Which news cast gives the most objective news?

[Electrophil]

After a challenge from another member, I decided to check and objectively see which news agency is the most objective with their news. On air, that's going to take some time. But online is pretty simple.

A new story just broke on a new video tape from one of those terrorist characters. Here are the headlines from various news agencies.

Msnbc-news.com says Video: Al-qaeda carried out 800 martyrdom attacks.

CBSnews.com says Video: Qaeda 'Breaking back' of U.S.

Yahoo.com says al-Zawahri says U.S. 'Broken' in Iraq

NY times says: Al - Zawahri Says U.S. 'Broken' in Iraq

Washington post says: New video from Al-zawahri

Foxnews.com says: Propaganda Blitz?

Well, I'd have to say Fox loses on the very first trial. When I see the news, I'd prefer to hear what happened and form my own opinion. Is the video a propaganda blitz? Well of course it is, but unless they change their name to "Fox opinions", they need to stick to objectively telling us what happened.

If they want to give opinions though, I'd much rather hear how these guys are still around 5 years after Bush said "They will hear us soon!" How come terrorist acts were higher in 2005 than in any previous year in history? Oh! That's right!! Cause they went into Iraq to "fight terrorism". No... wait,,,, that was the second reason they gave that was disproven. We are on the "Freedom building" now... or has it flip flopped again?

[Electrophil]

By the way, Who is the most objective news source?

[ensteele]

It seems that you are so far to the left that it doesn't really matter what anyone can say, because you already have your bias or mind made up. You judged Fox on one headline and not the majority of news reporting. That is where you will find the difference. :)

[Landshark]

i'd say Fox. :D

[Electrophil]

Earl, I'm going to check more. I think it will be an excellent test.

That was one. There's gonna be more.

[ensteele]

Ok. Look at the reporting instead of just the headlines though. What is reported is where the differences are. :)

[Landshark]

Earl, I'm going to check more. I think it will be an excellent test.

That was one. There's gonna be more.

i'm sure your test will be very objective. :p




no, really.

[Electrophil]

Ok. Look at the reporting instead of just the headlines though. What is reported is where the differences are. :)

But the mindset has already been established. It's just like on the news cast where everytime they talk about Iraq, they immediately have "War on Terror" in bold letters to the side of the newscaster. It's all subliminal.

[Electrophil]

i'm sure your test will be very objective. :p




no, really.

:eek: :eek: You are suggesting my over the top and intense hatred for Fox news will taint my results? :eek: :eek:

I pull out a white glove and use it to strike thy face! :eek: :p :D

[Electrophil]

This one was just all over the place. Were they drug charges, "pill" charges, or just doctor shopping?

cbsnews.com : Rush Limbaugh Arrested On Drug Charges

foxnews.com: Rush Limbaugh Turns Himself in on Pill Charges

msnbc.msn.com: Limbaugh reaches settlement in drugs case

Yahoo.com: Rush Limbaugh plea

news.google.com: Limbaugh Pleads Not Guilty to Doctor Shopping

cnn.com: Rush Limbaugh charged but may avoid trial

I hand the "most misleading" award to news.google.com on this one. Nobody charged him with "doctor shopping" that I know of.... Maybe they did.

Fox runs a close second on misleading for 2 reasons: reason #1: Saying "pill" charges waters down the facts to make it sound less offensive. He was charged with "drug" offensives. Being in "pill" form is assumed.

and of course, reason #2: I hate Fox news.

[lhopp77]

He was in fact charged with doctor shopping to obtain "legal" drugs in pill form, so it appears that all are equally correct. I actually don't have much problem with how any of them headlined the story. The total content was what was important. Pure use of the term "drugs" implies illegal drugs, but then abuse of legal drugs can also be illegal. Anyway---this is not the kind of story that is politically sensitive except in the minds of the liberals. Limbaugh was wrong and as he admitted addicted to pain medications. Treatment--end of story.

Lee

[Electrophil]

Yeah, to be honest, I could care less myself. It's his body.

[Manarius]

Fox is always farthest to the right. I mean...come on...it's Rupert Merdoch.

NBC is seen as having the most non-spun nightly news broadcast. I like ABC myself.

[Landshark]

I pull out a white glove and use it to strike thy face! :eek: :p :D


you will pull back a stump. ;) :D



how about: just watch the news you like? personally, i get my news from NASIOC OT :D , but my wife watches Fox News.

