crank pulley issues

[Iceman59718]

What's up fellow SVXers?

I recently posted about having the serious electrical issues. Well, I've changed the alternator and all is well with the charging system, but I still need to find and kill my remaining electrical gremlins. Anyway, my lack of cruise, blinkers, and power door locks is no longer my concern. I've been driving my Jetta which doesn't compare to driving the SVX so even with the electrical issues I've felt the need to still drive my SVX occasionally. I took it to work last night and was at a stoplight when I heard a fairly nasty vibration coming from the engine. When I stopped to take a look I found the noise to be coming from the front of the engine and it would appear that my crank pulley is wobbling. Is this the case? I've already searched on the topic and found very little so please don't flame me. If this is the issue I have no reservations about changing it. My question is if anyone has heard anything about the Motorsport crank pulley. I figure if I'm gonna change it why not put on a lighter one and see if I can cut down on parasitic losses. Also, what's the easiest way to get the crank pulley off? I found in one of the posts that someone used a strap wrench and a breaker bar. Any other tricks I should know? Thanks in advance.

Cheers,

-Dave

[AFBeefcake]

The Motorsport crank pulley would work fine and I think it is cheaper then a new OEM pulley. Just stay with a stock size pulley. I run lightened pulleys on both of my cars without any problems.

[dcarrb]

I've been running the Motorsport 1-piece OEM sized pulley with no troubles for a good while now, but some think it best to stick with the stock "harmonic balancer." (Gotta figure they made it that way for a reason.) Not to flame, but if you didn't specifically search "crank pulley," you should. I recall a few fairly detailed threads on the topic that could help you make an informed decision. Good luck.

dcb

[SVXRide]

you could do what I did when my stock damper started "wobbling" --- find someone who had switched to an aftermarket damper and offer to buy their old stock damper;)
-Bill

[dcarrb]

I once found a place online called the "Damper Doctor" that quoted me a rebuild price considerably lower than the cost of new OEM, but of course, you have to send them your old pulley for a rebuild. They were in California. Google 'em and see what's what.

dcb

[SVXRide]

I once found a place online called the "Damper Doctor" that quoted me a rebuild price considerably lower than the cost of new OEM, but of course, you have to send them your old pulley for a rebuild. They were in California. Google 'em and see what's what.

dcb


if it's the same thing that happened to mine, the metal part of the damper is actually cracked. You'd have to weld it up and rebalance the unit.
-Bill

p.s. another option is dropping a PM on LAN and see if he can't cut you a stock sized damper, as he's got his equipment set up to do them in support of his s/c efforts

[intelisevil]

Another option would be to get a stock pulley from a Legacy (and maybe some other models). Same diameter, same grooves, bolts right up. I'm sure you can find a few of those in your local junkyard . . .

I really like the idea of getting Lan to punch out a few light weight stock size pulleys for us. :D

Dan

[immortal_suby]

I have Motorsport's lightweight stock size pulley on both svx's and have no problems with either one. :)

[Landshark]

if the SVX is the same size as the Legacy and WRX (i think it is, can't remember now :confused: ), Perrin makes a nice stock-size lightweight pulley.

http://www.perrinperformance.com/products/legacy/crank_pulley.htm

[AFBeefcake]

It would be nice if Lan could make a few light weight stock size power steering pump pulleys. :)

[NikFu S.]

Can someone with a really nice ruler go out and measure their Legacy pulley to verify it is the same size inside and out as the SVX? :) ?

I need to get rid of my underdriven pulley for a stock diamter light weight and that Perrin is really pretty.

[19svx94]

a easy way to get the crank pully off is to put a large breaker bar with the socket on the bolt, after taking the belts off, and hold it, have someone crank the motor over really quick, this will break it loose, another way is to stick a prybar through the access hole on the passenger side of the motor in the back to the flexplate, if you take the motor to a spot where you can see a torque converter bolt there is a large hole you can stick a prybar in and you can hold the motor that way, good luck

[Landshark]

Can someone with a really nice ruler go out and measure their Legacy pulley to verify it is the same size inside and out as the SVX? :) ?

I need to get rid of my underdriven pulley for a stock diamter light weight and that Perrin is really pretty.

i can measure my stock Legacy pulley later .......

