Sheehan calls it quits...

[RSVX]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/28/sheehan/index.html

Sheehan: My son "did indeed die for nothing"

With the above statement, I truly believe, in my heart, that this woman has done nothing but discredit her sons service, and may as well have pissed on his grave.

Discuss.

[Royal Tiger]

I have had nothing but disgust in regards to this loser. What a shame her son was reared by this thing. His contribution to this country is far above what she could ever dream of.

[lhopp77]

I definitely agree with the previous posts--wholeheartedly.

As far as I am concerned, she deserves no further comment, discussion or consideration.

Lee

[benebob]

Why no more comment or consideration Lee? Our combat troops should've been home 3 years ago now. The best hope now for the failures in Iraq are that it takes 10 years from now for another dictatorship to arise there and it isn't a fundamentalist regime. Too bad we killed the one man who was able to keep the country together since the Turkish Emipire did. Glad we spent my daughter's future on a war we now have no chance to win.

You boys and your anti American retoric makes me as sick as her anti patriotic retoric. Both prove to provide nothing but divisions and are at best part of the problem with why we can't win a war that wasn't started by the people for the people. Not once in history has it sucessfully been accomplished. Then when you have a draft dodger in Office that is too dumb to realize that there were reasons for his daddy not wanting to go all the way you're doomed to fail just as we have already in Iraq.

[RSVX]

You boys and your anti American retoric makes me as sick as her anti patriotic retoric.

What? Where?

I merely commented on her discrediting her sons service. Nothing else...

Way to put words in my mouth...

[benebob]

What? Where?

I merely commented on her discrediting her sons service. Nothing else...

Way to put words in my mouth...

So you knew her son personally then huh and he told you that. Her son DIED so people just like her, just like you, just like Lee can say what they want. The discredit would be for him to die and her to sit at home afraid to say what she feels. Is it right what she stood for... To her and many in the country sure, others its wrong but eitherway, we're giving American's enemies exactly what they want by making a big deal out of one person's thoughts. We're fighting eachother rather than learning to fix the reasons why we were attacked.

[lhopp77]

Others things are not worthy of comment either. :rolleyes:

Lee

[RSVX]

So you knew her son personally then huh and he told you that. Her son DIED so people just like her, just like you, just like Lee can say what they want. The discredit would be for him to die and her to sit at home afraid to say what she feels. Is it right what she stood for... To her and many in the country sure, others its wrong but eitherway, we're giving American's enemies exactly what they want by making a big deal out of one person's thoughts. We're fighting eachother rather than learning to fix the reasons why we were attacked.

No, but I do know... because I have BEEN THERE. I agree that she has every right to say what she feels. But having been in the Military, and lived that life as a child (My Dad was a 20 year Marine) I know how most Military people think.

[RSVX]

Also, I always thought she was a crazy radical person, but I understand, and agree with, the reason she broke ties with the Democratic party: They pussied out on the spending bill.

All that whining about how they're not going to give Bush any more blank checks on the war, and try to put a stop to it...and they give Bush another blank check just like the Republican congress.:D

[zcarguy]

Glad we spent my daughter's future on a war we now have no chance to win.

How is your daughter's future now any less bright than it was before the war?
Oh, you mean all the government spending. Like any of the previous administrations had trouble spending every dime they could steal from the hard working, tax paying citizens in this country!!!

If it wasn't the war they'd find something else to spend OUR money on.

Or are you refering to Social Security, Medicare, Medic-Aid or any of the other meriads of SPENDING (vote buying) programs that will eventually bankrupt this country? Get real, our government hasn't served this country for many administrations. I have to think all the way back to Reagan to find a guy I think actually put the welfare of the country ahead of politics. The last few adminstrations and the congresses that have served with them have been so fixated on pet projects and partisan politics that nothing positive has come out of any of them, except maybe Bush's tax cuts that were put in place before 911.

If you're refering to education spending, a huge portion of the funding comes from local sources so won't be affected and the federal government shouldn't be involved anyway.