[Noir]

hands down, polls up:

Naked News. THE MOST objective news source evAr! ....and they have the best presentation hands down, polls up! :p

[ensteele]

NBC is seen as having the most non-spun nightly news broadcast.

By who? :confused: :rolleyes:

[lhopp77]

Fox is always farthest to the right. I mean...come on...it's Rupert Merdoch.

NBC is seen as having the most non-spun nightly news broadcast. I like ABC myself.

Of course, I know you are kidding. If you are not--you are totally out of touch with reality. I admit that I am a conservative, but I can be very objective in evaluating various networks without letting my conservatism cloud my judgement.

I will be the first to admit that generally speaking that FOX is more of a conservative station. However, they are fair and balanced in REPORTING NEWS with representatives from both sides of the issue given equal time. NO OTHER channel does that consistently.

I do watch the other networks just to get their "spin" and believe me there is much of it.

Lee

[lhopp77]

hands down, polls up:

Naked News. THE MOST objective news source evAr! ....and they have the best presentation hands down, polls up! :p

Did you misspell "polls"? :D :p

Lee

[Electrophil]

you will pull back a stump. ;) :D

.

In which I would reply "I'm stumped by your madness!" :D

[Noir]

Did you misspell "polls"? :D :p

Lee

no i sure didn't. :)

i did that on purpose. :)

[Bipa]

Well, we'll be getting a new digital sattelite TV system soon. The owner should be installing it sometime next month and I'm really getting psyched up about it. We'll be able to watch Al-Jazeera! Between BBC, CNN and Al-Jazeera, I'll finally be able to get balanced reporting from ALL perspectives :cool:

Now I just gotta learn Arabic :p

[lhopp77]

Between BBC, CNN and Al-Jazeera, I'll finally be able to get balanced reporting from ALL perspectives :cool:


I seriously doubt that those 3 could be considered balanced by any standard. ;)

Lee

[Electrophil]

I find the english news website al-jazeera maintains so bland, and so ... almost american, I wonder if the real one is hidden under it like some sort of conspiracy. It's like reading a CBS site.

http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

[Electrophil]

Typical article on al-jazeera's website. http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/A0F9B15E-1838-4842-96E3-6F08EA82DC2A.htm

Huh? I don't get it. Read that thing. I find it hard to believe somebody in Bahrain wrote that.

[Electrophil]

OK, backing up a few days. Remember the Limbaugh thing where Fox news had it headlined "Pill Charges"? Just a simple headline that said "Limbaugh claims innocence on pill charges."

Uhmmm... "Pill" Charges. Maybe they looked at it as prescription medication, regardless of how he got them, and decided "Drug charges" gave the wrong perception to the American people. A kind of "Fair and Balanced" reporting for the masses, regardless of political leanings of the people involved. After all, it was a prescription medication. Not really "drugs". They were.... pills. (Snicker.)

I think that's the case. They are sooo fair and balanced. No hoopla, no exagerations, NO SPIN.

Of course, headlining today's article on Kennedy's Ambien mishap as "DRUG DISTORTION?" in all capital letters makes sense in keeping with their fair and balanced prescription "pill" perceptions. (Heavy on that sarcasm...) :)

[Suby Fan]

you want objective news turn off that crap your watching on the tv.. they care more about ratings and ad money then actual news.... turn that old radio and turn it to NPR (National Public Radio) they are excelent... And they have Car Talk! love that program!

[lhopp77]

OK, backing up a few days. Remember the Limbaugh thing where Fox news had it headlined "Pill Charges"? Just a simple headline that said "Limbaugh claims innocence on pill charges."

Uhmmm... "Pill" Charges. Maybe they looked at it as prescription medication, regardless of how he got them, and decided "Drug charges" gave the wrong perception to the American people. A kind of "Fair and Balanced" reporting for the masses, regardless of political leanings of the people involved. After all, it was a prescription medication. Not really "drugs". They were.... pills. (Snicker.)

I think that's the case. They are sooo fair and balanced. No hoopla, no exagerations, NO SPIN.

Of course, headlining today's article on Kennedy's Ambien mishap as "DRUG DISTORTION?" in all capital letters makes sense in keeping with their fair and balanced prescription "pill" perceptions. (Heavy on that sarcasm...) :)

I am not and have never been a Limbaugh fan and as noted previously I said I did not have any problems with the various news agency leads on the Limbaugh story as long as the got the story right.

