285whp??... Haha, it's back - with 320whp!!

[GreenMarine]

Well here I am, sitting at the computer late at night because I can't sleep... I figure I'll surf NASIOC's "Prooven Power Bragging" forum since I no longer own the SVX and like the feeling of a ~450wtq STi engine...

All of the sudden I see this thread...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1652516

With THIS Video in it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqnuj58lFQI

That's right... That 3.3ltr (EG33) swapped race 2.5RS is back... This time with a fully build motor, and the results (AND VIDEO) are mind-blowing... I mean I can't imagine an SVX with this much NA power. That's almost as much that's in my current car!!

I'll tell ya what though, seeing this thread really REALLY makes me miss the SVX and all the dreams I had for it once apon a time :(... I hope I can find another SVX someday...

~ Chris

[Twinboosted]

Nice numbers!

What's up with the dyno pull though? Does the shop not know how to do a pull correctly?

[TomsSVX]

:repost:This is really old news (http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=47176)... Has that imprezza gotten into your head and slowed you down??:p

Tom

[RallyBob]

Nice numbers!

What's up with the dyno pull though? Does the shop not know how to do a pull correctly?

That video is of a top-speed run, not the actual dyno pull. With the Mustang dyno you can insert the car's drag coefficient from the database, the vehicle's weight and gearing, and then do a 'pull' with simulated drag from the dyno. 7600 rpm's in 5th gear on that run according to Jack.

[GreenMarine]

That video is of a top-speed run, not the actual dyno pull. With the Mustang dyno you can insert the car's drag coefficient from the database, the vehicle's weight and gearing, and then do a 'pull' with simulated drag from the dyno. 7600 rpm's in 5th gear on that run according to Jack.

BOB! You're "Bob the Fabricator" aren't ya?? I've gotta meet you if I come up to CT sometime!! Someday I will have another SVX and I really REALLY want to do a nice NA build on it...

~ Chris

[RallyBob]

Just an FYI. The car this engine is fitted to is being parted out, therefore the 318 whp/276 wtq EG33 (now 3.5 litres) is available as a complete engine with oil pan, headers, cold air box. (ECU is separate however)

Interested parties should contact Jack Laverty at EFI Logics.

[Huskymaniac]

Just an FYI. The car this engine is fitted to is being parted out, therefore the 318 whp/276 wtq EG33 (now 3.5 litres) is available as a complete engine with oil pan, headers, cold air box. (ECU is separate however)

Interested parties should contact Jack Laverty at EFI Logics.

Any idea what they are asking for it?

[RallyBob]

Any idea what they are asking for it?

Like I said, contact Jack for specifics. I *think* he was talking around $5k however.

There's about $10k in parts and machine work invested. That does not include the R & D me and Jack invested nor my labor to port the heads, flow the heads and design the cams, build the headers/collectors, and build the cold air box. So realistically there's $13-14k invested in it assuming my time is worth $50 per hour.

[Huskymaniac]

Like I said, contact Jack for specifics. I *think* he was talking around $5k however.

There's about $10k in parts and machine work invested. That does not include the R & D me and Jack invested nor my labor to port the heads, flow the heads and design the cams, build the headers/collectors, and build the cold air box. So realistically there's $13-14k invested in it assuming my time is worth $50 per hour.

Is this engine in Bethel? I wish I knew when I was in CT for XMAS. I would love to have seen it in person. Any idea if there was even an issue with cooling? There was a long thread here about cooling issues at high RPMs. I assume an engine like this in an SVX would require a highly customized radiator setup.

About the numbers, the stock engine produces 230HP and it sounded from the thread linked here that this engine produced somewhere above 390HP with 318HP being delivered to the wheels. Is that correct?

[Cam]

Bob, any Idea what it would cost to duplicate that oil pan? Did you guys use OEM windage baffle and sump?

[SilverSpear]

Bob, any Idea what it would cost to duplicate that oil pan? Did you guys use OEM windage baffle and sump?

+1 another interest.

[RallyBob]

Is this engine in Bethel?
No, the entire car is at Jack's house now in northeastern CT. He's sick of dumping money into it and now that he's married the wife frowns upon a $20k per year racing budget...:rolleyes: So he decided to part it out.

The cooling system was working well the last time he had the car out. 8200 rpm shift points and all. An SVX would have far more room for a bigger radiator as well as more space for proper airflow compared to an Impreza.

