Changing the ECU to a MegaSquirt II

[Dessertrunner]

I have been looking at the possibility of setting up a SVX running a MegaSquirt II ECU. I have spoken to Matt runs one in the rally car and Harvey also knows someone using one. Given the problem of making changes to the maps on our current ECU I figure the best thing is to give this a try. Why a MegaSquirt II well they are very well priced for what you get.
I have attached a link to the unit I am thinking about.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirtii-ems-system-smd-pcb357-assembled-unit-p-165.html

Tony

[oldss72]

I have a friend who is putting a turbo on his celica. There is alot of information out there about these units, and I have yet to hear anything terrible. He is going to be using the Megasquirt in a few weeks, and I am supposed to help him with the tuning. We are going to run it on the new ECU without the turbo for a few weeks to make sure everything is working smoothly, and then add the turbo and re-tune everything. These can also be built at home for a lot less as well. I have some turbos laying around, and I plan on eventually turbocharging my svx once I can afford to have pistons and cams made up, and depending on the success of my friends Celica, I was going to use the Megasquirt.

[TomsSVX]

as far as I have come to understand the megasquirt is similar to the TechII in that it is only a piggyback to the stock ECU?? In which it has mediocre controls of timing and fuel maps yet lacks the function to change other parameters... Please correct if I am wrong here?

Tom

[RallyBob]

The Megasquirt is a full standalone ECU. It's not without it's potential issues, but it's by far the cheapest fully programmable option out there. Pretty easy to tune as well, and if you use the 'Autotune' software you can get 90-95% of the way there in 15 minutes of driving.

It is NOT in any way in the same league as Motec or Autronic, etc. But it's a viable alternative for a low buck build.

[TomsSVX]

Gotcha. thanks for the clarification.

Tom

[Dessertrunner]

From what Matt told me there are a lot of Rally cars here in Oz using them. As regards it not being as good as Motec etc thats true and I think its because it doesn't do things like sequential injecting. Harvey made a point and said that this is not such a big deal because you are gettiing up near 100% duty on the injectors which means any sequential advantage would be lost anyway.
What I do think counts is that we can program it ourselfs which means any changes that are made to the engines can be fully taken advantage of. In short it would have to be better then the existing unit.
Tony

[TomsSVX]

From what Matt told me there are a lot of Rally cars here in Oz using them. As regards it not being as good as Motec etc thats true and I think its because it doesn't do things like sequential injecting. Harvey made a point and said that this is not such a big deal because you are gettiing up near 100% duty on the injectors which means any sequential advantage would be lost anyway.
What I do think counts is that we can program it ourselfs which means any changes that are made to the engines can be fully taken advantage of. In short it would have to be better then the existing unit.
Tony

Let us know how it goes Tony.:)

Tom

[Tim]

I'm assuming this is for the race engine you ordered. Did it come with stage 2 hardware also, or is it factory engine programming?

[Dessertrunner]

I was going to order the race engine with stage 2 and also get it reprogramed by putting it on an engine dyno in the USA by Mike. After a bit of thought I figure I need to go a different way.
The main purpose is the race car but in saying that I want to do a lot of the development on my daily drive. Even to the extent of puttiing race engine in that car to sort out ECU.
Reaons for the change:-
- Want to be able to be able to change air cleaner and intake hose and put air cleaner at the intake manifold with air scoop on bonnet ( no MAF sensor).
- If it works out change the daily drive to MegaSquirt so I can use a wide band O2 sensor to see what improvment can be made to fuel econamy.
- When I do fit the SC to one of my engines we able to change tables with out major problems.

Plane and simply I can't see the same power form the standard ECU that I will get from installing a MegaSquirt.
Tony

[TomsSVX]

I was going to order the race engine with stage 2 and also get it reprogramed by putting it on an engine dyno in the USA by Mike. After a bit of thought I figure I need to go a different way.
The main purpose is the race car but in saying that I want to do a lot of the development on my daily drive. Even to the extent of puttiing race engine in that car to sort out ECU.
Reaons for the change:-
- Want to be able to be able to change air cleaner and intake hose and put air cleaner at the intake manifold with air scoop on bonnet ( no MAF sensor).
- If it works out change the daily drive to MegaSquirt so I can use a wide band O2 sensor to see what improvment can be made to fuel econamy.
- When I do fit the SC to one of my engines we able to change tables with out major problems.

Plane and simply I can't see the same power form the standard ECU that I will get from installing a MegaSquirt.
Tony


fully understood and I agree wholeheartedly. I am looking into a unit that is a little more advanced and more precise though.

Tom

[Dessertrunner]

Which unit Tom? does anyone know anything about the "eMS-Pro" units? They seem to have knock Maping.
Tony

[Evil One]

I am putting the Spectre eMS-Pro in my turbocharged and nitrous injected pinto, I will be sure and check in as I progress.
Nice choice on the MS, lots of support for it and a great value.


