McCain picks Alaska's Govenor for VP

[dromano]

OK all, what do you think of this pick? I think she is a great choice! Even if the Hillary rebels don't like her she solidifies the conservative base. Independents & conservative dems should like her over NObama. Still think NObama is an empty suit, a Chicago political machine cronie, with no experience, just a silver tongue.

Who?, me biased?

[lhopp77]

OK all, what do you think of this pick? I think she is a great choice! Even if the Hillary rebels don't like her she solidifies the conservative base. Independents & conservative dems should like her over NObama. Still think NObama is an empty suit, a Chicago political machine cronie, with no experience, just a silver tongue.

Who?, me biased?

Think she might also attract some blue collar males as her husband is a common union worker. Her experience is not great but its better than Hussein Obama. Time will actually tell when we see how she relates to her audiences.

You are right about Obama--he is a very good speaker but doesn't really say anything (reminds me of the black preachers actually). We have seen how he comes across when he has to fly by the seat of his pants to answer tough questions without a prompter---not very good.

Lee

[NikFu S.]

I just stood with a wide open gape upon hearing the coverage on CNN this morning. A comment from a Hillaryite, something about cracking the glass ceiling and Palin being a nobody from nowhere, really irritated me.

On the one hand, I don't like McCain. On the other hand I very much like Palin, and not just because she's a milf. I have no opinion of Obama or Biden so now I am stuck between a hunk of sharp cheddar and a gooey place.

[Turbone]

Whoa! Talk about a kick in the nuts (for the Dems)
I love it! :banana:
I heard some stories about Palin after she was elected Gov and how she was shaking up the whole works.
This is just what the Ticket needs.
A mover and a shaker (no milf pun intended).

And did anyone know that the set designer for the Democrat Convention was the same designer for Brittney Spears?
I wonder who will be doing the Republican set?
I say get Gene Simmons:D

[lhopp77]

I had to chuckle today when the Dems attack her experience. She obviously has as much experience as Hussein Obama and in a far more responsible position AND she is ONLY running for VP. :eek: :rolleyes:

And you are right they sure can't say she is more of the same and just another politician---she attacked her own party's corruption seems to really be cleaning house.

A bit refreshing, don't you think???????????????

Lee

[Wikedjuggalo]

Obama. First off I don't like this spoon feeding everyone that is going to just make everything right. I hate it, I can't stand it. He sits and talks about all these reforms that he wants to do but I can bet you everything I own even a 1/3 of it wont get even close to be done. He is just telling everyone what they wanna hear and they hear and think O he's going to be great!

I just got done arguing with my family about this, they (all of them) want Obama but I don't. He tells us that He wants health care reform, wants to stop depending on foreign oil, wants to get started on alternative methods. But all I can think is, you feeding in to what you want most but can't stop to realize that it wont happen. In order to stop depending on forgien oil it will take many years to accomplish this. You think Oil companies which back car makers want them to make alternative cars? Hell no. My family contiuned to argue "what is McCain going to do?" but its not what he said he is going to do but rather he hasnt lied and promised us.

He offers a real solution to higher gas prices which does include off shore drilling. How else are we going to stop depending on foreign oil then to supply our own. Now that is not to say that we need to keep using all fossil fuels but damn it we can't just switch over night.

Another thing is the reason people buy into Obama as much is because the economy is in a slump. Look back and you'll see we go to war and the economy suffers. We finish said war and the economy enjoys a nice time of growth and prosperity. I 100% back OUR TROOPS. People seem to confuse backing our troops and saying that everything done over there is right. Its not we have gotten ourselves stuck there policing a country. but we can't very well just get up and leave now can we? We took their leader out of power and opened up Freedom to them. We now have to set forth a working democracy before we can let them on their own.

Gas Prices... Sure we pay 3.50 or even 4 dollars a gallon but look over in Europe and see how much they pay a gallon compared to us. We can't ***** and moan that much about it. Sure their currancy is worth about 1.46 to one dollar but that is a bunch of countries togehter and seeing as we are just one we fair pretty good against it. Damn it we can't to stop paying so much for gas then the retards that buy a Big gas guzzling V8 that is only to ever carry one person would rather buy a smaller vehicle the demand will then decrease and we won't have to pay as much. People also fail to realize we have had electric cars since back in the 20's but they arnt as being made for the simple fact that the battery technology hasnt gone as far as Car technology. We must first catch up in order to be able to drive a decent distance. A recent electric car can go what 80 or 90 miles on a charge? But a car can go what 200 or 300? The recharging thing take much longer then then pumping gas. The technology is many years away and we are to be at least 10 years from seeing the first commercially available to drive everywhere electric cars.


Anyways I'm done ranting I have work in the morning but I'll say this. Just because McCain doenst come out and aww everyone with this great fixes
doesnt mean he doesn't have a plan for stuff. Read up on him before you go tossing Obama on your voting card.
http://www.johnmccain.com
(http://www.johnmccain.com)

[newsvx]

Whoa! Talk about a kick in the nuts (for the Dems)
I love it! :banana:
I heard some stories about Palin after she was elected Gov and how she was shaking up the whole works.
This is just what the Ticket needs.
A mover and a shaker (no milf pun intended).

And did anyone know that the set designer for the Democrat Convention was the same designer for Brittney Spears?
I wonder who will be doing the Republican set?
I say get Gene Simmons:D

And did you know that Reagan had a "similar" set behind him??????

[newsvx]

Obama. First off I don't like this spoon feeding everyone that is going to just make everything right. I hate it, I can't stand it. He sits and talks about all these reforms that he wants to do but I can bet you everything I own even a 1/3 of it wont get even close to be done. He is just telling everyone what they wanna hear and they hear and think O he's going to be great!

I just got done arguing with my family about this, they (all of them) want Obama but I don't. He tells us that He wants health care reform, wants to stop depending on foreign oil, wants to get started on alternative methods. But all I can think is, you feeding in to what you want most but can't stop to realize that it wont happen. In order to stop depending on forgien oil it will take many years to accomplish this. You think Oil companies which back car makers want them to make alternative cars? Hell no. My family contiuned to argue "what is McCain going to do?" but its not what he said he is going to do but rather he hasnt lied and promised us.

He offers a real solution to higher gas prices which does include off shore drilling. How else are we going to stop depending on foreign oil then to supply our own. Now that is not to say that we need to keep using all fossil fuels but damn it we can't just switch over night.

Another thing is the reason people buy into Obama as much is because the economy is in a slump. Look back and you'll see we go to war and the economy suffers. We finish said war and the economy enjoys a nice time of growth and prosperity. I 100% back OUR TROOPS. People seem to confuse backing our troops and saying that everything done over there is right. Its not we have gotten ourselves stuck there policing a country. but we can't very well just get up and leave now can we? We took their leader out of power and opened up Freedom to them. We now have to set forth a working democracy before we can let them on their own.

Gas Prices... Sure we pay 3.50 or even 4 dollars a gallon but look over in Europe and see how much they pay a gallon compared to us. We can't ***** and moan that much about it. Sure their currancy is worth about 1.46 to one dollar but that is a bunch of countries togehter and seeing as we are just one we fair pretty good against it. Damn it we can't to stop paying so much for gas then the retards that buy a Big gas guzzling V8 that is only to ever carry one person would rather buy a smaller vehicle the demand will then decrease and we won't have to pay as much. People also fail to realize we have had electric cars since back in the 20's but they arnt as being made for the simple fact that the battery technology hasnt gone as far as Car technology. We must first catch up in order to be able to drive a decent distance. A recent electric car can go what 80 or 90 miles on a charge? But a car can go what 200 or 300? The recharging thing take much longer then then pumping gas. The technology is many years away and we are to be at least 10 years from seeing the first commercially available to drive everywhere electric cars.


Anyways I'm done ranting I have work in the morning but I'll say this. Just because McCain doenst come out and aww everyone with this great fixes
doesnt mean he doesn't have a plan for stuff. Read up on him before you go tossing Obama on your voting card.
http://www.johnmccain.com
(http://www.johnmccain.com)

WIKED,
I don't intend to get into a heated discussion about Obama vs McCain, so let's take personalities out of the discussion.
One has to ask the question: Have the Republicans made up better off since year 2000. Don't think so. A barrel of oil was LESS than $20 in 2000 - what is it now? $120 +. Gas sold for what, $1.50 per gal in 2000 - now what is it? We had a surplus in Federal budget in 2000, now we have the highest deficit ever - and China owns 1/3 of it!!!; and Russia another significant part!! The average American worker is MUCH worse off than eight years ago - companies (big businesses) have cut benefits, shipped jobs overseas, killed unions off (only 8% of the workforce is now unionized), eliminated retirement plans, all the while paying CEO's crazy high salaries. The Dollar is at an all time low - just wait until we have to start paying EUROS for the oil we buy. Our reputation with other countries is at an all time low. And we tell Russia the day is gone when a country can invade another country with the goal of throwing out the ruler of that country - of course that what we did in Iraq. Our "forcing our view of freedom" on others is amazing, isn't it? And WE (the US) put Sadam in power to start with. This isn't the way a "respected" country should act and a reason we are not respected overseas anymore.

I could go on and on, but do ask ourselves if we are better off now than eight years ago. Even McCain has stated that we are WORSE OFF THAN FOUR YEARS AGO.

BTW, I am an Independent and actually voted for George Bush the FIRST time around ....

Harry

[dromano]

The process is playing out. It's unfortunate that most of what we will see & hear over the next 2+ months is propaganda & party message.

I thought it was disgustingly hilarious that virtually every democrat that was interviewed at the DNC said the exact same words about Bush/McCain: "we can't afford 4 more years of failed Bush/McCain policies". I kept thinking, how stupid for the same words to be spoken by most every dem. It made them look like clones.

There are a few interesting things to come: NObama's buddy Rezko will be sentenced soon, the VP debates will be extremely telling, how will NObama do in debates where he speaks off the cuff?, in McCain's wheel house.

I don't blame NObama for not doing a large number of town hall meetings as suggested by McCain, NObama knew he would be at a disadvantage. NObama is developing a rep for not being able to put a complete sentence together if he is not using a teleprompter.

Are you bothered by NObama's 20 year association with Rev Wright? Or that NObama is a pupil of the 'Chicago political machine'? Or that Michelle is 'black first', not an 'american first'? Or Nobama has not held a job other than government funded positions, best of which (in my view) was 'community organizer' in South Chicago. It is reported that in the first election Nobama ran in in Chicago he had all the opponents removed from the ballet??????:barf:

An interesting 2+ months indeed.:bash:

[Mensaf]

I don't care if a penguin is running for the Dems, no more republicans. Nothing but bad comes out of their presidencies. Obama will do plenty once he actually has the power, and doing nothing is better than doing the oppossite of what you say (as the norm has been in recent years) regardless. Does anyone here even remember what a good economy looked like?


I thought it was disgustingly hilarious that virtually every democrat that was interviewed at the DNC said the exact same words about Bush/McCain: "we can't afford 4 more years of failed Bush/McCain policies". I kept thinking, how stupid for the same words to be spoken by most every dem. It made them look like clones.


It's funny because it's true. No one wants a republican in there anymore. They're all the same.

Yea, and I'm not heading out to fight for a war I want no part of. We could see a draft under his presidency:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=606bnzAlIv0


What sucks is that I've wanted to join the ANG, but I'm waiting to see who comes out as the next president before I sign up for anything. I'll go to a country that needs help, or one that's attacked us, not one that they want cleared out for oil money. How the **** was Bush not impeached yet?

[RSVX]

I would have preferred Romney, but then again it could have been Leiberman... and then I would have not voted for McCain at ALL.

All in all, its a risky choice, but one I hope pays off. Not a big fan a McCain, and his running mate weighs heavily on who I vote for, and it's already NOT Obama.

[newsvx]

Are you bothered by NObama's 20 year association with Rev Wright? Or that NObama is a pupil of the 'Chicago political machine'? Or that Michelle is 'black first', not an 'american first'? Or Nobama has not held a job other than government funded positions, best of which (in my view) was 'community organizer' in South Chicago. It is reported that in the first election Nobama ran in in Chicago he had all the opponents removed from the ballet??????:barf:

An interesting 2+ months indeed.:bash:

If one really looks deeply into what Rev Wright said, then one knows what he meant when he said the "..chickens have come home to roost". The things this country has done in foreign countries in the past is, in my opinion, terrible and something we continue to be critical of other countries for doing. We can not / should not force our way of life on others. Iraq will never be truly democratic - not with what is within its borders now: too many factions.
Michell is NOT "black first". She, as well as many others (white included) have addressed the plight of the minorities - even the poor white. Sounds like you have bought into the Republican propaganda on a number of issues. But I say again, take the personalities out of the equation entirely and ask youself, "Am I better off now than I was in 2000"? Unless you are very well off financially, the answer has to be NO. I work at a food bank locally, and it is VERY telling. There are more people needing help these days and fewer that believe that they can help out. Our country is in a sad state presently. I would vote for Mickey Mouse come Nov rather than another Republican .....

[benebob]

She's a joke with 2 balloons and a heartbeat. I give McCain a month before he's popping his viagra with her.:D

Seriously, I find it hillarious that a 72 year old with a history of cancer, high blood pressure would pick someone who (no offense to Alaska) has governed for less than 2 years a very homogeneous state (politically at least) with less population than the city of Philadelphia but yet run attack adds against his opponent regarding experience.

I would have prefered that he actually made his choice rather than letting Rush do it for him, it simply shows that his spine has become that of a jellyfish in recent years.

Sadly Bob Barr is proving he can't do a 3rd party run so Nader all the way! Sure he's older than McCain but he also still has more than 1/2 of his mind left and all of his spine left.

[dromano]

She's a joke with 2 balloons and a heartbeat. I give McCain a month before he's popping his viagra with her.:D

Seriously, I find it hillarious that a 72 year old with a history of cancer, high blood pressure would pick someone who (no offense to Alaska) has governed for less than 2 years a very homogeneous state (politically at least) with less population than the city of Philadelphia but yet run attack adds against his opponent regarding experience.

I would have prefered that he actually made his choice rather than letting Rush do it for him, it simply shows that his spine has become that of a jellyfish in recent years.

Sadly Bob Barr is proving he can't do a 3rd party run so Nader all the way! Sure he's older than McCain but he also still has more than 1/2 of his mind left and all of his spine left.

benebob,

so refreshing of you to display your true colors, why not just say"I'm a liberal what ever"??? Politically you suck big time as far as this conservative is concerned. Just come out front or what ever. Politically you are an egniba....I don't get it........

[Wikedjuggalo]

I will agree with you 100% our economy has gone to hell in a hand basket. But we are at war....... Does no one think this plays a part in anything? Look back at previous wars and see how the economy was? I can bet it wasnt all peachy and prosperous.

[NikFu S.]

But we are at war....... Does no one think this plays a part in anything?

Nope. I don't even think we are really at war.

[immortal_suby]

I think it's fantastic
A woman who won't take my guns away running with a man who won't take my guns away.

[svxcess]

I keep thinking back to Hillary's campaign adat against Obama back in March...


"It's 3 a.m. and your children are safe and asleep
But there's a phone in the White House and it's ringing
Something's happening in the world
Your vote will decide who answers that call
Whether it's someone who already knows the world's leaders, knows the military -- someone tested and ready to lead in a dangerous world
It's 3 a.m. and your children are safe and asleep
Who do you want answering the phone?"


Now let's modify it a little... pick your party... doesn't matter...

"It's 3 a.m. and your children are safe and asleep
But there's a phone in the White House and it's ringing
Something's happening in the world
Your vote decided who answers that call
Whether it's someone who already knew the world's leaders, knew the military -- someone tested and ready to lead in a dangerous world
But the President died tonight
Who do you want answering the phone?"


I can only imagine one of them saying "Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore"

.

[benebob]

benebob,

so refreshing of you to display your true colors, why not just say"I'm a liberal what ever"??? Politically you suck big time as far as this conservative is concerned. Just come out front or what ever. Politically you are an egniba....I don't get it........

Ummm... who's the one who obviously doesn't know how to read or comprehend someone's position? I think anyone with an education would find you're statement as hilarious as picking a woman who has PTA member listed in her creds if you are calling Bob Barr a liberal.

Crawl back under your rock a little while longer if you can't open your eyes to the reality of two horrible "best of the best" the two major parties can put out there or if you're unable to ask for people's opinions when your ignorance prevents you from accepting ideas that aren't formed under your rock.

Neither one ever understands that the biggest solution to our economic woes is simply fixing the dollar. It would be quite different if our country actually made something other than Coke, Tobacco and Budwiser (wait, scratch that last one, I forgot, Cindy's family sold that one off so they could save $55 million a year in taxes in that tax haven we all know as Europe:rolleyes:).

[ensteele]

Please stop these personal attacks, and just discuss the issues. :o

[dromano]

OK, tell us your critical views on Obama/Biden.

Is Bob Barr a Libertarian?

[benebob]

OK, tell us your critical views on Obama/Biden.

Is Bob Barr a Libertarian?

Already did, search button does wonders. Just don't ask McCain how to use it:lol:.

Is Bob Barr a Libertarian?

So nice to see you're up on politics:rolleyes:.

[dromano]

Already did, search button does wonders. Just don't ask McCain how to use it:lol:.



So nice to see you're up on politics:rolleyes:.

I've spent way too much time searching for "your" posts on Obama comments.
Mostly it looks like you are a slap shot artist with a slip slide motivation.

Please, tell us your opinion of Obama/Biden.

What I found in your political posts leads me to believe you want to be some where else. Some one as cynical as you should be in Cuba, Venezula, Bolivia, Equador or China.

[Hondasucks]

Hey, she's an NRA member and a hunter, they've got my vote! I don't care if they are Republicans lol.

(I was all set to vote for Kerry in 04, and then Bush (wisely) let the (useless) Clinton assault weapons ban expire, and that very day Kerry was on the TV telling people how "Bush put guns into the hands of terrorists by letting that ban expire" and I just thought "wow, if you think that ban KEPT ANYTHING OUT of the hands of terrorists (or any ban for that matter, considering most terrorists, like other criminals, have no regard for laws) you're an idiot...) So he didn't have my vote anymore...
Remember, criminals prefer unarmed victims :)

[newsvx]

Already did, search button does wonders. Just don't ask McCain how to use it:lol:.



So nice to see you're up on politics:rolleyes:.

Now Ben, be nice. We can all discuss even political differences without name-calling. You sound like a Republican .......:D

[benebob]

I've spent way too much time searching for "your" posts on Obama comments.
Mostly it looks like you are a slap shot artist with a slip slide motivation.

Please, tell us your opinion of Obama/Biden.

What I found in your political posts leads me to believe you want to be some where else. Some one as cynical as you should be in Cuba, Venezula, Bolivia, Equador or China.

At least I'm not asking for opinions of people then *****ing when you get it. The world does not revolve around your hole in the ground.

As for Obama, he just like Hilary are both non-factors. They can't be elected in this country provided they are running against some with, well a pulse (we shall see come Nov. if McCain has one).

Its as simple as the math. In a general election can you tell me when the last time the popular vote was won by more than 5%? I know, I'm asking you to do a search again, which from your computer science by McCain ability you failed to do but try again, you'll never learn unless you try. Just don't be like McCain and be unwilling to try!

Now, there is well over 5% of the population that will not vote for a black man (which I still wonder why he's assumed black as he's just as white as he is black). There is also well over 5% of the population that won't vote for a woman for president. It is as simple as a quick look at the math.

Aside from that, he's got big ears and a funny name but does have an ability to tap into something for a lot of people. Unlike Hilary who seems to gain support from the "what will you do for me crowd" he seems capable of getting many involved in politics, involved in the discussions that should be had and involved in wanting to work towards a stronger country. That's pretty good considering that much of his support base initially was from the "I don't have to work gen y and younger crowd".

As for you're continued PERSONAL ATTACKS I GUESS YOU CAN'T READ RESPONSES IN YOU'RE OWN POST, IGNORE THE REQUESTS OF THE MODERATORS OR ARE TOO BUSY LOOKING AT YOUR REFECTION IN THE ROCK that you cannot comprehend others can have differing opinions of what both the Republicans and Democrats have done to the future of this country. I believe strongly in this country for all of its failings it is still the great hope for the world. Sadly both parties have saddled it with huge foreign debts, a crumbling infastructure and a lowering quality of life for its citizens over the past 35 years.

I'd ask you to look up what history tells us that means but sadly, your mentality will do nothing for the future of this country. Your mentality will accelerate the decline of Rome. Your mentality will lead to the yet another dark age. Your mentality will simply force others to take shelter under the rock from hence you crawled.

[dromano]

benebob,

Not a bad job of personal attack:D Venom is what venom does:rolleyes:

You made reference earlier to those that receive more than they put in and that you and your generation bare the result of the equation. I for one started SSI at 62 and have already received more than I paid in, do I feel bad about that? h3ll no!!!:p I paid in for 46 years, it's not my fault the funds were not invested properly. My dad is 91 and healthy, I'm looking forward to a lot more SSI checks.

Will you write in Nader or Keyes on 11/4?

Dave

[newsvx]

Ben, Ben, Ben!

Dromano, Dromano, Dromano!

Both of you are acting like "kids"! This could have been a reasonable discussion until the two of you started throwing your mess around! Respect each other's views! And disagree respectfully! Both of you are showing your colors way too much!!:(

Harry

[Manarius]

I will agree with you 100% our economy has gone to hell in a hand basket. But we are at war....... Does no one think this plays a part in anything? Look back at previous wars and see how the economy was? I can bet it wasnt all peachy and prosperous.Therein lies the problem. The Republicans want their cake and to eat it as well. They want to fight wars but not suffer at home.

They can't have it both ways. If you want to fight a war, then fight a war and be prepared to face the consequences. Otherwise, stop getting our soldiers killed in other countries over something that isn't a war.

As for Palin: The Republicans just better stop with the experience attack ads. If they don't, the Republican party just better adopt the platform of hypocrisy because that's what they stand for when they're attacking Obama, while having Palin on the ticket who's even newer to the game than Obama.

[dromano]

Ben, Ben, Ben!

Dromano, Dromano, Dromano!

Both of you are acting like "kids"! This could have been a reasonable discussion until the two of you started throwing your mess around! Respect each other's views! And disagree respectfully! Both of you are showing your colors way too much!!:(

Harry

I will attempt to tone it down. As I've become older I have more difficulty "letting IT go". I know the system is way imperfect, it's the only one we have.
If some one takes shots at all the participants,i.e., "idiots", "slime" then I think that is wrong. If you don't take sides then stay on the side line quietly.

Dave

[benebob]

benebob,

Not a bad job of personal attack:D Venom is what venom does:rolleyes:

You made reference earlier to those that receive more than they put in and that you and your generation bare the result of the equation. I for one started SSI at 62 and have already received more than I paid in, do I feel bad about that? h3ll no!!!:p I paid in for 46 years, it's not my fault the funds were not invested properly. My dad is 91 and healthy, I'm looking forward to a lot more SSI checks.

Will you write in Nader or Keyes on 11/4?

Dave

Funds were invested properly for the record at least originally as it was a fund that collected a cool 7-9 percent safely in US bonds and securities. The greedy RUSHPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRAPS couldn't keep their hands off it so they've squandered the boomer surplus on their failed policies and agendas. Then they ignore simple adjustments in benefits or contributions as the population changes. I'm sure you voted for these idiots each time too as they promised you the moon and you wanted more cheese rather than fiscal responsiblity.

It humors me that the Grand Oil Party was once the fiscally responsible and conservation minded party. Not sure how they got that way since even in the "good" Regan years they squandered nearly 2 trillion dollars on that wonderful war on drugs only to 20 years later embrace the benefits of the poppy in Afganistan.

Next time you feel the insecurity in yourself to question another citizen's patriotism or belief that as Obigears put it the other night. We are Americans first and party second (only he got it wrong as political parties are 3/4 of the problem).

As for who I vote for that is a personal issue. I will say that I did donate to 4 canidates this year. 1 Republican and 3 "others". I even have one of these canidate's bumper stickers on all of my vehicles simply because it really pisses off the "Hope" voters. Even in PA (one of the most anti-major party states for ballot access I think at this point the Constitution Party, Lib Party, Green Party and Nader will all be on the ballot. Thanks in a major way to the State Demo. Party paying staff members to prevent its citizens the right to make a choice other than bad and worse. That's what is they want you to choose from, personally I'm smarter than that. I simply wish others were instead of playing into the scare tactics both parties use to prevent a full dialog of the real issues.

Its more fun to worry about the non issues they spout: abortion, change, jobs, partisan white noise and drilling rather than the real issues: the dollar, education, an energy plan, health care, our military and our infastructure... All things that Americans have a universal stake in seeing they are the best in the world.

BTW Harry, I was perfectly civil in answering Dave's question in my first post. Sure it was crude but he asked for an opinion and that is what he got. He simply didn't want to hear that she isn't the second oh right 3rd coming of Christ right after Rush's Messiah!:lol:

[lhopp77]

You can't blame Bush for much of the real or perceived current economic problems. The mortgage mess and high oil prices and its impact on other prices was going to happen no matter who was president. Particularly, if the liberal democrats continue to block new oil exploration in areas where there are know reserves (size unknown until drilled).

BUT a notice to you far left liberals that do oppose drilling new offshore wells or in areas such as ANWAR:
CHINA is drilling within 35 miles of the US coast and is drilling SLANT holes which takes them even closer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now--how smart is it that the Democrats block the US doing this drilling??????????? Dumb, dumb, dumb!!!!

As to Palin--no matter how you slice it, she has as much experience (qualification) as Hussein Obama who is incidently more Arab than Black. AND--she is running for VP and not Prez. :p

Lee

PS: As to the weak US dollar--all of you bleeding hearts do a quick survey around your house--How many products do you have made in China versus made in the USA??????????? Reckon that might have something to do with it?????

[dromano]

Benebob,

Do you think everything politicians say is just to be elected? I think I would rather believe a new voice till or if proven otherwise. Why disrespect a woman that appears to be a reformer and a fighter?

When push comes to shove would you prefer a result like Ross Perot gave us in 92? Does it not matter to you which of the 2 major parties are in control? Do you like paying taxes? I just don't understand why a person that does not support either party would not in the final hour support one in your best interest.

What is it like to be disgusted with both major parties? Right, wrong, or otherwise, one of those parties will make the important decisions for 2,4,6,8 years. Making a personal statement by voting or supporting a party/candidate that has no chance is the same as not voting or voting against a major party/candidate.

I don't want more taxes. I want leaders that are sensitive to job creators.

[dromano]

Just as we are paying the price for not seriously developing non petroleum energy sources 30+ years ago, we will pay a huge price for allowing all the products that are made in China. What if China cut us off? Massive US start ups? Hardly, we would suffer big time for a long time.

In 2000 we had $13 a barrel oil, we let the OPEC producers woo us even before there was an OPEC. During the 70's oil embargo we should have sucked it up and made serious moves to alternate energy, but, no, we don't do 'suck up' well.

So we are paying for our collective lack of attention? Maybe we really can only blame ourselves.:confused:

[benebob]

Benebob,

Do you think everything politicians say is just to be elected?


Until proven wrong then yes.

Benebob,

Why disrespect a woman that appears to be a reformer and a fighter?



A reformer by using her influance to help her family while ignoring her 17 year old daughter is your idea of a reformer and a fighter? I guess she must've been shooting her gun while her daughter was fulfilling every 17 year olds dream of getting knocked up.

Benebob,
When push comes to shove would you prefer a result like Ross Perot gave us in 92? Does it not matter to you which of the 2 major parties are in control? Do you like paying taxes? I just don't understand why a person that does not support either party would not in the final hour support one in your best interest.


Only reason Ross Perot gave that is because the voters let him. I'm too principled to go against my belief for continued crap in elected office. I'd rather be part of the solution then part of the problem. If you don't care about your principles enough (aside from your taxes) to vote with your heart then I feel for you.

As for if I like paying taxes, my response is simple. You can knock the federal government all you want but in the end it is the most efficient, most professional, best run government in the world (even with the partisan politics). I've yet to hear a so called "conservative" advocate disbanding the largest government cost over run there is, our military. That's because it is simply the best this world has ever seen yet they do pay quite a bit for their toilets too. No I don't like paying taxes any more than anyone else but I also don't like paying my electric bill, my car insurance, my health insurance, my water bill, and on and on and on. It is my responsiblity as an American to pay my taxes just as it is yours.

As someone who no doubt uses medicare or caid I'm sure you're well aware of its shortcoming. I'm also sure you're well aware of its advantages
otherwise you wouldn't use it. Health insurance is just as vital in a global economy to have at the very least a program of last resort for your neighbors and mine who loose coverage for whatever reason as without it my insurance costs sky rocket, hospitals go under and the poor still don't pay for their heath care and are thus unhealthy and less productive at their work.

Just as I support public access to safe drinking water for the country and school lunches for children, as there is a common good, I support basic health care at a reasonable cost. If someone wants more than by all means they can pay for an expanded policy. Without it we will continue to fall behind the other countries that do.

Benebob,
What is it like to be disgusted with both major parties? Right, wrong, or otherwise, one of those parties will make the important decisions for 2,4,6,8 years. Making a personal statement by voting or supporting a party/candidate that has no chance is the same as not voting or voting against a major party/candidate.


What gives you that impression. I'm disgusted with idiots who support canidates because they are happy with the lesser of two evils. The canidates themselves and parties only give voters what they need to in order to get elected. Did you really think that they do it for the money or the fame?

The only reason that better canidates don't have a chance is because of the poor choices made in the voting booth or from the fear tactics used by both parties to brainwash you into thinking that X will happen if you elect the other guy, then there is the political exclusion they endure trying to compete against the two parties who have delivered their trash to your TV.

I'm a realist who understands that the longer the country goes down this path, the harder it will be to dig us out. I also realize that by that time the rest of the country will have realized that their political system was the problem all along and in the end it will be easier to dig out simply because Americans will have decided to vote for the best person for office, not the party line, not the lesser of bad but for someone who can lead.


I don't want more taxes. I want leaders that are sensitive to job creators.

So then either you support a national health care system as that is the excuse given by nearly every employer who pulls out of this country or can't expand their workforce because of the legacy health care costs or maybe you support the new America where we make nothing, sell nothing abroad, buy everything from countries who we shipped our jobs too then leave Americans with nice, low paying service jobs to pay for your SS.

I don't want to pay more taxes either but when I look at the alternatives of raising a daughter, putting her through college so she can work for WalMart at what I make today (she's 3 BTW) then I'll gladly pay more for taxes if needed to ensure that America has that chance to remain as the beacon of light. I guess you don't care about America as much as you're pocket or as much as you like to think if your not willing to ensure your kids live better than you have.

[benebob]

So we are paying for our collective lack of attention? Maybe we really can only blame ourselves.:confused:

My point exactly.

Why don't we listen to Lee though and drill, drill, drill until we run dry then since we don't have a collective attention span of more than 2 minutes we'll have a country which runs on oil, no oil to use and a pissed off bear in Russia who waited 75 years for this day while sitting on a pile of "military" strategic oil reserves.

Last time I checked our military needed oil to run. I'm not opposed to drilling but I'm opposed to drilling unchecked with no concern for our future.

While Lee is right about China he's forgetting that Cuba also came directly to the US after Castro overthru a brutally corrupt US puppet state wanting to develop an economic partnership. Naturally we rebuffed as it was the middle of the cold war. We'll trade with China today, we'll trade with Vietnam today but Cuba is still an island in need of our help towards the light yet we shun it. I'm sure if any president would go down there and sign that deal to drill there in return for starting a normalization process the Cubans would send the Chinese packing in a heartbeat.

I guess the Cuban gov't must be worse than the Chinese gov't though and we're taking the moral high road. Just don't be suprised when Russia send some interceptor missles there to counter the ones we decided to place in Poland.

[Manarius]

You can't blame Bush for much of the real or perceived current economic problems. The mortgage mess and high oil prices and its impact on other prices was going to happen no matter who was president. Particularly, if the liberal democrats continue to block new oil exploration in areas where there are know reserves (size unknown until drilled).

BUT a notice to you far left liberals that do oppose drilling new offshore wells or in areas such as ANWAR:
CHINA is drilling within 35 miles of the US coast and is drilling SLANT holes which takes them even closer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now--how smart is it that the Democrats block the US doing this drilling??????????? Dumb, dumb, dumb!!!!

As to Palin--no matter how you slice it, she has as much experience (qualification) as Hussein Obama who is incidently more Arab than Black. AND--she is running for VP and not Prez. :p

Lee

PS: As to the weak US dollar--all of you bleeding hearts do a quick survey around your house--How many products do you have made in China versus made in the USA??????????? Reckon that might have something to do with it?????Lee, have you even read the numbers for offshore drilling? The amount of oil produced within the next 10 years with our offshore drilling doesn't even count as a drop in the bucket of how much oil we use a day in the US.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/20/new_offshore_drilling_not_a_quick_fix_analysts_say/?page=2

But in the best-case scenario, Kaufmann said, the United States could only produce an additional two to four million barrels of offshore oil a day - not enough to shift the global supply-demand balance in a world market that now consumes about 86 million barrels a day and is growing fast. About a quarter of that consumption now occurs in the United States.

Offshore drilling is useless. Like T. Boone Pickens says in the commercials on TV: Drill all you want, that isn't solving the problem.

[shotgunslade]

I would like to put in a vote for higher taxes. I probably pay more taxes than most people here, but I only regret those payments because they have been wasted on "foreign adventures.". I just wish the money were spent on things that would make the US more competitive and thus help, as Benebob has suggested, strengthen the dollar. We have an enormous balance of payments deficit and an enormous federal budget deficit. We need to bring both of those down, and more taxation particularly of those who can afford it, would certainly help both of these.

This summer I did a river cruise on the Danube, Main and Rhine rivers. The Main and the Danube are connected by a canal, with many locks. This canal was built with taxpayer money. It primarily is a conduit for bulk commodities, ore, coal, agricultural products. The lock fees will never pay back the capital cost of this canal. But, this canal has a number of benefits for Germany and Europe as a whole. it significantly decreases the cost of transporting commodities, keeping their costs down for everyone. It significantly reduces truck traffic on their highways, increasing safety, improving the autobahn experience. It is an infrastructure improvement that has demonstrated advantages for all. Originally, the US interstate highway system was the same deal. Today, we are burdened with spending for highly parochial interests. There is no national plan for infrastructure improvement, such as railroads, bridges to somewhere, etc.

So, I am for a balanced federal budget, increased spending for infrastructure, and increased taxes for those who can afford them. I do not buy the line that increasing taxes on the wealthy decreases their incentive to invest and thereby decreases the benefits of these investments for all Americans. The trickle down argument is crap. There is pretty good statistical evidence that supply side economic programs actually tend to depress the economy. Economic growth occurs more frequently with more balanced federal budgets, more infrastructure investment, and as a result higher taxes on the wealthy and corporations.

[shotgunslade]

As for Barack Obama's ethnic origin, his mother's maiden name is originally English, his grandmother's maiden name is French (Normandy), via England. His father is from the Luo tribe of Kenya, whose linguistic and genetic roots are both Semitic (Nubian, etc in Sudan) and sub-Saharan African. Ain't no Arabic in there at all, except, if you go back many thousands of years, there is a common genetic connection between Arabic and Nilo-semitic groups. Of course, you go back a few more thousands of years and we are all "out of Africa."

[lhopp77]

Lee, have you even read the numbers for offshore drilling? The amount of oil produced within the next 10 years with our offshore drilling doesn't even count as a drop in the bucket of how much oil we use a day in the US.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/20/new_offshore_drilling_not_a_quick_fix_analysts_say/?page=2


Offshore drilling is useless. Like T. Boone Pickens says in the commercials on TV: Drill all you want, that isn't solving the problem.

I think you need to do some reading. The problem is---------------we do NOT know what we have in the way of TOTAL reserves because key areas have not been explored to determine this. THAT is what needs to be done---FIND OUT HOW MUCH WE REALLY HAVE. AFTER we determine our total reserves, we can better assess how much time we have AND how much money we need to throw at alternatives. One of the initial approaches to alternatives---corn based ethanol--was stupid, stupid, stupid.

Also, think you need to listen to TBoone again. He says--drill, drill, drill, but also poses the realistic approach of alternatives. He says drill, drill, drill, to buy time to develop the alternatives.

You also need to review your data on offshore oil resources and get it from something other than liberal sources that play down the need to do this drilling. EVEN in the 90's more than 30 percent of the worldwide oil production was coming from offshore wells. This has increased and as I said--We do NOT know how much we have offshore because we have not been permitted to drill enough in all potential areas to make a determination

Lee

[Manarius]

I think you need to do some reading. The problem is---------------we do NOT know what we have in the way of TOTAL reserves because key areas have not been explored to determine this. THAT is what needs to be done---FIND OUT HOW MUCH WE REALLY HAVE. AFTER we determine our total reserves, we can better assess how much time we have AND how much money we need to throw at alternatives. One of the initial approaches to alternatives---corn based ethanol--was stupid, stupid, stupid.

Also, think you need to listen to TBoone again. He says--drill, drill, drill, but also poses the realistic approach of alternatives. He says drill, drill, drill, to buy time to develop the alternatives.

You also need to review your data on offshore oil resources and get it from something other than liberal sources that play down the need to do this drilling. EVEN in the 90's more than 30 percent of the worldwide oil production was coming from offshore wells. This has increased and as I said--We do NOT know how much we have offshore because we have not been permitted to drill enough in all potential areas to make a determination

LeeLee, you immediately dismiss the source and therefore ignore the facts of the situation. Offshore drilling is not environmentally friendly. If you had actually taken the time to read the article, you would have seen that.

Offshore drilling is not the answer. We need to stop pissing off the world's oil producers and we won't have any more problems.

[lhopp77]

Lee, you immediately dismiss the source and therefore ignore the facts of the situation. Offshore drilling is not environmentally friendly. If you had actually taken the time to read the article, you would have seen that.

Offshore drilling is not the answer. We need to stop pissing off the world's oil producers and we won't have any more problems.

I think you are the one that is ignoring fact and reality. You need to check out the Australian offshore drilling operations. Nearly all of Australian domestic oil is from offshore drilling. Just do a little unbiased research for a change and see how environmentally safe it is.

There have been over 4000 wells drilled in the Gulf of Mexico--can you describe the adverse environmental impact resulting from this large number of wells???? I doubt it. Again more fiction than fact as to environmental impact.

What do you propose--leave the oil in the ground for countries such as China to drill it by advanced slant hole techniques??????? That makes a lot of sense. :rolleyes:

Lee

[RSVX]

I need to hunt down my source, but I read *somewhere* that mother nature leaks more oil into the environment than the current or proposed offshore drilling would... ever.

[lhopp77]

I need to hunt down my source, but I read *somewhere* that mother nature leaks more oil into the environment than the current or proposed offshore drilling would... ever.

Here is a link to an example that you are talking about. Isn't it amazing how the totally uninformed can get things so wrong and try to mislead others? :rolleyes:


http://www.livescience.com/environment/050203_oil_seep.html

Lee

[RSVX]

Here is a link to an example that you are talking about. Isn't it amazing how the totally uninformed can get things so wrong and try to mislead others? :rolleyes:


http://www.livescience.com/environment/050203_oil_seep.html

Lee

Thanks for that Lee, you have saved me some effort.

Some wonders will never cease to amaze me, one of which being how much you and I agree upon, lately. :lol:

The other being what you said about misinformed individuals.

[benebob]

What do you propose--leave the oil in the ground for countries such as China to drill it by advanced slant hole techniques??????? That makes a lot of sense. :rolleyes:

Lee

Your right Lee, lets burn it all in your car so our military doesn't have any to defend us with. China will not infringe on US waters. They need the US to pay them back to risk a war. Drill drill drill to insecurity it is Lee's way to ruin our future!:rolleyes:

[dromano]

The "now" "issue" is bring down gas prices!!!!!!!!! If you find joy in the price you are paying for gas, just keep blasting the status quo. I don't care for my situation where I can't do what I want to do because gas costs tooo much. I'm not alone, look at the figures for miles driven, last month vs this month, this month vs a year ago this month. We are not driving as many miles "SURPRISE", and this trend will continue. I'm driving 50% less, may only walk soon, screw OPEC!!!!!!!! Folks, the game is on, you more interested in your principles than your pocket book? At this date and time my interest is concentrated on my ability to pay.

[lhopp77]

Your right Lee, lets burn it all in your car so our military doesn't have any to defend us with. China will not infringe on US waters. They need the US to pay them back to risk a war. Drill drill drill to insecurity it is Lee's way to ruin our future!:rolleyes:

You obviously don't read all of my comments. I also strongly advocate alternative fuel research, development and production. BUT--we need to drill in ALL of our potential areas TO DETERMINE OUR TOTAL RESERVES FOR THE BASIS OF DECISION MAKING.

This doesn't mean that we have necessarily pump it or use it but a large reserve would definitely discourage speculation on futures.

Humm, and wasn't it you or one of your buddies that was knocking Bush for continuing to put oil in reserve for future military use? :confused:

I definitely think we should drill AND pump in areas vulnerable exploitation by other countries such as the Chinese. But, that doesn't mean we would have to use ALL of our resources.

I want to know and get a clear answer from you naysayers---What is wrong will drilling in ALL areas to at least determing the TOTAL level of OUR reserves???????? Could it be that maybe you suspect there are much larger reserves that we know have???

Lee

[NikFu S.]

I'm totally cool with both gas prices and our current oil reserves.

Less apparent supply = higher cost = more consumer conservation = more rapid advancement of alternatives, not to mention more free money for me for the time being.

I don't drive that much. Last months fuel bill was cheaper than my phone bill by about $20.
Phone and internet service, now that is where the price gouging is going on. What's worse is I use my phone less than 100 minutes a month.

Anyway, drilling won't solve anyone's problems. The cost is far too prohibitive to drill just to "see how much is there", and even then you can't really know. It's pointless.

If the Chinese are drilling off our coast, I think we should tap whatever reserve they have found. It's not like they own the ocean floor.

[benebob]

If the Chinese are drilling off our coast, I think we should tap whatever reserve they have found. It's not like they own the ocean floor.

In reality they do since they are drilling inside Cuban territorial waters under an agreement with the Cubans.:lol:

[benebob]

You obviously don't read all of my comments. I also strongly advocate alternative fuel research, development and production. BUT--we need to drill in ALL of our potential areas TO DETERMINE OUR TOTAL RESERVES FOR THE BASIS OF DECISION MAKING.

This doesn't mean that we have necessarily pump it or use it but a large reserve would definitely discourage speculation on futures.

Humm, and wasn't it you or one of your buddies that was knocking Bush for continuing to put oil in reserve for future military use? :confused:

I definitely think we should drill AND pump in areas vulnerable exploitation by other countries such as the Chinese. But, that doesn't mean we would have to use ALL of our resources.

I want to know and get a clear answer from you naysayers---What is wrong will drilling in ALL areas to at least determing the TOTAL level of OUR reserves???????? Could it be that maybe you suspect there are much larger reserves that we know have???

Lee

You don't need to drill to make an educated guess with the available technology we have today. Remember I believe you were arguing that the land that is open to drilling isn't worth a darn (which may be the case, however I find it very interesting that not one of the oil companies who has a lease on said land turned it back to the gov't) but I don't see the companies "drilling" wells to find out.

Once they invest the resources to drill do you really think they'll let the platforms and wells sit idle? I'm not willing to waste tax payer dollars subsizing these wells just as I'm not willing to waste tax payer dollars for farmland to sit idle!

Bush didn't put reserves in, he simply refused to (wisely I might add) not slow down or stop for a few pennies at the pump in the short term. Wasn't me nor one of my so called "buddies".

As I've said and still believe, run the world dry of oil then tap ours, sure its greedy but it isn't like we're twisting OPEC's arm to squeeze the sweet stuff out.

[NikFu S.]

They don't have to know. ;)

I do think it would be a better idea to just open up trade relations with Cuba, whoever mentioned that earlier.

[benebob]

The "now" "issue" is bring down gas prices!!!!!!!!! If you find joy in the price you are paying for gas, just keep blasting the status quo. I don't care for my situation where I can't do what I want to do because gas costs tooo much. I'm not alone, look at the figures for miles driven, last month vs this month, this month vs a year ago this month. We are not driving as many miles "SURPRISE", and this trend will continue. I'm driving 50% less, may only walk soon, screw OPEC!!!!!!!! Folks, the game is on, you more interested in your principles than your pocket book? At this date and time my interest is concentrated on my ability to pay.

Though I feel for you it hurts everyone when they fill up. I drive an F-250 but most days I ride a motorcycle that gets me 80mpg or so b/c I don't feel like wasting my money. Driving less can be a good thing for the country. Maybe it'll make us healthier from the long walks so that we can actually sit in a Smartcar:lol:.

As drilling and gas prices that's where your confused on economics and a global economy. You should know that we currently ship about 50 percent of our domestic pumped and refined diesel overseas (have you looked at diesel prices compared to gas). Overall in any given year roughly 20-25 percent of our domestically drilled crude goes to other countries.

Gas is simply a global commodity which sells to the highest bidder. Drilling more will simply mean that there "could" be more oil on the market not that there will be more oil in the market or it will be cheaper. Say we pump out an extra 10 million barrels a day. That extra 10 million barrels goes to the highest bidder and if China says we will pay more than the US then they do and get that oil. Sure it could create more oil in the market but by doing so then more Chinese buy themselves a VW or BMW (sorry but they really don't like GMs or Fords any more than Americans seem to) which will lead to more people wanting oil thus higher prices in the near future. Now say Mexico sees that we're pumping more out and gas prices do steadly decline. They can cut back their production to raise the price or stabilize it so they wisely get the best bang for their buck. Any way you look at it adding more oil to the equation doesn't lower the pain at the pump when there are more people in the world using more oil everyday. Sure you may see a few cents here and there but a few cents isn't 10 percent which even at that I would've paid over $3 a gallon today when I put $75 into my tank.

Now if the dollar (which has made strides recently due to the economic downturn/recession or whatever you want to call it beginning to hit other countries) returned to pre-Bush levels on the global market we would be currently paying $80 a barrel for oil. Just what we were when gas was $1.45-$1.75 a gallon in the late 90s. OPEC would be getting a good return as they could still buy their Euro cars for a reasonable amount of American $$s, we would be getting just what you want in cheap gas, I would still be riding a motorcycle to work because, well, I'm cheap, the economy would again boom, food prices would decline, our trade deficit would decline and interest rates would decline as would inflation.

On the downside our staggering debt would be even more insurmountable since we borrowed a ton when the dollar was week thus we borrowed even more that we would've needed to had the dollar been strong. Also, that manufacturing sector that is virtually non existant in terms of international sales would have trouble selling cars in Europe and the Far East. It isn't like they're lighting up their sales as it is so those are the two major things I can live with for the benefits we'd see.

Question is, are you happy with a "maybe few cents" if the planets line up or are you willing to ask the major party idiots out there what their plan is to strengthen the dollar as they don't seem to want to talk about the real agent of change that will help you to live like you once did.

[benebob]

They don't have to know. ;)

I do think it would be a better idea to just open up trade relations with Cuba, whoever mentioned that earlier.

Woo there tough guy,:lol: that takes time and to do it right you must put carrots out there for the rabbit to come to your house and agree to your terms. You don't just hand over the keys to the club house without forcing the issue on labor laws, enviromental controls and basic human rights. Or at least we shouldn't screw up like we did in China and Vietnam. American is a beacon of light for the world, we should demand countries who want to sell to us meet whatever standards we deem necessary to ensure that $1 a day Nike shoe maker doesn't resent our hipocritical posture in the world.

[lhopp77]

You don't need to drill to make an educated guess with the available technology we have today. Remember I believe you were arguing that the land that is open to drilling isn't worth a darn (which may be the case, however I find it very interesting that not one of the oil companies who has a lease on said land turned it back to the gov't) but I don't see the companies "drilling" wells to find out.


Do some research and see IF you can come up with a pretty good estimate of our reserves with which the majority of experts can agree. :D

AND--you must have me confused with someone else--I have NEVER said that the areas open to drilling were worth nothing or even anything close that reference you attribute to me. :confused:

Lee

[benebob]

Do some research and see IF you can come up with a pretty good estimate of our reserves with which the majority of experts can agree. :D

AND--you must have me confused with someone else--I have NEVER said that the areas open to drilling were worth nothing or even anything close that reference you attribute to me. :confused:

Lee

Then its agreed, until the idiot oil companies actually tap into the land that is already open to them it is a non issue on giving them more. Lets talk more on the subject in 20 years.

[Weebitob]

You can't blame Bush for much of the real or perceived current economic problems. The mortgage mess and high oil prices and its impact on other prices was going to happen no matter who was president. Particularly, if the liberal democrats continue to block new oil exploration in areas where there are known reserves (size unknown until drilled).

Wrong, it is oil companies that are preventing themselves and prospectors from drilling in keen oil rich areas which they own, ever heard of Prudhoe Bay? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGGjbDjnNzw&feature=related) But then again, what else can you expect to happen when big corporations own excavation, refinement and distribution of a non-renewable commodity that also happens to be used as a utility? Btw, in case you are wondering why oil prices are so high in our proud free capitalist country it is due in part to other governments subsidizing, (http://banderasnews.com/0805/edat-mexgamble.htm) oil companies have to make up for the loss of distribution somewhere.


CHINA is drilling within 35 miles of the US coast and is drilling SLANT holes which takes them even closer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What can I say, you snooze you lose. (http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/china_starts_oil_drilling.html) However, the US is not the only one in danger of diplomacy in the name of Chinese oil interests with the PRC using their influence within the UN Security Council toprevent sanctions against the Sudanese government, (http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/sudan/2005/1217cover.htm) maybe because they have petroleum among other contractors there?

I know this is OT but I felt an urge to correct people that the world does not revolve around us and our current policies prevent the government from taking huge steps to change our oil and overall trading deficit situation, among other things. Which will grow as the PRC aids in further (http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?id=21322) domestic research and production.Welcome to America, land of the laze fair, home of the greedy.:lol::barf:

[newsvx]

Though I feel for you it hurts everyone when they fill up. I drive an F-250 but most days I ride a motorcycle that gets me 80mpg or so b/c I don't feel like wasting my money. Driving less can be a good thing for the country. Maybe it'll make us healthier from the long walks so that we can actually sit in a Smartcar:lol:.

As drilling and gas prices that's where your confused on economics and a global economy. You should know that we currently ship about 50 percent of our domestic pumped and refined diesel overseas (have you looked at diesel prices compared to gas). Overall in any given year roughly 20-25 percent of our domestically drilled crude goes to other countries.

Gas is simply a global commodity which sells to the highest bidder. Drilling more will simply mean that there "could" be more oil on the market not that there will be more oil in the market or it will be cheaper. Say we pump out an extra 10 million barrels a day. That extra 10 million barrels goes to the highest bidder and if China says we will pay more than the US then they do and get that oil. Sure it could create more oil in the market but by doing so then more Chinese buy themselves a VW or BMW (sorry but they really don't like GMs or Fords any more than Americans seem to) which will lead to more people wanting oil thus higher prices in the near future. Now say Mexico sees that we're pumping more out and gas prices do steadly decline. They can cut back their production to raise the price or stabilize it so they wisely get the best bang for their buck. Any way you look at it adding more oil to the equation doesn't lower the pain at the pump when there are more people in the world using more oil everyday. Sure you may see a few cents here and there but a few cents isn't 10 percent which even at that I would've paid over $3 a gallon today when I put $75 into my tank.

Now if the dollar (which has made strides recently due to the economic downturn/recession or whatever you want to call it beginning to hit other countries) returned to pre-Bush levels on the global market we would be currently paying $80 a barrel for oil. Just what we were when gas was $1.45-$1.75 a gallon in the late 90s. OPEC would be getting a good return as they could still buy their Euro cars for a reasonable amount of American $$s, we would be getting just what you want in cheap gas, I would still be riding a motorcycle to work because, well, I'm cheap, the economy would again boom, food prices would decline, our trade deficit would decline and interest rates would decline as would inflation.

On the downside our staggering debt would be even more insurmountable since we borrowed a ton when the dollar was week thus we borrowed even more that we would've needed to had the dollar been strong. Also, that manufacturing sector that is virtually non existant in terms of international sales would have trouble selling cars in Europe and the Far East. It isn't like they're lighting up their sales as it is so those are the two major things I can live with for the benefits we'd see.

Question is, are you happy with a "maybe few cents" if the planets line up or are you willing to ask the major party idiots out there what their plan is to strengthen the dollar as they don't seem to want to talk about the real agent of change that will help you to live like you once did.

Ben,
Excellent, reasonable post!! People listen when presented in this manner.

That said, a couple of corrections:

In 2000, when Bush came to the White House, oil was selling for only $20 (actually a little less).

The Chinese's favorite car (according to a PBS special recently) is a "BLACK" Buick, not a BMW or Mercedes, or whatever.

Gas prices are not the only inflation concern - everything has gone up in price tremendously. The cost of bread, as an example, is up 24%!! Why? Transportation costs due to the high price of gas!! Food costs are a major concern, and the economy is the Number one issue for the voters these days.

Harry

[newsvx]

The "now" "issue" is bring down gas prices!!!!!!!!! If you find joy in the price you are paying for gas, just keep blasting the status quo. I don't care for my situation where I can't do what I want to do because gas costs tooo much. I'm not alone, look at the figures for miles driven, last month vs this month, this month vs a year ago this month. We are not driving as many miles "SURPRISE", and this trend will continue. I'm driving 50% less, may only walk soon, screw OPEC!!!!!!!! Folks, the game is on, you more interested in your principles than your pocket book? At this date and time my interest is concentrated on my ability to pay.

DROMANO,

You are correct - to a point. The real point is that with the increases in the costs of gas, EVERYTHING goes up due to transportation costs. My kids are out of the house, grown up now, but I have friends that are concerned about how much their food bill has gone up with the rise in food prices - and we are talking basics here, not steak every night ...
Harry

[lhopp77]

It appears that a couple of you have very little knowledge of how oil leases work or even much about the oil industry. First, government leases have a specified duration with the maximum being 10 years. Some are shorter duration. If the lease owner does not drill, they lose the lease and any money they may have paid for it.

Frequently, areas with no oil potential are grouped with areas that do have potential. As oil companies are in business to make money--they will not drill in areas that have very little likelihood of having oil or gas and will not drill in areas that do have oil or gas if the production costs will exceed the value of oil obtained. Many, many marginal wells in the US are being pumped now while oil prices are high, but are not pumped when prices drop below production costs.

An example of why I say we need to drill in ANWAR is the estimate of oil reserves in the area. Different experts estimate there is somewhere between 600 million barrels to as much as 9.2 billion barrels. THIS IS PRECISELY MY POINT--we need to drill in these now off limits areas to actually make a better determination of how much there is.

So, if benebobit means that I say there are BAD OIL LEASE areas--that is true. The actual quality of the land area does not have a direct correlation to whether or not there is oil or gas.

And of course we export some oil--it is actually cheaper to export Alaskan oil and to buy Mexican or other source oil simply because of transportation costs to refining facilities.

Lee

[Weebitob]

Ben,
Excellent, reasonable post!! People listen when presented in this manner.

Harry

Indeed unlike my flaming reply of fire and brimstone.:p

Anyway, I do believe that the United States should start holding businesses to stricter standards. It does not have to be anything like during the time of breaking up Standard Oil perhaps they should listen to we the customers, since all policies right now are being dictated economically.

[dromano]

How is the price of gas In Mexico different from what the punk in Venezuela does for his socialist country? If a country produces more oil than it consumes, more power to that country offering cheap gas to its citizens. I just wish Chavez would stop trying to become emperor.

I believe as the single biggest consumer of the world's oil supply we MUST present our plans to the world to increase all energy sources and our moves away from petro energy consumption. Only if we present our plans and quickly move on them will we influence the price of oil. Even if oil continues down in price we must stick to the course to become as independent as we can. Everything in the mix, nuke, geo thermal, solar, wind, drilling everywhere, battery power, power cells, hydrogen fuel cells, higher mileage fleet requirements, mass CNG conversion, (my dad had a Dodge pickup around 1980, it ran on LP gas).

If the Dems don't move on increasing energy supply/sources they will be dead meat. However, taking into account that Pelosi is an idiot we may see more gridlock.

For certain, doing nothing is insane.:(

[Manarius]

If the Dems don't move on increasing energy supply/sources they will be dead meat. However, taking into account that Pelosi is an idiot we may see more gridlock.

For certain, doing nothing is insane.:(And Bush/Cheney/McCain are even bigger ones. They want to let the free market have at it. In the past 8 years, that has proved to be one big failure.

[dromano]

And Bush/Cheney/McCain are even bigger ones. They want to let the free market have at it. In the past 8 years, that has proved to be one big failure.

Bush/Cheney/McCain didn't put off limits on 80% of the prime drilling area the environmentalist left did that for all of us. So, lets go for $20 a gallon.


Please take a close look at this map. Then print it out and place it on your fridge where you will see it every day.

Gas at $4.10 a gallon. Who's to blame

Thanks to the environmentalist lobby and its influence on legislators in Congress, the U.S. has, for decades, been prohibited from drilling for oil in places that we know contain billions of barrels of proven reserves.

Check out this map: (Sorry, I couldn't get the map to transfer, this was in an email. It shows the areas we can't drill vs the areas we can 80/20). If you would like to see the map it belongs to Senator Larry Craig, go to his site and look under energy.



All of the 'NO' zones are places where the U.S. , thanks to Congress, is prohibited from drilling for oil.



But wait . it gets better.

* China, Cuba, Canada and others continue to drill off our shores where US companies are not allowed to drill because of Congress policies!





Yes, that's right . China and Cuba are actively exploring oil fields 50 miles from Key West, Florida while U.S. companies are barred from working in this area because of U.S. policy . So, instead of allowing the most environmentally responsible companies to operate there and increase our domestic supply, China, who has a dismal environmental record, is preparing to suck our close, lucrative oil reserves dry.

Unbelievable.

Investor's Business Daily recently explained how irresponsible Congress have been on the energy crisis. They lay into what they consider to be the worst Congress ever for .

~ Failing to allow drilling in ANWR. We have, as President Bush noted, estimated capacity of a million barrels of oil a day from this source alone -- enough for 27 million gallons of gas and diesel. But Congress won't touch it, fearful of the clout of the environmental lobby. As a result, you pay through the nose at the pump so your representative can raise campaign cash.

~ Refusing to build new refineries. The U.S. hasn't built one since 1976, yet the EPA requires at least 15 unique 'boutique' fuel blends that can be sold in different areas around the nation. This means that U.S. refinery capacity is stretched so tight that even the slightest problem at a refinery causes enormous supply problems and price spikes. Congress has done nothing about this.

~ Turning its back on nuclear power. It's safe and, with advances in nuclear reprocessing technology, waste problems have been minimized. Still, we have just 104 nuclear plants -- the same as a decade ago -- producing just 19% of our total energy. (Many European nations produce 40% or more of their power with nuclear.) Granted, nuclear power plants are expensive -- about $3 billion each. But they produce energy at $1.72/kilowatt-hour vs. $2.37 for coal and $6.35 for natural gas.

~ Raising taxes on energy producers. This is where a basic understanding of economics would help: Higher taxes and needless regulation lead to less production of a commodity. So by proposing 'windfall' and other taxes on energy companies plus tough new rules, Congress only makes our energy situation worse.

These are just a few of Congress' sins of omission - - all while India, China, Eastern Europe and the Middle East are adding more than a million barrels of new demand each and every year. New Energy Department forecasts see world oil demand growing 40% by 2030, including a 28% incre ase in the U.S.

Americans who are worried about the direction of their country, including runaway energy and food prices, should keep in mind the upcoming election isn't just about choosing a new president. We'll also pick a new Congress.

[Royal Tiger]

^ Excellent post.

And by the way I'm MUCH better off now then in 2000. Gas is still cheaper then milk, and WAY cheaper then in Europe. Do I wish it was $1.50 again? Sure, but it's never going to be $1.50 again, even if obama was in office for 20 years.

obama wants to help "working" families by incresing taxes on gasoline and on the "rich" which is people making over $100k a year. That's not rich in the Northeast. Maybe in Iowa it is.

I'll take someone who likes all the Amendments, like the 2nd, and doesn't pick and choose.

McCain/Palin gets my vote because they represent my views better then obama/Biden. If the dems are more your speed, vote for them. The idiotic posts on here have ZERO chance of making someone change their mind on who to vote for. As do those stupid commercials on TV. It is a shame most Americans only know what they know because they saw it on TV.

I'll also vote for a POW over a community organizer.

[RSVX]

Here is an excellent article...

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/columnists/fergus_shanahan/article1647092.ece

[benebob]

Ben,
Excellent, reasonable post!! People listen when presented in this manner.

That said, a couple of corrections:

In 2000, when Bush came to the White House, oil was selling for only $20 (actually a little less).

The Chinese's favorite car (according to a PBS special recently) is a "BLACK" Buick, not a BMW or Mercedes, or whatever.

Gas prices are not the only inflation concern - everything has gone up in price tremendously. The cost of bread, as an example, is up 24%!! Why? Transportation costs due to the high price of gas!! Food costs are a major concern, and the economy is the Number one issue for the voters these days.

Harry

Your right it was $20 right then but had been higher right before and nearly immediately after.

Yes the Chinese do like Buicks but BMW sells more 7 series in China then they do in the rest of the world combined. GM has done a horrible job just as they have here marketing their much improved products. They lost much their brand loyality and simply cannot get it back no matter how good of a car they build.

Gas prices just like everything else is tied to inflation and our weak dollar. That's why I can't stomach a vote for a candidate who won't even talk about the real issue that by fixing would start a chain reaction of economic gains. The two major parties simply b/c 80% of the country doesn't listen when someone talks about economics or they realize that each one of them is to blame for the impending crisis don't want to face the truth about their failed policies.

[Royal Tiger]

Palin got more votes for Mayor, the last time she ran then Biden got for President in Delaware in February 2008. She is also the only one of the four to actual serve in the Executive Branch at any level. I think she'll be fine. She isn't the normal nod with the masses politician, and that's a good thing.

[benebob]

The oil companies are willing to pay for the leases and many times to let them sit idle as naturally with any business it is better to have prices at the highest level possible yet not to decrease the desire for consumption of the product beyond what is reasonable to achieve max profits. They do it simply so their competition can't go in and drill there either in some cases.

Remember those little supply vs. demand graphs from school. There are quite a few leases that have not seen a single well drilled, a single probe sent, a single dinghy floated over top with oil workers searching for the next big one not because there isn't oil there but rather it isn't in the companies best interest to drill.

Estimates for anwar are very accurate once you do what most anaylists agree works the best when estimating. You eliminate the 2 highest and 1 lowest legit researched amount then average the remaining together. It isn't rocket science but is very accurate!

The downside to drilling everywhere is that then our enemies also know exactly what is there and how much we have (or soon will). That is a very unsettling reality.

Transportation cost does come into play but if China comes over and buys all the oil futures at $250 a barrel, we decide that is too much to pay and don't there is absolutely nothing stopping every drop of oil produced here from going oversees. It is the reality of a free market where commodities trade to the buyer willing to pay the most.

Once the open leased areas are drilled and the resources are available to expand beyond these areas then is the time to talk about other areas but again, the oil companies aren't showing a desire to bring more oil to the market by letting many of these leases sit stagnant until they expire.

Its the same as I've been saying with Bush's Ethanol fiasco all along. Cars since the mid 80s have been designed to run on a 10% eth. and 90% gas mix but yet nationwide we never really got past about 6% eth in all the gas used for on road travel. It made absolutely no sense to push for automakers and the infastructure of delivering an alternative fuel to waste time and resources on E-85 until we had 10% eth. in every gallon of gas sold in this country. What happened was the amount of eth. in "normal" gas went down as it was marketed as e-85 even as production of it increased. Just another one of Washington's failed polices. I wonder when I can go put my deposit down on that hydrogen car Bush promised I'd be able to buy at average car prices in 2010? Wasted time, wasted resources, wasted future. That's what the Rushpublicans and Democraps deliver!

It appears that a couple of you have very little knowledge of how oil leases work or even much about the oil industry. First, government leases have a specified duration with the maximum being 10 years. Some are shorter duration. If the lease owner does not drill, they lose the lease and any money they may have paid for it.

Frequently, areas with no oil potential are grouped with areas that do have potential. As oil companies are in business to make money--they will not drill in areas that have very little likelihood of having oil or gas and will not drill in areas that do have oil or gas if the production costs will exceed the value of oil obtained. Many, many marginal wells in the US are being pumped now while oil prices are high, but are not pumped when prices drop below production costs.

An example of why I say we need to drill in ANWAR is the estimate of oil reserves in the area. Different experts estimate there is somewhere between 600 million barrels to as much as 9.2 billion barrels. THIS IS PRECISELY MY POINT--we need to drill in these now off limits areas to actually make a better determination of how much there is.

So, if benebobit means that I say there are BAD OIL LEASE areas--that is true. The actual quality of the land area does not have a direct correlation to whether or not there is oil or gas.

And of course we export some oil--it is actually cheaper to export Alaskan oil and to buy Mexican or other source oil simply because of transportation costs to refining facilities.

Lee

[benebob]

. I think she'll be fine. She isn't the normal nod with the masses politician, and that's a good thing.

You can say that again, she's a book banning, bible beating, power abusing do as I say not as I do politician. It just so happens that every other major politician from Alaska in the past few years seems to be 100x worse.

Anybody who equates the Iraq war to "God's work, advocates putting a pipeline in your evening prayer session because it is something that God would want, parades a 4 month old around in public at a time he should be sleeping comfortably in his crib so she can score political points because of his special needs, slows down by refusing to testify rather than speeding up an ethics investigation so that results are not likely prior to the national election is sure going to be "fine" in any sane person's mine too.:confused:

[Royal Tiger]

She hasn't said God is a Republican like dirtbag DNC idiots, or laugh at the prospect of 1,000's of Americans dying in another flood to stop the RNC Convention:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrBus8ORR78

There are idiots in both parties. The difference is the Republicans don't bow before their messiah. obama is getting a free ride in the media, while Palin is not. Somehow obama doing cocaine and marijuana is no big deal, however according to that POS NY Times, Palin's husband's DUI 22 years ago is important.

[shelfy]

i was ted stevens in the mock senate of our ninth grade american government class. :(

[dromano]

Benebob,

Hustle to St Paul and join up with the trouble makers. Since you have nothing but bad things to say about all politicians perhaps you could achieve some satisfaction by disrupting the RNC. Your negativity is unsettling. Folks, if you think this is a flame job I am sorry. I can't comprehend how one of us has so much hate for the system. Go to another place that is in sympathy with your views. Leave us to suffer in our miserable system. Either accept the good with the bad or leave or shut up.

If you don't want to hear this rhetoric then eliminate the political section of the forum.

I just can't help myself.

[dromano]

No one is trying to change anyone elses vote!!!! This is supposed to be a discussion (at times) (sometimes not) views are views, they are not always civil. Moderators: just let it go, it will work its self out. In the end we are not political friends or enemies, we are SVX fans.

How do you accept being told you are out of line when tomorrow may be your funeral? My blood is 50% Italian, I talk loud and I get emotional for little or no usual reason.

[benebob]

My negativity as many of the younger crowd is a direct result from the failings your generation and countless others has brought to this country in the political relm.

You can't understand because you will most likely not be around to see the continued decline of this great country if left to the same two parties who you no doubt voted into office.

Finally, if you have the arrogance to tell me or anybody else who has a difference of an opinion then your to shut up question my desire to be a part of the solutions that your corrupt two party system has brought us I'd be happy to come to your house and teach you the manners and respect for others that your parental unit(s) neglected to.

It isn't abour rhetoric it is about respecting one's right to FREEDOM OF SPEECH which I hold dearly. If you don't then I suppose it is you who might want to investigate a place to move land where freedom of speech isn't permitted.

Politics and manners are two different things and it seems that since you can't seperate the two I can only see you are not willing to solve the problems that our country faces. You simply want to vote for cheap gas. Last I saw UAE was charging about $.30 a gallon!



Benebob,

Hustle to St Paul and join up with the trouble makers. Since you have nothing but bad things to say about all politicians perhaps you could achieve some satisfaction by disrupting the RNC. Your negativity is unsettling. Folks, if you think this is a flame job I am sorry. I can't comprehend how one of us has so much hate for the system. Go to another place that is in sympathy with your views. Leave us to suffer in our miserable system. Either accept the good with the bad or leave or shut up.

If you don't want to hear this rhetoric then eliminate the political section of the forum.

I just can't help myself.

[newsvx]

Palin got more votes for Mayor, the last time she ran then Biden got for President in Delaware in February 2008. She is also the only one of the four to actual serve in the Executive Branch at any level. I think she'll be fine. She isn't the normal nod with the masses politician, and that's a good thing.

Royal,
She gave a tremendous (if not terribly sarcastic) speech. And I think I would like her as a person, however, saying she is qualified to be VP and perhaps president is just plain crazy. Let's see: mayor of a town of 7,000 to 10,000 people, governor of a state of 670,000 people - that makes the county commissioner of Fairfax County in N. Virginia qualified for VP / president. Not even. And commander of the Alaska National Guard equating to being ready to be Commander in Chief? Scary thought. Doesn't anyone know that a governor has little or no control over their national guard once it is called up by the feds?
Additionally, she has never had a national security clearance and therefore knows nothing about the intelligence on all of these hot spots a VP / president will need to be keenly aware of. If they gave her a clearance today (she probably already had one two or three days ago, provisionally), there is no way she will understand the ins and outs of foreign policy in a few years let alone months - I know, cause I was in that business for over 20 years in the military.
I know you didn't raise the last two issues, but many others have, as if she held Russia at bay for the last year and a half while she was governor.

BTW, with McCain not meeting the executive experience criteria along with the other two, does this say SHE should be running for president and McCain for VP? Such a false argument ...

Harry

[newsvx]

She hasn't said God is a Republican like dirtbag DNC idiots, or laugh at the prospect of 1,000's of Americans dying in another flood to stop the RNC Convention:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrBus8ORR78

There are idiots in both parties. The difference is the Republicans don't bow before their messiah. obama is getting a free ride in the media, while Palin is not. Somehow obama doing cocaine and marijuana is no big deal, however according to that POS NY Times, Palin's husband's DUI 22 years ago is important.

Hate to tell you this, but the Republicans' closing prayer last night managed to "work in" the convention's slogan, "COUNTRY FIRST". Separation of country and State should be the norm, but it is not! Even the Dems have gone after the religious vote more than ever before.

[newsvx]

Bush/Cheney/McCain didn't put off limits on 80% of the prime drilling area the environmentalist left did that for all of us. So, lets go for $20 a gallon.


Please take a close look at this map. Then print it out and place it on your fridge where you will see it every day.

Gas at $4.10 a gallon. Who's to blame

Thanks to the environmentalist lobby and its influence on legislators in Congress, the U.S. has, for decades, been prohibited from drilling for oil in places that we know contain billions of barrels of proven reserves.

Check out this map: (Sorry, I couldn't get the map to transfer, this was in an email. It shows the areas we can't drill vs the areas we can 80/20). If you would like to see the map it belongs to Senator Larry Craig, go to his site and look under energy.



All of the 'NO' zones are places where the U.S. , thanks to Congress, is prohibited from drilling for oil.



But wait . it gets better.

* China, Cuba, Canada and others continue to drill off our shores where US companies are not allowed to drill because of Congress policies!





Yes, that's right . China and Cuba are actively exploring oil fields 50 miles from Key West, Florida while U.S. companies are barred from working in this area because of U.S. policy . So, instead of allowing the most environmentally responsible companies to operate there and increase our domestic supply, China, who has a dismal environmental record, is preparing to suck our close, lucrative oil reserves dry.

Unbelievable.

Investor's Business Daily recently explained how irresponsible Congress have been on the energy crisis. They lay into what they consider to be the worst Congress ever for .

~ Failing to allow drilling in ANWR. We have, as President Bush noted, estimated capacity of a million barrels of oil a day from this source alone -- enough for 27 million gallons of gas and diesel. But Congress won't touch it, fearful of the clout of the environmental lobby. As a result, you pay through the nose at the pump so your representative can raise campaign cash.

~ Refusing to build new refineries. The U.S. hasn't built one since 1976, yet the EPA requires at least 15 unique 'boutique' fuel blends that can be sold in different areas around the nation. This means that U.S. refinery capacity is stretched so tight that even the slightest problem at a refinery causes enormous supply problems and price spikes. Congress has done nothing about this.

~ Turning its back on nuclear power. It's safe and, with advances in nuclear reprocessing technology, waste problems have been minimized. Still, we have just 104 nuclear plants -- the same as a decade ago -- producing just 19% of our total energy. (Many European nations produce 40% or more of their power with nuclear.) Granted, nuclear power plants are expensive -- about $3 billion each. But they produce energy at $1.72/kilowatt-hour vs. $2.37 for coal and $6.35 for natural gas.

~ Raising taxes on energy producers. This is where a basic understanding of economics would help: Higher taxes and needless regulation lead to less production of a commodity. So by proposing 'windfall' and other taxes on energy companies plus tough new rules, Congress only makes our energy situation worse.

These are just a few of Congress' sins of omission - - all while India, China, Eastern Europe and the Middle East are adding more than a million barrels of new demand each and every year. New Energy Department forecasts see world oil demand growing 40% by 2030, including a 28% incre ase in the U.S.

Americans who are worried about the direction of their country, including runaway energy and food prices, should keep in mind the upcoming election isn't just about choosing a new president. We'll also pick a new Congress.

Dromano,

Like Bebebob, I detest what our two party system has become. The personal attacks are beyond belief. McCain has picked up all of the bad habits that Bush / Rove used against him in 2000. Obama, out of self-defense, has now started. And no one hardly is speaking to the horrible issues / problems this country now has as a result of 8 years of the Republicans. But that said, as much as I dislike the current system, it is the best in the world I have seen, and I been to a lot of places in my life .... I want to stay and make it better, and I don't need Bust and/or Cheney to tell me I am unAmerican for fighting to make it better - BTW, I had 20 years in the military doing what the politicians demanded of me ....
But I feel the need to mention a couple of other things re your post;
- The "environmentalist" did not cause the rise in oil prices, not even. A contributing factor, however minor, perhaps. The lack of drilling off shore didn't either (BTW, Bush ONE was the one that initiated the ban). The low value of the dollar greatly contributed for all the reasons mentioned earlier. The increased consumption of China and other third world countries contributed. Probably a greater contributor is the agreements made in a "secret" meeting Cheney had a few years ago with probably big oil to establish an energy policy (he still won't tell us who attended - I wonder why?).
- I think 50 miles off our coast is international waters. Any reason the oil companies can't do the same off another country's coast? Bad argument about China, IMO.
- Yes, Congress is just as much to blame for a lack of a national energy policy as any of the above. Let's see, who controlled Congress for most of the last eight years - yep, Republicans - with a Republican president.
- Nuc energy is a must, IMO. It MUST be considered. Both McCain AND Obama support Nuc power plants. Don't be mislead by the McCain camp that Obama does not. He does! Personally, I want all of the safeguards on nuc power as we can get - there's nothing like a nuc bomb in ones backyard. And nuc waste? Better ideas are needed.
- Yep, deregulation of our energy resource, oil, is a big factor after Standard Oil. Sure has helped the price, hasn't it! Just like the deregulation of cable TV. Normal inflation of these is one thing, but have you figured the percentages?
- And yes, a new look in Congress is certain to be in Nov. There will be many more Dems in office. The Dems can't get past the veto in the Senate now, but that will change. The Republicans have had six + years and you see what it has brought us. And it is clear that the American public seeing that clear as a bell.
- And a big issue on taxes with McCain saying Obama will raise taxes for all Americans. If someone can turn off FOX and/or Limbaugh to check out http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/index.htm.they will get the accurate picture.

Sorry to go on, but I do like these discussions as long as they are sane and not nasty.
Harry

[NikFu S.]

- And a big issue on taxes with McCain saying Obama will raise taxes for all Americans. If someone can turn off FOX and/or Limbaugh to check out http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd218/newsvx/Autocross%20Aug%2031%202008/, they will get the accurate picture.

Harry

Nice pics, but I don't quite get how autocross ties in to Obama and taxes. :confused:

[Manarius]

Sigh. If only the Republicans would report facts. If they reported facts, they'd know that the OBAMA tax plan lowers taxes for most US citizens. Alas, they ignore these facts in favor of spreading lies and expecting them to stick.

Small government/low taxes my ass.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/

[newsvx]

Nice pics, but I don't quite get how autocross ties in to Obama and taxes. :confused:

Nik,
Thanks for the catch!! Sorry about that.
This is the link .. http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/index.htm. And Jason beat me to it ..... Thanks, Jason

Harry

[NikFu S.]

That settles it for me. Obama for President.

[Royal Tiger]

Royal,
She gave a tremendous (if not terribly sarcastic) speech. And I think I would like her as a person, however, saying she is qualified to be VP and perhaps president is just plain crazy. Let's see: mayor of a town of 7,000 to 10,000 people, governor of a state of 670,000 people - that makes the county commissioner of Fairfax County in N. Virginia qualified for VP / president. Not even. And commander of the Alaska National Guard equating to being ready to be Commander in Chief? Scary thought. Doesn't anyone know that a governor has little or no control over their national guard once it is called up by the feds?
Additionally, she has never had a national security clearance and therefore knows nothing about the intelligence on all of these hot spots a VP / president will need to be keenly aware of. If they gave her a clearance today (she probably already had one two or three days ago, provisionally), there is no way she will understand the ins and outs of foreign policy in a few years let alone months - I know, cause I was in that business for over 20 years in the military.
I know you didn't raise the last two issues, but many others have, as if she held Russia at bay for the last year and a half while she was governor.

BTW, with McCain not meeting the executive experience criteria along with the other two, does this say SHE should be running for president and McCain for VP? Such a false argument ...

Harry

Wow, you just summed up why Obama has no right to be President as well. And Palin is runing for VP. Somehow Obama can lean on Biden for foreign policy, even though HE is the President, but Palin as VP is a liability to the most experienced foreign policy canidate. You dems got it all figured out. :lol:

[newsvx]

Wow, you just summed up why Obama has no right to be President as well. And Palin is runing for VP. Somehow Obama can lean on Biden for foreign policy, even though HE is the President, but Palin as VP is a liability to the most experienced foreign policy canidate. You dems got it all figured out. :lol:


Royal :D Not correct regarding McCain's experience. What he has shown is poor judgement across the board. Even on the surge - have you seen Woodward's new book about the divide between the White House and the military leaders and what really made a difference in Iraq? And since Palin has so much "executive" experience (compared to the "other three), shouldn't SHE be the presidential candidate and not McCain. She certainly seems to have the abuse of power potential, doesn't she ..:lol:

Harry

[Royal Tiger]

Does she get to keep the knee high boots? Then absolutely! :D

[lhopp77]

Sigh. If only the Republicans would report facts. If they reported facts, they'd know that the OBAMA tax plan lowers taxes for most US citizens. Alas, they ignore these facts in favor of spreading lies and expecting them to stick.

Small government/low taxes my ass.



I think you must have flunked math at all levels. Just how is Obama going to finance all the things he is promising and still cut taxes? Get real.

Lee

[Manarius]

I think you must have flunked math at all levels. Just how is Obama going to finance all the things he is promising and still cut taxes? Get real.

LeeActually, it's John McCain who flunked math at all levels. 10 billion a month in Iraq and tax cuts?

That's why we have a 490bil deficit next year + Iraq spending bills.

[lhopp77]

Actually, it's John McCain who flunked math at all levels. 10 billion a month in Iraq and tax cuts?

That's why we have a 490bil deficit next year + Iraq spending bills.

Let's put this in historical perspective. The VN War cost 12 percent of GDP and this war is only costing 2 percent of GDP. As I recall it was started by a Democrat and expanded by a democrat. Don't get me wrong I supported our efforts in VN AND we had far less to lose OR gain from that war than this one.

Lee

[Manarius]

Let's put this in historical perspective. The VN War cost 12 percent of GDP and this war is only costing 2 percent of GDP. As I recall it was started by a Democrat and expanded by a democrat. Don't get me wrong I supported our efforts in VN AND we had far less to lose OR gain from that war than this one.

LeeLet's put this in historical perspective: The Vietnam War was a failure. Why? We struck first.

The Iraq war is useless. Why? We struck first for no good reason.

[Royal Tiger]

Let's put this in historical perspective: The Vietnam War was a failure. Why? We struck first.

The Iraq war is useless. Why? We struck first for no good reason.

I wouldn't call it useless, but the timetable should have been better managed from the start. Our overwhelming early success in Afghanistan sure pissed of the Russians.

[lhopp77]

Let's put this in historical perspective: The Vietnam War was a failure. Why? We struck first.

The Iraq war is useless. Why? We struck first for no good reason.

The Vietnam War was not a military failure--it was a political failure as Iraq will be IF we withdraw too soon.

Lee

[Manarius]

The Vietnam War was not a military failure--it was a political failure as Iraq will be IF we withdraw too soon.

LeeYou don't call 55000 lives wasted a failure?

Revisionist history much?

[momzsvx]

I believe Palen makes way for Condoleezza Rice to take the hot seat.

For a better America: (In my opion)
Allow one to have the decision to stand up for our country. Allow one to speak freely has become an American virus. Create a more structured system, such like punish the litter bugs like Singapore. Redefine how long a term should be in Congress and the White House, offers the ability to look centuries ahead rather then focus on matters of tomorrow. Having structure taken into consideration in our country will limit ones confusion of rights. Some Americans believe they have rights, and lack the honor and integrity to fight. Only in America Right! But that is the American way! Structure will limit free doers such as those who desire the freedom of speech, and litter on public property. If America can clean up and shape up and redefine rights, makes way for a stronger nation. China has had long term power and look at them now. They have a more structured system which allows them take advantage of what remains of the future. They are reserving oil for their military rivalry. There country will have the oil to battle we will have…..not much if any. We need to implement ways to utilize our resources for energy. As Americans we have attached to many variables in freedom which has affected the structure of our government.

[dromano]

Sigh. If only the Republicans would report facts. If they reported facts, they'd know that the OBAMA tax plan lowers taxes for most US citizens. Alas, they ignore these facts in favor of spreading lies and expecting them to stick.

Small government/low taxes my ass.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/

Conservative pundits are saying Obama's tax proposal is not a tax cut for the lowest income tax payers, it is welfare and redistribution of wealth.

[Landshark]

I believe Palen makes way for Condoleezza Rice to take the hot seat.

For a better America: (In my opion)
Allow one to have the decision to stand up for our country. Allow one to speak freely has become an American virus. Create a more structured system, such like punish the litter bugs like Singapore. Redefine how long a term should be in Congress and the White House, offers the ability to look centuries ahead rather then focus on matters of tomorrow. Having structure taken into consideration in our country will limit ones confusion of rights. Some Americans believe they have rights, and lack the honor and integrity to fight. Only in America Right! But that is the American way! Structure will limit free doers such as those who desire the freedom of speech, and litter on public property. If America can clean up and shape up and redefine rights, makes way for a stronger nation. China has had long term power and look at them now. They have a more structured system which allows them take advantage of what remains of the future. They are reserving oil for their military rivalry. There country will have the oil to battle we will have…..not much if any. We need to implement ways to utilize our resources for energy. As Americans we have attached to many variables in freedom which has affected the structure of our government.


you have completely raped and murdered the English language.


+5 for spelling "Condoleezza" right, though. :)

[Royal Tiger]

you have completely raped and murdered the English language.


+5 for spelling "Condoleezza" right, though. :)

+1

China: The beacon of the future. :D :lol:

[Phast SVX]

Memorandum to: People who post with political links

Dear person(s) who posts opinion columns to support your personal beliefs,

Has anyone told you lately you look like a tool? Posting a link and then pulling some of the more antagonistic sentences from it to claim victory seems to be the newest fad. Have you stopped to think what you realy believe in?

Sorry for the antagonism but I had to catch your heightened attention to finished the entire paragraph I have here. you know how it is, people dont read anymore, unless its angering or exciting, they skim.

I personally do not care who you vote for. But I think that if people would turn these attacks and questions upon themselves(it has to be the american people, then it can be the politicians) they would learn a lot more about what/who would be good for this country.

The art of debate, civil respective discussions which often times lead to disagreement, seems to be dead. it seems to have been replaced with people looking to the side, scooping up some mud from the internet, and then letting it fly.

~Phil

[NikFu S.]

Allow one to speak freely has become an American virus.

Your post reads as the credo of an indoctrinated Asian imported American. Are you Korean?

"Redefining rights" will be one of the many downfalls of this nation.

Government is not as important as the people it is designed to support.

[benebob]

"Redefining rights" will be one of the many downfalls of this nation.

Government is not as important as the people it is designed to support.

Ah but if Palin gets in there she'll be willing to ban the Constitution {or at least ask every librarian (at a recorded public hearing no less) if they're willing to do so as a personal "loyalty" test}from your public library rather than simply ignoring it as our current administration has done.

That's change right! Long live McCarthy!:lol:

On second thought, maybe that's the Republican comprehensive energy policy! Can't you smell the books burning already? That fire should keep us nice and toasty!:confused:

[dromano]

Memorandum to: People who post with political links

Dear person(s) who posts opinion columns to support your personal beliefs,

Has anyone told you lately you look like a tool? Posting a link and then pulling some of the more antagonistic sentences from it to claim victory seems to be the newest fad. Have you stopped to think what you realy believe in?

Sorry for the antagonism but I had to catch your heightened attention to finished the entire paragraph I have here. you know how it is, people dont read anymore, unless its angering or exciting, they skim.

I personally do not care who you vote for. But I think that if people would turn these attacks and questions upon themselves(it has to be the american people, then it can be the politicians) they would learn a lot more about what/who would be good for this country.

The art of debate, civil respective discussions which often times lead to disagreement, seems to be dead. it seems to have been replaced with people looking to the side, scooping up some mud from the internet, and then letting it fly.

~Phil

Phil,

I'm an old geezer, your assumption here is short sighted in that those of us with many years of existence don't have much use for someone elses views that do or don't support our views. The internet is an amazing place, let's all use it to learn.

[dromano]

Ah but if Palin gets in there she'll be willing to ban the Constitution {or at least ask every librarian (at a recorded public hearing no less) if they're willing to do so as a personal "loyalty" test}from your public library rather than simply ignoring it as our current administration has done.

That's change right! Long live McCarthy!:lol:

On second thought, maybe that's the Republican comprehensive energy policy! Can't you smell the books burning already? That fire should keep us nice and toasty!:confused:

Ben, you are hopeless. My generation would wipe you out for your anti-anti-anti- anarchist stance. OK, the current system sucks....both major parties are corrupt, they are only interested in being re-elected, the peoples business is not a priority to our fine legislators, the american political system is in place to provide a nice living for smart lawyers who just want to maintain their sweet slots. Can you change this? Don't think so. If you take up a position out on the fringe, how do you cause change? Is it a matter of principle? Being 35 years your senior I can't comprehend your disconnect. Sorry, guess I'm just too unprincipled.

As a self employed carpenter, do you find it easier to reject the status quo? Do you possibly not have enough connection to the main stream to have a view in keeping with most americans?????? I think I under stand your distaste of the major parties, don't understand your dislike of the system.

[Manarius]

Ah but if Palin gets in there she'll be willing to ban the Constitution {or at least ask every librarian (at a recorded public hearing no less) if they're willing to do so as a personal "loyalty" test}from your public library rather than simply ignoring it as our current administration has done.

That's change right! Long live McCarthy!:lol:

On second thought, maybe that's the Republican comprehensive energy policy! Can't you smell the books burning already? That fire should keep us nice and toasty!:confused:Long live McCarthy is right. The Republicans think that the Patriot Act is okay. That is McCarthyism through and through.

[Royal Tiger]

8 years of crying that the Constitution is being rewritten, that hard core Christian fundamentalists are going to be in the Supreme Court for 40 years, etc.... NONE of it has happened. Dems get lazy people scared to get votes, or like in 2000 and 2004 just pick up the homeless in vans and give them cartons of cigarettes for pulling the Democrat party lever. Both sides play dirty, but it's one party with a 50 year long record of shenannigans. Example? Chicago 1960. More people vote for JFK then are registered to vote in the city. Later a panel finds dead people voted for JFK since there was no mandatory ID required, something the dems TO THIS DAY are in favor of. How can you support not having voters show valid photo ID? They also have pushed for convicted felons to be given the right to vote again. Republican party has some major flaws, but no where near the dems, and a HELL of a lot less crying.

[Phast SVX]

Phil,

I'm an old geezer, your assumption here is short sighted in that those of us with many years of existence don't have much use for someone elses views that do or don't support our views. The internet is an amazing place, let's all use it to learn.

Dramano,

I do not see were I stated a contradiction as you have suggested. Please re-read my post. In fact, I said nothing to suggest the internet is a detrimental place. Just that it makes some people lazy and I feel it gives them an excuse to think even less about what they truly believe.
~Phil

[benebob]

Ben, you are hopeless. My generation would wipe you out for your anti-anti-anti- anarchist stance. OK, the current system sucks....both major parties are corrupt, they are only interested in being re-elected, the peoples business is not a priority to our fine legislators, the american political system is in place to provide a nice living for smart lawyers who just want to maintain their sweet slots. Can you change this? Don't think so. If you take up a position out on the fringe, how do you cause change? Is it a matter of principle? Being 35 years your senior I can't comprehend your disconnect. Sorry, guess I'm just too unprincipled.

As a self employed carpenter, do you find it easier to reject the status quo? Do you possibly not have enough connection to the main stream to have a view in keeping with most americans?????? I think I under stand your distaste of the major parties, don't understand your dislike of the system.

Yes we all know how "American" your generation was when it came to Naming Names. Ya'll gave eachother up! How patriotic! How HOPEFUL. HOW CLUELESS ARE YOU?

Unlike you I deplore those actions as more hurtful to this country and its Constitution as that every American no matter what they have done deserve the protections and rights spelled out in the Constitution. That is the key difference between you and I. I'd rather put faith in the civil servants to do their job of building a case legally to put away criminals and terrorists then ignore the rights of one single American.

I guess you also think that Jesus was able to reject the status quo because he was a carpenter:confused:. I don't reject the status quo one bit, I hold myself and my country to a higher standard rather than settling for what we have.

On the other hand make some pretty good arguements for how bad this country's political system is and what is wrong with it. Then you ignore the past 75 years of the downward spirial both parties have left us with and fall into their trap of "Change" will bring you to the promised land. Change will not come from either of these parties as they do not want change. They won't get rich of change. The only thing they want is your vote and sadly, your more than happy to give it to 'em.

FYI there are now more independents then Democrats and Republicans so if you want to lump me into to the "Self thinkers and Self voters" rather than the brainwashed few that is just fine. That would also be the Status Quo side. I like more Americans do reject the "fringe party lines" just as I reject anyone telling me what books I can read!

I don't need a political party to tell me what to think, tell me how to act, tell me what to do, tell me what I can say or tell me how to vote. I guess that's too disconnected too fringe for a free thinker such as yourself:rolleyes:

What change am I looking for that you seem to think I want? The only change I want to see is people voting for the best canidate for office rather the recycled crap the democrats and republicans run every 2, 4 or 6 years. If McCain was such a savior why didn't he win 8 years ago? I guess he just isn't as good as George W. Bush?

When did I ever say that I dislike the "system"? FYI I work for the system.:lol:. One who lives in glass houses though shouldn't throw stone!

OK, the current system sucks....both major parties are corrupt, they are only interested in being re-elected, the peoples business is not a priority to our fine legislators, the american political system is in place to provide a nice living for smart lawyers who just want to maintain their sweet slots.

Change comes via individuals and their principles not by poltical parties. Voting for these parties IMO (unless you truely belive in a "person" running) is nothing more supporting the corruption they love. I know I won't vote for someone who like John McCain or Barack Obama is satisfied being a member of a corrupt part! One must look at the mirror first when trying to solve problems.

[rrhenderson]

Hey dere, everyone. I wish we had a Sarah Palin in Canada to give us our guns back. The gun control loonies here have practically disarmed us now into sitting ducks.

Anyway, here is an approximate 6 minute video blog about Sarah Palin by Jackie Mason, the world's funniest comedian.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DjDlN6clIo&feature=user

[NikFu S.]

Hey dere, everyone. I wish we had a Sarah Palin in Canada to give us our guns back. The gun control loonies here have practically disarmed us now into sitting ducks.

Anyway, here is an approximate 6 minute video blog about Sarah Palin by Jackie Mason, the world's funniest comedian.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DjDlN6clIo&feature=user

He makes a good point, and the idea of bombing Arkansas is now funny.

[dromano]

I will vote for McCain. Obama is the most unknown figure since Bustamonte!!!!

[benebob]

I will vote for McCain. Obama is the most unknown figure since Bustamonte!!!!

Shocking.:rolleyes: How can you look at your children while you steal from them:confused:.

[Royal Tiger]

Shocking.:rolleyes: How can you look at your children while you steal from them:confused:.

Like the messiah is any better. ALL politicans are crooks, including Barak Hussein Obama. What it comes down to is issues that you believe in. Your inability to grasp that no matter what you say will not change anyone's mind, while continuing your attempts to sound intelligent by insulting others is shocking. Is McCain perfect? Hell no. I also think he was the better choice in 2000, but the hard core right was desperate to go deep right after 8 years of deep left clinton and McCain's mostly center approach wasn't going to fly. McCain is shrewd, so he began softing his hard center stance and got in this time by appeasing the right. This also hurt him with the left and center who thought him balanced. The dems come back with another deep lefty. I can not support someone who thinks the UN is the greatest achievement of man in the 20th Century. Tying us to that corrupt organization even further then we already are is a disaster in waiting. I don't agree with everything McCain does, but more then I agree with Obama. That's what 2008 boils down to. Who represents your values. All the negative BS on TV is disgusting. Stick to the issues. Politcal ads should be banned from TV, but then 60% of Americans who have no idea what actually happens in the world would be lost.

[benebob]

Like the messiah is any better.

Never said he was as I don't think he is.

What it comes down to is issues that you believe in.

I said that pages ago. If you believe in someone like McCain who has completely done a 180 from his 2000 run then he's your cameleon. If you don't then vote for someone you believe in. Lets just follow Sarah Palin's idea of having a loyalty test by burning that Constitution you've sworn to protect. Good choice.

Your inability to grasp that no matter what you say will not change anyone's mind, while continuing your attempts to sound intelligent by insulting others is shocking.

I'll borrow from your friend as far as insults goSHUT UP!LOL Royal!. I've never insulted anyone personally, I simple insult their poor judgement for the future of this country or the hypocrisism of someone who posts "WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT PALIN?" then is offended that others read her for the book burning, pathetic mother that she is. Would you have your 4 month old at a convention until the wee hours of the night so you can use him as a prop? Didn't think so as I know where your ideals are. I now know where hers are and they are simply SCARY!

Is McCain perfect? Hell no. I also think he was the better choice in 2000, but the hard core right was desperate to go deep right after 8 years of deep left clinton and McCain's mostly center approach wasn't going to fly. McCain is shrewd, so he began softing his hard center stance and got in this time by appeasing the right. This also hurt him with the left and center who thought him balanced. The dems come back with another deep lefty.

He must be a Boy George fan. Comma, comma, comma cameleon! I think that'll be his song!:lol:

You're simply stating why the parties need to go, so obviously you're listening. My iprinciples aren't different than many others. I simply am willing to stand by them rather than settle for someone who couldn't even muster the votes to beat the least popular sitting president in history. What color will he be next week?

The dems come back with another deep lefty. I can not support someone who thinks the UN is the greatest achievement of man in the 20th Century. Tying us to that corrupt organization even further then we already are is a disaster in waiting.

Why must you continue to associate me with this non-issue canidate. I've already stated I've given to 4 presidential campains this year. 1 Republican and 3 "Others". Last I checked Barrack wasn't an other!

I don't agree with everything McCain does, but more then I agree with Obama. That's what 2008 boils down to. Who represents your values.

I'd suggest you look at Bob. Then you'll see who represents your values. I'm not even sure what McCain represents anymore as he seems to represent everything and nothing all at once by changing himself to get votes. I know I don't want another poll president.

All the negative BS on TV is disgusting. Stick to the issues. Politcal ads should be banned from TV, but then 60% of Americans who have no idea what actually happens in the world would be lost.

I know I've not seen a negative ad by any of the canidates I've supported. If you don't like it why the hell do you support it?

[lhopp77]

You want change??? The OFFICIAL DEMOCRATIC TICKET (HusseinObama/Biden) CAR

Love it!!! ;)

Lee

[Noir]

I think it's fantastic
A woman who won't take my guns away running with a man who won't take my guns away.

mmm....guns.....

[NikFu S.]

I can not support someone who thinks the UN is the greatest achievement of man in the 20th Century. Tying us to that corrupt organization even further then we already are is a disaster in waiting.

Fantastic reason not to vote for Obama.

[anthonybuchanan]

Look, McCain, being the war man he is, just wants to get more kids killed in Iraq. Its in his blood. He is not a patriot at all but what some call a "free agent" that does really love his country. I see right thru him. A spades a spade.

McCain also wants to see more American wages decrease further and further.

McCain and Bush are in the pockets of China an love it.

Palin and her husband are then, without McCain being aware of it, going seceed Alaska from the US making it another oil rich nation.

Trust me, Palin and her husband are not interested in American properity.

[Royal Tiger]

McCain and Bush are in the pockets of China an love it.



:lol:

Short memory. It was clinton and gore who took Red Chinese money and let them into the Whitehouse. If Truman or Eisenhower knew there were Communists sleeping in the Lincoln bedroom they would have rolled over in their graves.

You know nothing about what you are saying. Step away from the keyboard.

[RSVX]

Look, McCain, being the war man he is, just wants to get more kids killed in Iraq. Its in his blood. He is not a patriot at all but what some call a "free agent" that does really love his country. I see right thru him. A spades a spade.

McCain also wants to see more American wages decrease further and further.

McCain and Bush are in the pockets of China an love it.

Palin and her husband are then, without McCain being aware of it, going seceed Alaska from the US making it another oil rich nation.

Trust me, Palin and her husband are not interested in American properity.

And you know nothing about the English language.

[benebob]

:lol:

Short memory. It was clinton and gore who took Red Chinese money and let them into the Whitehouse. If Truman or Eisenhower knew there were Communists sleeping in the Lincoln bedroom they would have rolled over in their graves.

You know nothing about what you are saying. Step away from the keyboard.


Short memory there Royal? I think you'd need to go back a few years to one of our greatest presidents of the last 50 years. Nixon is the one who started it all. Since then the Chinese have been making steady inroads each new election.

Guess you should step away from that keyboard too!:rolleyes:

[Royal Tiger]

benebob,

Both parties need to get their act together. Whoever wins needs to deport pelosi as she is the man behind the curtain who will ensure the down fall of the republic.

Here is a brief synopsys of what I belief in:

The 2nd Amendment - Advantage McCain
No more US involvement in the UN - Advantage McCain
Pro Choice - Advantage Obama
Pro Death Penalty - Advantage McCain
Less dependancy on foriegn oil - Both say it, but Advantage Obama
Lower the deficit and balance the budget - Advantage Obama
A pressence in Iraq, but a phased withdrawl - Neither
A fair minimum wage and benefits - Advantage Obama
Against universal healthcare - Advantage McCain
Favor reduction in welfare and time limits - Advantage McCain
Favor more restrictions on corporate "windfalls" - Advantage Obama
Protect the enviroment - Advantage Obama
Enforce minimum standards for teachers - Advantage McCain
Lessen the restricitions in the Posse Comitatus Act - Advantage McCain
Push for tax breaks only to companies that employ Americans - Advantage Obama
Increase production of low sulpher diesel so we can get cars Europe gets - Advantage McCain
Increase penalties for fraud and identity theft - Advantage Obama
Bill of Rights legislation for law enforcement personnel - Advantage Obama
Nationwide carry for legal permit holders - Advantage McCain
Regulation of national utilities to ensure federal compliance - Advantage Obama
Maximize Social Security to ensure benefits earned are honored - Advantage Obama
Maintain minimum manning in the Armed Services and resist downsizing - Advantage McCain
Increase funding to the CIA and FBI - Advantage McCain
Restrict travel to those on the FBI Watch list - Advantage McCain

As you can see it's close, so don't call me a GOP lap dog.

[Royal Tiger]

Short memory there Royal? I think you'd need to go back a few years to one of our greatest presidents of the last 50 years. Nixon is the one who started it all. Since then the Chinese have been making steady inroads each new election.

Guess you should step away from that keyboard too!:rolleyes:

Nixon opened the door for trade, which is a far cry from illegal election contributions and having Chinese sleep in the White House.

[benebob]

Nixon opened the door for trade, which is a far cry from illegal election contributions and having Chinese sleep in the White House.

Sure but it was a steady march to the whitehouse under Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush. I'm quite certain that each of the others received the same illegal election contributions, Bill just got his hand caught reading his fortune cookie.

[benebob]

benebob,

Increase production of low sulpher diesel so we can get cars Europe gets - Advantage McCain


You do realize that you don't get much diesel from a barrel of oil and by increasing demand here for diesel will result in less diesel being shipped to Europe (which in turn will lead to less gas being shipped here from Europe) resulting in higher global prices for both gas and diesel. As much as I'd like a common rail diesel that isn't made by VW the advantages are offset by the disadvantages currently.

Now if there was renewed interest in expanding rail shipping and taking the 18 wheelers off the road the situation might be different. I don't think Americans are willing to wait for their ebay crap to arrive a week later though.

[lhopp77]

I think everyone should take a deep breath, back up and check the polls today. Verrry interesssssting.

Lee

[Royal Tiger]

You do realize that you don't get much diesel from a barrel of oil and by increasing demand here for diesel will result in less diesel being shipped to Europe (which in turn will lead to less gas being shipped here from Europe) resulting in higher global prices for both gas and diesel. As much as I'd like a common rail diesel that isn't made by VW the advantages are offset by the disadvantages currently.

Now if there was renewed interest in expanding rail shipping and taking the 18 wheelers off the road the situation might be different. I don't think Americans are willing to wait for their ebay crap to arrive a week later though.

That's a good point. Too many damn trucks on I-78 and I-83 anyway.

[benebob]

I think everyone should take a deep breath, back up and check the polls today. Verrry interesssssting.

Lee

Its just doing what I said it would all along. America isn't ready to elect a black man or woman to the presidency hence the non factor for Barrack I've been saying for nearly a year. The closer it gets and the more pulse that McCain shows he still has it'll swing more and more towards his favor. If you look back I said nearly a year ago that the first woman or black president will likely be from the Republican Party not the Democrats. Its a simple anaylisis of the voting patterns and polling of the roughly 10% of Americans that willingly admit they wouldn't vote for a black man or any woman for president no matter how qualified they were.

They split party lines almost 50-50 but the Democrats and moderates would more likely vote Republican if the Democrats put either a black man or a woman out there. The Republicans would simply stay home and not vote for either party.

[benebob]

That's a good point. Too many damn trucks on I-78 and I-83 anyway.

The downside to getting the trucks off though is we'll loose our famous status as the state with the worst roads!:lol:

[dromano]

Shocking.:rolleyes: How can you look at your children while you steal from them:confused:.

Quite simple, I have no children, a choice I made 40 years ago. You however compromise all around you, you are menace, plain and simple....

[dromano]

Look, McCain, being the war man he is, just wants to get more kids killed in Iraq. Its in his blood. He is not a patriot at all but what some call a "free agent" that does really love his country. I see right thru him. A spades a spade.

McCain also wants to see more American wages decrease further and further.

McCain and Bush are in the pockets of China an love it.

Palin and her husband are then, without McCain being aware of it, going seceed Alaska from the US making it another oil rich nation.

Trust me, Palin and her husband are not interested in American properity.

You sir, are an IDIOT!!!!!

[benebob]

Quite simple, I have no children, a choice I made 40 years ago. You however compromise all around you, you are menace, plain and simple....

Then I guess the ME, ME, ME politics of both the parties suit you well. It makes sense why you and both parties don't care about the future of this country as much as today.:rolleyes:

Politics were once about the future, not how much politicians could steal from the country to give to their voters. I guess though you really are voting with your heart. A greedy heart but at least your honest. I can respect that! May things turn out the way you want!

[Royal Tiger]

The downside to getting the trucks off though is we'll loose our famous status as the state with the worst roads!:lol:

I thought Michigan had that title with us coming up fast?

[immortal_suby]

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q83/immortal_suby/Inbox2.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q83/immortal_suby/Inbox.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q83/immortal_suby/Inbox3.jpg

[Royal Tiger]

I would be her intern in a second!

[ensteele]

+5 :d :d :d

[JaySVX]

mmm... politics.

It is a pretty bizarre race. McCain didn't have a real opponent until the Clinton/Obama fight got settled, so he was just off on his own. Advantage: Obama. He had all that time where McCain was off making his speeches and such to study him, gauge the public's responses, and counter. Now that it's just Obama, most everything said before between him and Clinton is forgotten, and he starts a clean slate, with all this info. And somehow McCain is still going to bury him. :D

Benebob, I've been saying the same as you for the past year. The US is simply not ready for a woman president or a black president (argue he's not black all you want. people see what they see.). However, McCain has some good policies, and isn't going to sink the country trying to micro-manage like Obama seems to be trying to do.

Sarah Palin may not have been the best running mate for McCain, I almost think it was a last ditch effort to get those millions of votes that were going towards clinton based on the fact that she's a woman. However, she seriously seems to lack tact, and is boorish/brash for the position, which you really can't be. Down to earth? That's neat. However, that's not the perspective of a true leader. It lacks the command power. If she walked into a room of people already chatting away, and started talking, I wouldn't pay her any attention, nor would most others. It's because she lacks the ability to command an audience. Does she have some good ideas? Sure. Does she have firm beliefs and is not afraid to share them? Absolutely. So what's wrong? My guess would be, not enough time in the big leagues, not to mention a bit to feminine. She shouldn't be a sex symbol being that high in the political world. I mean, how do you not just want to do inappropriate things all over a face like that?

John McCain is a powerful man. He has an aurora about him that radiates the demand for respect. Taking him seriously in whatever he says is your first impression. He speaks what he feels. Granted I may not believe in absolutely everything he stands for, but at least I know where he stands. Obama, I have a hard time even trusting, he’s flipped back and forth on many things many times, his mind changes with the wind. Thanks, but I’ll have to pass on that, in favor of a guy who is a majority of what I’m looking for.

[lhopp77]

Look, McCain, being the war man he is, just wants to get more kids killed in Iraq. Its in his blood. He is not a patriot at all but what some call a "free agent" that does really love his country. I see right thru him. A spades a spade.



Last time I checked it seemed that every single soldier, airman, sailor, marine serving in Iraq is a volunteer. Doesn't that they mean chose to be there??? AND, the vast majority of them believe in and fully support what they are doing.

Take the blinders off.................:rolleyes:

They are the true patriots--not pinkos like you. :p

Lee

[Manarius]

Last time I checked it seemed that every single soldier, airman, sailor, marine serving in Iraq is a volunteer. Doesn't that they mean chose to be there??? AND, the vast majority of them believe in and fully support what they are doing.

Take the blinders off.................:rolleyes:

They are the true patriots--not pinkos like you. :p

LeeAnd John McCain's foreign policies are the kind that will take that "volunteer" army and turn it to a drafted one. Especially with his "shoot first, ask questions later" cowboy diplomacy.

This country can't afford more wars. We just can't. With John McCain in office, war is something that will loom.

[newsvx]

Last time I checked it seemed that every single soldier, airman, sailor, marine serving in Iraq is a volunteer. Doesn't that they mean chose to be there??? AND, the vast majority of them believe in and fully support what they are doing.

Take the blinders off.................:rolleyes:

They are the true patriots--not pinkos like you. :p

Lee

Lee,
Having retired from the military, I think you are the one with blinders. Our troops (whether volunteers or drafted) will usually follow orders regardless if they believe in the mission or not. And just because they are a volunteer, it does not mean they 1) want to be there or 2) believe we should be there.
And I beg you to not refer to anyone as a "pinko" just because they disagree with our government. That harkins back to the Bush administration where their attitude was, "You are either with us or against us". A very sad state of affairs in our history.
Harry

[Royal Tiger]

I thought that was funny. Eh.

I chose to serve and was ready to deply to the mid east when they sent me to Texas instead for leadership school. Then I signed up for another deployment that was later taken from the Reserves and given to the Guard. Most people I know that went said they would go back. What's that tell you? Nothing you'll hear a democrat admit.

[NikFu S.]

I think I've said this before, but everyone I know who re-deploys does it for the money.

[Royal Tiger]

I think I've said this before, but everyone I know who re-deploys does it for the money.

Nothing Un-American about that. This is a free market Country. How's that saying go, For Love or Money?

[newsvx]

Okay, it has finally come to this!!

Message from Her Majesty the Queen



To the citizens of the United States of America from Her Sovereign Majesty
Queen Elizabeth II

In light of your failure in recent years (to include THIS year) to nominate competent candidates
for President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give
notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately.
Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over
all states, commonwealths, and territories (except Kansas, which she does
not fancy).
Your new Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, will appoint a Governor for America
without the need for further elections.
Congress and the Senate will be disbanded.

A questionnaire may be circulated next year to determine whether any of you
noticed.
To aid in the transition to a British Crown dependency,the following rules
are introduced with immediate effect:
(You should look up 'revocation' in the Oxford English Dictionary.)
1. Then look up aluminium, and check the pronunciation guide. You will be
amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it.
2. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'colour', 'favour',
'labour' and 'neighbour.' Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut'
without skipping half the letters, and the suffix '-ize' will be replaced by
the suffix '-ise' Generally, you will be expected to raise your vocabulary
to acceptable levels. (look up 'vocabulary').
3. Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noises such as
'like' and 'you know' is an unacceptable and inefficient form of
communication. There is no such thing as US English. We will let M*crosoft
know on your behalf. The M*crosoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take
into account the reinstated letter 'u' and the elimination of -ize.
4. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday.

5. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers, or
therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that
you're not quite ready to be independent. Guns should only be used for
shooting grouse. If you can't sort things out without suing someone or
speaking to a therapist then you're not ready to shoot grouse.
6. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more
dangerous than a vegetable peeler. Although a permit will be required if you
wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.

7. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start
driving on the left side with immediate effect. At the same time, you will
go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion
tables.
Both roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense
of humour.

8. The former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have been
calling gasoline) of roughly $10/US gallon. Get used to it.
9. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are
not real chips, and those things you insist on calling potato chips are
properly called crisps. Real chips are thick cut, fried in animal fat, and
dressed not with catsup but with vinegar.
10 The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer
at all Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will be referred to as beer,
and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as
Lager. South African beer is also acceptable as they are pound for pound the
greatest sporting nation on earth and it can only be due to the beer. They
are also part of the British Commonwealth - see what it did for them.
American brands will be referred to as Near-FrozenGnat's Urine, so that all
can be sold without risk of further confusion.
11. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as good
guys. Hollywood will also be required to cast English actors to play English
characters. Watching Andie MacDowell attempt English dialogue in 'Four
Weddings and a Funeral' was an experience akin to having one's ears removed
with a cheese grater.

12. You will cease playing American football. There is only one kind of
proper football; you call it soccer. Those of you brave enough will, in
time, be allowed to play rugby (which has some similarities to American
football, but does not involve stopping for a rest everytwenty seconds or
wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nancies). Don't try rugby -
the South Africans and Kiwis will thrash you, like they regularly thrash us.
13. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an
event called the World Series for a game which is not played outside of
America. Since only 2.1% of you are aware there is a world beyond your
borders, your error is understandable. You will learn cricket, and we will
let you face the South Africans first to take the sting out of their
deliveries.

14. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us mad.

15. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax collector) from Her Majesty's
Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all monies
due (backdated to 1776).
16. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 pm with proper cups, with saucers,
and never mugs, with high quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes; plus
strawberries (with cream) when in season.

God Save the Queen!

:lol::lol:

[lhopp77]

Wouldn't that be about the worst thing you could imagine??????????? Well, except maybe Obama being elected. :) :p

Oh, and many posts are not worthy of further comment. ;)

Lee

[NikFu S.]

Nothing Un-American about that. This is a free market Country. How's that saying go, For Love or Money?

Where I'm from it's "For the love of money". ;)

It's not un-American at all but it's not exactly patriotic or honorable which is also fine with me, but the way people spin a soldiers life into some heroic tale makes me sick.
Sure there are heroes, but they are far and few between.

[ensteele]

Where I'm from it's "For the love of money". ;)

It's not un-American at all but it's not exactly patriotic or honorable which is also fine with me, but the way people spin a soldiers life into some heroic tale makes me sick.
Sure there are heroes, but they are far and few between.

Have you ever served in the military? :o

[newsvx]

Have you ever served in the military? :o

Earl,
Good question, and I would guess, "Probably not".

Harry

[RSVX]

Where I'm from it's "For the love of money". ;)

It's not un-American at all but it's not exactly patriotic or honorable which is also fine with me, but the way people spin a soldiers life into some heroic tale makes me sick.
Sure there are heroes, but they are far and few between.

You know WHY they do it for the money? Because the pay is ALREADY SH!T. How do I know? Been there done that.

Try working in a career as demanding and dangerous as the military and after 8 years of your life you are only making slightly over $30,000 (Enlisted). Think about it.

When I was in, I happily deployed to Persian Gulf regions because I believed in what we were doing, the extra money was a bonus. Most of the people (90%) had the same mindset as me.

Have you ever served in the military? :o

I know, right?

Earl,
Good question, and I would guess, "Probably not".

Harry

Definitely not.

[ensteele]

Earl,
Good question, and I would guess, "Probably not".

Harry

That says it all when it comes to his remarks about the pay and why they do it. If he knew how much I got in the 70s, he would be shocked. :o Then again, probably not. :(

[Noir]

Last time I checked it seemed that every single soldier, airman, sailor, marine serving in Iraq is a volunteer. Doesn't that they mean chose to be there??? AND, the vast majority of them believe in and fully support what they are doing.

Take the blinders off.................:rolleyes:

They are the true patriots--not pinkos like you. :p

Lee

Every night I pray that the next world war comes quickly. I want to sign up and be a true patriot. Bombing our foes with the high likely hood of real retaliation would be very exciting. The Iraq War is cool but the sporadic exchange of gunfire and the lack of body parts littering the bloodied streets makes it boring . I think we should agitate Russia, China, and Iran and force them into forming a coalition against us. :)

If we can turn the pinko's to patriots, we can bring peace to this world through domination.

I can't wait.

[dromano]

That says it all when it comes to his remarks about the pay and why they do it. If he knew how much I got in the 70s, he would be shocked. :o Then again, probably not. :(

Try the 60's, as an E6 the most in one year was 4416. That's 368 a month.
While in Viet Nam there was an extra 50 a month. The real good news: beer was 10 cents:)

[ensteele]

The Iraq War is cool but the sporadic exchange of gunfire and the lack of body parts littering the bloodied streets makes it boring.

I don't think you have been watching this very closely. The suicide bombers have kept the body parts flying for quite some time now. :(

[NikFu S.]

Have you ever served in the military? :o

Are you implying that if I had, I would know who the secret heroes are, or that I wouldn't mind that label being thrown around like it's a sticker from a cracker jack box?

I didn't enlist despite my childhood pro-war beliefs and the majority of my family's history of "service" because I believed at the time (17 y.o.) that was a road for people with no other options. Both my parents and all their siblings who served 20 years are barely scraping their way into the middle class. You can never convince me that it takes something special to be a soldier, especially not for a measly 4-8 years. Violent aggressive behavior is human nature and humans also happen to be smart. Anyone with an IQ above 90 can do it.

You know what else? No one in my family ever says "Oh hey why won't YOU join the Army/Air Force like your mom/dad/step-dads/uncles/aunt/grandpas?"
Nobody I know has this elitist view like it somehow makes you a better person because they know better. I know better. I know not to judge people by their profession because it means very little. You don't know what one single person really thinks much less 90% of everyone. It's not possible.

Interestingly, when I asked my (gun-loving, family-raising) brothers whom were raised on the opposite side of the country from me, 13 years after I last saw them, this question of why, their answer was the same as mine. We don't believe in the system and there are no more heroes.

--
Oh, and, uh, I'll see you guys on the flightline. Incidentally I'm going on base today, like every Thursday for the past 2 years.

You know, to meet heroes.

[Noir]

I don't think you have been watching this very closely. The suicide bombers have kept the body parts flying for quite some time now. :(

I'm sorry Earl, I was looking more for more parts kind of like in the streets of Hong Kong. Tongues, livers, intestines, cow toes, chicken heads, etc. ;)

[Noir]

Are you implying that if I had, I would know who the secret heroes are, or that I wouldn't mind that label being thrown around like it's a sticker from a cracker jack box?

You know, to meet heroes.

Don't take this the wrong way hero, but you do look surprisingly well in a purplish-pink outfit.... :)

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/WarriorMarikus/Barney.jpg

[RSVX]

You don't know what one single person really thinks much less 90% of everyone. It's not possible.

90% of the people I knew... nowhere did I say "everyone".

[NikFu S.]

I don't get the Barney picture.
Most of the people (90%) had the same mindset as me.

I think we can agree this statement is a bit vague.

[RSVX]

I don't get the Barney picture.


I think we can agree this statement is a bit vague.

Yes, it is... I would hope that you would think that I wouldn't be so careless to think I knew what everyone thought...

[newsvx]

You know WHY they do it for the money? Because the pay is ALREADY SH!T. How do I know? Been there done that.

Try working in a career as demanding and dangerous as the military and after 8 years of your life you are only making slightly over $30,000 (Enlisted). Think about it.

When I was in, I happily deployed to Persian Gulf regions because I believed in what we were doing, the extra money was a bonus. Most of the people (90%) had the same mindset as me.



I know, right?



Definitely not.

How about $76 a month in 1966?? !! :eek:

Harry

[newsvx]

Are you implying that if I had, I would know who the secret heroes are, or that I wouldn't mind that label being thrown around like it's a sticker from a cracker jack box?

I didn't enlist despite my childhood pro-war beliefs and the majority of my family's history of "service" because I believed at the time (17 y.o.) that was a road for people with no other options. Both my parents and all their siblings who served 20 years are barely scraping their way into the middle class. You can never convince me that it takes something special to be a soldier, especially not for a measly 4-8 years. Violent aggressive behavior is human nature and humans also happen to be smart. Anyone with an IQ above 90 can do it.

You know what else? No one in my family ever says "Oh hey why won't YOU join the Army/Air Force like your mom/dad/step-dads/uncles/aunt/grandpas?"
Nobody I know has this elitist view like it somehow makes you a better person because they know better. I know better. I know not to judge people by their profession because it means very little. You don't know what one single person really thinks much less 90% of everyone. It's not possible.

Interestingly, when I asked my (gun-loving, family-raising) brothers whom were raised on the opposite side of the country from me, 13 years after I last saw them, this question of why, their answer was the same as mine. We don't believe in the system and there are no more heroes.

--
Oh, and, uh, I'll see you guys on the flightline. Incidentally I'm going on base today, like every Thursday for the past 2 years.

You know, to meet heroes.

You know, I think you totally underestimate today's soldier. There is MUCH more than simply carrying a rifle and pulling the trigger. The high tect arena is amazing - was even 20 years ago when I retired. And like even civilian life, a military carreer is what you make of it. One, you can rise to the top in the enlisted ranks (ever met a Sgt Major?) or even go to officer candidate school and become an officer. And in the intelligence field, 90 % of the civilian populace could not do it. While you say you don't judge a person's carreer, you certainly did with the military - and quite frankly, you haven't a clue what you are talking about.....

Harry

[lhopp77]

How about $68 per month when I joined (yes I went in as a private)? But by the time I retired and at my rank at the time--the pay was respectable (the retirement is respectable too). :p I still have a lot, and I mean a LOT of respect for the average enlisted man that sacrifices so very much for some pretty low pay. Contrary to what Nikyfooey says, it WAS NOT the last option for most of the men. I do agree with not pushing others to join--I never pushed either of my sons even though both served.

As to the personality or psychological makeup of the soldier---give me an thinking person that is afraid, but that can control the fear---that makes the best soldier under fire. AND frequently produces a very unassuming and unintended hero.

An overly aggressive soldier with no fear--will get himself and his buddies killed.

Just my opinion.

Lee

[newsvx]

How about $68 per month when I joined (yes I went in as a private)? But by the time I retired and at my rank at the time--the pay was respectable (the retirement is respectable too). :p I still have a lot, and I mean a LOT of respect for the average enlisted man that sacrifices so very much for some pretty low pay. Contrary to what Nikyfooey says, it WAS NOT the last option for most of the men. I do agree with not pushing others to join--I never pushed either of my sons even though both served.

As to the personality or psychological makeup of the soldier---give me an thinking person that is afraid, but that can control the fear---that makes the best soldier under fire. AND frequently produces a very unassuming and unintended hero.

An overly aggressive soldier with no fear--will get himself and his buddies killed.

Just my opinion.

Lee

Lee,
With the salary differential, you are obviously "older than me" :lol:.

And I agree with all that you said there!!......
Harry

[NikFu S.]

You know, I think you totally underestimate today's soldier. There is MUCH more than simply carrying a rifle and pulling the trigger. The high tect arena is amazing - was even 20 years ago when I retired.
Harry

I think it is you who underestimates the average young person of this generation. Everything you call amazing we take for granted, and rightly so...

[newsvx]

I think it is you who underestimates the average young person of this generation. Everything you call amazing we take for granted, and rightly so...

Sorry, but you are still demonstrating you don't have a clue. After I retired in 1986 from the Army, I started a second carreer in the defense industry. As a result, my info is quite current. It appears that you have no idea of the technology our troops work with on a daily basis ....
The average person could not do what our troop do today.

Harry

[NikFu S.]

Sounds elitist. Define "average person".
Also, quantify your experience with "average people" and compare it to non-average people.

[newsvx]

Sounds elitist. Define "average person".
Also, quantify your experience with "average people" and compare it to non-average people.

Nik,
Seems you are defining it with every post. And I refer you to one of your statements, "You can never convince me that it takes something special to be a soldier, especially not for a measly 4-8 years. "
I do think it takes something special to be a soldier in today's armed forces. It is "safe" to take a civilian job (depending on the job, of course), but it is something else all together to sign up for the military knowing you could be putting you life on the line for those that don't. That, to me, is indeed something special. I am sure you will disagree, but if you have ever had someone you had to totally depend on and he / she on you, then you would understand. And BTW, I don't even expect everyone to understand and appreciate that.
Harry

[NikFu S.]

I'm interpreting your rather evasive answer as "people who enlist have guts, and nobody else does."

There are countless other jobs where people's lives are on the line. I don't see that as a defining attribute of a soldier.

[newsvx]

I'm interpreting your rather evasive answer as "people who enlist have guts, and nobody else does."

There are countless other jobs where people's lives are on the line. I don't see that as a defining attribute of a soldier.

Nik,
Guts has nothing to do with it. It's called service to your country and/or others ...... And not too many people today are willing to do that. We are, unfortunately, in the "what's in it for me" era .....:(

[NikFu S.]

I TOTALLY agree with you on that point. My whole family agrees with you.

The difference between you and I here is that I feel I can do much greater good whilst not blowing someone's head off from 500 yards. I don't recall what turned me from having a pro-war, "just nuke them all" attitude into a "just leave them alone" mentality, but I guarantee you my loyalty to my country and passion for it's people can not be overshadowed by even the burliest man, can not be quieted by the most thunderous of voices, or overpowered by the most determined force.

I

can't

equate

what someone has chosen for a job

as the sole basis for determining that person's commitment

to anything, just because that job has employed a long history of committed people.

[newsvx]

I TOTALLY agree with you on that point. My whole family agrees with you.

The difference between you and I here is that I feel I can do much greater good whilst not blowing someone's head off from 500 yards. I don't recall what turned me from having a pro-war, "just nuke them all" attitude into a "just leave them alone" mentality, but I guarantee you my loyalty to my country and passion for it's people can not be overshadowed by even the burliest man, can not be quieted by the most thunderous of voices, or overpowered by the most determined force.

I

can't

equate

what someone has chosen for a job

as the sole basis for determining that person's commitment

to anything, just because that job has employed a long history of committed people.

Nik,
I don't think I ever questioned your loyalty to our country. And I never would - that is a major sour point with the Bush administration. They view everyone as either for or against them, and if you were not on the same sheet, then you were unpatiotic. But I thought we were addressing the soldiers' committment to their job in the military.
I commend you for doing good things for your community - there are lots of ways to support one's country, as I am sure you are finding out. My point, probably not well articulated is that not enough people today (both young and old) give back to society. More needs to be done.
Harry

[NikFu S.]

To dispel any confusion, I think my major key points in their simplest form are:


I currently hold an anti-war stance on the world (not just the US)
not all soldiers are heroes (the term loses value when applied to a broad spectrum)
Most people do have the capacity to accomplish what the elite few have done (it's a matter of training and motivation)


I'll throw in my definition of hero which is admittedly very narrow.

Someone who is not required to but willingly risks their own safety to preserve the immediate safety of another person, meaning someone who is in imminent danger of extreme physical harm. I will also extend my definition to include instead of a person, an item or structure of extreme value, for example a tall building, a major dam, a supply barge, something that could inconvenience thousands of people.

[Landshark]

I don't recall what turned me from having a pro-war, "just nuke them all" attitude into a "just leave them alone" mentality, but I guarantee you my loyalty to my country and passion for it's people can not be overshadowed by even the burliest man, can not be quieted by the most thunderous of voices, or overpowered by the most determined force.



:lol: :lol: :lol:

WTF? are you some sort of emo poet now? :lol:

wait, let me try....

"although i often cry rainbows - the surliest, horsiest Noir could not restrain my laughter now, nor could it be run over by a most mighty pickup truck, or even a proud angry gorilla."

[shelfy]

"although i often cry rainbows - the surliest, horsiest Noir could not restrain my laughter now, nor could it be run over by a most mighty pickup truck, or even a proud angry gorilla."

LMAO!!!!!!

[NikFu S.]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

WTF? are you some sort of emo poet now? :lol:

wait, let me try....

"although i often cry rainbows - the surliest, horsiest Noir could not restrain my laughter now, nor could it be run over by a most mighty pickup truck, or even a proud angry gorilla."

No, I just figured I had to give you an opportunity to do what you do best. If I can't do it, who can?
I didn't want you to feel left out of the big boy discussion.

[Royal Tiger]

I served my country in the reserves from 1994-2005 (including 18 months active following 9/11) and serve my populace as a Police Officer from 1996, and now a Sergeant since 2005. I have run into burning buildings, been shot at and have saved lives, while not yet ever having to take one. I have no qualms running into danger while other run away from it. Am I special? No, I just do what I think is required of me and have a strong sense of duty. It's not in everyone. Believe me there are police officers who have no business being in uniform. It takes a special breed to serve others before themselves. Some call that a hero. I call it my job.

[Noir]

There are countless other jobs where people's lives are on the line. I don't see that as a defining attribute of a soldier.

Nikyfooey, those soldiers risk their lives everyday for little money doing all sorts of low tech and high tech jobs so that you and InternationalHouseofPancakesPatron77 could enjoy some good old fashion flapjacks like mum used to make. Without these brave and selfless individuals, you'd be stuck eating stale waffles from the WaffleHouse.

[NikFu S.]

I really hope that's an odd form of facetiousness.

In this day and age I really don't think we as Americans have anything to fear from the once mighty WafflHaus.

[lhopp77]

I didn't want you to feel left out of the big boy discussion.

Big boy discussion? Hummm, how did you get in it???? :p

Lee

[lhopp77]

This is for Manarius and NickyPhuey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8

Lee

[NikFu S.]

This is for Manarius and NickyPhuey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8

Lee

Sorry but that is a load of complete propagandist bull****.

You enjoy war because you're a soldier. We don't need you to go over and decimate a 3rd world country.

[lhopp77]

MUST READ if you think Obama will be good for the economy, taxpayers, business, the USD or even the budget deficit.

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2080116/posts

Lee

[NikFu S.]

MUST READ if you think Obama will be good for the economy, taxpayers, business, the USD or even the budget deficit.

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2080116/posts

Lee

For example, he wants to negotiate without preconditions with the likes of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Hugo Chavez and Castro. That's a mammoth blunder on many counts, but it betrays his belief he can somehow persuade anybody. As I've suggested, if he were president during World War II, he'd still be trying to sweet talk Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo and Stalin ...
I was never in the Obama camp so I'm not going to defend him, but this is an unfair comparison.

[Royal Tiger]

I was never in the Obama camp so I'm not going to defend him, but this is an unfair comparison.

No it's not. "NObama" has a very Chamberlin-esque way about him. Dangerous on MANY levels.

[NikFu S.]

I should have been more clear, but comparing Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Hugo Chavez and Castro to Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo and Stalin is hardly appropriate.

[lhopp77]

The Democrats are almost happy about the financial crisis. They don't have to fight off Palin's popularity. She is in their heads and they don't know how to respond, but this crisis has relieved them of looking like idiots. :p

[lhopp77]

I propose that idiots are a distraction from our problems and that label definitely does not fit Palin. She is far from an idiot as everyone knows. You might strongly disagree with her beliefs and question her qualifications which are actually better than Obamas, but you can't call her an idiot and expect anyone to really believe it. :)

That's what is driving the liberals crazy--don't you just love it?????;):D
Lee

[SuberNatural]

Maybe not an idiot but this article suggests a few other "accurate" names.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/23140513/the_truth_about_sarah_palin

[lhopp77]

Maybe not an idiot but this article suggests a few other "accurate" names.



Since when was Rolling Stone ever accused of being accurate. Check the dateline on the story!! :rolleyes:

Lee

[SuberNatural]

Its the October Issue you fool. Magazines regularly circulate earlier than the date on the spine....

[lhopp77]

she is an idiot. when has she ever said or done anything to prove otherwise. the fact that people like her only proves that we have an uneducated voting population.

Who is it that can't even use proper English???? Do you even know where to find the shift key? Your obvious contempt for conservatives is interesting and levels of education have nothing to do with conservative values. I suspect there are several conservatives on here that have far more education than you and probably even higher IQs. You have the eliteist attitude that will cause the democrats to lose. :)

Lee

[SuberNatural]

You seem to be striking out at everything but the issues. The man may not have pinky's to "shift" with lol. Everything aside i think people should read and respond to the article and please keep the ignorance to a minimum.

[lhopp77]

You seem to be striking out at everything but the issues. The man may not have pinky's to "shift" with lol. Everything aside i think people should read and respond to the article and please keep the ignorance to a minimum.

I fully agree. Are you going to stop posting?? :p

Lee

[RSVX]

Who is it that can't even use proper English???? Do you even know where to find the shift key? Your obvious contempt for conservatives is interesting and levels of education have nothing to do with conservative values. I suspect there are several conservatives on here that have far more education than you and probably even higher IQs. You have the eliteist attitude that will cause the democrats to lose. :)

Lee

This user has been removed.

[dromano]

This user has been removed.

What user has been removed?

[RSVX]

What user has been removed?

The user named "Palinisretarded" for what I hope would be obvious reasons.

[newsvx]

I propose that idiots are a distraction from our problems and that label definitely does not fit Palin. She is far from an idiot as everyone knows. You might strongly disagree with her beliefs and question her qualifications which are actually better than Obamas, but you can't call her an idiot and expect anyone to really believe it. :)

That's what is driving the liberals crazy--don't you just love it?????;):D
Lee

I would respectfully suggest that one look at the interview Palin gave with Couric today on NBC - all one has to do is observe and make a decision on the competence of Palin .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM72M62jAUc
Harry

[dromano]

I would respectfully suggest that one look at the interview Palin gave with Couric today on NBC - all one has to do is observe and make a decision on the competence of Palin .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM72M62jAUc
Harry

youtube is a tool.....get a life....think for yourself......duh

[NikFu S.]

I hope by tool you mean it is extremely useful and has changed the face of the internet almost over night. :confused:

[sicksubie]

Youtube has been a huge tool in a useful sense of the word.....









P.S. I bet that that palinisaretard was Nate... He always was so brilliant and articulate in the political forum. Oh, how I wish he was here so he could enlighten us with a few gems from the deep anals of his intellectual mind.....

[SuberNatural]

And how would youtube "being a tool" have anything to do with how AWFUL that interview is?

[dromano]

And how would youtube "being a tool" have anything to do with how AWFUL that interview is?

Let's see: Katie is a liberal cheer leader recently returned from the European tour with the other 2 network news anchors and the chosen ONE. Ask yourself, when was the last time a network anchor asked Nobama or Biden a "gotcha" question? "In the tank" is where the network news anchors are, PERIOD. If you don't see these realities for what they are then you are in the tank as well.

Awful interview is a perspective, not a real event, Palin is more than qualified to be President by virtue of the fact that she would be advised by the best conservative minds, minds of conservatives that want the islamo radicals eliminated as much as the majority of Americans.

If the interview was awful, that makes you just another angry liberal, live with it.

And the "awful" interview was a CBS Liberal "gotcha" event, Katie was only after a chance to make Sarah look as bad as she could while improving her "in the tank" support of Nobama.

I could go on but, I need to rest.:lol:

[dromano]

I hope by tool you mean it is extremely useful and has changed the face of the internet almost over night. :confused:

EXACTLY! A place for sheep and clowns.

[NikFu S.]

EXACTLY! A place for sheep and clowns.

Are you retarded? Everyone has complete freedom to choose how they wish to be entertained or informed. Sure it's used by morons and people who like to waste time. Don't lump the entire community and it's resource into the same garbage heap just because you have chosen to have a narrow-minded view about it.

[dromano]

Are you retarded? Everyone has complete freedom to choose how they wish to be entertained or informed. Sure it's used by morons and people who like to waste time. Don't lump the entire community and it's resource into the same garbage heap just because you have chosen to have a narrow-minded view about it.

Ok.

Retarded? Well, looks as though you decided that one.

What are the redeeming qualities of YouTube?

[NikFu S.]

Free on-demand media to the masses and expanded range of self-expression/freedom of speech.

If you can't dig that, you hate America.

--
Sorry for the name calling, but man, you really hit a nerve there and I do speak my mind without buttercoating things.

[dromano]

Free on-demand media to the masses and expanded range of self-expression/freedom of speech.

If you can't dig that, you hate America.

--
Sorry for the name calling, but man, you really hit a nerve there and I do speak my mind without buttercoating things.

At least; we can agree to disagree..........

I think YouTube is a 99.9% waste of time. For me it is freedom for air heads to put crap on the web.

[newsvx]

youtube is a tool.....get a life....think for yourself......duh

Hey Dro,

I'm not certain of what you are suggesting here. I "observe" everything from FOX to MSNBC to conservative blogs to various newspapers (to include the "ultra" conservative Winchester, VA STAR), to CNN and talking to many people, both on the right and left. As an independent, I am not tied to one particular source or party. I also watch (objectively) the debates and make my own mind up on how a candidate did or did not do. YOUTUBE is, in fact, an excellent tool to observe just how an individual handles themselves, whether with softball questions or the so-called "gotcha's". If a candidate (Palin or Obama or McCain or Biden) can not handle a gotcha question well, just how will they handle any hard negoiating with a foreign leader? The answer: "Not very well"! DUH!!

So yeah, YOUTUBE is one of many excellent tools to "observe" in making one's mind up / judging a person. That's what you were saying, right?

Harry