It made 318 hp to the wheels on a Mustang chassis dyno. Call it 415-420 hp at the crank (24% driveline loss).

I think that if someone invested in ITBs with this combo you'd see another 30-40 whp.

[RallyBob]

Bob, any Idea what it would cost to duplicate that oil pan? Did you guys use OEM windage baffle and sump?

Not much in material, but it took me about ten hours to fabricate it. I suspect if I did another one it would take a little less time because I templated everything.

However I built the oil pan on an spare block with the headers present and with the crossmember available to me (Impreza). I don't know if it would clear anyone else's exhaust system and the SVX crossmember.

I did retain the stock oil pan baffles, and the stock pickup tube.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3275/3014573702_1ff8519dbb_o.jpg

I had some issues with the original sump tube arrangement, and ideally I wanted to create a new sump location...but time/money was an issue so I compromised and kept it OEM for Jack's sake. My next EG33 oil pan will be a dry sump design however....;)

[Dessertrunner]

Is he going to sell the ECU with the engine? Also you say contact him direct how do we do that?
Tony

[RallyBob]

Is he going to sell the ECU with the engine?

Apparently not, the Motec tuner/distributor would like to buy the ECU back from him.

Also you say contact him direct how do we do that?
Tony
Jack works here (http://www.efilogics.com/contact.html).

[Dessertrunner]

I think the motor is worth less if it doesn't come with the ECU as its important to get the power from the engine.
Tony

[Huskymaniac]

I think the motor is worth less if it doesn't come with the ECU as its important to get the power from the engine.
Tony

Can LAN's ECU be used with this engine?

[Tim]

Probably something that's more tunable like the Hydra Nemesis.

[RallyBob]

I think the motor is worth less if it doesn't come with the ECU as its important to get the power from the engine.
Tony

Agreed, but the ECU adds another $4000 US on top of the engine's price. It is literally brand new, and only has dyno time on it.

[STeeL25T]

I think 5k is a steal for that engine. If i didn't already have thousands in my already build very close to completion I'd give him a call.

[redlinedeath]

I tried to sell my soul to come up with the money for this... but no buyers to be found. Ah well, someone is going to be a VERY happy svx owner im sure :)

[GreenMarine]

Oh WOW... I really wish I still had my SVX :(... I do have a 98 Legacy GT Wagon now, but it's a DD and I can't get into an engine swap with this thing just yet... But GOD I'd love to have this engine!! :(

[Freeman]

Did it ever sell?

[RallyBob]

Newsflash: Jack has decided to not only keep his H6 powered Impreza, he is going to start racing it again. Selling the Motec ECU and going with a Megasquirt to help free up some funds. Updates on Facebook (via EFI Logic).

[icingdeath88]

Newsflash: Jack has decided to not only keep his H6 powered Impreza, he is going to start racing it again. Selling the Motec ECU and going with a Megasquirt to help free up some funds. Updates on Facebook (via EFI Logic).

How much does he want for the motec ecu? Or is it already claimed?

If we had some base information for the megasquirts, that would open up a wonderful option for us. I, for one, would love to use a megasquirt, but I don't have any base maps or any thing to get started. Like setting it up to use the stock sensors mainly. So try and get him to post up that information for us. :)

[Freeman]

It figures... I finally have a decent job and enough cash for that engine, too..

[RallyBob]

How much does he want for the motec ecu? Or is it already claimed?

If we had some base information for the megasquirts, that would open up a wonderful option for us. I, for one, would love to use a megasquirt, but I don't have any base maps or any thing to get started. Like setting it up to use the stock sensors mainly. So try and get him to post up that information for us. :)

Not sure if the Motec is claimed or not.

As far as the Megasquirt, I can pass along any info on the sensors of course, but in terms of a base map: it would be useless unless you had the same cams, same compression, and the same injectors.

[Huskymaniac]

Bob,

What issues was he having that he is trying to straighten out?

[RallyBob]

Bob,

What issues was he having that he is trying to straighten out?

Do you mean why did he stop running the car? Lack of money, and he was getting married. A few years later his home life has stabilized, he is making a bit more money, and misses racing.

He switched to the Motec after running just one event on the old Autronic with the new engine. One event is a misnomer, he never even finished that event because the ECU fried.