As for the war, it was a strategic move to go into Iraq. We had been asked to remove our troops from Saudi Arabia so where can we put them and still keep a significant presence in the area? Hey, lets take out Sadam and leave troops there. It's an ideal location to be able to project power into Iran, Syria, Afganistan and North Africa. The excuse to do it was WMD but that wasn't the real reason, I'm conviced it's a strategic move. Does that justify it, I'm not sure yet, it remains to be seen what the long term affects will be in the region. If we pull out before Iraq has a stable government with the ability to defend itself it's a guarantee Iran will be there which would make Iran the major power in the area, do we want that? I don't think so.

OK, I've rambled and vented enough.

[Manarius]

Also, I always thought she was a crazy radical person, but I understand, and agree with, the reason she broke ties with the Democratic party: They pussied out on the spending bill.

All that whining about how they're not going to give Bush any more blank checks on the war, and try to put a stop to it...and they give Bush another blank check just like the Republican congress.:DI am extremely disappointed with the Democrats on this one. HOWEVER, this bill merely funds the war until Sept 30th. At that point, the military has to give some key status reports and then the Democrats can start hammering away at this lame duck.

Last time I checked, the government cut funding for higher education and raised interest rates for its loans for college students. So now, I have to give Uncle Sam 30% of my check AND higher interest rates on my loans. So, that $120 BILLION the useless Democrats in Congress just gave to the president could have been spent much better if it had been spent here at home. Right now, this country is nearly 9 TRILLION dollars in debt. That means, just to pay off our debt, every person in America would have to pay nearly 30 grand - just to be in the black. If we would cut spending and go back to say...uhhh...Reagan type spending, we'd be much much better off. Instead, we have these ass-backward Republicans spending America into financial oblivion with Vietnam level wars and killing 3000+ American soldiers whilst wounding many more thousands of others.

For what I ask! For what have over 3000 American soldiers, 655000+ Iraqis, and several hundred others given their lives!? For freedom? For democracy? And what do we have over there now? Chaos.

[benebob]

No, but I do know... because I have BEEN THERE. I agree that she has every right to say what she feels. But having been in the Military, and lived that life as a child (My Dad was a 20 year Marine) I know how most Military people think.

So that gives you blanket authority to speak for the dead. Give me a break. You're too funny!

[benebob]

Others things are not worthy of comment either. :rolleyes:

Lee

What because you now realize how idiotic you're thought process is? You crack me up.:rolleyes:

[benebob]

How is your daughter's future now any less bright than it was before the war?



3 trillion is the best estimate if we left now once you factor in the paltry retirement, health care and long term VA care into it. Funny, didn't Bush fire a staff member who put the figure at $250 billion instead of the less than $100. 3 trillion would be enough to fund SS for 50 more years BTW.

[zcarguy]

Well maybe instead of expecting the government to take care of us we should expect that it won't and plan for our own futures. I don't expect to get anything from SS and have planned accordingly. If we all stopped expecting the government to take care of us it would have much less power to influence our lives and we'd all be better off. So help your daughter learn to fend for herself and start early on her financial security, that way she won't be at the mercy of the beaurocrats and politicians in DC.

[RSVX]

So that gives you blanket authority to speak for the dead. Give me a break. You're too funny!

Again, get your words out of my mouth...

[ensteele]

I am not going to wait for the government to take care of me either. I am watching my own back on that one. Didn't the Dems say that SS was not going down the bucket and is ok for many more years? :o :confused:

[lhopp77]

Last time I checked, the government cut funding for higher education and raised interest rates for its loans for college students. So now, I have to give Uncle Sam 30% of my check AND higher interest rates on my loans.

Errors as usual. I think if you really research this you will find that while INCREASES in spending for some education components were cut, that overall spending is higher than ever before. As to the loan interest increases---- that was built into law BEFORE this administration to closer resemble the REAL costs of loaning money. Even at the increased rates it is still a bargain. I assume people like you think that all the rest of us should pay for your higher education???:rolleyes:

Lee

[benebob]

Well maybe instead of expecting the government to take care of us we should expect that it won't and plan for our own futures. I don't expect to get anything from SS and have planned accordingly. If we all stopped expecting the government to take care of us it would have much less power to influence our lives and we'd all be better off. So help your daughter learn to fend for herself and start early on her financial security, that way she won't be at the mercy of the beaurocrats and politicians in DC.


