Cage installation

[benebob]

Was playing around with the bent steel pipe sitting in the garage beside the racer last night. Looks like it'll fit nicely. Now I just need to get the gas conversion kit for the welder and a gas bottle. Can't find anyone local willing to lease one though. Looks doubtful for an apperance fully done by reading but might get the bar in by then.

Questions I'm coming up with.
1. Should I paint it before installing and then just clean the areas to be welded or wait until its in to paint?
2. Any thoughts on making a seat mounting system that we can switch seats easily?
3. It'll need to have holes cut into the dash yes the dash is back in and looks good at 1/3 of the weight of a stock one. Any ideas on making nice clean cuts large enough to feed it down then an epoxy or something to clean it up afterwards?

[SVXRide]

Ben,
Paint after you're done welding...are you sure the cage will still be "certified" if you weld it up? I thought you had to have the cage welded by a welder with the right certifications in order for any sanctioning body to accept the cage.

Hole saw!!

You might be able to get by with heavy duty pit pins to hold the seat in - they'd have to be hardened to make sure they're strong enough such that they wouldn't shear off in an accident.

-Bill

[dynomatt]

Paint after welding.

What seat are you using? What quick adjustments do you need, and how long is "quick"?

I can take as many photos of my cage and seat mounts if you want to show you one way to do it...it's probably not the way I'd do it again if I had the choice, but it's the way I've got.

The only other rollcaged SVX I'm aware of is also here in Australia, but it's rubbish.

Matt

[benebob]

Right now a plastic summit racing seat (kinda like a dune buggy seat). Looking to put in a Kirkley Aluminum seat in the near future. Maybe next year.

Pics would be great!

[benebob]

Ben,
Paint after you're done welding...are you sure the cage will still be "certified" if you weld it up? I thought you had to have the cage welded by a welder with the right certifications in order for any sanctioning body to accept the cage.

Hole saw!!

You might be able to get by with heavy duty pit pins to hold the seat in - they'd have to be hardened to make sure they're strong enough such that they wouldn't shear off in an accident.

-Bill

I'm not planning on doing all the welding, just tacking everything in place. I didn't see anything about "certified" welder doing it just that it must meet certain standards for weld penetration and so forth. It took me a good 20 minutes just to test fit the roll bar. Not the easiest thing to get in there to say the least. I'd prefer to do all that stuff rather than pay shop time for it. Remember, the great state of North Carolina certified me as a welder 15 years ago so I'm sure I could always argue that I'm certified. I just drove to NC to do the welding.

Hole saw won't work as the dash needs to come out to weld down there. Its the whole fitting things back together I'm concerned about. Don't want it to look like the Battlestar:D

[sperry]

Considering the point of a cage is to save your life, I wouldn't cut corners. If you're not 100% absolutely sure you know what you're doing, take it somewhere. Hell, if you haven't at least "helped" a pro four or five times on cage installs, I'd take it somewhere even if you do know what you're doing. A bad cage will make the car less safe than no cage.

Also, depending on the club/sanctioning body/class you're racing under, the cage will have certain requirements to be legal. Like you said, it's not so much that the welder is "certified", it's that the cage meets the minimum rules... such as pipe material/size, number of mounting points, basic layout, number of bends in a pipe, etc.

Here's some pictures from my WRX cage being installed to SCCA Showroom Stock rules: http://www.seccs.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5589

I sent it to a shop that builds/tunes professional racecars, and *they* sent it to a shop that specifically builds cages because they want to make sure it's safe.

[TomsSVX]

Ben, I have a tank of 75arg and 25co2 if you need to borrow it. Its a typical mig mixture for mild steel(as long as thats what your cage is made of). Just make sure I get it back in time to make another X-member for reading(someone needed the one I had).

Tom

[SVXRide]

Considering the point of a cage is to save your life, I wouldn't cut corners. If you're not 100% absolutely sure you know what you're doing, take it somewhere. Hell, if you haven't at least "helped" a pro four or five times on cage installs, I'd take it somewhere even if you do know what you're doing. A bad cage will make the car less safe than no cage.

