Intake Idea

[Myxalplyx]

Laugh if you must! I'm a newbie in this world of SVX but the intake of the SVX has been troubling me. All this talk about maf voltages maxing out, timing being retarded and high rpm power being robbed has got me thinking.

I've noticed that on other Subarus (My two XT6s as well as my RX Turbo [rest its soul]) has power dropping off at 5600rpm or so. This was always the case until the air flow was straightened out or opened up through intake/exhaust modifications. Here's one example of how my SVX, XT6 and RX turbo changes their hp slope at 5600rpm.

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/5600rpmDrops.jpg


I have no scientific data to back this up but I really do not like that intake design. It does not seem to support flow at high rpm. As a matter of fact it seems it may hinder flow by having the air come crashing on the sides of the 'torque box' attached to the dual throttle bodies.

I had a chance to stop by Vertex Industries (Now Verocious Motorsports) which is within 10 minutes of my house [Verocious Motorsports.com]. This is the same place I get all my piping and silicone hoses from. I talked to a guy name Tim there and explained the type of intake I needed. He stated he needed the 'engineer' to be there to measure things out to get things perfect. I believe the engineer's name is 'Tom'. He may be there tomorrow or sometime next week so I'll talk to him then. I definitely want to move forward with this and test it to see how it goes. Something inside me tells me it will make a BIG difference in mid and/or high range. I dunno, pretend I'm an idiot. Here's a rough (pre-school) scetch. Yeah, laugh away!

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/mini-SVXIntakeIdea.JPG



Chike and (Ohh....Supercharger guy....:( Sorry...I can't get the name out) knows about this as I've talked briefly to them about it today. I'm going to go ahead with this to see what it does. I'll be sure welding is in place for the vacuum hoses.

I'm fully aware that this may be an out-dated, already tried idea that sucks. I may have over looked the thread. Thanks for any input though.

Thoughts....Ideas!?!

[huck369]

I'd actually like to see two completely seperate intakes, two maf's, and two filters....

I'm sure that someone with electronics background could figure out the wiring issue, and ECU implications....

[Mike621]

Laugh if you must! I'm a newbie in this world of SVX but the intake of the SVX has been troubling me. All this talk about maf voltages maxing out, timing being retarded and high rpm power being robbed has got me thinking.

I've noticed that on other Subarus (My two XT6s as well as my RX Turbo [rest its sould]) has power dropping off at 5600rpm or so. This was always the case until the air flow was straightened out or opened up through intake/exhaust modifications. Here's one example of the my SVX, XT6 and RX turbo chanes a little at 5600rpm.

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/5600rpmDrops.jpg


I have no scientific data to back this up but I really do not like that intake design. It does not seem to support flow at high rpm. As a matter of fact it seems it may hinder flow by having the air come crashing on the sides of the 'torque box' attached to the dual throttle bodies.

I had a chance to stop by Vertex Industries (Now Verocious Motorsports) which is within 10 minutes of my house [Verocious Motorsports.com]. This is the same place I get all my piping and silicone hoses from. I talked to a guy name Tim there and explained the type of intake I needed. He stated he needed the 'engineer' to be there to measure things out to get things perfect. I believe the engineer's name is 'Tom'. He may be there tomorrow or sometime next week so I'll talk to him then. I definitely want to move forward with this and test it to see how it goes. Something inside me tells me it will make a BIG difference in mid and/or high range. I dunno, pretend I'm an idiot. Here's a rough (pre-school) scetch. Yeah, laugh away!

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/mini-SVXIntakeIdea.JPG



Chike and (Ohh....Supercharger guy..****(SVXFiles..btw)****..:( Sorry...I can't get the name out) knows about this as I've talked briefly to them about it today. I'm going to go ahead with this to see what it does. I'll be sure welding is in place for the vacuum hoses.

I'm fully aware that this may be an out-dated, already tried idea that sucks. I may have over looked the thread. Thanks for any input though.

Thoughts....Ideas!?!

the air filter needs to be in the fender, just fyi. itll do **** in the engine compartment (aka..hot air intake)

[xturboexpress]

My SVX came with a pipe extention that went clear thru the airbox into the fender with a cone filter. Looks stock but open the airbox and its just got a hose from the inner part of the upper intake thru a hole in the bottom of the box.

Just speculation, but I think having the two hoses un-equal length would cause problems... response time, velocity, etc. would be different per bank. like the difference in midrange TQ between a CAI and a short ram.

[Chiketkd]

Chike and (Ohh....Supercharger guy....:( Sorry...I can't get the name out) knows about this as I've talked briefly to them about it today. I'm going to go ahead with this to see what it does. I'll be sure welding is in place for the vacuum hoses.
The S/C guy is Tom (Svxfiles). He definitely enjoyed speaking with you Kevin.

As long as the piping is smooth I'm sure you'll see some gains. I would also second Mike's recommendation. If possible, have the cone filter reside in the fender well.