That statment makes sense until you realize that congress has passed leg. stating SS isn't going anywhere and will be there for the duration w/o loss of benefits. Problem is even if the surplus wasn't used elsewhere in 30 years the SS tax will be 38% of your income. Sure most only pay half and their employers pay the other half but that will put the average tax rate at well over 50%. Hello Britain BUT we won't have a gov't health care system in there as well. Oh yeah and by then when our bond rating has fallen most of our foreign investors will be calling wanting their trillions!

[benebob]

Again, get your words out of my mouth...

Dah, "I know how most military people think"

Sounds like you're a puppet to me.;) Glad you let others pull the stings for you while you can speak about the dead!

[benebob]

I assume people like you think that all the rest of us should pay for your higher education???:rolleyes:

Lee

He's paying for YOUR retirement, YOUR medicare, and YOUR perscriptions. That is unless you send those checks back to the gov't.



Didn't think so!

[RSVX]

Dah, "I know how most military people think"

Sounds like you're a puppet to me.;) Glad you let others pull the stings for you while you can speak about the dead!

So because I am an observant, inquisitive person, this makes me a puppet?

:rolleyes: Thanks for clearing that up for me. :rolleyes:

Also notice the operative in my statement: 'most', not 'all'.

[zcarguy]

That statment makes sense until you realize that congress has passed leg. stating SS isn't going anywhere and will be there for the duration w/o loss of benefits. Problem is even if the surplus wasn't used elsewhere in 30 years the SS tax will be 38% of your income. Sure most only pay half and their employers pay the other half but that will put the average tax rate at well over 50%. Hello Britain BUT we won't have a gov't health care system in there as well. Oh yeah and by then when our bond rating has fallen most of our foreign investors will be calling wanting their trillions!

See, this the problem with expecting the government to take care of us.
Money is taken from us to fund a program which is supposed to benefit us. This money is not spent immediately so it sits around in an account which is visible to the politicians. They can't help but spend the money on some other "worthy" project, so now the original program is compromised. How do these politicians fix the problem they've created? They steal more money from us!!!
So now there's legislation that guarantees SS will be around longer, big deal, it just means the SS fund will be filled again on our backs and provide more funds they can use for something else.

[lhopp77]

He's paying for YOUR retirement, YOUR medicare, and YOUR perscriptions. That is unless you send those checks back to the gov't.


Maybe I worked a bit for my retirement and gave up quite a bit--I admit by choice, but still not just a GIMME. My medicare is the same as everyone else my age---

lEE

[dcarrb]

Regarding federally-funded social services: It's our money, and we put the policy-makers into office. One might view this arrangement not as the government taking care of us, but as us taking care of one another. If we expect a nation of some three hundred million souls to endure and thrive, individuals can't be in it just for themselves. "I got mine" gets us nowhere.

dcb

[benebob]

See, this the problem with expecting the government to take care of us.
Money is taken from us to fund a program which is supposed to benefit us. This money is not spent immediately so it sits around in an account which is visible to the politicians. They can't help but spend the money on some other "worthy" project, so now the original program is compromised. How do these politicians fix the problem they've created? They steal more money from us!!!
So now there's legislation that guarantees SS will be around longer, big deal, it just means the SS fund will be filled again on our backs and provide more funds they can use for something else.

I guess you don't know why we have SS then do you? It was designed to get older people out of the workforce not as a benefit, which as Lee points out he takes this gov't handout all the while *****ing about spending money to help better others. Again, politicians are only accountable if you make them, which sadly doesn't happen with our pathetic 2 party system.

[lhopp77]

I guess you don't know why we have SS then do you? It was designed to get older people out of the workforce not as a benefit, which as Lee points out he takes this gov't handout all the while *****ing about spending money to help better others. Again, politicians are only accountable if you make them, which sadly doesn't happen with our pathetic 2 party system.