Nearly $5000 later he had the Motec ECU and the wiring bits, but no money to run the car. So it sat. By selling the Motec he frees up a bunch of money.

[icingdeath88]

As far as the Megasquirt, I can pass along any info on the sensors of course, but in terms of a base map: it would be useless unless you had the same cams, same compression, and the same injectors.

Any kind of starting point would be great. At this point, we really have nothing. But yes, the main thing is getting the sensors calibrated correctly.

[dynomatt]

I think I can dig up a fairly stock msq file for a standard engine.

Matt

[icingdeath88]

^ That would be great, man. It doesn't have to be a perfectly stock engine, as long as the sensors and whatnot are stock.

IIRC, you had to remove one of the teeth on the crank sprocket? And then it only needs the one crank angle sensor?

[dynomatt]

Yep, send me an email

matt dot dyne at gartner dot com

[dynomatt]

And it's not actually a step I'd be taking...Megasquirts are good and cheap, but my next ECU probably won't be a Megasquirt.

I can't really ascertain why at this point BTW.

M

[RallyBob]

Back on the dyno today. New wheels, new tires, new front air dam, some new decals, and a new ECU. Wonder what it will make?

[RallyBob]

Just got off the phone with Jack.
Same HP, same torque as before. About 1/4 the time to tune it compared to the Motec.

$430 ECU + $50 harness + Ford Taurus EDIS/coilpack from Ebay compared to $5000 Motec!

[icingdeath88]

Just got off the phone with Jack.
Same HP, same torque as before. About 1/4 the time to tune it compared to the Motec.

$430 ECU + $50 harness + Ford Taurus EDIS/coilpack from Ebay compared to $5000 Motec!

Awesome, that's pretty much what I'm planning on using for mine, except with some LS2 coils probably.

[RallyBob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvhQ60oF6Kc&feature=player_embedded

[SVXRide]

Bob,

So, this is with a Megasquirt ECU? Impressive!

Bill

[RallyBob]

Bob,

So, this is with a Megasquirt ECU? Impressive!

Bill

Yes. Megasquirt V3.57, Ford Taurus (6 cyl) EDIS system.

[neverLift]

Yes. Megasquirt V3.57, Ford Taurus (6 cyl) EDIS system.

Would you be able to provide more details about the EDIS set-up? Installation/mounting/tuning/interaction with MegaSquirt etc.

cheers
-Evan

[icingdeath88]

Would you be able to provide more details about the EDIS set-up? Installation/mounting/tuning/interaction with MegaSquirt etc.

cheers
-Evan

This is how it's typically done: http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/EDIS.htm

Basically, you put a 36-1 tooth wheel on top of the crank pulley, and you make a bracket to mount a sensor to "read" the teeth of the wheel. It's a good system, but for a one-off application like an EG33, it requires the skills necessary to make and properly align a bracket to the wheel. It also has the advantage that it's not wasted-spark.

The system I will most likely use is very much like the stock ignition system, except with LS2 coils, which have a built-in ignitor thingy for each coil. So they can be wired directly to the megasquirt. But, it will have to be run as wasted-spark, since the MS will only have one of the stock crank sensors as input (the "rear" 12 tooth wheel, with one of the teeth knocked off). Our cam sensor setup is not one the MS is able to use as far as I have been able to tell, nor is our dual crank sensor setup.

[neverLift]

Great info, very interesting read, thanks!

For your plan with the LS coils, they would each be fired by the MS, i.e. each coil would have wires to/from the ECU, unlike the EDIS which just has 2 wires to the EDIS module? Obviously the MS is required, what other things must be modified?

cheers
-Evan

[bazza]

Back on the dyno today. New wheels, new tires, new front air dam, some new decals, and a new ECU. Wonder what it will make?

Jack's car and his dyno run going through all the gears is one of the reasons I went EG33 over EJ2X :) LOVE HIS CAR. Pure PRON!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqnuj58lFQI

Bob, got a question for you, what valve / bucket setup does Jack run? I cannot recall if it was you or Matt who mentioned about the conversion. I think someone also just machined the hydraulics into solids (top idea) - sorry, wish I could recall who did what.

Anyway a friend of mine measured up the MY98 valve, MY98 spring and MY98 bucket and found it to short. He then used the MY99 valve, MY98 spring and MY98 bucket and it to be better - hmmm.