[intelisevil]

Can someone with a really nice ruler go out and measure their Legacy pulley to verify it is the same size inside and out as the SVX? :) ?

I need to get rid of my underdriven pulley for a stock diamter light weight and that Perrin is really pretty.
Sorry, I'm too lazy to go out and measure my Legacy pulley that is installed in my SVX with stock belts . . . ;)

Dan

[NikFu S.]

Oh well. ;)

[Trevor]

I am not going to get into an argument here. Seat of the pants analysis and after spending money expectations, will always inflame the issue.

However have those who install lightweight crankshaft pulleys, based on the theories of those who sell them, really thought out what is the total reciprocating weight, in respect of a road going engine with driven accessories. The possible reduction in inertia, by reducing the weight of such a small diameter component is so minimal as to be not worth considering. It is not a wonder that the after market trade, offers pulleys in a pretty anodised finish.

The valid argument against this modification, is that Subaru fitted a torsional vibration damper for a reason. Were and are they fools to incur reduced performance at additional cost?

[Landshark]

I am not going to get into an argument here. Seat of the pants analysis and after spending money expectations, will always inflame the issue.

However have those who install lightweight crankshaft pulleys, based on the theories of those who sell them, really thought out what is the total reciprocating weight, in respect of a road going engine with driven accessories. The possible reduction in inertia, by reducing the weight of such a small diameter component is so minimal as to be not worth considering. It is not a wonder that the after market trade, offers pulleys in a pretty anodised finish.

The valid argument against this modification, is that Subaru fitted a torsional vibration damper for a reason. Were and are they fools to incur reduced performance at additional cost?


all i know is, that mine revs up much quicker, which was noticeable especially when using the Sportshift and .... whoa! i came close to bouncing off the rev limiter! many have used them with no reported cases of failure. there have been cases of the stock pulley separating and failing, however. i will probably keep this car for about 5-6 years (will have ~ 50k-60k by then), so i'm not worried. how it affects the long term, 100k+ mileage engine life, i don't know ......or need to worry about. they are cheap enough to not be a big deal of gain vs. price, but i'd say its a good bang for the buck.

[NikFu S.]

Stock pulleys fail just as often as aftermarket, but mine is more for looks than anything.
In any case there is no hard evidence lightweight pulleys are less reliable than harmonic balancers.

You are right, though, considering the tiny weight of a pulley and the huge power of this engine, you won't see any performace gain, but it does compliment a full system of lightened powertrain/drivetrain parts to a degree.

It more or less boils down to a compulsion to make something ones own, a little closer to unique. (:

[Landshark]

Stock pulleys fail just as often as aftermarket, but mine is more for looks than anything.

find me evidence of a stock-sized lightweight pulley EVER failing or causing a problem.

You are right, though, considering the tiny weight of a pulley and the huge power of this engine, you won't see any performace gain, but it does compliment a full system of lightened powertrain/drivetrain parts to a degree.

if they are completely useless, then why did SPT (Subaru Performance Tuning) use GFB lightweight pulleys (underdriven ones, no less) on their Legacy GT project car?

http://homepage.mac.com/futureofx/.Pictures/LSTIHOST/NAIAS2005Bosal/SPTList.jpg

[NikFu S.]

1) My stock sized red pulley failed, caused all kinds of drama.

2) I didn't say they were useless, I said they won't give you a noticable power gain unless used on concert with other parasitic loss reducing components.

(:

Notice however in your pic they are labeled as underdrive (oh, you noticed (; ). They are not convinced light weight alone is enough of a gain.

[Landshark]

1) My stock sized red pulley failed, caused all kinds of drama.

your piece-of-junk-ebay-most-likely-not-even-the-right-size pulley failed.
different situation.

2) I didn't say they were useless, I said they won't give you a noticable power gain unless used on concert with other parasitic loss reducing components.

agreed, however it will rev noticeably quicker.

