Power window grinding noise

[Brian]

Since this started on a day when my door was frozen shut, I thought (hoped with great denial:rolleyes: ) that it was just a cold weather problem due to a chunk of ice inside the door. But now that it's no longer below freezing outside, and I've even gotten my car washed, there's no way any ice could have survived. When I put my driver's side window down, it makes this awful grinding/scraping/straining noise! :eek: It has started doing it when I put it up too, but not nearly as bad. Besides the noise, the window has no problem going down or up. And besides the normal "scratch pad" tracks, there aren't any marks on the window that I can see.

[immortal_suby]

Could be the cable that raises/lowers the window came off the pulley. Pull off the door panel and have a look before it's too late.

[ensteele]

Could more dirt get into the door and the guide pads. If sand or dirt is on them, it will make a scraping noise. :o

[Brian]

I'll pop the door panel, and see what I can see. If it's the cable-off-the-pulley, that sounds like a quick fix, as long as the cable hasn't stretched. I hope it's not a guide pad problem. I tried cleaning the pads on my 92 last year with the recommended Bon Ami & a tooth brush. It wasn't easy, and it seemed like they only scratched the glass more afterwards! The scratch marks on my 94's driver's side are already pretty severe.

[Brian]

My first look didn't reveal the problem, but I didn't have much time. It was hard to pinpoint where the sound was coming from, but it seemed to be somewhere in the vicinty of behind the door lock nob. The source of the sound may be moving as the window moves. I removed the inner guide pad (window sratcher) closest to the noise, eliminating that as a possible source. (The forward set of pads is nowhere near the noise.) The pulley near the top of the door has the cable running in its groove, like its supposed to.

I can't see everywhere the cable runs, so I guess there may be another pulley that's causing the problem. I could see another pulley near the bottom. I don't think that's where the problem is, but since the cable runs along that pulley's bottom circumference, and my view was from the top, I really couldn't determine much.

I really don't have a good mental picture of how the mechanism works. Too much is obscured by the door's superstructure, etc. I just looked for diagrams on SubaruParts.com, but what I found wasn't helpful. A good schematic of the window mechanism and how the cable is routed might help.

There is a vertical rail-like metal piece that has a squared-off C shape in cross section. The open end of the C faces the exterior of the door, and the closed back of the C faces the interior of the door. The interior of this piece would make the perfect track for a little plastic wheel to run along. I can't see down through that interior because this piece curves along with the door's curvature. Does anyone know if there is a little wheel like that inside? If so, maybe that's what'a causing the noise.

[immortal_suby]

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/immortal_suby/41946.jpg
whole assembly
http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/immortal_suby/41948.jpg
rail and plastic roller
http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/immortal_suby/41949.jpg
lower pulley
http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/immortal_suby/41950.jpg
upper pulley
http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/immortal_suby/41947.jpg
sleeve lock regulator

[ensteele]

You can use silicone spray to make the wheel move inside the track easier. :)

[Brian]

Thanks again Matt and Earl! :) Now I can see that there is a plastic wheel inside the rail, like I imagined. I really hope a little silicone spray will solve the problem!

[Conn SVX]

Mine did it untill I had the heater running for a while then it must have thawed out , no more noise. I think the wheel froze

[Brian]

I bought some silicone spray, and today I finally tried it out. It didn't help at all!:mad: I used a lot of it. I also used a lot of WD-40 (assuming there's a difference) for good measure. I sprayed down the rail's interior as best I could from the top and limilted access from the side. I sprayed down the interior wheel several times when it was close to the top. I sprayed the pulleys and the cable and some of the rail's exterior, and even that thing with the 2 springs on it that sits on the opposite side of the rail from the cable. (What does that thing do?? It doesn't make sense to me!) I ran the window up and down repeatedly. If anything has changed at all, it's gotten worse. I think the window may be starting to have trouble going up. The sound is almost like a ripping noise. When the window is almost near the top, I can hear a popping noise. With the door panel off, I can see that the cable snaps, as it plucked when this popping noise occurs, and the window jolts. (Actually, the movement of the cable may be a result of the jolt, and not the other way around.) The mechanism looks too simple to have something else going on to cause this problem. I really can't explain it given my understanding of the mechanics. But there's a lot obscured from view, so I'm guessing that it's more complex than it looks.

[Hocrest]

With the window about 1/3 of the way from full down, you have access to the 10mm headed bolts that attach the window to the regulator mechanism. Remove those bolts and lift the window manually.

If there is resistance/noise as you manually move the glass then the problem is with one of the top pads or the rail at the front edge of the glass. If the glass moves normally, then put it all the way up and hold it in place with masking tape.