However, I will point out that there are SIGNIFICANT differences in the Kennedy story and the Limbaugh story. Limbaugh was aggressively investigated by liberal haters based on leaks that he was addicted to painkillers. He was NEVER noticeably under the influence in public.

Kennedy was in an accident under the influence which was the reason for the story. He will get off because he is a Kennedy and proper tests were not done at the time---because he is a Kennedy. You remember---like his dad years ago.

Again, I don't have any problems with the headlines as long as the story is reported correctly.

I am sure that conservatives WILL go on a feeding frenzy over the Kennedy situation, but it was a very public incident that started it.

Lee

[mohrds]

you want objective news turn off that crap your watching on the tv.. they care more about ratings and ad money then actual news.... turn that old radio and turn it to NPR (National Public Radio) they are excelent... And they have Car Talk! love that program!

You are joking right? I listen to NPR regularly and they give you both sides of the story, the center and the far left! :eek:

besides, click and clack are really annoying.

[mohrds]

I am sure that conservatives WILL go on a feeding frenzy over the Kennedy situation, but it was a very public incident that started it.


The public should go crazy, not just the conservatives. The cop said on the national news that the guy smelled of alcohol but they were ordered to NOT give him a breathalyzer and instead drive him home.

If I lived in that area I think I'd be recalling that police chief. It was a blatent abuse of power.

Hell, our state's attorney general was arrested and convicted for driving drunk and she is the state's highest ranking police official. Granted the govenor giving her job back to her was a mistake, but that is another story.

[mohrds]

As for the most fair news reporting agency:

THERE ARE NONE!

Welcome to the Millennium of Agenda-based Reporting.

No one tells you what happened and only what happened without fluff. You just need to pick the fluff you like best.

For me, I usually watch NBC or ABC at dinnertime and then the BBC on public TV after that. It doesn't give me the whole story, but it gives me the subject matter so I can go dig up more opinions of the story online.

Doug

[Electrophil]

Well Lee, I'm still looking for that accountability thing. Since I posted about it, the story has deepened. Now this guy is going into rehab.

Now that's fine. People go into rehab. Especially those rich guys...whatever. Where they have their mail sent is up to them. But he just got out of rehab in December. I didn't know that. In fact, this guy has been in and out of rehab since he was a teenager? And he's a (*&^*&%% 'en CONGRESSMAN?? :eek: :eek:

He's claiming he doesn't remember anything about the entire incident. He doesn't remember getting up, getting in his car, the accident, or being taken home by the police. Why is this important? Because he was on his way to press a button on the back of a chair. A button that affects every one of us. This star trek reject was on his way to cast a vote. :eek:

Now first, these 1:30am votes that crook Delay started has got to stop. He started it to scam the system, he succeeded, he's gone. They shouldn't be holding sessions at 1:30 in the morning. But more importantly, don't go voting on legislation in that condition. The idiot would have no idea whether he went yay or nay. Somebody needs to latch on to that in the news. Throw his rear out of congress, and stop these early morning votes. What is it with this lack of accountability?

This guy made a comment that he has suffered from depression and addictions his entire life. WTF is he doing in congress in the first place?

[Electrophil]

The public should go crazy, not just the conservatives. The cop said on the national news that the guy smelled of alcohol but they were ordered to NOT give him a breathalyzer and instead drive him home.

If I lived in that area I think I'd be recalling that police chief. It was a blatent abuse of power.




Holy Anti-matter Batman! Doug and I actually agree on something!
We have to be careful on that, or we'll end up in rehab with that jackoff.

[Bipa]

This guy made a comment that he has suffered from depression and addictions his entire life. WTF is he doing in congress in the first place?