-Chike

[SilverSpear]

I second Huck's suggestion, and got confused with xturboexpress's comment about the unequal intake piping... What about if Myxalplyx's idea was realized but to get the effect of Huck's suggestion (two pipes and two mafs) we can install 1 larger diameter MAF having a higher velocity a little inferior but near the twin system. I once saw on ebay a 300Z MAF but having an increased diameter than stock :cool: ...

[gest24]

Here's an EG33 with a "dual intake" its nestled in a WRX chasis with a twin turbo set up. But if you look you can see the dual MAF set up. http://www32.homepage.villanova.edu/john.crimmins/h6-tt-wrx%20(1).jpg

[xturboexpress]

Becuase the pipes are hooked right up to the TB's and of different lengths, one is going to suck air in easier. Just like if you had two different lengthed straws. With only one filter you could say that ~60% of the air the filter takes in would go to one side and 40% to the other. Maybe that drastic, maybe not. Just pointing out that it may be a weakpoint.

[SilverSpear]

Becuase the pipes are hooked right up to the TB's and of different lengths, one is going to suck air in easier. Just like if you had two different lengthed straws. With only one filter you could say that ~60% of the air the filter takes in would go to one side and 40% to the other. Maybe that drastic, maybe not. Just pointing out that it may be a weakpoint.

about which setup you are talking about? the one in the pic gest24 suggested? :confused:

[SVXRide]

Here's an EG33 with a "dual intake" its nestled in a WRX chasis with a twin turbo set up. But if you look you can see the dual MAF set up. http://www32.homepage.villanova.edu/john.crimmins/h6-tt-wrx%20(1).jpg


I don't believe that this engine has run - at least to date, that is....
-Bill

[Phast SVX]

Here's an EG33 with a "dual intake" its nestled in a WRX chasis with a twin turbo set up. But if you look you can see the dual MAF set up. http://www32.homepage.villanova.edu/john.crimmins/h6-tt-wrx%20(1).jpg

sorry but definetly no MAF's on that, its an EMS driven system using 3 bar map sensors... it probably hasnt driven becuase they blew all their money on 200 dollar a peice clamps.....
phil

[svxfiles]

Just speculation, but I think having the two hoses un-equal length would cause problems... response time, velocity, etc. would be different per bank.
Our stock airbox at the throttle is allready un-equal length.
The air has to travel farther to get to the drivers side throttle body.

I have allways liked the idea of a twin air filter, twin runner intake for the SVX, as discribed by Terry McLane, years ago, and now that we know our MAFs max out at 250 hp, or so, this mod might pay off on cammed, or big block 3.3+ engines.

With 1/2 as much air travelling through our stock MAF, it would not be any where near maxed out, so could we just use some form of voltage transformer to double the reading so that the ECU uses the stock, or modified timing maps?

Perhaps a LAN chip, one stock MAF, and a twin intake, twin filter raises the NA, or SC, or NOX engine limits, for the intake components to 500 hp now?!

Now, if some smart guy, Harvey, LAN, Mychailo, Mark(5), can tell us which MAF to use, and how to wire it, all we have to do then is plumb it!

[huck369]

Hmmm 2 intakes, 2 air filters, 1 maf (the stock one) wired to double the signal....sounds very do-able to me......anyone know what it would take to double the MAF signal?

[AFBeefcake]

Maybe a 741 OP amp or some other type of amplifier. But a 741 mite not be the best choice.

[xturboexpress]

Our stock airbox at the throttle is allready un-equal length.
The air has to travel farther to get to the drivers side throttle body.

With the stock intake, there is a area before the TB's that equalizes the volume between the two, I thought? There is one box with two holes in it for the TB's and one for the intake piping back to the airbox. The sketch above shows two pipes going directly into each TB, which is why I pointed out the length issue.

Again, it might not matter at all, but as he stated hes looking for maximum performance, just a thought.

If after the TB the air paths cross again, like inside the manifold, everything I've said makes no difference, just thought about that. I am saying all this on the basis that after the air passes the TB it does not intersect again with air passing thru the other TB, which is how I thought it was. School me =)

[Chiketkd]

If after the TB the air paths cross again, like inside the manifold
That only happens when the IRIS valve is open. When it is shut, there's no cross flow of intake air from one side to another.

-Chike ;)

[NikFu S.]

*post deleted due to erroneus content*

Thanks SVXfiles for clearing it up.

[mbtoloczko]

I thought you guys knew the right hand butterfly was for cruise control and doesn't open under normal driving?...


I'm pretty sure that the butterflies open and close as a pair.

[mbtoloczko]

Rather than setting up a dual runner, have you cosidered a revised single runner layout? I think there is enough room between the tranny and the tranny tunnel to run a single pipe straight into the throttle body plenum from below. It would come up at about 30 deg angle from horizontal into a plenum or y-pipe. Its basically the same layout that you are showing but with a single pipe that can split into a "y" just before the throttle bodies.