[dynomatt]

I think there's a standard valve length and stem diameter in the EJ20's isn't there? They're definitely a 6mm stem, but the length was the same...Google tells me it's 104.75mm. I just used those ones.

They are short, so a shim is needed that sits on the valve...here's one of my shims. Sits on the top of the valve stem.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae266/dynefamily/IMG-20111011-00021.jpg

Matt

[bazza]

I think there's a standard valve length and stem diameter in the EJ20's isn't there? They're definitely a 6mm stem, but the length was the same...Google tells me it's 104.75mm. I just used those ones.

They are short, so a shim is needed that sits on the valve...here's one of my shims. Sits on the top of the valve stem.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae266/dynefamily/IMG-20111011-00021.jpg

Matt

Thanks for that info Matt. This certainly makes a bit more sense. The EJ20 has many different valve lengths. You may recall Subaru have used quite a few different types of bucket, some hydraulic with rockers, basic hydraulics, shim over, shim under and shimless. IIRC there are 3 different valve lengths not including SOHC stuff.

Hopefully this afternoon I will have some measurements for both the MY99 WRX valve and the MY98 WRX valve to publish.

If the length is an issue as you've indicated, I'm more inclinded to machine out my hydraulic buckets into solids to suit each position.

[dynomatt]

Having said all of that, I did have some problems with my valvetrain...I think the installed seat pressure wasn't enough on some so they let go. I also think the shim overlapped the valve stem too far on some to the point where the shim was pushing on the collets...which in turn meant the valves dropped.

I plan (when i have some money) to completely redo my heads again soon.

M

[bazza]

Having said all of that, I did have some problems with my valvetrain...I think the installed seat pressure wasn't enough on some so they let go. I also think the shim overlapped the valve stem too far on some to the point where the shim was pushing on the collets...which in turn meant the valves dropped.

I plan (when i have some money) to completely redo my heads again soon.

M

Good plan, keen to see what you come up with. Also the other thing I've been meaning to ask - with regards to the timing belt issues you had when you shaved your heads / block - did you find it lost power on the dyno etc?

[dynomatt]

I'm not convinced it lost power... but then it never really made any power. The static timing has been set reasonably well...it's not perfect, but it's not out by orders of magnitude.

I was reading a Toyota V6 article the other day and they solved the problem, by making the timing gears adjustable as well as the toothed belt pulley...so in theory, three adjustments for cam timing. In the longer term, this is what we'd need to do if you were chasing the perfect cam timing.

M

[icingdeath88]

Great info, very interesting read, thanks!

For your plan with the LS coils, they would each be fired by the MS, i.e. each coil would have wires to/from the ECU, unlike the EDIS which just has 2 wires to the EDIS module? Obviously the MS is required, what other things must be modified?

cheers
-Evan

Oops, I never noticed this question, but yes, the coils would each be fired by the MS, directly from the outputs. The LS coils are "logic level" which I don't entirely know what that means, but basically each coil also has an igniter built in, so all you have to do is tell it when to fire, and the dwell times (not 100% sure what that means either) and it will work. The tricky part of making it work is giving the megasquirt a crank sensor that it can read to get the timing down. It will not be for a long time that I'm able to do it, but I'll be sure to document the process as much as possible.

[dynomatt]

I've got that timing and crank sensor info for a MS if you want (although I think I sent you a scan??).

Dwell is the charging time...charge too much and the coil overheats and fries, but the spark is big (bigger spark=better bang), charge it too little and the spark isn't enough to get the engine working.

The SVX coils are dumb coils...the later WRX/STI onwards have built in ignitors. The STI coils are a viable COP option, whereas LS1 or Bosch (as I'm going) will require a lead.

[bazza]

I've got that timing and crank sensor info for a MS if you want (although I think I sent you a scan??).

Dwell is the charging time...charge too much and the coil overheats and fries, but the spark is big (bigger spark=better bang), charge it too little and the spark isn't enough to get the engine working.

The SVX coils are dumb coils...the later WRX/STI onwards have built in ignitors. The STI coils are a viable COP option, whereas LS1 or Bosch (as I'm going) will require a lead.

I'd go the GDB STI (or EZ30) units for sure, can jump 5+ times further than stock SVX coils. What you can do is set them up for a lead like I've done with mine or you can drill out one side and mount them to the head. You can pick up a set for around $150 from Import Monster... and buy 2 extras individually.