Notice however in your pic they are labeled as underdrive (oh, you noticed (; ). They are not convinced light weight alone is enough of a gain.

right, but i didn't want to deal with lowered AC compressor or alternator output and have to change to different belts on my daily driver. that is fine for a PROJECT CAR. i was in it for the quicker revving, which is more desirable in a turbocharged vehicle. for a high mileage SVX, its cheaper than a stock pulley replacement, you'll get a little quicker rev, and no explodering pulleys in teh yu0r engine bay.

[NikFu S.]

your piece-of-junk-ebay-most-likely-not-even-the-right-size pulley failed.
different situation.
True I guess, but I do recall someone within the last month or so had a similar problem and posted pictures. It had wobbled slightly and eventually eroded the key slot and this person was unable to remove the key. Factory pulley.

So far that's one for oem and one for aftemarket. ;)

[Trevor]

if they are completely useless, then why did SPT (Subaru Performance Tuning) use GFB lightweight pulleys (underdriven ones, no less) on their Legacy GT project car? [/QUOTE]

Because they wanted a pulley of smaller diameter, so as to reduce the drive ratio to the driven accesories, to reduce power losses in view of increased RPM.

[Landshark]

Because they wanted a pulley of smaller diameter, so as to reduce the drive ratio to the driven accesories, to reduce power losses in view of increased RPM.

i was mainly referring to the fact that there is no rubber dampener/balancer. :)

[Trevor]

i was mainly referring to the fact that there is no rubber dampener/balancer. :)

Fair enough but I wonder what sort of warranty they offer on their copleted offering. The damper was not put there as a joke.

[Landshark]

Fair enough but I wonder what sort of warranty they offer on their copleted offering. The damper was not put there as a joke.

probably none - that was a project car. i've seen e-mail replies from Subaru stating that the stock pulley is not a harmonic balancer. i don't know what actual purpose the rubber serves - reducing NVH? :confused:

from what i've seen, WRX's that use a lightened flywheel AND crank pulley can throw CEL's, but i've yet to see any trouble/failure from a lightened stock sized pulley alone.


BTW....good to see you back, Trevor. :) hope all is well with you.

[Trevor]

probably none - that was a project car. i've seen e-mail replies from Subaru stating that the stock pulley is not a harmonic balancer. i don't know what actual purpose the rubber serves - reducing NVH? :confused:

from what i've seen, WRX's that use a lightened flywheel AND crank pulley can throw CEL's, but i've yet to see any trouble/failure from a lightened stock sized pulley alone.


BTW....good to see you back, Trevor. :) hope all is well with you.

This is a very interesting subject. The auxiliaries are flexible belt driven and this medium must introduce a connection which in itself is an excellent absorbent of erratic torsional forces. I wonder if the engineers involved restricted their thinking to the engine only and disregarded all else.

[Landshark]

This is a very interesting subject. The auxiliaries are flexible belt driven and this medium must introduce a connection which in itself is an excellent absorbent of erratic torsional forces. I wonder if the engineers involved restricted their thinking to the engine only and disregarded all else.

you lost me - i on (potent) beer #6 :D

[Trevor]

you lost me - i on (potent) beer #6 :D

Bloody good one Alan. I am on a potent home brew. Think about flexible belts, not the garter variety, and how they strtc-----h. Belt driven cam shafts have the same advantage in respect of torsional damping. But what the hell, drink your beer!!!!

Cheers, Trevor. *<)

[intelisevil]

This is a very interesting subject. The auxiliaries are flexible belt driven and this medium must introduce a connection which in itself is an excellent absorbent of erratic torsional forces. I wonder if the engineers involved restricted their thinking to the engine only and disregarded all else.
You speak purtier than a two bit w.h.o.r.e . . . ;)

Dan

PS: Sort of quoted from the movie Blazing Saddles.

[immortal_suby]

True I guess, but I do recall someone within the last month or so had a similar problem and posted pictures. It had wobbled slightly and eventually eroded the key slot and this person was unable to remove the key. Factory pulley.

So far that's one for oem and one for aftemarket. ;)

If I remember right you didn't use a torque wrench when you installed yours - the other member's failure probably was the same issue.

FWIW - I use a one piece pulley in the stock size only because I don't want another disintegrating rubber dampener episode. Had nothing to do with performance and I didn't see any kind of seat of the pants gain from it.