Err....umm.... shouldn't the real question be, why the heck would anyone vote for him? Obviously, quite a lot of folks did! So either he was the best of a very sorry bunch of candidates, or else the voters need some rehab, too. :(

Or else somehow he got appointed, annointed, inherited the post, bought his way in, or some other method I haven't heard about yet? :rolleyes:

[lhopp77]

Now that's fine. People go into rehab. Especially those rich guys...whatever. Where they have their mail sent is up to them. But he just got out of rehab in December. I didn't know that. In fact, this guy has been in and out of rehab since he was a teenager? And he's a (*&^*&%% 'en CONGRESSMAN?? :eek: :eek:

He's claiming he doesn't remember anything about the entire incident. He doesn't remember getting up, getting in his car, the accident, or being taken home by the police. Why is this important? Because he was on his way to press a button on the back of a chair. A button that affects every one of us. This star trek reject was on his way to cast a vote. :eek:

Now first, these 1:30am votes that crook Delay started has got to stop. He started it to scam the system, he succeeded, he's gone. They shouldn't be holding sessions at 1:30 in the morning. But more importantly, don't go voting on legislation in that condition. The idiot would have no idea whether he went yay or nay. Somebody needs to latch on to that in the news. Throw his rear out of congress, and stop these early morning votes. What is it with this lack of accountability?

This guy made a comment that he has suffered from depression and addictions his entire life. WTF is he doing in congress in the first place?

I should ask the same thing about his father the Senator. He should have been in jail a long time ago instead of the Senate. A very strong proponent of the "poor" and taking away our money, yet he keeps his so he pays no or very little taxes on it.

As to the late votes, I think you will find that the house had adjourned over 3hours before the incident. Just reserve your final opinion of DeLay until he is found not guilty of all charges or they are tossed out before trial. Was he instrumental in some type of jerrymandering in Tex---probably, just like the Demos do when they are in the majority. (I am NOT a strong support of DeLay either, but I think it is fairly obvious that this is mostly a case of an overzealous Demo prosecutor that is trying to further his own career at the expense of someone else.----that is the part that bothers me.)

It seems we do agree on a few things here, though. :)

Lee

[lhopp77]

Err....umm.... shouldn't the real question be, why the heck would anyone vote for him? Obviously, quite a lot of folks did! So either he was the best of a very sorry bunch of candidates, or else the voters need some rehab, too. :(

Or else somehow he got appointed, annointed, inherited the post, bought his way in, or some other method I haven't heard about yet? :rolleyes:

The same kind of people that vote/voted for his father and senile congressmen such as Byrd and Thurmond--and a multitude of other liberal democrats. :rolleyes:

Lee :D

[Bipa]

As for the most fair news reporting agency:

THERE ARE NONE!

Welcome to the Millennium of Agenda-based Reporting.

No one tells you what happened and only what happened without fluff. You just need to pick the fluff you like best.

For me, I usually watch NBC or ABC at dinnertime and then the BBC on public TV after that. It doesn't give me the whole story, but it gives me the subject matter so I can go dig up more opinions of the story online.

Doug

Well, actually, weren't most newspapers started by people wanting to get their own opinion across? Most smaller local papers still follow the time honoured tradition of having their editorial boards (or simply the editor) sit down and decide which candidates to support during an election. The TV stations pretend to be a bit more neutral, but there's just no way a human being won't put some spin on any story.

Way back in school, I remember being taught the difference between an observation and a conclusion. As soon as a journalist draws a conclusion, then the story is no longer a simple report but contains one or more opinions which may or may not be true depending on your perspective.

I don't expect balanced reporting from any source, and expect there to be some leaning in one direction or the other. It is up to me as the reader/viewer/listener to seek out the observations and draw my own conclusions.

A simple example: most car accidents AREN'T accidents, are they? Usually due to driver error, or bad maintenance, or some other preventable cause. Yet they are mostly reported in the news as accidents. Oh, well....

[Suby Fan]

You are joking right? I listen to NPR regularly and they give you both sides of the story, the center and the far left! :eek:

besides, click and clack are really annoying.

WHAT how could you not love the tapit brothers???... and NPR actually doesnt swing any way its just when a news report is unbiased, republicans like to call that "left wing reporting" you want to hear left wing propaganda listen to Air America (its onnn the left of your dail)

[Electrophil]

Al Franken cracks me up. I actually read one of his books once. Hilarious.
Ah... now it comes to me. I think it was like "Lies, and the lying lyers who tell them." Apparently, he wrote it using a bunch of students at Harvard to do his research. Literally cracked me up.

If a person went any farther left than Air America, they'd fall off the earth. :D

Lee: If you came into power, and had all those guys up there in DC following your every whim. (Lord help us.) What is the one thing you would change in our country?