[svxfiles]

Rather than setting up a dual runner, have you cosidered a revised single runner layout? I think there is enough room between the tranny and the tranny tunnel to run a single pipe straight into the throttle body plenum from below. It would come up at about 30 deg angle from horizontal into a plenum or y-pipe. Its basically the same layout that you are showing but with a single pipe that can split into a "y" just before the throttle bodies.
I was thinking this might be the ULTIMATE throttle bypass mod, especially for the OBD2 cars, for which there is no chip.;)

[svxfiles]

Rather than setting up a dual runner, have you cosidered a revised single runner layout? I think there is enough room between the tranny and the tranny tunnel to run a single pipe straight into the throttle body plenum from below. It would come up at about 30 deg angle from horizontal into a plenum or y-pipe. Its basically the same layout that you are showing but with a single pipe that can split into a "y" just before the throttle bodies.
I was thinking this might be the ULTIMATE throttle bypass mod;) , especially for the OBD2 cars, for which there is no chip.:)

[NikFu S.]

I'm pretty sure that the butterflies open and close as a pair.
Yeah forget what I said. Apparently I have been mislead to a great degree and only one of my valves opens as was stated long ago.

Makes you wonder what my car is capable of if everything is working....

[svxfiles]

With 1/2 as much air travelling through our stock MAF, it would not be any where near maxed out, so could we just use some form of voltage transformer to double the reading so that the ECU uses the stock, or modified timing maps?
Now, if some smart guy, Harvey, LAN, Mychailo, Mark(5), can tell us which MAF to use, and how to wire it, all we have to do then is plumb it!
Ok, how about this, we use TWO stock MAFs, and each one reads 1/2 the airflow.
So if a each side reads, say 3 volts, how can we combine them to read 6 volts.
Would it have the correct timing maps?

[Myxalplyx]

Ok, how about this, we use TWO stock MAFs, and each one reads 1/2 the airflow.
So if a each side reads, say 3 volts, how can we combine them to read 6 volts.
Would it have the correct timing maps?

Would you want them to read six or three volts? Yes, they will only be reading half as much air than is actually going in, however timing can/should be left to the ECU while fuel control be left to the driver. This way, timing will be more advanced than usual due to the lowered voltage and you'd get the fuel you'd need by manual control (Ex: SAFC). Sounds interesting!

BTW: Has anyone installed an Apexi ITC on these cars to control timing?

In the meantime, I'm going to the route in the diagram pic I posted. I just finished taking some more measurements and it is going to be a TIGHT fit. Only 5.5 - 5.75" available from the throttle body to the firewall. Two 2.5" or 2.75" diametered intake piping could fit but they will have to be VERY snug. The passenger side throttle body piping will have to make a very sharp turn but the outside of this piping can be made smooth. It is just talk now though until some pics are posted. I'm thinking about what I can get at Home Depot to scrounge up to make a draft of the actual piping that needs to be made. I'll present this to the shop I mentioned earlier or some other guys I have in mind to see what can be made up.

It would be cool if anyone else would try the dual mafs and such. I'm not ready to splice into any wiring....Yet! Many of you are much more advanced in this area and determining how voltages will go together to get an end result.

[Budfreak]

subscribe;)

[svxfiles]

Would you want them to read six or three volts? Yes, they will only be reading half as much air than is actually going in, however timing can/should be left to the ECU while fuel control be left to the driver.
I would want them to read the "6" volts,(as an example)or the combined voltages, just like those given by the "normal" voltage, that would be given by ONE MAF, but without the maxing out, and with less air restriction!
(because it has twice the filter area, and twice the volume in the air intake tubes.:)

[Phast SVX]

I would want them to read the "6" volts,(as an example)or the combined voltages, just like those given by the "normal" voltage, that would be given by ONE MAF, but without the maxing out, and with less air restriction!
(because it has twice the filter area, and twice the volume in the air intake tubes.:)

If the voltage map were linear then that would work. The voltage operations becomes steeper as air levels increases, therefore you would not be able to do this mod without the help of lan!
phil

[Myxalplyx]

I just found one part of the puzzle that I'd need to make this work. SVXtasy has that turbocharged SVX with a 'Y' pipe on it. I sent him an email to see if he could sell me a similar part. If not, I can use the picture to have one made up.
http://www.svxtasy.com/Image(02).jpg

This piece would probably work great. The part of the 'Y' that is a single pipe diameter would be where the maf sensor would connect to. Then the 'Y' would bend and the dual pipes that connect to the throttle body could be attached to this. This 'Y' part is what I'd get a shop to put the three welds in for the vacuum hoses. Three of the vacuum hoses (Two crankcase and one coming off the transmission count as one) could be tide into welds on the 'Y' pipe.

At any rate, yeah, I think this could work. This part needs to be made. I'm sure some exhaust shop nearby can make something like this if SVXtasy isn't selling any of these pieces.

