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Bobb
12-12-2008, 10:44 PM
Ya, I'm on the mailing list.
________________________________________________
Senate to Middle Class: Drop Dead

Friday, December 12th, 2008

Friends,

They could have given the loan on the condition that the automakers start building only cars and mass transit that reduce our dependency on oil.

They could have given the loan on the condition that the automakers build cars that reduce global warming.

They could have given the loan on the condition that the automakers withdraw their many lawsuits against state governments in their attempts to not comply with our environmental laws.

They could have given the loan on the condition that the management team which drove these once-great manufacturers into the ground resign and be replaced with a team who understands the transportation needs of the 21st century.

Yes, they could have given the loan for any of these reasons because, in the end, to lose our manufacturing infrastructure and throw 3 million people out of work would be a catastrophe.

But instead, the Senate said, we'll give you the loan only if the factory workers take a $20 an hour cut in wages, pension and health care. That's right. After giving BILLIONS to Wall Street hucksters and criminal investment bankers -- billions with no strings attached and, as we have since learned, no oversight whatsoever -- the Senate decided it is more important to break a union, more important to throw middle class wage earners into the ranks of the working poor than to prevent the total collapse of industrial America.

We have a little more than a month to go of this madness. As I sit here in Michigan today, tens of thousands of hard working, honest, decent Americans do not believe they can make it to January 20th. The malaise here is astounding. Why must they suffer because of the mistakes of every CEO from Roger Smith to Rick Wagoner? Make management and the boards of directors and the shareholders pay for this.

Of course that is heresy to the 31 Republicans who decided to blame the poor, miserable autoworkers for this mess. And our wonderful media complied with their spin on the morning news shows: "UAW Refuses to Give Concessions Killing Auto Bailout Bill." In fact the UAW has given concession after concession, reduced their benefits, agreed to get rid of the Jobs Bank and agreed to make it harder for their retirees to live from week to week. Yes! That's what we need to do! It's the Jobs Bank and the old people who have led the nation to economic ruin!

But even doing all that wasn't enough to satisfy the bastard Republicans. These Senate vampires wanted blood. Blue collar blood. You see, they weren't opposed to the bailout because they believed in the free market or capitalism. No, they were opposed to the bailout because they're opposed to workers making a decent wage. In their rage, they were driven to destroy the backbone of this country, not because the UAW hadn't given back enough, but because the UAW hadn't given up.

It appears that the sitting President has been looking for a way to end his reign by one magnanimous act, just like a warlord on his feast day. He will put his finger in the dyke, and the fragile mess of an auto industry will eke through the next few months.

That will give the Senate enough time to demand that the bankers and investment sharks who've already swiped nearly half of the $700 billion gift a chance to make the offer of cutting their pay.

Fat chance.

Yours,
Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
MichaelMoore.com

Take care, BOBB

NikFu S.
12-12-2008, 10:50 PM
So am I.

So basically unless the 3 get their act together it will be back to death row, waiting for that pardon by this time next year.

Bobb
12-12-2008, 11:08 PM
Hi Nik, If something doesn't happen soon it will not be a pretty sight. The sticking point for the UAW was some Senators wanted the workers to take an instant pay cut to $14.00 an hour. From my view point I don't see how that would work. If the Congress wants to take a 50% pay cut then it might be OK. I didn't hear any of those guys voluntering to take the cut. The UAW did say they would consider reducing wages when the contract comes up for talks in 2011 but the Senate Republicans would not go for it so the deal went down for the count. However the 700 billion deal with wall street went down on the first vote so maybe all is not dead. We'll find out next week. Take care, BOBB

demonsvx
12-12-2008, 11:35 PM
Why dont we ask ourselves how all this crap got started in the first place? Back in the mid 90s most of the banks deregulated rules for getting a loan-translation people who were not qualified to repay loans-who deregulated the rules, the democrats. Next we had a president asleep at the wheel for the past 8 yrs, from 9-11 till now, doing what most politicians do best, get rich as f**k off the American people. How does this happen you ask? Corporations, CEOs, inside traders, etc make it happen because the greed got out of hand and now we are the pawns in the mess. Bail them out but fire the dumba$$es running the show which includes most unions, CEOs,politicians and such. But if America goes under trust me I will sit on my front porch waiting for the bank to foreclose my house.....with my AK47...saying you can have it after YOU WORK FOR IT. Greedy Bastards :barf:

Bobb
12-12-2008, 11:49 PM
Hi everyone, Yes I think I'm safe when I say that you can blame just about every one in government in DC. Thats what got us into this mess. What we do to get out of this mess will be the interesting part. Stay tuned for the srory. It starts on January 20th 2009. Take care, BOBB

svxxx26
12-13-2008, 08:12 AM
Wow - excellent writing by Michael Moore. Watching the news channels last night it was with a feeling of resignation. We are hoping Congress solves the mess? It's that hopeless?

lhopp77
12-13-2008, 03:26 PM
But instead, the Senate said, we'll give you the loan only if the factory workers take a $20 an hour cut in wages, pension and health care. That's right. After giving BILLIONS to Wall Street hucksters and criminal investment bankers -- billions with no strings attached and, as we have since learned, no oversight whatsoever -- the Senate decided it is more important to break a union, more important to throw middle class wage earners into the ranks of the working poor than to prevent the total collapse of industrial America.


