Oil spewing out of the breathers.

[cdigerlando]

I've got oil spewing out of my breathers. Any ideas?

[SVXRide]

Chuck,
Pics of your set up? Normal set up is that the PCV system takes care of this...
-Bill

[ensteele]

Check the PCV valve and see if works. :) That may be your problem. That should not be happening. :o

[oab_au]

Chuck sounds like you are getting boost into the crankcase. How have you got the crankcase ventilation set up?

Harvey.;)

[Trevor]

Chuck sounds like you are getting boost into the crankcase. How have you got the crankcase ventilation set up?

Harvey.;)

I would not expect Chuck to be running his improved engine with faulty piston rings, or be stupid enough to have some other direct cause. :confused:

[cdigerlando]

Chuck sounds like you are getting boost into the crankcase. How have you got the crankcase ventilation set up?

Harvey.;)


I think this is the case. It just started happening, so I don't think it is a problem with my crankcase ventilation, which is ventilated directly to the atmosphere, along with my cam vents. I am thinking either rings as trevor said, or perhaps a hole in the piston. I have had no detonation events that should have caused this. It is an older motor though 135k. It may be time to bite the bullet and just pull the engine and rebuild it.

I am also getting a fuel smell from the vent. I seem to miss once in a while as well.

I think it is pretty apparent from the folks who are using FI that more is required to achieve this. Intercooling and lower compression for starters.

[SVXRide]

Chuck,
ouch:eek: Have you pulled the plugs to see if they tell you anything? Might also be a good idea to check the timing belt - I'm wondering if the intake and exhaust cams are "off" thus throwing off the combustion event (i.e., raw gas being shot out the exhaust, pressurized crankcase gases being pumped out the vents, ...)
-Bill

[cdigerlando]

Haven't pulled the plugs since this has occured. I doubt it is a timing belt issue. It has fairly new timing belt, and it was running fine before this occured.

[SVXRide]

Haven't pulled the plugs since this has occured. I doubt it is a timing belt issue. It has fairly new timing belt, and it was running fine before this occured.

Chuck,
yeah, just trying to come up with something other than "you must have hashed a cylinder":o You still might want to check the cam and crank sensors.
-Bill

[Suby Fan]

you should also check compression that will tell you once and for all if it is the ring or piston

[oab_au]

Haven't pulled the plugs since this has occured. I doubt it is a timing belt issue. It has fairly new timing belt, and it was running fine before this occured.

I don't think it has a engine problem, or there would be a smoke screen out the back.:) Is there any way boost can get from the inlet piping to the crankcase, like the little pipe that runs from the air duct into the crankcase, for the Case ventilation? Any way it can get in there?:)

Harvey.;)

[cdigerlando]

Chuck,
yeah, just trying to come up with something other than "you must have hashed a cylinder":o You still might want to check the cam and crank sensors.
-Bill

I am running stand alone management. So this would not affect anything.

[cdigerlando]

you should also check compression that will tell you once and for all if it is the ring or piston

I would love to do this. Checking the compression on this engine is a nightmare though. Anyone got picks of a good compression test setup would be appreciated.

[cdigerlando]

I don't think it has a engine problem, or there would be a smoke screen out the back.:) Is there any way boost can get from the inlet piping to the crankcase, like the little pipe that runs from the air duct into the crankcase, for the Case ventilation? Any way it can get in there?:)

Harvey.;)

Are you speaking of the pcv? My pcv is disconnected. All of my breathers have ventilated to atmosphere for some time.

[oab_au]

Are you speaking of the pcv? My pcv is disconnected. All of my breathers have ventilated to atmosphere for some time.

Well looking at it Chuck, for the oil to come out the breathers, there has to be, either too much oil in there,:) or there has to be something producing pressure in there to blow the oil out.

If it was a piston or ring problem, there would be smoke out the back. No smoke, no problem.:)

The only logical reason is, that there is boost pressure finding its way into the crankcase. You have the cam breathers open, the PCV valve removed/blocked? All the pipes that run from the air duct, near the throttle bodys, to the rear of the block, are removed/blocked?