SVXtasy , if you are reading this, this is what we have been talking about via PM.
http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/IntakePic-Ver2.jpg

[Myxalplyx]

Had some aluminum ducting in my garage so I cut it up to the shape I was drawing on the diagram. The aluminum will do for testing purposes to see how much power can be made. I'd rather smoother piping, silicone hoses with bends or a combo for the 2nd phase of testing since the aluminum ridges can cause turbulence but it will do for now. All I need is the 'Y' pipe connection and drill some holes in it for all the vacuum hoses to go to.
http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/DualAluminum.JPG


In the meantime (against popular demand), I found an adapter in my garage to the Maf sensor so I went to Autozone to pick up a large air filter. Yep, ghetto (Sorry Chike) but I want to see the airflow difference between this and the stock setup with the panel filter. I understand that airflow may be more at the cost of worst filtering. I also understand that even if filtering is the same or better that more hot air is not necessarily better than less cool air from outside the engine bay. I've been searching and searching but could not find evidence that it is necessarily worse, even though it makes sense that is 'should' be.

So I put the air filter on the Maf adapter I found and got this intake together. Air filter was $25.00 at Autozone (I saved the box and just misplaced it but I don't think anyone would want the part #). Fit is REALLY tight but functional. Drove around a little bit and it sounds really nice.

I need to stop by the dealership and pick up my items out of my RX turbo since it is R.I.P. If I'm not all dressy tonight, I'll do some G-Tech runs and test the difference between the two tonight. It is not the actual 1/4 mile time and mph that counts. It is the difference between the two that matters (if there is a difference). It will show if the hot air intake is bad and if so, how bad.

The surface area of the cone filter is larger than the STi panel air filter (not that that means anything right?). I had set the cone style air filter on top of one end of the STi air filter and rolled it to the other side. I started this with the Maf sensor being upright. By the time the roll was completely on the other side of the STi panel filter, the Maf sensor was almost to the bottom of the cone air filter. If the surface area was the same, I'd think it would have completed a whole roll before getting to the other side. Also, the cheapo filter has a hole on top of it (this is the only kind I'd use) allowing for even more airflow.

Remember, this is for more horsepower/torque no matter where in the power band. Of course the Maf is maxed out but it doesn't mean power can't be pushed to the max throughout the other parts of the power band. Ok, I'll shut up. I need to drive for a bit.

If my stupid Pocketlogger is working ok (Chike, I talked to you about this), I can get some air measurements and state the difference in lbs per hour between the stock intake with the STi panel filter and the El Cheapo Autozone filter. Sorry if this type of intake seems insulting Chike. I got to test these things out though.

Overall, I'm still waiting to get my hands on a 'Y' pipe to complete this intake for testing at the dyno. If anyone knows anywhere on the net where someone can get this type of fitting, please post or send me a PM. I don't care if it is made out of steel, aluminum, silicone, hard rubber, etc, as long as it can be modified to fit the vacuum hoses to, to make it run. Ok, I'm done! My current setup is below:

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/HotAirIntake1.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/HotAirIntake2.JPG

Hey, doesn't someone make an intake like this already? Also, what is the curb weight of your car Chike? I need to be able to put this in the G-Tech.

[svxistentialist]

Our stock airbox at the throttle is allready un-equal length.
The air has to travel farther to get to the drivers side throttle body.

I have allways liked the idea of a twin air filter, twin runner intake for the SVX, as discribed by Terry McLane, years ago, and now that we know our MAFs max out at 250 hp, or so, this mod might pay off on cammed, or big block 3.3+ engines.

With 1/2 as much air travelling through our stock MAF, it would not be any where near maxed out, so could we just use some form of voltage transformer to double the reading so that the ECU uses the stock, or modified timing maps?

Perhaps a LAN chip, one stock MAF, and a twin intake, twin filter raises the NA, or SC, or NOX engine limits, for the intake components to 500 hp now?!

Now, if some smart guy, Harvey, LAN, Mychailo, Mark(5), can tell us which MAF to use, and how to wire it, all we have to do then is plumb it!


I'm assuming the custom intake and plenum chamber in gest's pic is feeding two turbos?

If you want to go with Terry McLaine idea, surely one MAF is enough, without complicating the voltage and getting two devices to feed a signal to the ECU?

It looks to be totally symmetrical, so there is no reason to assume that one half is getting more air than the other half, they should be equal.

Once the two feeder tubes are equal in length, diameter and are as smooth as each other, then reading the air flow through one of the pipes will be linearly proportional to the air the both turbos together are sucking in. And this signal will be the voltage the ECU recognises and expects if the stock MAF is used.

Taking this a step further, provided the stock maf is only "seeing" 220 hp or 230 hp as per the NA setup, then it should be possible to use the turbos to generate 440 to 460 hp without going past the max of the stock MAF, because we are now taking in twice the air volume.

Am I seeing this in an oversimplified way, or are my deductions correct?

Joe

[oab_au]

There is no problem getting air into the engine. The flow through that pipe and box, is at a low velocity. It is not like the high velocity in the inlet tract. The way the inlet works on full throttle, is the IRIS valve has opened to join the two haves of the inlets together.

This makes a large chamber that includes, all the inlet tracts, both throttle bodys, the box in front of them and the air delivery pipe. This whole chamber is very close to atmospheric pressure, so it is as if the 6 inlet tracts to the cylinders are breathing from the atmosphere and the rest of the inlet does not count. The chamber acts like a big sponge, that each cylinder pulls its air out of. So the shape, the bends, the wrinkles, don't count.