[dromano]

:rolleyes: FOX's O'Rielly sez up front that he is reporting his "opinion" of a story. The best way to be free of the reporting from the right is to use your V chip. Or just watch CBS & CNN, and listen to NPR, and read any TIMES publication. What does everyone think of the way the NY TIMES catches criticism from O"Rielly for piling on the US military with stories that stir up the terrorists?:rolleyes:

[mohrds]

:rolleyes: FOX's O'Rielly sez up front that he is reporting his "opinion" of a story.

They should be forced to put that at the begining of ALL news broadcasts.

I can't think of a single newscaster that I have witnessed telling the facts and only the facts.

Its just a matter of which "spin" you prefer.

I don't think if you took reports from 50 different newscasts and cross-referenced the information if you would be able to find the truth of the story.

I guess its just a sign of the times...

[Electrophil]

It's really embarrassing to say this, but it appears the English version of Al-jazeera is the most objective. Every story I seem to read is just "this happened. this person said this, and this person said this, then this happened".

And that's it. It has, on the surface, no slant in either direction.

Personally, I find that to be shocking.

[Suby Fan]

actuly its intresting you should mention that because the news papers in Costa Rica are the same way... and it SUCKS!! its sooo boring to read about.. even stuff that would be intresting like kids in schools blowing up bathrooms with pipe bombs...

[dromano]

It's really embarrassing to say this, but it appears the English version of Al-jazeera is the most objective. Every story I seem to read is just "this happened. this person said this, and this person said this, then this happened".

And that's it. It has, on the surface, no slant in either direction.

Personally, I find that to be shocking.

It's what they talk about, not how they talk about it. The fact that it being aired is a form of spin or bias...:D :D :D

[Electrophil]

I'm going to stop calling it news, and just call them all professional bloggers.

[dromano]

I'm going to stop calling it news, and just call them all professional bloggers.

I think the key to watching and listening to news souces is to develope an experience data base to be able to filter the fluff from the real info...;) ;) ;)

[Electrophil]

I think the key to watching and listening to news souces is to develope an experience data base to be able to filter the fluff from the real info...;) ;) ;)

I have to fully agree with that.

(Translation: Post-ho' saying "Me Too!" Post count +1 to 2,665)

[lhopp77]

It's what they talk about, not how they talk about it. The fact that it being aired is a form of spin or bias...:D :D :D

But what is even more damning is the news that is NOT reported at all as was the case prior to FOX. That is controlling the news in the worst possible sense. At least on Fox you get both sides--for the 100th time.

How many of you heard about the scandal in the UK of Kerry with a 24 year old during his run for office? None, probably unless you read the British press. At the same time the Democrats were attacking Bush's character?????
Are you kidding me????

Just read the liberal press headlines and then read the story in it entirety. Frequently VERY misleading if it supports their editorial philosophy. And no matter how you liberals try to deny it--the press (particularly printed) is OVERWHELMINGLY liberal.


Lee

[Electrophil]

But what is even more damning is the news that is NOT reported at all as was the case prior to FOX. That is controlling the news in the worst possible sense. At least on Fox you get both sides--for the 100th time.

How many of you heard about the scandal in the UK of Kerry with a 24 year old during his run for office? None, probably unless you read the British press. At the same time the Democrats were attacking Bush's character?????
Are you kidding me????

Just read the liberal press headlines and then read the story in it entirety. Frequently VERY misleading if it supports their editorial philosophy. And no matter how you liberals try to deny it--the press (particularly printed) is OVERWHELMINGLY liberal.


Lee

I still don't get this liberal media hype. If the vast majority is printing the same story, then ...... that must be the story. It isn't leaning either way.

If 2 news outlets are printing a story, and the other 100,000 outlets aren't, then chances are, that story is bogus.

The election has been over for 2 years, and this is the first I've heard of Kerry with a 24 year old. No one reported it that I know of. I guess that goes with logic. I doubt if Kerry could get an 80 year old goat to sleep with him. He's got that certain Herman Munster appeal. :D

[Electrophil]

At least on Fox you get both sides--for the 100th time.


Lee

Lee, I somehow missed this statement the first time I read it.

This statement deserves a reply, and the reply was eloquently stated by Stephen Colbert during the President's Correspondents dinner.

Quote: "Both sides: The president's side, and the Vice President's side."

[lhopp77]

Lee, I somehow missed this statement the first time I read it.