Also, depending on the club/sanctioning body/class you're racing under, the cage will have certain requirements to be legal. Like you said, it's not so much that the welder is "certified", it's that the cage meets the minimum rules... such as pipe material/size, number of mounting points, basic layout, number of bends in a pipe, etc.

Here's some pictures from my WRX cage being installed to SCCA Showroom Stock rules: http://www.seccs.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5589

I sent it to a shop that builds/tunes professional racecars, and *they* sent it to a shop that specifically builds cages because they want to make sure it's safe.


by "certified", I meant that the welder understands the specifics regarding how the cage has to be welded and can actually create welds that are compliant.
-Bill

[benebob]

by "certified", I meant that the welder understands the specifics regarding how the cage has to be welded and can actually create welds that are compliant.
-Bill


What you don't think I can do that?:D I've done some quite capable work in the past. Just been quite a while. I'll have help. Our helper just got done working on a Spec Micrappy!:D

[benebob]

Got the feet welded onto the main hoop tonight. Just playing around with the fitment. The SVX floor is gonna be a pain. For a car that prides itself on being flat the floor is anything but.:D

[dynomatt]

Pics of what you're doing?

[SVXRide]

Pics of what you're doing?

Matt,
Do you really want to see Ben's ****ugly welds?:eek: :p :D
-Bill

[dynomatt]

If only to compare them to mine :D

I'm not sure what the floor being flat means for him without pictures...maybe he's doing it differently?

M

[benebob]

Dyno, here's the site that built our cage. The flat floor would be nice for making the sub plates easier to weld. I thought it was close but its a good 1/4 inch off where I want the hoop to go. I think I should be able to bend the 6x6 plate so it goes up the rear seat wall so I can weld the main hoop directly to it but need Dave's fit as well. Wish we were an inch or two closer in height!

http://autoweldchassis.com/rbc.ivnu

Bill you're really trying to replace Wally with Bought not Billt aren't ya!;) My welds actually look pretty good from last night. Tonight the harness bar goes in. Hoping to have the bar and rear strut tower mounts in by Reading. Wish we had our aluminum racing seat to make fitment easier.

[SVXRide]

Bill you're really trying to replace Wally with Bought not Billt aren't ya!;) My welds actually look pretty good from last night. Tonight the harness bar goes in. Hoping to have the bar and rear strut tower mounts in by Reading. Wish we had our aluminum racing seat to make fitment easier.


Just messing with ya;) Hey, you're the one the cage is going to protect the first time you put the Racer on its head:eek: , so I'd think you'd want to make sure all the welds are right:cool:

As far as BNB goes, I'll be doing a lot of work myself on the 'reX to get it into "fighting shape" for the GRC. Paul has provided the "foundation" I'm going to build on. I'm also going to use it as a working jig for some other ideas I've got....:cool:

-Bill

[benebob]

Just messing with ya;) Hey, you're the one the cage is going to protect the first time you put the Racer on its head:eek: , so I'd think you'd want to make sure all the welds are right:cool:

As far as BNB goes, I'll be doing a lot of work myself on the 'reX to get it into "fighting shape" for the GRC. Paul has provided the "foundation" I'm going to build on. I'm also going to use it as a working jig for some other ideas I've got....:cool:

-Bill

Wouldn't bother with the GRC. If you wanna do it, you'll finish higher by flying down buying a sub $2000 auction v12 jag that was detailed before the sale and running it with some decent cheap rubber. Its pretty pathetic how so many there cheat. $100 set of 4 "used" hoosiers with nubs still on the tread!

[dynomatt]

Ben,

My cage sits on boxes...picture hopefully shows this. This is better for a few reasons. If it sits on boxes, you've got 3-4 inches of movement so you can drop the cage down and properly weld the top. The only other option is to cut 2 inch holes in the floor and drop the cage through that whilst you weld the top.

Here's what I mean. You can't see it but my box section at the rear for the main hoop nicely triangulates to the front wall of the back seat, making it very rigid.