[Landshark]

FWIW - I use a one piece pulley in the stock size only because I don't want another disintegrating rubber dampener episode. Had nothing to do with performance and I didn't see any kind of seat of the pants gain from it.

i can't remember if the SVX seemed to rev up quicker with the lightweight pulley or not - what do you think? it is apparent on the LGT, because full boost comes on noticeably quicker.

[NikFu S.]

I drove Khalil's mostly stock SVX and then mine (pre pwr rad) right after. Didn't seem to rev any differently.

[Trevor]

You speak purtier than a two bit w.h.o.r.e . . . ;)

Dan

PS: Sort of quoted from the movie Blazing Saddles.

Dan my services are for free. Does being an amateur make me even purtier ? ? The hot seat stuff is beyond my abilities ! ! !
;) !!!!

[immortal_suby]

i can't remember if the SVX seemed to rev up quicker with the lightweight pulley or not - what do you think? it is apparent on the LGT, because full boost comes on noticeably quicker.

I don't think it did anything on the svx. Seems to rev up just the same. Might be more noticeable on a 4 banger.
Just about out of warranty on the FXT - might try one on that sometime soon.

[It's Just Eric]

Okay...so nobody actually adressed a question, and heck, IM GONNA ANSWER IT! MWAHAHA!!
thats right...I actually KNOW stuff
The crank pully for the svx is exactly the same as it is for the 1992 legacy L wagon. I know this because I did my sisters crank pully on her legacy, and used an svx pully as replacment. they are one in the same.
I can further assume that all subaru crank pullys from a similar year, or possibly even as present, are the same
As far as the aftermarket thing. No. It wont make any notable power gains. But yes, its shiney and it wont seperate.
To remove a crank pully, you need a 21 mm socet, a breaker bar (Or ratchet with a good lenghth pipe for leverage) and a large screwdriver
Jam the screw driver into the torque converter bolt inspecting holey things. This will keep the motor from moving. Next, loosten the big ass bolt on the crank pully. Slide the pully off. Installation is opposite of removal.
Warning- Make sure you take that screw driver out of the tranny...otherwise youll have a mess when you start the car

[Electrophil]

I thought there was a tried and true breaker bar alternative on breaking that little sucker free. :confused: :confused:

(Disclaimer - Never tried it personally.)

[NikFu S.]

I thought there was a tried and true breaker bar alternative on breaking that little sucker free. :confused: :confused:

(Disclaimer - Never tried it personally.)

Slip a breaker around your socket wrench, and whack it with a big hammer. Did this not but a few weeks ago on someone else's car.

[Motorsport-SVX]

I agree, Ive been running my lighter 1 pcs pulley
for over 2 yrs now, no problems and saved $ too.
Also the one pcs gives you the peace of mind it wont
fall apart like the OE one.
Have plenty in stock if you need one, let me know :)

[SilverSpear]

I drove Khalil's mostly stock SVX and then mine (pre pwr rad) right after. Didn't seem to rev any differently.

I dunno what is special about the PWR Rad, but I can't see any problem with the stock SVX rad. Usually over here, when an expensive car rad goes bad, or the car's rad isn't good enough in cooling the car down, people just go to (one of 5-6 industrial complexes over here) a Rad shop, and they ask for a custom COPPER rad because it is easier to Fab than the aluminum one and it cools much bettAr ;) ... plus they make it cheap (For the SVX I think if good quality copper is used will cost near 140-150$)...

Such things do not greatly affect performance :rolleyes:

[NikFu S.]

Peopel over here are really concerned about appearance, and copper is ugly, not to mention expensive and difficult to mangle into the shape you want.

I got the PWR rad because I didn't want another OEM rad that would eventually fail, and has less cooling capacity, and was uglier, and needed a tranny cooler, and :rolleyes: so on.

Interstingly a couple aftermarket rads for our car popped up on Ebay and the net, but I still think I would have got PWR instead. The design, aside from measuring flaws, has a lot going for it and could potentially pay for itself with sheer longevity.

[SilverSpear]

People over here are really concerned about appearance, and copper is ugly, not to mention expensive and difficult to mangle into the shape you want.