This statement deserves a reply, and the reply was eloquently stated by Stephen Colbert during the President's Correspondents dinner.

Quote: "Both sides: The president's side, and the Vice President's side."

That makes for a funny liberal line, but you know it is not even close to the truth. Some of the most far left liberals are invited to provide there side at the same time as the conservative. Hillary has a standing invitation to present her side on any issue she desires as do most far left liberals. Most will not dare show up.

On the other networks there is rarely ANY effort at balanced reporting. You are extremely naive too if you think that a news story is simply a news story and is reported purely as "news" with no editorializing. Like I have said before, I have seen the liberal press at work in Vietnam where they would question 7 or 8 different soldiers until they found the one that was saying what they wanted to report. This should have been reported as 1 out of 8 soldiers have this opinion, but was in fact reported as the only opinion of soldiers in the field. Was it news about the one soldiers ideas---yes---was it slanted reporting. You bet your a-- it was slanted reporting and that is what happened most frequently prior to Fox.

That is why the Liberals are so set against Fox---fair reporting is being done for the first time in many many years.

Lee

[Electrophil]

I don't know about "liberals", but the democratic party started boycotting Fox years ago due to the unprofessional behaviour of O'Really, and Handmeidiocy over time. All the "turn off his mike!!" crap.

They don't boycott any other news organizations. Just that one.

Fox! Where we turn news into a terrorist activity.

[WGJ]

So I brought you this:

Headline torn from the front page of today's (060206) Pravda:

Who will teach the White House some core values?
"God take revenge on the Americans and those who brought them here. They have no regard for our lives.'' Those are the heart wrenching words of a brother whose sister has just been gunned down by trigger-happy young Marines in Samara, while she was racing towards her maternity hospital. For how many people is he speaking? Millions? Billions?

That's a damned good question:
"For how many people is he speaking? Millions? Billions?" While you guys are debating our crappy domestic news, how about what the rest of the world thinks/writes? Is Pravda representative? Are Americans considered the A-holes of the Earth by most of the rest of the planet?

Apparently our Fearless Leader, George "I'm a uniter, not a divider" BUSH has SUCCEEDED AT SOMETHING!...uniting most of the rest of the planet against us!
You're off the hook Lee, I found one thing he's done well...
WGJ

[Electrophil]

So I brought you this:

Headline torn from the front page of today's (060206) Pravda:

Who will teach the White House some core values?
"God take revenge on the Americans and those who brought them here. They have no regard for our lives.'' Those are the heart wrenching words of a brother whose sister has just been gunned down by trigger-happy young Marines in Samara, while she was racing towards her maternity hospital. For how many people is he speaking? Millions? Billions?

That's a damned good question:
"For how many people is he speaking? Millions? Billions?" While you guys are debating our crappy domestic news, how about what the rest of the world thinks/writes? Is Pravda representative? Are Americans considered the A-holes of the Earth by most of the rest of the planet?

Apparently our Fearless Leader, George "I'm a uniter, not a divider" BUSH has SUCCEDED AT SOMETHING!...uniting most of the rest of the planet against us!
You're off the hook Lee, I found one thing he's done well...
WGJ

You're right, and personally I'm hearing more and more of this "Take revenge on America." This administration has buried us with terrorism for generations to come. Taking the terrorism to the enemy my rear... They have developed more terrorists in the last 3 years than has existed in the world over the last 30.

[lhopp77]

You guys are soooo very right-----NOT :rolleyes: . It is because of Bush that there was the current plot in Canada to blow up the intelligence headquarters.

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS---we are fighting the terrorists overseas to keep from fighting them here. Canada hs been very helpful and sympathic to the Muslims terrorists and where did it get them---IT JUST MADE IT EASIER TO TARGET THEM.

Look at the problems with the Muslim radicals in Europe in countries that are not friendly to the US and that have not supported the US war on terrorism.

:rolleyes: :eek: :o :( :rolleyes:

Lee

[Electrophil]

Canada hs been very helpful and sympathic to the Muslims terrorists and where did it get them---IT JUST MADE IT EASIER TO TARGET THEM.


:rolleyes: :eek: :o :( :rolleyes:

Lee

Canada has been "Helpful" and "Sympathetic" to Muslim terrorists?

Well....... This should turn out interesting.