I don't really see where I have *****ed about other people getting government benefits, but I definitely could in some cases. You jumped on my statement when I said maybe some think we should pay for their education. There is a significant difference in totally "free" benefits and benefits that have been earned either by service or contributions. I say again--I don't think the government owes anybody a higher education, but I don't have any problem with government loans at reasonable interest rates provided they are paid back. Is this what twists your panties?? :p ;)

Lee

[Manarius]

I don't really see where I have *****ed about other people getting government benefits, but I definitely could in some cases. You jumped on my statement when I said maybe some think we should pay for their education. There is a significant difference in totally "free" benefits and benefits that have been earned either by service or contributions. I say again--I don't think the government owes anybody a higher education, but I don't have any problem with government loans at reasonable interest rates provided they are paid back. Is this what twists your panties?? :p ;)

LeeSo, our government would rather make it HARDER for students to attain higher education? Uh? You're saying that our government should pay for wars in other countries and NOT help students achieve higher education to help them out in the future (you know, college educated students make more money and therefore pay more in taxes)? I would have no problem with higher interest rates if I understood where all our money was going! If we were trying to fix our broken healthcare system or our broken immigration system, I could understand! But when $120 billion goes to Iraq instead of US Citizens who FUNDED that $120 billion, I have a problem!

I don't understand why what I ask is such a problem. It's too much to ask that my tax money be spent on me, not somebody else in some country I don't care about? Especially when we have no damn business being there in the first place. And even more important is that there are more people dying everyday in Africa because we choose to fight wars in Muslim countries instead of helping the poor and handicapped in countries where genocide (term used by Bush to describe Darfur) occurs!

We have our priorities ass-backwards around here. If the Republicans were truly "America First" they'd stop this pointless non-sense in Iraq and we'd start helping people who cannot fight back (Iraqis choose not to - see sectarian violence). The Iraqi people have the capability without US backing to do whatever the hell they want in their country. The peoples of Africa physically can not fight back. That is where we should step in - if we want to be the "morally responsible" people that the Republicans claim to be.

Seriously, where in the hell is Ronald Reagan when you need him? I bet he's rolling over in his grave as we speak because today's Republicans routinely spit on the image he made for them. Why is it that we can't just have a small government that tries to not deficit spend (something Bush just doesn't give a crap about) and cares about its own people? Stop this huge government nonsense!

[lhopp77]

Simply stated all I have said is that---WE the other taxpayers do not owe you a higher education at our expense. Student loans at a reasonable interest rate--great. Otherwise, we don't owe you.

Lee

[benebob]

Simply stated all I have said is that---WE the other taxpayers do not owe you a higher education at our expense. Student loans at a reasonable interest rate--great. Otherwise, we don't owe you.

Lee

Statements like that show why you won't be able to see a doctor in 25 years without waiting for 6 months.

[Noir]

So, our government would rather make it HARDER for students to attain higher education? Uh? You're saying that our government should pay for wars in other countries and NOT help students achieve higher education to help them out in the future (you know, college educated students make more money and therefore pay more in taxes)? I would have no problem with higher interest rates if I understood where all our money was going! If we were trying to fix our broken healthcare system or our broken immigration system, I could understand! But when $120 billion goes to Iraq instead of US Citizens who FUNDED that $120 billion, I have a problem!

I don't understand why what I ask is such a problem. It's too much to ask that my tax money be spent on me, not somebody else in some country I don't care about? Especially when we have no damn business being there in the first place. And even more important is that there are more people dying everyday in Africa because we choose to fight wars in Muslim countries instead of helping the poor and handicapped in countries where genocide (term used by Bush to describe Darfur) occurs!

We have our priorities ass-backwards around here. If the Republicans were truly "America First" they'd stop this pointless non-sense in Iraq and we'd start helping people who cannot fight back (Iraqis choose not to - see sectarian violence). The Iraqi people have the capability without US backing to do whatever the hell they want in their country. The peoples of Africa physically can not fight back. That is where we should step in - if we want to be the "morally responsible" people that the Republicans claim to be.

Seriously, where in the hell is Ronald Reagan when you need him? I bet he's rolling over in his grave as we speak because today's Republicans routinely spit on the image he made for them. Why is it that we can't just have a small government that tries to not deficit spend (something Bush just doesn't give a crap about) and cares about its own people? Stop this huge government nonsense!