Copper is difficult to shape???? WHO TOLD YOU SO?
Aluminum requires special welding tools to do it and when bent it mostly cracks, unlike copper. Furthermore I can always paint the top of a copper rad the color I want ;) , thus enjoying a supercooling feature and an attractive upper look :rolleyes: ;)

[STORMINORMAN]

vs. CRANK PULLEY

There has been some discussion re: this subject. I tend to agree that if there was no perceived need for the function of a harmonic balance the engineers would not have included one...

Not to say a solid one won't "work". Just have to believe that it has a function to further insulate the belt systems from shock.

Cheers!

[dcarrb]

If you decide to go with an OEM replacement from Subaru, check with Subaru Parts Girl, a member for this forum. Her quote was fully $50 cheaper (before shipping) than the quote I got from a north metro Atlanta Suby dealership.

dcb

[Landshark]

Peopel over here are really concerned about appearance, and copper is ugly, not to mention expensive and difficult to mangle into the shape you want.


what do you mean, "people over here are concerned about appearance"?

its a frickin' radiator, not a set of aftermarket wheels. http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/Landshark/32806.gif

[NikFu S.]

Copper is difficult to shape???? WHO TOLD YOU SO?
Aluminum requires special welding tools to do it and when bent it mostly cracks, unlike copper. Furthermore I can always paint the top of a copper rad the color I want ;) , thus enjoying a supercooling feature and an attractive upper look :rolleyes: ;)
I have never seen shaped copper used in automotive application. It's more suited to conducting electricity and water under floors and in walls.

Aluminum requires special tools because it is stronger. ;)

what do you mean, "people over here are concerned about appearance"?

its a frickin' radiator, not a set of aftermarket wheels. http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/Landshark/32806.gif

By poeple I mean people here in the states. Your average truck-driving, beer-drinking, hamburger-eating, mullet-wearing gearhead would rather chrome up every inch of his engine bay than use copper anywhere in it. My steel flex rad hose is copper lined on the inside, but steel for appearance on the outside.

[elninoalex]

I've got a used OEM Legacy pulley for $40 shipped if anyone needs one. alexyjesi@verizon.net

[Iceman59718]

Wow. I hadn't checked the posts in a while, and I must say I'm impressed with all the feedback. However, it's left me a little more confused than when I originally posted. At this point I just want to get my car back on the road. If elninoalex's OEM Legacy pulley will work fine, then that seems like the cheapest alternative. I just want to get her back on the road. I'm actually starting my second job so that I have the money to invest into all the problems with my Suby without cutting into my regular budget ( delivering pizzas is a good reason to drive my car and make some nice tips :) ). I'm just lucky I have a girlfriend that doesn't get jealous when I spend a lot of time with my other girl. Of course I told her I was getting a second job so I could spoil her more. Also, thanks for all the advice on removal techniques. I forgot to mention I have the 5 speed conversion, but I think I recall an open spot between the engine and transmission where i can put something in to lock the flywheel. I was looking under the hood and it appears that my wobbling crank pulley has caused the pulley on my brand new alternator to go kittywampus (technical term for not straight).......ARGHHH!!! It looks crooked and there are metal filings around where the shaft comes out. Hopefully I can return it to the parts store and say it was defective. So I guess in a roundabout way I'm asking if Elninoalex's pulley will work, because if so I'm gonna message him about purchasing it. Thanks again to everyone who posted.

Cheers,

-Dave

[intelisevil]

I bought a pulley from elninoalex and it's currently on my '92 Ebony . . . No problems.

Dan

[Iceman59718]

Thanks Dan. I am actually waiting to here back on an email I sent to elninoalex about purchasing his pulley. I have another car to drive, but the Jetta has issues of it's own. I got stuck pretty bad in the Montana snow this winter and chipped a reverse gear so I'm hoping to fix the Suby so I can park the Jetta. Then hopefully I can fix and sell the Jetta and put all that money back into the new love of my life........ the SVX of course! :D

Regards,

-Dave

[liamrh]

if the SVX is the same size as the Legacy and WRX (i think it is, can't remember now :confused: ), Perrin makes a nice stock-size lightweight pulley.

http://www.perrinperformance.com/products/legacy/crank_pulley.htm

http://www.perrinperformance.com/products/show/181

I hate to thread necro, but I need a new pulley. Is that the one they are referring too?