Of course that is heresy to the 31 Republicans who decided to blame the poor, miserable autoworkers for this mess. And our wonderful media complied with their spin on the morning news shows: "UAW Refuses to Give Concessions Killing Auto Bailout Bill." In fact the UAW has given concession after concession, reduced their benefits, agreed to get rid of the Jobs Bank and agreed to make it harder for their retirees to live from week to week. Yes! That's what we need to do! It's the Jobs Bank and the old people who have led the nation to economic ruin!

But even doing all that wasn't enough to satisfy the bastard Republicans. These Senate vampires wanted blood. Blue collar blood. You see, they weren't opposed to the bailout because they believed in the free market or capitalism. No, they were opposed to the bailout because they're opposed to workers making a decent wage. In their rage, they were driven to destroy the backbone of this country, not because the UAW hadn't given back enough, but because the UAW hadn't given up.



That will give the Senate enough time to demand that the bankers and investment sharks who've already swiped nearly half of the $700 billion gift a chance to make the offer of cutting their pay.



First of all, $75 per hour in total compensation is NOT a "decent" wage, it is actually a VERY INDECENT wage particularly considering the VERY unskilled level of work.

The republicans AND democrats that voted AGAINST the bill were asking the UAW to give a time that they would accept a DECENT wage comparable to other auto workers that do the same unskilled labor.

And just for the record---there ARE strings attached to the financial bailouts.

You say the Senate wanted "blue collar" blood while in fact it is the blue collar workers throughout the nation that pay the biggest share of the union ripoff wages for unskilled labor.

A skilled mechanic makes far less per hour than these unskilled workers.

Lee

NikFu S.
12-13-2008, 03:38 PM
First of all, $75 per hour in total compensation is NOT a "decent" wage, it is actually a VERY INDECENT wage particularly considering the VERY unskilled level of work.
This figure has been thoroughly debunked.
They make closer to $30/h, which I guess is still damn good. The $70+ figure comes from including benefits and iirc, pensions and retirements including executives.

Not only that, but in specific, GM's losses far outstrip their worker's wage (non-union members make closer to $14/h) and the fact remains they failed so hard because they are stubborn nincomepoops. Show me an American car that is ahead of the curve and I'll show you a Japanese car with an American badge.

--
Just so I'm clear, factory workers wage has NOTHING to do with the Big 3's downfall.

lhopp77
12-13-2008, 06:31 PM
This figure has been thoroughly debunked.
They make closer to $30/h, which I guess is still damn good. The $70+ figure comes from including benefits and iirc, pensions and retirements including executives.



The figure is ONLY for the UAW worker and is TOTAL compensation which does include figures for benefits, etc.

AND AGAIN--they are NOT skilled workers.

Lee

demonsvx
12-13-2008, 09:04 PM
Well I work for a non-union company and hope it stays that way. Seems like everytime one of these unions goes on strike its over not making enough money, insurance,etc. I make 18.75 hr (salary equivalent) and most of my employees make in the 12-15 hr range based on median local wages. 70% of our insurance is paid for by the company, 401k is paid 200% on the 1st 2% you contribute and 100% up to 7% by the company. We havent seen a layoff in 12 yrs and are the #1 contributor to the local charity (70K employee with 70k company match for 500 employees) and these stupid unions are trying to get us to join....Ill take my chances with my company. They will negate who gets what out of this bailout and waste their time....EPIC FAIL in my opinion:lol:

dcarrb
12-15-2008, 10:57 AM
I've always thought union auto workers get a pretty sweet deal, pay-wise, but it's downright infuriating to ponder a gaggle of multi-millionaires who've never had to break a sweat for a buck and under whose "leadership" these companies are now teetering on the brink of ruin whining about how they're having to pay too much for the help. Pathetic.

And I'm not sure what the perceived level of "skill" has to do with any of this. If you want to talk about the real value of a profession, why do we pay dumb athletes and dumber executives millions but not firemen, cops, teachers, home health workers?

dcb

demonsvx
12-15-2008, 05:17 PM
I've always thought union auto workers get a pretty sweet deal, pay-wise, but it's downright infuriating to ponder a gaggle of multi-millionaires who've never had to break a sweat for a buck and under whose "leadership" these companies are now teetering on the brink of ruin whining about how they're having to pay too much for the help. Pathetic.

And I'm not sure what the perceived level of "skill" has to do with any of this. If you want to talk about the real value of a profession, why do we pay dumb athletes and dumber executives millions but not firemen, cops, teachers, home health workers?

dcb


Hmmmm such as these non-producing big mouths
http://proathletesonly.com/news/wp-content/uploads/plaxicoburress.jpg
and
http://www.aolcdn.com/channels/03/02/452a9f02-003e5-074a5-400cb8e1
http://thenastyboys.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/chad-johnson-trade-me.jpg
IMAGINE THE WHINING IF THEY MADE 40K A YEAR

NikFu S.
12-15-2008, 08:38 PM
Firemen, cops, teachers, home health workers (I'm not even sure what those are) aren't as popular as football. :(
People will willingly pay hundreds year after year to watch knuckleheads bash into each other as they run back and forth. Stupidity is profitable, which is why American car companies are failing. The people are wising up to their act.