I haven't seen a Pict of your setup, so I don't know what you have got there.

Harvey.;)

[Trevor]

Chuck, it would appear that you know exactly what you are about and everything put forward so far is simply telling you "how to suck eggs". I hope you have not been somewhat offended.

My interpretation of your post, was that you are aware of the obvious possibilities and are seeking thoughts on any oddity you may not have thought of. I am confident that you would be awake to any cause for a direct link between inlet manifold and sump.

I gather you now have no positive crankcase ventilation. You have not reported as to the exact extent of the oil discharge. Could it be that what you are experiencing, is what can in fact be expected in view of the age of the engine?

Is the overhead gear receiving too much oil and the return facility therefore inadequate? Possibly this is so and the ventilation is in part, working as a siphon? :confused: :confused:

[Darren]

Hi,

Not totally sure of your set up but we had a starlet turbo with a modified turbo runnng higher boost, the engine started throwing oil out of every place it could.

The problem was diagnosed as pressure getting into the oil feed pipe from a faulty internal seal on the turbo and finally failing in a cloud of white smoke and bits of turbo all over the place, there was no smoking before it let go. After the new turbo was fitted it never happended again & the car is still going strong and being thrashed by the new owner.

[cdigerlando]

Hi,

Not totally sure of your set up but we had a starlet turbo with a modified turbo runnng higher boost, the engine started throwing oil out of every place it could.

The problem was diagnosed as pressure getting into the oil feed pipe from a faulty internal seal on the turbo and finally failing in a cloud of white smoke and bits of turbo all over the place, there was no smoking before it let go. After the new turbo was fitted it never happended again & the car is still going strong and being thrashed by the new owner.

Very interesting. My turbo has very little miles on it. So I'm hoping that is not it. Also I am smelling fuel so I think it is leaking by somewhere after the fuel is injected. I wonder if a head gasket could cause this. Periodically I have seen fuel in my coolant.

Oba-au - I do need to take pics of my setup and post them huh:( . Well the setup is pretty simple actually. PCV off and blocked. Vents venting to atmosphere. The only thing that recirculates are the auxilliary air intake and
idle air controller. EGR disconnected and plugged. Should not be too much oil, but simple things like that are good to mention.

Trevor - No offence ever taken. I appreciate simple and complex possibilities.

Thanks everyone for the ideas. Keep them comming.

Another note to Oba-au. No smoke out the tailpipe. Yep I'm perplexed! Thanks for the vote of confidence in my engine! I do get a fuel smell out of my crankcase though. I've checked the injectors for leaks. Checked them out of the intake with the pump on. No leaks. I think one of the problems I am having now is I removed my cold air intake and the breather vents are close to the intake. With all of this air leaking by, it seems that it could be sucked up by the intake, making fuel difficult to control.

[Trevor]

I wonder if a head gasket could cause this. Periodically I have seen fuel in my coolant.

Trevor - No offence ever taken. I appreciate simple and complex possibilities.

Thanks everyone for the ideas. Keep them comming.



If a head gasket is faulty and an oilway exists from head to crankcase :confused: there could be a troublesome compression leak. :confused:

[cdigerlando]

If a head gasket is faulty and an oilway exists from head to crankcase :confused: there could be a troublesome compression leak. :confused:

This is what I am thinking.

[SVXRide]

Periodically I have seen fuel in my coolant.

.


Chuck,
There has to be a crack/pathway from the combustion chamber to the coolant passages for this to happen. I'm guessing the turbo pressurizing the system is only making it worse. Have you tried using test dye in the radiator? If you're seeing fuel in the coolant, I've got to believe there's also combustion byproducts in it too.
-Bill

[TomsSVX]

downshift!!! If there is a HG leak and compression is leaking to the crank case, downshift it causing a vacum and it should cause smoke to come out the tails;)

Tom

[cdigerlando]

Chuck,
Have you tried using test dye in the radiator?
-Bill

I have. I seem to have an intermittent issue. I may check this again along with some other stuff. The strange thing is it seems the leak is one way. Air leaking to the crankcase, but not the other way around. I may have someone follow me and check the color of my exhaust.