And holy smokes!! A guy from MT too!!


And I take it a pulley from the 94 on up legacy will work? This looks a lot like ours.

EDIT:
The Unorthodox 221310112 Fits the Following Vehicles Years
Subaru Legacy LS
1990 - 1996
Subaru Legacy L
1990 - 2004
Subaru Legacy
1990
1995
Subaru Legacy LSi
1991 - 1997
Subaru SVX LSL
1992 - 1993
Subaru SVX LS
1992
1994 - 1995
Subaru Impreza
1993 - 1995
Subaru Impreza L
1993 - 2001
Subaru Impreza LS
1993 - 1994
Subaru Legacy Sun Sport
1994
Subaru Legacy Outdoor
1994
Subaru Legacy Alpine Sport
1994
Subaru Legacy GT
1994
1996 - 2005
Subaru Legacy Touring
1994
Subaru SVX LSi
1994 - 1997
Subaru SVX L
1994 - 1997
Subaru Impreza Outback
1995 - 2004
Subaru Impreza LX
1995 - 1996
Subaru Legacy Brighton
1995 - 1998
2000
Subaru Legacy Outback
1995 - 1999
Subaru Legacy Postal
1995 - 1998
Subaru Impreza Brighton
1996 - 1997
Subaru Legacy Outback Limited
1997
1999
Subaru Forester
1998 - 2002
Subaru Forester S
1998 - 2002
Subaru Forester L
1998 - 2002
Subaru Impreza RS
1998 - 2005
Subaru Legacy GT Limited
1998
2000 - 2002
2005
Subaru Legacy Limited 30th Anniversary
1999
Subaru Legacy L 30th Anniversary
1999
Subaru Legacy SUS 30th Anniversary
1999
Subaru Outback Limited
2000 - 2005
Subaru Outback
2000 - 2004
Subaru Outback VDC
2001 - 2003
Subaru Outback L.L. Bean
2001 - 2004
Subaru Impreza WRX
2002 - 2007
Subaru Impreza TS
2002 - 2004
Subaru Outback H6
2002 - 2004
Subaru Baja Sport
2003 - 2006
Subaru Baja
2003
Subaru Forester XS
2003 - 2005
Subaru Forester X
2003 - 2007
Subaru Legacy L SE
2003
Subaru Baja Turbo
2004 - 2006
Subaru Forester XT
2004 - 2005
Subaru Impreza WRX STI
2004 - 2007
Subaru Legacy L 35th Anniversary
2004
Subaru Outback H6 VDC
2004
Subaru Outback H6 35th Anniversary Edition
2004
Subaru Forester XT Premium
2005
Subaru Forester XS L.L. Bean Edition
2005
Subaru Impreza Outback Sport
2005 - 2007
Subaru Legacy i
2005
Subaru Legacy Limited
2005
Subaru Outback i
2005
Subaru Outback XT Limited
2005
2007
Subaru Outback XT
2005 - 2006
Subaru Outback VDC Limited
2005
Subaru Outback R L.L. Bean Edition
2005
Subaru Outback R
2005
Subaru Forester XT Limited
2006 - 2007
Subaru Forester X L.L. Bean Edition
2006 - 2007
Subaru Impreza WRX TR
2006 - 2007
Subaru Impreza 2.5i
2006 - 2007
Subaru Impreza WRX Limited
2006 - 2007
Subaru Legacy 2.5i
2006
Subaru Outback 2.5i
2006 - 2007
Subaru Impreza WRX STI Limited
2007
Subaru Legacy 2.5i Special Edition
2007
Subaru Legacy 2.5i Limited
2007
Subaru Outback 2.5i Limited
2007
Subaru Outback 2.5i Basic
2007

[liamrh]

So can anyone besides me confirm that the pulleys interchange? It sure looks like it from what I have read.


Nobody has to change their pulleys anymore?

[immortal_suby]

So can anyone besides me confirm that the pulleys interchange? It sure looks like it from what I have read.


Nobody has to change their pulleys anymore?

I can confirm that a 2.0L WRX crank pulley is dimensionally identical to the SVX pulley.