Bosch ones tend to fail for to easily, had 3 fail over the years - one exploded.

[dynomatt]

Bazza, for sure. Although, check the boot length. I have the EZ30 ones and the boot is too short. I believe one of the STI boots would be a better fit.

M

[bazza]

Bazza, for sure. Although, check the boot length. I have the EZ30 ones and the boot is too short. I believe one of the STI boots would be a better fit.

M

Definetely - I can look up the part number for the boot if you like? The EZ30 coil will prolly be cheaper as most pay more as soon as anything says STI :P So could work out cheaper with EZ30 coils and STI boots :)

[dynomatt]

If you could that would be great thanks. I remember coming across a site that referenced the boot lengths...but I've gone and forgotten/lost the link.

Then I can unload my bosch ones and try again.

Thanks,
Matt

[dynomatt]

Actually, if you have a source of the loom plugs that suit those coils too, that'd be helpful...the 3 wire plugs.

M

[bazza]

Actually, if you have a source of the loom plugs that suit those coils too, that'd be helpful...the 3 wire plugs.

M

Try Rising Sun Subaru in QLD or Ichiban Imports in NSW. Import Monster (website) will prolly be the best spot if you want the entire engine loom to cut up. Search for BH5 / BH6 / EJ208 / EJ206 / etc as the Legacy's also came with those plugs and coils.

I'll see if I can find those part numbers for you.

[bazza]

Sorry, cannot find the actual boot but this might be handy:

Coil parts:
http://opposedforces.com/parts/impreza/en_g11/type_24/engine_electronic/spark_plug_and_high_tension_cord/illustration_1/

Coil part number (entire coil):

http://www.partswebsite.com/subarupartswebsite/index.php?i=2&type=parts&partnum=accept

[dynomatt]

I knew i'd find it...45minutes of my life i'm never getting back

http://www.rslibertyclub.org/forums/showthread.php?58860-Alternative-Coils-V7-(MY01-)-Ignition-Coils&p=1069271&viewfull=1#post1069271

[dynomatt]

Actually, I think this post is more relevant.

http://www.rslibertyclub.org/forums/showthread.php?58860-Alternative-Coils-V7-(MY01-)-Ignition-Coils&p=1069667&viewfull=1#post1069667

I think we need the longest one, but my memory of when i had them side by side is hazy.

M

[bazza]

Actually, I think this post is more relevant.

http://www.rslibertyclub.org/forums/showthread.php?58860-Alternative-Coils-V7-(MY01-)-Ignition-Coils&p=1069667&viewfull=1#post1069667

I think we need the longest one, but my memory of when i had them side by side is hazy.

M

There is another option. Remote mount them. This reduces the time taken to swap out the plugs and makes it rather easy. 6 x $5 leads from Supercheap... done. I just cable tie the leads so they don't move - works rather nicely.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii209/bazzasti/IMG_1455.jpg

[Dessertrunner]

Matt can I ask a favour can you work with Bazza and others to agree on the way to do the coils. So what we need is:-

Subaru or other Part numbers,
A wiring diagram showing how we bypass the existing SVX system.

When thats done we can move the info into a final docuement to add to the rest of the learnings we are getting together.

Is that okay?
Tony

[bazza]

Matt can I ask a favour can you work with Bazza and others to agree on the way to do the coils. So what we need is:-

Subaru or other Part numbers,
A wiring diagram showing how we bypass the existing SVX system.

When thats done we can move the info into a final docuement to add to the rest of the learnings we are getting together.

Is that okay?
Tony

I think there are multiple ways to skin this cat. Mine is handy because it's easy to get the plugs out.

Having the coil/ignitor on the plug means no issues with missing due to leads.

As for wiring - it would be simply a case of removing the ignitor and simply jumping the connections. I think it's labelled from memory - join 1 to 1, 2 to 2 etc and double check at coil end with elec meter. The coil simply has +12V, ground and signal.

It's very easy :)

[bazza]

Yes. Megasquirt V3.57, Ford Taurus (6 cyl) EDIS system.

Did this make 320 whp?

[Nomake Wan]

Did this make 320 whp?
Same HP, same torque as before. About 1/4 the time to tune it compared to the Motec.
So yes, same 320 HP as the Motec setup. :)