[SVXRide]

I have. I seem to have an intermittent issue. I may check this again along with some other stuff. The strange thing is it seems the leak is one way. Air leaking to the crankcase, but not the other way around. I may have someone follow me and check the color of my exhaust.


It's a shame our plugs are such a PITA to get to...it would be nice to be able to do a leak down check on each cylinder.
-Bill

[Darren]

Hiya Chuck,

This might be a bit of help to you.

4.2 Turbocharger "Seals" andCrankcase Pressure

The turbocharger “seals” play a secondary role in turbocharger oil control since the oil slingers are designed to prevent oil from reaching the seal areas. The primary role of the turbocharger seals is to prevent external gases (i.e., boost pressure and/or exhaust gas) from entering the center housing. Under most operating conditions in a blow-thru configuration, the gas pressures in the compressor and turbine housings are equal to or greater than the gas pressure in the turbocharger center housing (i.e., engine breather pressure). In this configuration, the pressure on the turbocharger seals is from the outside toward the inside and is actually trying to push any oil near the seal areas into the turbo.[/B]

If the engine breather system has been modified so that the engine crankcase cannot breathe and is causing excess crankcase pressure, this pressure is transmitted to the turbocharger center housing via the oil drain tube. In this situation, the crankcase pressure in the turbo center housing may exceed the compressor and/or turbine housing pressure; therefore, the pressure on the turbocharger seals is from the inside toward the outside and the crankcase pressure will push oil out of the center housing into the compressor and turbine housings. Excess crankcase pressure may be caused by engine breather modifications such as improperly installed performance breathers/catch cans or by worn or damaged engine components (i.e., pistons, rings, or cylinder walls) that result in severe combustion gas blow-by that pressurizes the engine crankcase and turbocharger center housing.[/B][/COLOR]

Darren

[cdigerlando]

Hiya Chuck,

This might be a bit of help to you.

4.2 Turbocharger "Seals" andCrankcase Pressure

The turbocharger “seals” play a secondary role in turbocharger oil control since the oil slingers are designed to prevent oil from reaching the seal areas. The primary role of the turbocharger seals is to prevent external gases (i.e., boost pressure and/or exhaust gas) from entering the center housing. Under most operating conditions in a blow-thru configuration, the gas pressures in the compressor and turbine housings are equal to or greater than the gas pressure in the turbocharger center housing (i.e., engine breather pressure). In this configuration, the pressure on the turbocharger seals is from the outside toward the inside and is actually trying to push any oil near the seal areas into the turbo.[/B]

If the engine breather system has been modified so that the engine crankcase cannot breathe and is causing excess crankcase pressure, this pressure is transmitted to the turbocharger center housing via the oil drain tube. In this situation, the crankcase pressure in the turbo center housing may exceed the compressor and/or turbine housing pressure; therefore, the pressure on the turbocharger seals is from the inside toward the outside and the crankcase pressure will push oil out of the center housing into the compressor and turbine housings. Excess crankcase pressure may be caused by engine breather modifications such as improperly installed performance breathers/catch cans or by worn or damaged engine components (i.e., pistons, rings, or cylinder walls) that result in severe combustion gas blow-by that pressurizes the engine crankcase and turbocharger center housing.[/B][/COLOR]

Darren

Basically I vent my crankcase and cams to atmosphere. I have a pretty new turbo. Also this venting occurs when the engine is idling. Thanks for the info. It all helps.

[SURTEESS]

Hey guys - had similar problem with mine a few months ago (it would puff grey smoke at initial stat-up only), I checked PCV valve & all the other standard issues... but to no avail, just could not put my finger on the issue.