Harvey.;)

[NikFu S.]

both throttle bodys,
Harvey.;)
Is there a time both throttle bodies do not open?

[oab_au]

Is there a time both throttle bodies do not open?

Only when you get out of the car Nik.:D

Harvey.:)

[Chiketkd]

Also, what is the curb weight of your car Chike? I need to be able to put this in the G-Tech.
Kevin,

Weight is around 3,450lbs with a 1/3 tank of gas and the weight reduction I've done (lightweight wheels, exhaust system, etc). If you take out the spare tire and tools, use a weight of 3,405lbs.

The intake looks just fine Kevin. I realize you're testing different set-ups to learn what's best for making the most power - so I'm not insulted at all, actually quite pleased! :)

-Chike

[dmnknightomega6]

SOme thoughts:

Since we have 2 different lenghts of piping on the "Y",consider the following facts:
a) Different air volume at all times
b) Different pressure at all times
c) Volumetric pressure for MAF sensor calculation of ideal combustion rate is assumed to be constant on all cylinders in a full cycle of the crank.
d) Super or turbochargers can achieve letter c due to it pumping air pressure in the airsupply by pressurizing it.
e) as mentioned in the thread, NA problems only occur at high end, what we want is to get a constant curve on the graph: hence increasing volume compression of air at higher speeds.

I Like the idea of a Y pipe at the entry itself, and what if we simply increase the dianeter of the pipe going there instead of having two? that way we maintain minimal volumetric pressure discrepancies.

A Wide oval pipe with a better MAF sensor to a semi industion-box type filter unit And Added to it a small diameter auxilary intake?

Just my thoughts on driving home......

BTW... Where did you guys get the cone fiter adapter?

[Myxalplyx]

BTW... Where did you guys get the cone fiter adapter?

I can not remember. I found mine in the garage. Some help right? Perhaps this is adapter is the same adapter as the one for the Impreza since this adapter is what I believe I used on that car. It does not look like the adapter I have used to test intakes on the XT6.

[Jade Dragon]

i have also bee thinking of what would need to be done to run 2 MAFs, it the only thing that would make it work correctly, would be an active electronic device, that would be continualy averaging the voltage between the two, then sendig that data to the ECU. I like the idea that they did in that 33WRX, which is how im planing on doing it. but only running a single maf.

[Myxalplyx]

Just wanted to give a little update. I went to Verocious Motorsports (http://stores.channeladvisor.com/verociousmotorsports/) (previously Vertex Industries) this past Tuesday (1-31-06) to talk about a custom intake for the SVX. I told them that I had two primary objectives for the intake. 1)To get rid of the 'accordian' flex of the stock hose that is between the maf sensor and the throttle bodies and, 2)To get rid of the stock air chamber before the throttle bodies for smooth piping going to both of them. Also, I want to get rid of the stock air filter assembly for a big cone filter that has an opening on the end of it. This cone filter will at first be placed in the engine bay for testing with the hood up, then a setup to put it in the fenderwell for cooler air later.

A guy there name Alex (who is one of the main guys there) and Tom went about taking all the measurments they need to get this started and we decided we would discuss this later. I opened up the piping possibilities to include aluminum, silicone or a combination of the two. Stainless steel is expensive.

We talked about duel piping coming off both throttle bodies as well as having a 'y' type connection (Like your header would be coming off the exhaust ports) to connect to one pipe and going from there. The biggest problem with dual piping is the space in between the throttle bodies and the firewall (like 5.75", maybe 6" if you remove the device that is on the firewall). It can be done but it would be a tight fit.

So I just left it at that and let them do their thing. I may call them tomorrow to see where things stand. It will be very interesting (I had to put this out as a just in case) if somehow this helps the top end level off instead of dropping like it does now. Of course it won't but it can't hurt just to see right. :D

Anyways, this is where things are for now.

[NFSvxSpeed]

http://i1.tinypic.com/n4cnbb.jpg

[NikFu S.]

Having the maf in between the throttle bodies like that would be ineffective. It needs to measure the air coming in, before it gets sucked into the manifold.

[Myxalplyx]

Having the maf in between the throttle bodies like that would be ineffective. It needs to measure the air coming in, before it gets sucked into the manifold.

NikFuS, that is what it is doing. :D Unless I'm looking at that picture wrong.

[NikFu S.]

NikFuS, that is what it is doing. :D Unless I'm looking at that picture wrong.
Didja see the last one there? That last picture? :confused:

[Myxalplyx]

Didja see the last one there? That last picture? :confused:

Yeah, it looks like two intake tubes going into the maf sensor. Then it looks like piping is being split into two pipes and going into the throttle body. I don't know it could be done or the benefits of it so........ I mean, there is less than 6" of space in front of those throttle bodies. The maf sensor attached to the throttle body would leave next to no space left for any piping.

[NikFu S.]