Jim

[Dessertrunner]

Jim did you pick the eMS-Pro only for its ability on NOS or what

[Bansheeboy11]

Im going to be running the MS2 in my H6 impreza, when the friggin motor gets done, anyone in the cleveland area wanna gimme a running motor? I dont have the time or money to rebuild this one... But im messing around with the MS and its real easy to use, the manuals and stuff online make it look complicated... But if you guys have any info on how to wire it to the engine harness please let me know cause thats what im trying to get done...

[Bansheeboy11]

Im trying to input the stock settings on the MS2, i need to know all the injector pulsewidths, injections per cycle, all that... Would this stuff be in the FSM? i dont have one but any info on this would be helpful as this is the only svx board thats remotely active, lol. I hope to have the car running by next week.

[Dessertrunner]

Have a look at the thread on EM

[Boxersix]

I have replied to both of your PM's guys regarding this topic.

[cozykat]

Has there been any progess with the Megasquirt?

I have several local subie friends telling me that it is the best way for me to go and I was curious if anyone has tried it yet.

[TomsSVX]

As far as I know, the MS is simple enough to setup but the biggest issue is the with tone wheel for the crank/cam sensors. Did the MS create an adjustable trigger type yet??

Tom

[dynomatt]

I setup the MSII on the SVX by simply remving one of the teeth on the crank sensor. Then setting it up as a 12-1 sensor (I think).

It's not perfect, and an additional sensor would be helpful, but I think it struggles with the SVX cam position sensor.

The only tradeoff is that starting it takes a few more revolutions than you want as it needs to go around twice before it learns where it is.

Matt

[TomsSVX]

I setup the MSII on the SVX by simply remving one of the teeth on the crank sensor. Then setting it up as a 12-1 sensor (I think).

It's not perfect, and an additional sensor would be helpful, but I think it struggles with the SVX cam position sensor.

The only tradeoff is that starting it takes a few more revolutions than you want as it needs to go around twice before it learns where it is.

Matt

cut one tooth off?? It has a 12 tooth wheel to begin with. I was asking if the MS had the abilitiy to adjust the tone wheel input in the trigger.

The starting is the same with the Hydra as well... Takes ever so slightly longer to fire.

Were you able to use the SVX ignition coils and ignitor?

Tom

[subbieatnz]

has any one thought of using an Link G3 or G4 or something?

[dynomatt]

Hi Tom,

Yes, I cut one tooth off...the MS uses this point as a refererence then. You simply tell it that the gap is a tooth...if you know what I mean. It operates as if there's 12, but when the gap goes past, it substitutes the gap for a tooth and uses the gap as well.

We initially got it going using the standard SVX ignitor and coils, but then had some dramas, so built the MS with some coil drivers on board. We still use the standard SVX coils.

Ultimately, due to their cost, we were going to go to a cheap Bosch 6 post coil and leads...but never got there. Maybe this year.

Matt

[dynomatt]

Oh and SubieatNZ...I used Link a while ago. Back when they had hand controllers, and I wasn't impressed. I'm sure they've moved their products on from then, and I don't like people who say "back in 65 I tried one of their products...they can't have changed".

However, in the age of MS, and open source, it's hard to think you pay for this? There's guys out there working on the code for MS who have real world experience.

Matt

[TomsSVX]

Understood, I had assumed that the unit would use the cam signal as a reference point.

Any ideas on where to stock coil's dwell becomes an issue? I have been meaning to mess with it a little but wonder if you have a better idea.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Yes, I cut one tooth off...the MS uses this point as a refererence then. You simply tell it that the gap is a tooth...if you know what I mean. It operates as if there's 12, but when the gap goes past, it substitutes the gap for a tooth and uses the gap as well.

We initially got it going using the standard SVX ignitor and coils, but then had some dramas, so built the MS with some coil drivers on board. We still use the standard SVX coils.

Ultimately, due to their cost, we were going to go to a cheap Bosch 6 post coil and leads...but never got there. Maybe this year.

Matt

[dynomatt]

I'll check....

[dynomatt]

Does 2.3ms at 12v make sense?

[TomsSVX]

Yes, sounds about right, but I have been pondering what kind of dwell we can get out of the stock coils before they go bang... I have been running abot 2.0ms for the most part w/o adding up all the trims.

Tom

[dynomatt]

Sorry, I'll confess I've got a mate who plays with it...I just drive!!

:D

Matt

[TomsSVX]

Sorry, I'll confess I've got a mate who plays with it...I just drive!!

:D

Matt

No problem, its good to compare notes, thats all:)

Tom

[dynomatt]

Additional comments back from Marc.

1) Dwell, as you know, is time to charge.

2) Overcharging results in blown coils

3) Undercharging results in weak spark

[TomsSVX]

Thats my point, I was wondering if you may have known the threshold for the stock coils.

To

[cozykat]

concerning the MSII and crank sensor, why did a tooth have to be cut? I was reading on AEM EMS and wondered if their solution of an external trigger wheel might help:
http://myspecv.com/f/t166644-aem-universal-ems.html

[Seraphinwolf]

Has there been any progress figuring this out? Banshee's gonna sell me his that he never even touched after getting and is going with a turbo 2.5 now! LOL Just want to see where anyone else has gotten anywhere figuring a straight setup or not having problems witht he whole possitioning sensors and such.