Now use the switch to make the regulator move and see if you can isolate the noise without the glass in the way. If it still makes the noise, then your problem is with the regulator. There are three bolts holding the motor, and four nuts holding the regulator rail in place. Pull the regulator out and rehook the wire. Now you should be able to see the problem and either fix it, or determine that you need a new regulator.

If this doesn't make sense, I can take some pictures to help clarify later tonight.

[Hocrest]

Ok, pics are here...

The first one shows the glass out of the door to illustrate the attachment points for the regulator and also the clip that slides in the front track. Note that it is a passenger window...
http://lh3.google.com/image/hocrest1/ReYkJ0s1weI/AAAAAAAAAzM/fxx75mvNXmc/P2280013.JPG

This photo shows the bolts that attach the glass to the regulator with green arrows. With the window in the upper position, you can only see one of the two bolts, lower the window enough to get access to the other one. The red arrows point to the nuts that attach the regulator rail to the door.
http://lh3.google.com/image/hocrest1/ReYkA0s1wcI/AAAAAAAAAy8/0DSpA6KHWjc/P2280011.JPG

This photo shows the attachment for the bottom of the rail with red arrows, and the bolts that hold the regulator motor to the door with the yellow arrows. If you need to remove the regulator, fold the motor in towards the track and turn the entire mechanism so it is lying flat, then pull it out of the whole.
http://lh6.google.com/image/hocrest1/ReYkHks1wdI/AAAAAAAAAzE/8WU8FelwbWs/P2280012.JPG

[Brian]

Dave, your pictures aren't viewable. I just see the little red X icons. Could you try uploading them again?

I already know that the sound is coming from the vicinity of the main rail, and not near the front of the window. The strange thing is that when I start to put the window up, it sounds like the noise is coming from the top of the rail even when the triangular metal plate with the circular holes and the wheel are still at the bottom of the door. (Is this plate the "regulator"?) But when I put it down, the sound seems to go move downward with it.

[Hocrest]

Go here to view them, http://picasaweb.google.com/hocrest1/Window

It sounds like part of the regulator has come out of the track?? Let me know if you can't get it fixed and need another.

[Brian]

I disconnected the window, and used the contro;s to move the regulator up and down. It still made the noise. I don't think it's possible for part of the regulator to come out of the track. The inside of the rail is to thick for that. The regulator did have more play when it was free of the window, so I rocked it and felt behind it and around the wheels, and I couldn't find a problem. I sprayed more silicone spray. I also squirted some engine oil on the top wheel from the access at the top of the rail, thinking a little more viscosity might help. Do you think it could just need an even more viscous lubricant, like some kind of grease? Maybe the WD-40 and the silicone spray is just disovling what little grease is left on the rail. I can see from some of the photos in this thread, that a thick, clear grease is supposed to be on the rail. What type of grease would be best to use? My dad has a gease gun with some sort of red grease in it, but maybe I need to get another kind. I'm guessing I won't be able to avoid removing the mechanism from the door to grease it.

[Hocrest]

If you have the window disconnected, it isn't that much more to remove the regulator. Once it's out you'll be able to see what the problem is.

Any heavy grease should be fine.

[Brian]

Since it was such a nice day, and I had the day off, I decided to get to the bottom of this problem. Still trying to avoid removing the mechanism from the door, I figured I could lube it while it was in place. I was able to do that, but I made a big mess too, and the noise didn't go away! :mad: Sometimes it sounded like it was coming from the regulator, and other times like it was coming from the top of the rail/upper pulley. I saw that when the window was all the way up, that the lowest exposed inch of cable had a slight bulge in it, as if it had been under compression and the spiral strands had separated a little. I lubed the cable as best I could, including what I could reach of the pulleys and the the spool at the motor. Since that didn't help, I had to remove the whole greasy, slippery mechanism from the door.

Once it was out, I determined that the noise was actually coming from the spool on the motor! :o The sound must have just been carrying through the cable while in the door. I was able to do a better job lubing the spool, pulleys, and cable, and clean up the rest a bit, but to no avail. When the spool rotates, it pulls in cable from one side and feeds cable out from the other side. It seems to be wrapping what it takes in over top of what needs to be fed out. What is being fed out is coming from below the top layer, therefore it's being ripped out of a little trench of cable.

That explains the noise, but not necessarily that bulged section. Either way, it looks like I'll have to replace the regulator soon. I put everything back together, and the window didn't want to go all the way up at first. To my surpise, an outer strand of the cable near the TOP pulley (not the bottom one) had been severed and jumbled up where the cable feeds into the sleeve!:eek: I put the window down, unwrapped that jumbled strand, then cut it off. At least I can get the window up now.