Gimme a couple minutes to draw somethin up.
--
Here we go.

linkthingy (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/|Z|Ryuken/intakeidea2.gif)

[SilverSpear]

Nik you are right on this one, I can see the only way to setup such a thing is to go with 2 impreza tubes using one stock SVX MAF on each side and dividing the voltage between the two. We should ask LAN about this one, maybe a 2V6 in release??? :rolleyes: ;)

[Myxalplyx]

Stopped by the shop today to get an update on the progress of the intake. Main guy was not there so I talked to another guy to get some feedback. He called the main guy on the phone (who was on the road) and got back with me.

He indicated that it 'seems' that having two tubes coming from the throttle body is 'almost' an impossibility due to the amount of room needed for both intake tubes to occupy. This was based on the measurements that were taken. He told me that the main guy was working on a modified version of the dual throttled opening box of sorts that would be similar to the stock intake. I told him that would not be acceptable. I want dual intake tubes coming from each throttle body that would join further down the intake path towards the air flow sensor. If they can not come up with a solution, I will scrounge up something myself to testing. They have the flexibility to use stainless steel, silicone tubing with bends and/or aluminum if they must. Even plastic bends is acceptable. I just want two tubes merging to one. The tubes can be no less than 1.5" each.

I looked around their shop and have a couple of ideas if they do not move on this. They are pretty busy and have other priorities but I don't want to wait months for something that can come together in a matter of a couple of weeks. I'll give it to Monday before making any moves myself. With the piping/silicone hoses and such they have, it can be done. So this is where I am at for now. :)

[Myxalplyx]

http://www.svxtasy.com/Image(02).jpg

Does anyone know who I can talk to about making this piece up for me? The shop I stopped at is still scratching their heads. Thanks!

[SVXRide]

Kevin,
Find a local shop that does roll cage fabrication. What you've got in the picture is fairly basic roll cage fabrication work....
If you can't find a "cage" fabricator, try finding a shop that does custom headers....
-Bill

[Myxalplyx]

Kevin,
Find a local shop that does roll cage fabrication. What you've got in the picture is fairly basic roll cage fabrication work....
If you can't find a "cage" fabricator, try finding a shop that does custom headers....
-Bill

Bill,

I know of such a shop. Actually, Xotic Motorsports (Where I get my dyno runs done at) has a older gentleman there by the name of 'Art' who has partial ownership of the shop. He does the welding work there. I'll hit him up to see what he says. Thanks!

[Phast SVX]

im not exactly sure why people are thinking that the intake plenum is restrictive. I do know that having 2 pipes that are not designed correctly could cause a bias. This is of no concern to sam as its obviously pressurized. I dont see you doing anything but loosing horsepower with an engine that pulls a VE of 98% stock.
phil

[Myxalplyx]

;) im not exactly sure why people are thinking that the intake plenum is restrictive. I do know that having 2 pipes that are not designed correctly could cause a bias. This is of no concern to sam as its obviously pressurized. I dont see you doing anything but loosing horsepower with an engine that pulls a VE of 98% stock.
phil

Phil,
You have a valid point. Are you willing to put $$$ on my losing power with any intake design that I make up? My Paypal is thomasck@comcast.net. I am sure you are right but I am a curious person and have to test these things out. $5.00 bet! Lets keep it simple. ;)

[Phast SVX]

;)

Phil,
You have a valid point. Are you willing to put $$$ on my losing power with any intake design that I make up? My Paypal is thomasck@comcast.net. I am sure you are right but I am a curious person and have to test these things out. $5.00 bet! Lets keep it simple. ;)

sure. Double or nthing says my intake design makes more power than yours does.
http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6690&d=1136698266

[TomsSVX]

After reading this thread I have one thing to say.

Your stock intake is not restrictive. Everyone can throw around ideas that may seem usfull but the engineers did it right the 1st time around. The MAF is set in the position it should stay in and everything behind it should not change.

Also, Phil. My money is on you. What size SS tubing did u use?

Tom

[Landshark]

After reading this thread I have one thing to say.

Your stock intake is not restrictive. Everyone can throw around ideas that may seem usfull but the engineers did it right the 1st time around. The MAF is set in the position it should stay in and everything behind it should not change.


+1

unless you are throwing a turbo or supercharger in there, there isn't much to be gained (possibly even a loss with some crazy design).


keep a clean filter in the stock box, and divert the brainstorming elsewhere....

[Phast SVX]

After reading this thread I have one thing to say.

Your stock intake is not restrictive. Everyone can throw around ideas that may seem usfull but the engineers did it right the 1st time around. The MAF is set in the position it should stay in and everything behind it should not change.

Also, Phil. My money is on you. What size SS tubing did u use?

Tom

thats my thinking as well. Its 2 1/2, to 3 inch. Then 2 inch velocity stacks if i remmeber correctly.

phil

[Chiketkd]

FYI folks, as most of you would know, the SVX has the same sized airbox as the STI and WRX. I asked a few tuners over on nasioc and clubwrx about the power level you would need to reach before the stock airbox becomes a restriction - I was told 300+whp! :eek:

[Phast SVX]

sounds right to me....