[TomsSVX]

I can help set it up for you if you ever go down that road. The MS is supposed to have come a long way and I may be interested in dabbling with it. Just going to need the connectors to make up a jumper harness

Tom

[Seraphinwolf]

I can help set it up for you if you ever go down that road. The MS is supposed to have come a long way and I may be interested in dabbling with it. Just going to need the connectors to make up a jumper harness

Tom

Yeah I could shoot it down to you as soon as I get it in my hands. I'd love to get the Hydra but with my Impreza still not moving I can't let meself dump that much on the SVX at a time yet.

[STeeL25T]

Has anyone heard of the DIYPNP? I'm trying to read over what all it can do now, but theyre saying this one (http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/diypnp-nippon-denso-76pin-unassembled-kit-p-384.html) is a direct plug in replacement to the stock SVX ECU, and its only 400 bucks.

Here's info about it http://www.diyautotune.com/diypnp/index.html

[TomsSVX]

yes it should work, it has the right connectors... Making the harness is not easy but doable

Tom

[STeeL25T]

What needs to be done?

[TomsSVX]

you will need to wire it. Match the inputs to the MS w/ the outputs from the car harness.

Tom

[STeeL25T]

That sounds reasonable, does this cut the wheel missing a tooth thingy out of the equation that was holding this back before or is that still needed?

[TomsSVX]

I do not know for sure. I would need to read some about the system to see if they have made it possible for the secondary input for a marker trigger.

Tom

[Seraphinwolf]

I do not know for sure. I would need to read some about the system to see if they have made it possible for the secondary input for a marker trigger.

Tom

You still interested in my shooting mine down to pay you to do up the harness and then get to play around with it and get a feel for it?

[Boxersix]

You should run a 60-2 trigger wheel for the crank signal for the MS.

I had the MS running on the EG33 in the 962 chassis before I pulled the plug on that drivetrain option and stuck the motor in my WRX. I sold the MS setup I had in between the downtime to a guy building an aircraft, but somewhere I still have all the files for the programming I had done. Would have to do some digging to find them though.

The PNP solution would work but as Tom says you would have to correlate the MS inputs to the stock wiring harness. Not hard, especially if you just build a conversion link harness. Pending the condition of the engine harness on your car it bay be better to just build your own complete harness(use a dummy SVX harness for clips and plugs). Personal choice really. I had made an entire harness for the car but that was an easier option at the time.

And I prefer the MS surface mount stuff. Buy V3.57 with 64 bit. Really good stuff. Some guys have just recently released dual VR control for it so it can now be adapted to previously unavailable motors like quad rotor wankels(R26b) with alot of spark going on.

[TomsSVX]

You still interested in my shooting mine down to pay you to do up the harness and then get to play around with it and get a feel for it?

Sure I will mess around with it but make no promises on making it work 100% I am more or less just interested

Tom

[STeeL25T]

That's where I'm confused, if you have to modify or make an entire new engine harness then I don't see the benefit of a plug and play box, nothing plug and play about that. I'm interesting in seeing someone getting this working cause I have a MS guru less than 30 mins from me, Boxersix if you find your old stuff on it please let me know. Otherwise (or in addition to) I'll be glad to pledge some R&D money to Tom.

[Seraphinwolf]

That's where I'm confused, if you have to modify or make an entire new engine harness then I don't see the benefit of a plug and play box, nothing plug and play about that. I'm interesting in seeing someone getting this working cause I have a MS guru less than 30 mins from me, Boxersix if you find your old stuff on it please let me know. Otherwise (or in addition to) I'll be glad to pledge some R&D money to Tom.

No no no. It's the harness between the actual chasis harness and the ecu casing. Old cerca late 90's standalones had to be wired dirrectly through replacing all the OEM wiring. This is a plug and play the second the harness(which is more understood to you as an adapter harness) is wired up it's good to go between whatever OBD1 SVX you want with an unmodified chassis harness.

[Seraphinwolf]

Sure I will mess around with it but make no promises on making it work 100% I am more or less just interested

Tom

Sweet. I"ll let you know when i get my hands on it.

[dynomatt]

You should run a 60-2 trigger wheel for the crank signal for the MS.

How did you get this to work? My crank trigger only had 12 teeth? Do you have a different one or did you make your own?

[Seraphinwolf]

Anyone else that would like to chime in on or about this thread over on RS25.com? http://www.rs25.com/forums/f72/t125775-svx-engine-management-resource.html#post1952813 Just trying to compile more ECU info and such over there. Maybe some of you eggheads(in the most endearing way of course) can help sort anything out or help out filling in the blanks? I'm interested in hearing more from one guy in there who's doing the "Porscharu" EG33 build as we've seen a ton of times but he's running the MS2 and is gonna put up more info he has from getting the triggers figured out. Just hoping this helps spur things along either on his end or our end and I can be running standalone that much sooner. I just picked up my MS2 last night so I'm getting excited. :rolleyes: