Curious about ECU tune stage 1

[Jedz123]

Hello fellas I just recently finished my EG33 swap into my 94 Legacy FWD. I was curious about the ECU tune stage 1 upgrade. I was wondering if it was worth the investment for you that have done the upgrade... thanks

~Jedz

[AFBeefcake]

Yes, its worth it.

[SomethingElse]

+1..

It kills gas milage but I dont think your worried about it:)

[Nomake Wan]

I noticed that ECUTune's site lists it as out of stock and doesn't seem to have any information as to whether it will be back in stock or not. I'm not going to be doing massive modifications to my car, so spending extra for Stage 2 is not really a good move on my part.

LAN, when can we expect new Stage 1 kits?

[Kelvin]

I've heard good things and bad things about it. I dunno what to do. It'd be cool to have a bit more power, but not if it uses an extra 5mpg.

[Jedz123]

+1..

It kills gas milage but I dont think your worried about it
NO I'm not worried about it... lol

How much power could I potentially gain from this upgrade? From what I understand is that it really helps your low end... which is cool but I already have enough traction problems. LOL... not exactly a bad thing! It also raises the rev limiter up to 7,4000rpm...is that necessary? Is that safe? sorry guys for the constawnt q's I'm just curious thanks so much!

~Jedz

[Myxalplyx]

It also raises the rev limiter up to 7,4000rpm...is that necessary? Is that safe? sorry guys for the constawnt q's I'm just curious thanks so much!

~Jedz

I do not see why it would be necessary. Actually, it looks pointless. Look at the dyno chart they provided.

http://www.smallcar.com/images/plots.gif


I still wonder about this dyno chart. The purple line looks as if they were able to dyno from a low rev range. The green line looks like it was just coming out of a shift from my experience. The green line is completely vertical.....almost V-tecish. I dunno! :D

[XT6Wagon]

The raised redline is poinless for a stock SVX engine, but 7,500 shouldn't do any mechanical damage. I suspect the valves starting to float and the lifters starting to colapse would remove power quick enough ontop of the standard puke-N-die of the stock cams.

[dannmarr]

I have it installed but I'm not a fan. I don't feel a difference, but it's usefull if you want to switch between premium and regular gas.

[Trevor]

I have it installed but I'm not a fan. I don't feel a difference, but it's usefull if you want to switch between premium and regular gas.

A valuable practical reference for sure.

The question now obvious is, on what basis is it useful, given that it is reported to increase fuel consumption? I run on regular and there is no indication that the OEM set up does note cope 100%.

The graph presented is most certainly very suspect. Placebo reduces the wallets of many, to the advantage of a few. :D

[mikecg]

The raised redline is poinless for a stock SVX engine, but 7,500 shouldn't do any mechanical damage. I suspect the valves starting to float and the lifters starting to colapse would remove power quick enough ontop of the standard puke-N-die of the stock cams.

I talk to LAN alot. The purpose of the raised rpm was for the guy's that have converted to manual. In an auto It wont do much, because the tranny is still going to shift at the same points.

[Phast SVX]

:/ you guys act like this is claiming to turbocharge your car. IT dropped a few tenths on my querter i can vouch for that from the stock 92 map. Its not a turbocharger, and it dosnt cost a grand.

[longassname]

Four years ago when stage 1v1 was being developed and that plot was posted what it was was clearly labeled and discussed. That huge dip in the begining of that plot is not the best case scenario for a stock car and it was never claimed to be. That plot is of the intermittent hessitation that occurs when it goes too lean at "tip in" and and pulls out huge amounts of timing. It's an intermittent problem not the norm every time you press the gas but it is real and does happen as we all know. It does not happen with any version of the stage 1 software (you are welcome). The best case plot for the stock software was also posted. Low rpm performance of stage 1v1 was way better than the best case stock plot as well--of course that was 4 years ago and we are on v5 now.....

I have no idea why you want to grab onto a 4 year old plot and act like it's something other than it was claimed to be and suggest I've posted something that is "suspect." (but that to me seems suspect)





I do not see why it would be necessary. Actually, it looks pointless. Look at the dyno chart they provided.

http://www.smallcar.com/images/plots.gif


I still wonder about this dyno chart. The purple line looks as if they were able to dyno from a low rev range. The green line looks like it was just coming out of a shift from my experience. The green line is completely vertical.....almost V-tecish. I dunno! :D

[longassname]

very suspect? No it was thoroughly discussed at the time and what it was was clearly identified. Everyone who actually races their svx and has real time data for it and has installed any version of stage 1 has found real improvements. That includes the admin of this network who competes, i believe at the national level, and ovbiously has very detailed time records.


Increased fuel consumption? I certainly haven't heard that before. The general consesnsus I've always heard is that the fuel consumption is the same. The power you get from the extra fuel under throttle pays for the fuel. The afr is not richer at cruise and hence can't possibly use more fuel. In the last and current version of stage 1 timing at cruise was increased--more timing at cruise equals (anyone want to guess)....improved fuel economy.


I think your repeated, thinly disguised insults of my character and work are more objectionable than your recent direct outburst of insults. Whatever chip you have gotten on your shoulder from the misjudgements you have made and perception that I was daring to question a diagnosis or comment you had made IS quickly eroding my perception of you. If you really want to continue down that road I'm not one to be shy you will hear exactly what I think.



A valuable practical reference for sure.

The question now obvious is, on what basis is it useful, given that it is reported to increase fuel consumption? I run on regular and there is no indication that the OEM set up does note cope 100%.

The graph presented is most certainly very suspect. Placebo reduces the wallets of many, to the advantage of a few. :D

[svxfiles]

Hello fellas I just recently finished my EG33 swap into my 94 Legacy FWD. I was curious about the ECU tune stage 1 upgrade. I was wondering if it was worth the investment for you that have done the upgrade... thanks

~Jedz
More power at the lower end, better timing tables, smoother power, AND BETTER GAS MILEAGE!
Thats my ECUTune experiance, and I've had 1V4, 1V5, 2V5, 2V6, and soon will get the 2V7.:D
I run with the Subaru select Monitor watching the advance, and retard, and I am VERY happy with the results!
Tom

[Trevor]

very suspect?

I think your repeated, thinly disguised insults of my character and work are more objectionable than your recent direct outburst of insults. Whatever chip you have gotten on your shoulder from the misjudgements you have made and perception that I was daring to question a diagnosis or comment you had made IS quickly eroding my perception of you. If you really want to continue down that road I'm not one to be shy you will hear exactly what I think.

:confused: :confused: " the misjudgements you have made and perception that I was daring to question a diagnosis or comment you had made"

I regret that you have jumped towards wrong conclusions. My comments have in every respect related only to the substance of those made by others within this thread. Nothing has been directed towards you in any shape or form.

The suspect item is the graph, nothing else personal or otherwise. It would appear that there are answers to the reasons for the query which is the essence of this thread. An exact explanation is what was called for, not presumptions of a non existent personal attack.

Sincerely, Trevor.

[Myxalplyx]

I have no idea why you want to grab onto a 4 year old plot and act like it's something other than it was claimed to be and suggest I've posted something that is "suspect." (but that to me seems suspect)

It also raises the rev limiter up to 7,4000rpm...is that necessary? Is that safe? sorry guys for the constawnt q's I'm just curious thanks so much!

~Jedz

Again, based on that dyno graph, I do not think that it is necessary to raise the rev limiter to 7400rpm. It is pointless!

[longassname]

What does that have to do with saying the plot is suspect because of the hole at low rpms?

The rev limit was also thoroughly discussed and it was put where the customers asked for it to be put. Furthermore, just because a stock car doesn't make more power at higher rpms doesn't mean it's pointless for the software to allow you to run higher rpms. With the right cams the cars can make much more high rpm power. Not everybody has to have a stock svx.

If I seem hostile it's because maybe I am a bit. It's very annoying to have people throwing out incorrect information, out of context in an effort to unfairly change people's opionions on my products and question my integrity.

It's also a low, disgusting thing to do.



Again, based on that dyno graph, I do not think that it is necessary to raise the rev limiter to 7400rpm. It is pointless!

[Myxalplyx]

What does that have to do with saying the plot is suspect because of the hole at low rpms?

The rev limit was also thoroughly discussed and it was put where the customers asked for it to be put. Furthermore, just because a stock car doesn't make more power at higher rpms doesn't mean it's pointless for the software to allow you to run higher rpms. With the right cams the cars can make much more high rpm power. Not everybody has to have a stock svx.

If I seem hostile it's because maybe I am a bit. It's very annoying to have people throwing out incorrect information, out of context in an effort to unfairly change people's opionions on my products and question my integrity.

It's also a low, disgusting thing to do.

Let me try this a different way. Look at the chart again:
http://www.smallcar.com/images/plots.gif

I dyno my Subarus to death. I have never EVER had a dyno graph with a 'horsepower' curve on ANY of my subarus like that. However, my SVX does have a torque curve like that. With the graph claiming that is a horsepower curve, it leaves it open to suspicion. The information surrounding the upgrade and what it is supposed to do makes sense.

So, is that a whp curve or torque curve? If it is a horsepower curve, I'm suspicious period. If it is a torque curve, then everything makes sense to me...with the throttle tip-in explanation and all.

BTW: I'll be searching for those other charts you spoke about, with the best case scenarios. I'm looking for knowledge about what it can do with data to support it...not just hearsay. Thanks!

[Myxalplyx]

:/ you guys act like this is claiming to turbocharge your car. IT dropped a few tenths on my querter i can vouch for that from the stock 92 map. Its not a turbocharger, and it dosnt cost a grand.

Interesting info about the 1/4 mile time drop. I mentioned in this thread-->http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=31895&page=2 that if I got rid of the lean air/fuel ratio and power loss between shifts that I could go from low 15's to mid 14's in the 1/4 mile. The chip proposes it could do something like that. I hate that power lose between shifts.

[longassname]

well you be suspicious all you want.....

it's a wheel hp plot from a dynapack dyno. You're looking at a clip of a corner of one of my dyno plots that somebody has made. I posted the whole plot along with a bunch of other plots here after a day of dyno tuning that was primary geared towards the original stage 2 nitrous programming. Everyone who was arround in those days knows what I'm talking about and knows that the plots are real. They honestly aren't great plots. After all if you were posting the whole plot there would be a 2-3 shift just to the right of what you are showing. But they are real, although completely irrelevant to anyone not trying to run nitrous or software that was outdated 4 years ago.


Let me try this a different way. Look at the chart again:
http://www.smallcar.com/images/plots.gif

I dyno my Subarus to death. I have never EVER had a dyno graph with a 'horsepower' curve on ANY of my subarus like that. However, my SVX does have a torque curve like that. With the graph claiming that is a horsepower curve, it leaves it open to suspicion. The information surrounding the upgrade and what it is supposed to do makes sense.

So, is that a whp curve or torque curve? If it is a horsepower curve, I'm suspicious period. If it is a torque curve, then everything makes sense to me...with the throttle tip-in explanation and all.

BTW: I'll be searching for those other charts you spoke about, with the best case scenarios. I'm looking for knowledge about what it can do with data to support it...not just hearsay. Thanks!

[Nomake Wan]

So LAN... still have question unanswered. Will 1v5 systems be back in stock in the (near) future, or do we all have to move up to Stage 2 to get Stage 1's benefits?

[Phast SVX]

well you be suspicious all you want.....

it's a wheel hp plot from a dynapack dyno. You're looking at a clip of a corner of one of my dyno plots that somebody has made. I posted the whole plot along with a bunch of other plots here after a day of dyno tuning that was primary geared towards the original stage 2 nitrous programming. Everyone who was arround in those days knows what I'm talking about and knows that the plots are real. They honestly aren't great plots. After all if you were posting the whole plot there would be a 2-3 shift just to the right of what you are showing. But they are real, although completely irrelevant to anyone not trying to run nitrous or software that was outdated 4 years ago.

I saw the original print offs, and that is the shape of every SVX dyno plot I have seen. That is what my 5mt plots shape like as well, off of a mustang 4wd dyno. You have a strong low end, lower revving motor, cresting at 5252.

the 7400 rpm rev limit was origionally suggested by me and some of the other few 5mt'ers at the time to avoid the pesky 6500rpm soft fuel cut that made the car decelerate if you revved even to redline(stock tac is slow). The other problem was running nitrous and hitting soft fuel cut, or perhaps reaching full cutoff would have been disasters. Its something you really need not care about since your running an automatic, and would need lans help to reprogram the TCU if you wanted to REV higher(and that would require you to show some faith)

[immortal_suby]

For the record - my mileage hasn't noticeably changed through all the ECUtune stages - and I have been running stage 2v7 for a while now. On a recent long distance highway trip I got about the same mileage with 2v7 that I got when I was completely stock.

And, thanks to ECUtune, my car hasn't had any low rpm power loss in many years!

Thank you, LAN!

[Myxalplyx]

http://www.smallcar.com/images/plots.gif

I guess you can see I like posting up the dyno chart. :D

That chart shows that the purple line has a 'horsepower' peak at around 4400rpm. It is showing the green line having a horsepower peak around 4500-4600rpm. Just a guess. Stock the SVX makes 230hp@5400rpm and 228lb-ft of torque @ 4400rpm.

Would you say that the graphed lines that are shown on this dyno plot better represents horsepower or torque? If it is definitely horsepower, why is the horsepower curve so much different than stock?


Now-->
I saw the original print offs, and that is the shape of every SVX dyno plot I have seen. That is what my 5mt plots shape like as well, off of a mustang 4wd dyno. You have a strong low end, lower revving motor, cresting at 5252.


I will show you only four dyno plots of mine. Below are two horsepower dyno plot graphs, one in second gear, one in 3rd gear. The next two graphs will show torque dyno plots, one in second gear and one in 3rd gear. They are big and wide for easy viewing.

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/SVX-2ndGear-HP.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/SVX-3rdGear-HP.jpg
**Notice that in these two graphs, horsepower in both 2nd and 3rd gear peaks around 5400-5500rpm....just like stock horsepower (230hp@5400rpm).


http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/SVX-2ndGear-TQ.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/SVX-3rdGear-TQ.jpg
**Notice that in these two graphs, torque in both 2nd and 3rd gear peaks around 4400-4500rpm.....just like the stock torque curve (228lb-ft@4400rpm).


Now, I have shown four examples of how an SVX horsepower and torque curve is different than that chart. This is from my personal experience. Can someone show an SVX's horsepower curve on a dyno chart that peaks at 4400-4500rpm, just like the ECUTune dyno plot? Torque yes! Horsepower No! That is what seems strange to me. :D :p (I am having fun with this guys. Breathe easy!).

Oh and I lied! I have seen at least one subaru dyno curve that is shaped like the ECUTune's dyno curve. What I mean is that the horsepower dropped off around 4400rpm. I think it was an EA81 engine though. Let me look for it now.......Darn it!! I can't find it. However, if you go to this link-->http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/80s/specs/general/specyears.html you will find a whole host of old school Subarus from early to the mid 80's that have horsepower peaking in the 4400-4800rpm range. My apologies! :D

Does anyone have any of those old print-offs that show the SVX horsepower peaking in the 4400-4500rpm range?

[longassname]

Jesus man you just don't listen do you?

You keep running around posting a clip someone else has made of one of my dyno plots. The entire dynoplot from the dyno session where the initial tuning of stage1v1 and the stage 2 nitrous system was done was posted here on these forums four years ago. Cause this guy just won't stop posting missleading information, I had to waste my time looking up the four year old thread to get the follwing links. Here is the link to the tsb plot...
http://www.ecutune.com/dynoplots/tsbafr.jpg

notice that plot actually goes to ecutune website where the legitimate plot is hosted. NOT somebody elses website. As was thoroughly discussed at the time..as I had to do some figuring it out myself....the whole session was done on a dynapack dyno which calculates rpm from hub speed based on the gear ratio. All numbers before the 2-3 shift were therefore off by the difference between the gear ratio in 2nd and 3rd. Something we all figured out together. (you might also notice the spike in the afr to 14.6 at wide open throttle--kind of explains the corresponding drop in power don't ya think) (you might also notice that if you look at the filenames they end with afr...cause they are plots from a tuning session displaying afr information not power claims for sales purposes).


and the stage 1 plot (also hosted on ecutune website)....
http://www.ecutune.com/dynoplots/stage1afr.jpg


and the nitrous run (hosted on the ecutune website).....
http://www.ecutune.com/dynoplots/stage2torque.jpg

and the nitrous run showing the afr (hosted on the ecutune website)....
http://www.ecutune.com/dynoplots/stage2afr.jpg


hey!!! what's this? What's that on the monitor of the dynpack dyno with the svx bolted to it? It sure looks the plot of the pull that we decided to use as the stage 1v1 software!!!!!! but no!!! it can't be!!! myxyplyxus says the dyno plots are fake!
http://www.ecutune.com/dynoday/PICT0048.jpg

[Nomake Wan]

Third time's a charm...

Is Stage 1vX making a comeback, or are you moving everyone up to Stage 2 and abandoning Stage 1?

[Myxalplyx]

Ok Michael! Thanks for providing the dyno sheets. I have made my point.

When/If you ever make one for the 1996+ SVX folks, I'll be one of the first to get it for testing purposes. If it can take a few tenths off of my 1/4 mile time, it will serve its purpose for me.

Personally, I have no problems with throttle tip-in lose of power. The car seems to thrust forward and throw your head back everytime, especially in manual mode. I was out testing this last night for over two hours. However, there is a loss of power between gears. I think I know how to deal with that. Will show once/if it gets done.


Jedz,
I hope it is a worthwhile investement.

[shotking]

Third time's a charm...

Is Stage 1vX making a comeback, or are you moving everyone up to Stage 2 and abandoning Stage 1?
I was wondering this myself.

[longassname]

I'm running very low on memory adaptors so I reserved the last of them for stage 2 orders. Stage 1v5 software is still available as update roms for owners of older stage 1s. I'm making changes to the memory adaptors for the next batch and don't have an eta for them being in stock yet.

[Nomake Wan]

Personally, I have no problems with throttle tip-in lose of power.
Seriously? From a dead stop my car ALWAYS bogs for a second before power kicks in... I thought it was that transducer thing in the ECU, but I crushed it and it didn't fix the bogging... :o

[immortal_suby]

Seriously? From a dead stop my car ALWAYS bogs for a second before power kicks in... I thought it was that transducer thing in the ECU, but I crushed it and it didn't fix the bogging... :o

I had the same thing. Crushing the bead helped but didn't fix it completely. ECUtune did :D

Kevin, manual mode in the US just makes the tranny to skip 1st gear if you have the selector in 2 or above for slippery surface starts. Did you do some kind of modification to make manual mode be a performance oriented mode like it is overseas?

[TomsSVX]

Kevin... You want to see a power drop off?? Look at my dyno chart... It drops off at 3500 rpm. Seriously, once an svx starts making more power you will see that the peak moves from a higher RPM to a lower because that is where our cams want to make power. Its just a fact of life until we get the new cams installed and start dynoing again.

Tom

[Nomake Wan]

I had the same thing. Crushing the bead helped but didn't fix it completely. ECUtune did :D
Now that's what I wanted to hear! Time to save up my pennies. :D

[Phast SVX]

I saw the original print offs, and that is the shape of every SVX dyno plot I have seen.
Is there a part of this that dosnt mesh? I do not get it? I was talking about the origional plots.....

[shotking]

Now that's what I wanted to hear! Time to save up my pennies. :D
Me too I'll start saving now.:)

[Myxalplyx]

Kevin... You want to see a power drop off?? Look at my dyno chart... It drops off at 3500 rpm. Seriously, once an svx starts making more power you will see that the peak moves from a higher RPM to a lower because that is where our cams want to make power. Its just a fact of life until we get the new cams installed and start dynoing again.

Tom

Very interesting Tom! Thanks for pointing this out. I thought the peak powerband moved around only when a different cam profile is installed or a turbo is installed on an NA car. I will be looking into this more. Thanks!

[NikFu S.]

For the record, stage 1, good.
Gas mileage, same.
Low end, better.
Easy.
Cheap.
Been running it since 1v3.
Every so often the car is a little boggy, but it is pretty old, and our fuel REALLY sucks.