Took it along to local agent who has always serviced it for past 10 years (hard to think that I have had it that long!!).

He suggested the Aux. air control valve was blocked or not working (this is a non-serviceable part - yeh right!!!). If you are standing in front of car then the AACV is located under the right inlet bank (header pipes) - look between 1st & second ones you will see a round tapered aluminium tube - it has a square base with 4 bolts attaching it to the block (also has 1 - 2way connector at taper end).

This operates an aux air supply when the engine is cold, operates on a 12 volt supply operating a bi-metal spring (plus the engine getting warm through the aluminium block casting).

When cold the tapered part is fully open, about the size of a NZ 5c piece (dime size) - as the spring & engine warm up then there is a sliding shutter that closes approx 80% off.

Sorry guys but my scanner has died last week - but those of you with 1992 service manuals look at book 2/3, section 2-1 (page 3) Emission control system & vacuum fitting, part 15.
Same drawing is also in section 2-7 (page 3) Fuel injection system, part 15.

Shown fully is in section 2-7 (page 5) AUXILIARY AIR CONTROL VALVE.

Mine was full of oil - he explained that this happens when the car is being used for short stop/start trips.

I got the old one back - soaked it in kero & tested it with 12v supply, works like new (so have a spare!!).

Good luck - from New Zealand.

[cdigerlando]

Hey guys - had similar problem with mine a few months ago (it would puff grey smoke at initial stat-up only), I checked PCV valve & all the other standard issues... but to no avail, just could not put my finger on the issue.

Took it along to local agent who has always serviced it for pas 10 years (hard to think that I have had it that long!!).

He suggested the Aux. air control valve was blocked or not working (this is a non-serviceable part - yeh right!!!). If you are standing in front of car then the AACV is located under the right inlet bank (header pipes) - look between 1st & second ones you will see a round tapered aluminium tube - it has a square base with 4 bolts attaching it to the block (also has 1 - 2way connector at taper end).

This operates an aux air supply when the engine is cold, operates on a 12 volt supply operating a bi-metal spring (plus the engine getting warm through the aluminium block casting).

When cold the tapered part is fully open, about the size of a NZ 5c piece (dime size) - as the spring & engine warm up then there is a sliding shutter that closes approx 80% off.

Sorry guys but my scanner has died last week - but those of you with 1992 service manuals look at book 2/3, section 2-1 (page 3) Emission control system & vacuum fitting, part 15.
Same drawing is also in section 2-7 (page 3) Fuel injection system, part 15.

Shown fully is in section 2-7 (page 5) AUXILIARY AIR CONTROL VALVE.

Mine was full of oil - he explained that this happens when the car is being used for short stop/start trips.

I got the old one back - soaked it in kero & tested it with 12v supply, works like new (so have a spare!!).

Good luck - from New Zealand.

My AACV works well. It has been opened up checked and repiped. Usually this would just affect starting. I don't know how this would affect cam or crankcase pressures.

I may try putting some regular oil in it instead of the synthetic. If nothing happens, I may try some STP :eek: I just would like to finish a few things first before rebuilding.

[cdigerlando]

Posted a photo of my engine bay in my locker.

[oab_au]

Posted a photo of my engine bay in my locker.

Thanks Chuck, sure saves a lot of writing. Does the hood close over the fuel distribution block?

Harvey.;)

[cdigerlando]

Thanks Chuck, sure saves a lot of writing. Does the hood close over the fuel distribution block?

Harvey.;)

Yes. With room to spare. I first tried to place the distribution block below the intake plenum, then in front of it. There was never enought clearance for my comfort level. Breaking the fuel line system could be catostrophic. So I went conservative and placed it on top.

I'll try to get some close up pictures of inside the motor. My wife and son came home when I was taking the photos and disturbed my work. I was wanting to wait until an intercooler was installed as that will change the configuration a bit as you can imagine.

[SURTEESS]

see

http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=36946&highlight=AACV&page=2

post number 28