Shifting from the usual "more is better" state of mind to what intake will allow us to flow and keep and resonance through out the band is required when working with our engine. It is extremely efficent, and meticulously worked through. I don't need a dyno plot to tell me you arent going to improve on a 98% VE engine without loosing power someewhere else by modifying the intake.

phil

[Myxalplyx]

sounds right to me....

Shifting from the usual "more is better" state of mind to what intake will allow us to flow and keep and resonance through out the band is required when working with our engine. It is extremely efficent, and meticulously worked through. I don't need a dyno plot to tell me you arent going to improve on a 98% VE engine without loosing power someewhere else by modifying the intake.

phil

Thanks for the input guys. I need to put my energy into other areas. Your opinions are valued and appreciated. :)

[SilverSpear]

Thanks for the input guys. I need to put my energy into other areas. Your opinions are valued and appreciated. :)

The most thing you can do with the intake right now is to cover it entirely with a thick heat resistant material and a green/cone filter outside the engine bay (in the fender), unless someone comes up with the dual maf/intake setup

[Amazonparrot]

Keep up the good work Kevin, someone has to do the pioneering work "restriction" or not. Someone has to change and experiment on their own car, no matter how much others say its not neccesary, in the 3 years I have been a member here, people went from being negative about the 5-spd, and saying the 4.11/4.44 swap was impractical or impossible to them being well used and commonplace, and not to mention the great work that LAN has done with the ECU and MAF. I needn't even mention what people previously thought was possible with superchargers/turbo setups...so just keep going!! 'Sides you can always return it to stock if you have to!!

-Andrew

[Myxalplyx]

Keep up the good work Kevin, someone has to do the pioneering work "restriction" or not. Someone has to change and experiment on their own car, no matter how much others say its not neccesary, in the 3 years I have been a member here, people went from being negative about the 5-spd, and saying the 4.11/4.44 swap was impractical or impossible to them being well used and commonplace, and not to mention the great work that LAN has done with the ECU and MAF. I needn't even mention what people previously thought was possible with superchargers/turbo setups...so just keep going!! 'Sides you can always return it to stock if you have to!!

-Andrew

Thanks Andrew! What drives me is the criticism. I have no plans on stopping. I will continue to experiment and post my findings. I do value everyone's input though but nothing means anything without data. Many people are used to others just speaking about mods and such without the person actually testing things out. I'm pretty excited about it and I am a pessimist. In all though, my curiousity takes a hold of me and I run with it. So yeah, I did not plan on posting the progress unless I get positive or negative results. I know negative results are expected but no matter, I'll still post it/them and get the 'I told you so's'.

I just got finished playing in the garage for the first part. I'm waiting for another part to arrive and will pick up another couple of parts from there. It doesn't mean anything until it comes together and is tested though. So get ready for the -15 to -20hp and torque losses. It'll make for some good comedy relief. :D Something deep down inside me adds pluses instead of minuses though.

[TomsSVX]

Ther critizism is not for nothing. Saying there is no gain from it is legitimate.

The 5mt conversion reduces drivetrain loss which is a proven gain in almost any car. Period.

The 4.11/4.44 conversion increases torque to wheels. Same as any other vehicle that you change gear ratios in. Also plain and simple.

This intake will only reduce the 98% VE which is not something anyone wants. I am serious in saying it will be time and money wasted. I am going to unsubscribe from this one now, seems like others are not making sense of this

Tom

[Myxalplyx]

Anyways, just in case a newbie or oldie that may have missed some threads on related subjects, here are a couple of threads that make good reading. Do not waste time reading this thread if it does not make any sense.

SVX inlet system design. Pt.2. Resonance. (http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29170&highlight=98%25)

Subura Engineers are not GODS.... there IS room for improvement... (http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9280&highlight=98%25)

[Amazonparrot]

Hey, i meant to ask you, where did you get the maf adaptor for you current setup (i.e. the piece i had to make for mine, that attaches the filter directly to the maf tube) Thanks!

[Myxalplyx]

Hey, i meant to ask you, where did you get the maf adaptor for you current setup (i.e. the piece i had to make for mine, that attaches the filter directly to the maf tube) Thanks!

Honestly, I can not remember. I have 2-3 of them in my garage from playing around with various intakes over the years. So I can not say this maf adapter came from a certain intake. Most intakes and stuff I buy are used so the maf adapter(s) I may have gotten used off of NASIOC. I think at least one of them I got off of Ebay. That's where I'd start looking.

[TomsSVX]

I have an aluminum one I pulled off my sister's altima. Same thing because the MAF bolt patterns are the same. ANyway, if anyone wants it, its urs

Tom

[Mimmsey]

I have an aluminum one I pulled off my sister's altima. Same thing because the MAF bolt patterns are the same. ANyway, if anyone wants it, its urs

Tom


Tom...i love you...

in the least gay way possible;) :D

PM you for more info?

[Mimmsey]

Oh weird, I forgot i was on mikes computer...

[Amazonparrot]

Oh weird, I forgot i was on mikes computer...


