to??? Sorry if some of these are newb questions, I'm still learning.

[RoughSilver92]

I believe the idea behind the spacers is to keep the intake temp. down. There may also be some benefit from longer intake runners at a given rpm range, but I am uncertain about that. As far as price and where to buy, idk. Probably in another thread somewhere, or maybe somebody will chime in. And yes, a machine shop could probably port a manifold for you, or at least direct you to someone that could. Or you could get a die grinder and try it yourself, maybe practice on a piece from a junkyard first. I found a great how-to a few years back by a company that sells a kit with the stones and abrasives you would need.
http://www.sa-motorsports.com/diyport.aspx
From what I understand you want your exhaust manifold passages slightly larger than the exhaust port on the head to keep exhaust gases from traveling back into the combustion chamber.

[RoughSilver92]

But be sure to keep the openings slightly smaller than the gasket so it will seal.
So basically just follow the nice outline of carbon buildup.

[Johnybeas]

...So basically just follow the nice outline of carbon buildup.
lol:lol: I hope someone chimes in, if it's inexpensive and causes significant cooling, it might be a worthwhile investment.

[RoughSilver92]

It looks like the phenolic spacers are from outlaw engineering.
I don't know if they are still available, but their website is here:
http://www.outlawengineering.com/index.html
I hope I can still get some!

[svxfiles]

My intake manifold never gets hotter than 140°f.:)
A normal manifold after the engine warms up is much closer to 200°f.
I have both sets of spacers, the ones to the stacks, and the ones to the "spider" manifold.
My manifold is also vented and ceramic plated.
You can call Outlaw Engineering directly.
317.496.7205
I am very happy with this product and will install them on other 3.3s in the future.

[Sov13t]

I am very happy with this product and will install them on other 3.3s in the future.

;)

__________________
http://www.sov13t.com/userbar.jpg

[Johnybeas]

sounds awesome tom, how much much did they cost?

[RoughSilver92]

Wow, Outlaw Engineering is right here in Indiana, too!
Now what does a "vented" intake manifold mean? The only thing I can think of is maybe you have a hood scoop.

[svxfiles]

Wow, Outlaw Engineering is right here in Indiana, too!
Now what does a "vented" intake manifold mean? The only thing I can think of is maybe you have a hood scoop.

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/svxfiles/34385.jpg
Whats a life?

[RoughSilver92]

What the...? Do my eyes deceive me? How is that possible? Wouldn't you be sucking in unfiltered air in those areas?

[RoughSilver92]

I like the polish job.

[svxfiles]

What the...? Do my eyes deceive me? How is that possible? Wouldn't you be sucking in unfiltered air in those areas?
Those areas are just webbing between the runners.
By cutting "chimneys" in it I allowed excess heat to escape.
Most likely it does very, very little.

[svxfiles]

I like the polish job.
That is the ceramic coating, that keeps radiant heat out.;)

[RoughSilver92]

OIC. Who did your ceramic? I am seriously thinking about sending my exhaust manifolds out, and pondering the intake(probably to Swain). From the info I have gathered, It seems the general school of thought is to put thermal block on the gasket surface of the intake (and on the bottom of the intake on v8's where engine oil is slashing around down there), and to use a heat radiating coating(Swain calls it BBE) on the top, to help disperse the heat better. On the inside, Swain offers either a "flow coating" or the thermal block. I think the flow coating would probably be better suited for a carbureted car, since they talk about how it enhances the fuel atomization.

In other words, I don't know which way to go with the intake. At the moment, I'm leaning towards thermal block on the gasket surfaces and on the inside, and probably leaving the outside uncoated, since aluminum is a fairly good conductor of heat, I don't see how it would benefit me to coat the outside with a heat radiating coating. On the other hand, aluminum is a fairly good conductor of heat, so that engine bay heat will be trying to get in.

I am sold on the White Lightening coating on the exhaust manifolds, though. And given the design of the stock units, it should be possible to have both the inside and the outside of the manifolds coated.

[svxfiles]

Thermal Tech Coatings, Inc.
312 E. Poythress Street
Hopewell, VA 23860
Phone: 877-754-9795

did my intake manifold, Johns valve covers and alternator, Sov13t's pistons, some other stuff.
They also did Bill's exhaust manifolds, and I hear that the coating has flaked off of the exhaust manifolds.
ALL OTHER PARTS THAT THEY HAVE DONE ARE FINE!
To my knownege.