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/Electrophil/33842.gif

OK, Let's start with a US citizen rebuttal, and not touch the "Helpful and Sympathetic" part. Leave that to the Canucks...

Canada tried something wild, crazy, and different on this. Outrageous thought, and new age thinking as it is, they "PREVENTED" the attack prior to it occurring through their normal constitutional guidelines.

The Bush Administration has observed this and are studying the idea, but so far, I think they feel it may be too radical of an idea to institute in the states, without bugging their citizens.

[Electrophil]

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS---we are fighting the terrorists overseas to keep from fighting them here.
Lee

And second point. Burning down your neighbor's tree to keep from leaves falling in your yard is illegal and immoral. The whole neighborhood will hold a grudge against you, and pay you back once you get out of jail. If.... your house is still there when you get out of jail. It's an extremely small world in today's times.

[WGJ]

the subject of the thread is the media and world opinion...what the hell does your tangent into Canada and where we're fighting have to do with media/ world opinion?

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD...your off track AGAIN!
WGJ

[Bipa]

Pass the popcorn Robert, this movie is labelled a light comedy but it runs a little long :p

You guys are soooo very right-----NOT :rolleyes: . It is because of Bush that there was the current plot in Canada to blow up the intelligence headquarters.
Because of Bush? You could actually be correct with that one! :eek:

intelligence headquarters? FACT: no targets confirmed!

"The suspects were allegedly planning to launch attacks in southern Ontario, but officials would not specify targets."
RCMP behind bomb material
Toronto Star, June 4, 2006
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1149371435834&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154

"While ruling out the TTC, police refused to identify the actual targets of the alleged terrorists."
[ed.note: TTC = Toronto Transit Commission - public transit]
TTC was not a target:' RCMP
Toronto Star, June 4, 2006
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1149371435772&call_pageid=1149329604487&col=1149329604479


"Commissioner McDonell alleged that the suspects were part of a homegrown terror cell intent on launching attacks against targets in Southern Ontario.
....
Media reports Saturday alleged that the suspects engaged in terror training camps north of Toronto. It was further alleged that the group was plotting to attack targets in Toronto, including the headquarters of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.
....
Mr. Thomson said the list of possible targets for such terrorist measures is almost without limit in a large, urban centre like Toronto. But he added that terrorists usually pinpoint their targets before collecting their weapons."
Massive terror attack averted: RCMP
Globe and Mail
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060603.wwarrants0603_3/BNStory
[ed. note: CSIS intelligence HQ is in Ottawa, not Toronto]

"While the intended target is unclear, the plan was to detonate an explosive device in Ontario, a source who asked not to be named told Canadian Press."
Terrorism raids sweep Toronto
Globe and Mail
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060603.wwarrants0603_2/BNStory

"Police declined to identify the intended targets because the investigation is ongoing but said they were all in southern Ontario and did not include the Toronto transit system, as some media outlets had reported."
National Post
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=de3f8e90-982a-47af-8e5e-a1366fd5d6cc&k=46849


GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS---we are fighting the terrorists overseas to keep from fighting them here. Canada hs been very helpful and sympathic to the Muslims terrorists and where did it get them---IT JUST MADE IT EASIER TO TARGET THEM.
Hmmm.... yes, I see your point. Canada has had way too many terrorist attacks in the last 10 years or so, while the USA has had barely any. If the number of attacks is any indication of sympathy towards terrorism, then there's a problem with logic here. Nevermind...on to my main point.

Since you prefer US sources, let's go with something a bit more official than just a news story:

Interview on Face the Nation with Bob Schieffer and Mike Duffy
Secretary Condoleezza Rice
Washington, DC
June 4, 2006

QUESTION: Madame Secretary, Friday night in the suburbs of Toronto, as you now know, the Canadian police arrested 17 people on suspicion of terrorism. They had three times the amount of explosives that was used to blow up the federal building in Oklahoma City. They apparently had some sort of contact with two Americans from Georgia. What can you tell us about this?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, first of all, it's obviously a very great success for the Canadian counterterrorism efforts, which we know have been very robust. Really since September 11th, Canada has been very active in the war on terror. We have very good cooperation. I don't think we know very much more about it and we certainly don't believe that there's any link to the United States, but obviously we will follow up. And we have excellent counterterrorism cooperation; I think we will get whatever information we need. But it's obviously a great success for the Canadians. They're to be congratulated for it.