+1 chiketkd agreed.

IMO priority 1 = health care, priority 2 = immigration.

as per my local 5 hour visit to social security to verify my mother's birthdate so that they wouldn't cut her benefits:

quoted the SS rep: "all problems with names and such should be redirected to homeland security (formerly INS)."

quite a bit of money dumped into homeland security, yet i don't see much change in immigration nor do i feel safer that we have this new 'protective' agency that's policing the foreign nationals inside the united states.

[Noir]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/28/sheehan/index.html



With the above statement, I truly believe, in my heart, that this woman has done nothing but discredit her sons service, and may as well have pissed on his grave.

Discuss.

In her eyes, her son died for a worthless cause. I don't see what's wrong with that.

I think her loss has earned her a right to criticize the war in whichever way she see's fit.

[Manarius]

Simply stated all I have said is that---WE the other taxpayers do not owe you a higher education at our expense. Student loans at a reasonable interest rate--great. Otherwise, we don't owe you.

LeeWell, I the taxpayer expect a return from what I pay in taxes. Is that too much to ask?

And while we're at it, WE the taxpayers don't owe you a SS check every month, but you get one, don't you? It's called give and take. You can't just take without giving too.

[zcarguy]

At least the huge majority of those poeple who are receiving SS checks paid something into the system. Most of the people who want FREE education are young and have contributed little to nothing.
Not that I'm really in favor of either program but if I had to choose I would choose the education assistance before any other benefit program. Education is an investment in the future of our nation where the SS benefit is a tool used by the government to manipulate those people who did a poor job of planning for their future.

I'd still like to see the government out of the business of social engineering!!!

[lhopp77]

Well, I the taxpayer expect a return from what I pay in taxes. Is that too much to ask?

And while we're at it, WE the taxpayers don't owe you a SS check every month, but you get one, don't you? It's called give and take. You can't just take without giving too.

Yes, that is asking to much. :)

Oh, while I am under medicare I have not collected a SS check yet and won't for some months to come. It will be interesting to see if I collect as much as I paid in plus the interest I could have made on the money over the years. I still think Bush's idea of allowing a small percentage of each individuals social security taxes be placed in a private investment account owned and controlled by the individual. The current system is a lousy system that has been modified to pay for things never intended under the original system. My father paid many years into the system and ended up only collecting for 2 years.

The SS system is broke and needs to be fixed but the good old democrats blocked recent attempts to overhaul it for the good of all.

Lee

[ensteele]

I have put into a retirement pension far less than what I pay towards SS and will have a very comfortable retirement eventually. I wish I could have put the other money where I have put my own and I would really have it made. I agree that people should be able to do something with their own money towards their own retirement, but many would not. Remember that retirement is a new concept. In years past, people just worked until they died. Now people think they should just quit working after a period of time and "Retire". :rolleyes: My X wife is making sure that I will be able to work for 2 years after I die. :o :D :D

[benebob]

The SS system is broke and needs to be fixed but the good old democrats blocked recent attempts to overhaul it for the good of all.

Lee

Funny you should say that Rick Santorum (you don't get much more right wing than this without wearing a white hood) was the "leader" in blocking any SS reform. He even touted his work to the good seniors of PA in his loosing reelection bid. How's the system broke anyways, IT ISN'T and would be there for the next 150 years (even if lifespans increase and birthrates continue to decline) fully funded if the money wasn't spent for other things. Not bad for a fund that was scheduled to die after the country pulled out of the Great Depression but if you think back Lee, there was a Republican push for it to remain in the 50s.

[Manarius]

Ben is exactly right. SS funds are like congress' and the president's "spare money jar" if you will. They dig into it when they're short on funds. If we would stop wasting our money needlessly, SS wouldn't have the problems it has now.

[Noir]

Ben is exactly right. SS funds are like congress' and the president's "spare money jar" if you will. They dig into it when they're short on funds. If we would stop wasting our money needlessly, SS wouldn't have the problems it has now.


you know it's kind of hard putting a big piece of cake in front of a fat kid. :P