In the attached pictures, check out where the front legs attach to the floor. That box section has been made of 3mm plate.

Matt

[benebob]

Yeah ours isn't set up for boxes. We have a rocker bar running the length of the rocker which makes it tough to do boxes but also makes for one strong frame. Eventually we'll run across the front too and over the tranny tunnel. Ours sits about 2 inches from the roof line so welding it shouldn't be a problem. I'm amazed they let you run with that! Every non-vintage US rally car I've seen has about 10 more door bars making a coccoon around there. Definately overkill but I'm sure they have their reasons too.

Yeah I have ours set up right at the rear seat front wall too. Figured that would be the strongest point back there. Where did you mount to the rear strut towers at? That's the next step after I get the floor mount figured out.;)

[rallyingrob]

the other option is to cut holes in the roof and pop-rivet plates over the holes after the welding.....:)

rob"no seriously, i've seen it done........sadly.........:( "m.

[benebob]

Well she's a 5 point cage now. Dave took some pictures of the welding and will post 'em up when he gets a chance.

[Hocrest]

Pics of what you're doing?

Here's a pic of Ben welding, this is pretty much all I saw all night... even the drive home :cool: I've been able to make out shapes today, so I'm hope thats a good sign :rolleyes:
http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/Hocrest/43170.jpg

Here is a shot of cage so far
http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/Hocrest/43171.jpg

[TomsSVX]

Dave... I have an extra mask if u wanted to borrow it... Anyway, looks good from what I can see in the pic....

tom

[jman050]

looks awsome! besides safety im sure that stiffens the chasis more than any strut bars or sway bars could even hope for.

[dynomatt]

Ben,

Here's the base of my main hoop...sorry it's taken so long.

See how it meets the side sills and the front of the rear seat.

Uber strong.

Matt

[rallyingrob]

i like what you've done matt.......
but i'm wondering...did you seam-weld the factory sheet metal under the box?

what i'm wondering is if those seams were welded up and extended (maybe even all the way from side to side) would it add enough to make the effort worthwhile?
or would it just be not necessary/wasted time/effort.......?

my concern would be the box cleaving straight down through the floor due to the point loads since the box is oriented "on-edge" and could possibly split the factory seams and punch down through.......

rob" mr paranoid"m.

[benebob]

Thanks Matt, I feel tons better about my tack welds too now! I think we'll stick with ours the way it is but I think I'll take a piece of 12 gauge steel across that diagonal like you're lower piece. I definately like that concept! Still at the 5 point stage but I'm ironing out the fitment up front

[benebob]

For your viewing pleasure. We now have an 8 point cage in. Still need the door bars but we're getting closer. Come to reading any you'll see it!;)

[TomsSVX]

for my veiwing pleasure... I will only see it in my rear view

Tom

[rallyingrob]

ohhhhhhhh
nice smack talk tom !!

lets turn it over to benebob now for the reply!!........................................... ...........

LMAO

rob"wish i could go to reading"m.

[Hocrest]

for my veiwing pleasure... I will only see it in my rear view

Tom


Yeah, that will happen when you get all nervous about your competition and launch on red.... :p :D

[TomsSVX]

i have never redlighted before. I would rather take a hit on my R/T than lose by default:D At least I won't be confused by the tree:D :D :eek:

Tom

[Hocrest]

At least I won't be confused by the tree:D :D :eek:


Tree??? what tree????? we're gonna be at a drag strip, not a state park :p :p :cool: ;)

[TomsSVX]

Tree??? what tree????? we're gonna be at a drag strip, not a state park :p :p :cool: ;)

I am gonna tell you guys the same thing as I told old Tom.... just remember two words..."Ground Control"... it'll come to you when we are drag racing:D :D :D :D

Tom

[Hocrest]

I am gonna tell you guys the same thing as I told old Tom.... just remember two words..."Ground Control"... it'll come to you when we are drag racing:D :D :D :D

Tom
Unless our driver shows up, the two words I'll be worried about are "Clutch Control".... :( :D

[TomsSVX]

who's your driver??

Tom

[Hocrest]

Ed........