QUESTION: Well, it sounds as if they were planning to blow up some of the national institutions in Canada, or at least that seemed to be the plan. We know they had contact with two men who have been arrested on terrorism suspicion in this country from Georgia. One of them was a Georgia Tech student, I believe. Do we have any indication that they were trying to plan some sort of an attack on anything in this country?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, we don't have any indication, but let me just say obviously this is an ongoing operation, ongoing investigation. I think it's best not to talk about whatever details there may be. But we have excellent counterterrorism cooperation with Canada and I'm quite certain that if there is any further information to be passed, that it will be.

http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2006/67505.htm


Look at the problems with the Muslim radicals in Europe in countries that are not friendly to the US and that have not supported the US war on terrorism.
Yes, you're absolutely correct! Europe is having huge problems in trying to ban headscarves and other religious symbols from public institutions such as schools. Definitely as a direct result of not whole-heartedly joining the US in its outright war on terror. But...umm...wait a sec.... European nations ARE closely cooperating with US security and intelligence agencies.

Lee, name one European country that ISN'T cooperating with the US either by sending troops or using HUMINT or sharing info through INTERPOL or other ways. And I'll give you an example where that country did cooperate. Up to the challenge? :p

[lhopp77]

Canada tried something wild, crazy, and different on this. Outrageous thought, and new age thinking as it is, they "PREVENTED" the attack prior to it occurring through their normal constitutional guidelines.

The Bush Administration has observed this and are studying the idea, but so far, I think they feel it may be too radical of an idea to institute in the states, without bugging their citizens.

It hardly takes a rocket scientist to realize something is wrong when someone is stockpiling tons of explosive fertilizer--like 3 times what was used in the OKC bombing. Even south Alabama, bubba sheriff could figure that one out. Success is great, but hardly a big job of figuring out something was going on. ;)

Besides we do not know all of the details. Canada may have been tipped off about the whole thing by the US after the Georgia connection thing.

Lee

[lhopp77]

Lee, name one European country that ISN'T cooperating with the US either by sending troops or using HUMINT or sharing info through INTERPOL or other ways. And I'll give you an example where that country did cooperate. Up to the challenge? :p

I have not problem with this. It is very true that the US intelligence and law enforcement agencies have very good relations with European like agencies and exchange information regularly. But, a war such as this is a propaganda war as well as an actual fighting war. It is in the verbal support or lack thereof side that European governments are lacking and provide moral support to the terrorists.

A major problem with Canada is there lax immigration laws/enforcement that allows many terrorists and terrorist sympathizers to enter enabling easy access to the US. While are borders "leak" badly, we at least screen personnel entering through normal transportation means.

And the NSA foreign/domestic connection wiretapping damn sure goes a ways in keeping an eye on terrorists and people in the US that have a relationship with them. I am very happy that such a program is in force. :)

Lee

[Bipa]

But, a war such as this is a propaganda war as well as an actual fighting war. The US Gov't has access to some of the best promotional and advertising brains in the world, esp. in New York and Hollywood. Surely a little quality propaganda shouldn't be all that hard to come up with? The fact that the USA is perceived by many to be losing the propaganda war is actually quite astounding! :eek:
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Am I the only one to see a contradiction in the following two statements?

1.A major problem with Canada is there lax immigration laws/enforcement that allows many terrorists and terrorist sympathizers to enter enabling easy access to the US.
2. ...but purely our internal affairs should be of no concern to you unless you are an American citizen that plans to come back to live in this country.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
While are borders "leak" badly, we at least screen personnel entering through normal transportation means.
Guess you've never heard of the towns of Stanstead, Quebec, and Derby Line, Vermont? :)
http://www.clui.org/clui_4_1/lotl/v29/images/500/2005-08-10-05-53-29.jpg
Can you tell which side is USA and which is Canada? :p
http://www.clui.org/clui_4_1/lotl/v29/m.html


And the NSA foreign/domestic connection wiretapping damn sure goes a ways in keeping an eye on terrorists and people in the US that have a relationship with them. I am very happy that such a program is in force. :)
http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/Bipa/36199.jpg

:p :D

[WGJ]

And the NSA foreign/domestic connection wiretapping damn sure goes a ways in keeping an eye on terrorists and people in the US that have a relationship with them. I am very happy that such a program is in force.

WGJ