As far as porting the intake, it has been tested to flow much more than any "normal" NA engine can use.
Port matching does not hurt, just dont go too far.
The Outlaw spacers are about 1/3" thick and do block heat well.

More later.

[SVXRide]

and they did my intake manifold and valve covers (SVX R&D at its best;))
-Bill



Thermal Tech Coatings, Inc.
312 E. Poythress Street
Hopewell, VA 23860
Phone: 877-754-9795

did my intake manifold, Johns valve covers and alternator, Sov13t's pistons, some other stuff.
They also did Bill's exhaust manifolds, and I hear that the coating has flaked off of the exhaust manifolds.
ALL OTHER PARTS THAT THEY HAVE DONE ARE FINE!
To my knownege.

As far as porting the intake, it has been tested to flow much more than any "normal" NA engine can use.
Port matching does not hurt, just dont go too far.
The Outlaw spacers are about 1/3" thick and do block heat well.

More later.

[RoughSilver92]

Out of curiosity, what was the deciding factor for using thermal tech? I have been trying to pick the best one, and there isn't as much info on coatings as other mods. I have gathered, though, to stay away from Jet Hot.

I am leaning towards Swain b/c I have read a couple saying that Swain is the only coating that they haven't seen flake, and Swain claims their coating is .015" compared to .002" their competitors use. Of course sometimes I fall for that propaganda a little too easily.

[RoughSilver92]

Good info on the intake, though. No need to go grinding away on something that doesn't need it. From the cutaways I have seen of other Subaru heads, it looks like they do a fairly good job on the ports, as well.

[RoughSilver92]

I hope I didn't offend anybody:confused::o

[Johnybeas]

Thermal Tech Coatings, Inc.
312 E. Poythress Street
Hopewell, VA 23860
Phone: 877-754-9795

did my intake manifold, Johns valve covers and alternator, Sov13t's pistons, some other stuff.
They also did Bill's exhaust manifolds, and I hear that the coating has flaked off of the exhaust manifolds.
ALL OTHER PARTS THAT THEY HAVE DONE ARE FINE!
To my knownege.

As far as porting the intake, it has been tested to flow much more than any "normal" NA engine can use.
Port matching does not hurt, just dont go too far.
The Outlaw spacers are about 1/3" thick and do block heat well.

More later.

A few questions,

If the intake manifold were polished prior to being coated would it still have the smooth look on top, or would it give it that speckled look, like in your picture?

How much would it be to have the manifold coated by those guys??

If it's not very useful to have the intake ported is it effective to have the exhaust headers ported if the engine is staying naturally aspirated for the time being???

And I'm still curious how much those spacers are.....

[svxfiles]

A few questions,

1)If the intake manifold were polished prior to being coated would it still have the smooth look on top, or would it give it that speckled look, like in your picture?

2)How much would it be to have the manifold coated by those guys??

3)If it's not very useful to have the intake ported is it effective to have the exhaust headers ported if the engine is staying naturally aspirated for the time being???

4)And I'm still curious how much those spacers are.....

1)If the intake manifold were polished prior to being coated I am sure it would be smoother. The speckeled look "is a trick of light and shadow."

2)As I remember it was about $100.0 plus shipping at the time.

3)You have to look at the whole picture of flow. Port matching to reduce turbulance can help flow, but having a 2"id header flowing into a 1.6"id pipe is/can be a restriction.

4)The spacers were less than $100.00.

[svxcess]

A few questions,

If the intake manifold were polished prior to being coated would it still have the smooth look on top, or would it give it that speckled look, like in your picture?
If the manifold were to be polished, the coating would definitely be smoother. Here is a quote from Airborn Coatings website:


"The Finished appearance of all processes are related to the surface preparation prior to coating. All defects in the surface will be replicated through the coatings. A smooth polished finish is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED"

As I said, I have used both Airborn Coatings (http://www.airborncoatings.com/index3.html) and Thermaltech (http://www.thermaltechcoatings.com/prod01.htm) They are both great to deal with and I have not had a single issue with the quality of their work and attention to detail.

,

.