There we go..back on mine...in any case...Tom, I'll PM you..

[Myxalplyx]

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/mini-SVX-Silicone1.JPG

What a pain in the arse this connection is. The throttle body housings are so close together. You need thin rubber or silicone to squeeze two intake tubes on it. Have to do something about this in the future. Now, I'm waiting for the 'Y' pipe to arrivein the mail. The single pipe portion of the 'Y' is where I will drill hoses for the vacuum tubing. After I receive the 'Y' pipe, I can figure out the length of the straight tubing I'll need to connect the silicone bend to the 'Y' pipe with. Then the tubing and hoses will get all clamped down.

Just my little update since I've nothing else to do. :D

[Myxalplyx]

I have an aluminum one I pulled off my sister's altima. Same thing because the MAF bolt patterns are the same. ANyway, if anyone wants it, its urs

Tom

Oh yeah Tom, thanks for posting this. Didn't realize the Altima maf adapters fit SVXs. I'm learning more and more everyday about different items that can be cross-used betwen Nissans and Subarus, even the older schooled subies.

[AvPPoW]

Very interested to see how it goes. It's nice that somebody is finally taking the time to dyno and get real life performance figures. Keep up the good work, and even if it doesn't improve performance, at least someone will have proved it the correct way instead of just assuming.

[Budfreak]

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/mini-SVX-Silicone1.JPG

What a pain in the arse this connection is. The throttle body housings are so close together. You need thin rubber or silicone to squeeze two intake tubes on it. Have to do something about this in the future. Now, I'm waiting for the 'Y' pipe to arrivein the mail. The single pipe portion of the 'Y' is where I will drill hoses for the vacuum tubing. After I receive the 'Y' pipe, I can figure out the length of the straight tubing I'll need to connect the silicone bend to the 'Y' pipe with. Then the tubing and hoses will get all clamped down.

Just my little update since I've nothing else to do. :D

What if you cut the cuffs off of a stock airbox and slid your intake ducts in one end and clamped them then slide the cuffs onto the throttle bodies and clamped them?? Have you thought about the 90's ford trucks for a 2-1 intake fitting? Look at the bottom right hand corner of this page:http://www.summitracing.com/catalogs/bigbook/2006/janfeb/358f.html

Just thought I'd throw some ideas out there.;) Let me know what you think.

[Myxalplyx]

What if you cut the cuffs off of a stock airbox and slid your intake ducts in one end and clamped them then slide the cuffs onto the throttle bodies and clamped them??

That's a thought! If what I am doing fails, I may have to just take that route. I'd get a junker intake to do the cutting on though.

I KNEW my 'Y' piece would get in today. It still is not here. :mad: All of my other car stuff has since came in 'cept for this piece. Gotta check into this to see what the heck is going on.

Edit: Just found this in my inbox--->"No, it has not shipped. This item is currently on backorder w/magnaflow. I don't have a solid ETA, and I'm sorry, I thought I had email'd all my customers to offer a refund if they were unable to wait. I apologize for the confusion and the inconvenience. Please let me know how you wish to proceed.

Thanks,


Dan
Customer Service Dept.
1-800-470-1443
http://performancepeddler.com"


I hate delays! :mad: :mad: Now to think of option two.

[SVXRide]

Kevin,
Think "ram air"...do a search on it....Mychailo and I have shown that it will provide 5-10 more Hp above ~40mph.
-Bill

[Myxalplyx]

Update: Stopped by Verocious Motorsports (http://stores.channeladvisor.com/verociousmotorsports/) today since I took off work early. The main person was not there again. They will be giving me a call on the two designs I proposed to them previously. One design is similar to SVXfiles intake where the two throttle bodies immediately join into one pipe to make a 'normal' intake. This is mainly to get rid of the 'bumpiness/accordian' of the stock intake and make the air transition to the throttle bodies smoother. The 2nd design is duap piping coming from each throttle body to a 'Y' pipe that joins to a single pipe just before the maf sensor. Purpose:?: Just to see what it does in the name of science.

So, I'm still waiting for prices and such. Holes will STILL need to be drilled into the intake(s) for vacuum hoses and such. Fitting probably won't be perfect. Who knows. So I twiddle for yet another week. Can't make my own intake since the only decent 'Y' pipe I found on the net is on backorder. I cancelled that order. :mad:

[VTsuby]

I'm working with a map system so the dual piping is going to be easier for me. If you can pull it off the dual pipes is the way to go. Once we get my motor on the dyno I'm going to try two lengths about three feet each and go up from there. http://upetd.up.ac.za/thesis/available/etd-01242006-123639/unrestricted/00dissertation.pdf this is a good thesis on resonace tuning and it discusses the differences in tuning the intake between four and six cylinders. A main point of his is that for a four focus should be made on the ram effect of the runner while on a six with its seperate banks secondary helmholtz resonance plays a much bigger role. I think you are correct in trying to make the two pipe setup work since this would be increasing the "spring" or maybe at this point it could be considered a mass, I don't know. Some pros have told me that this is definetely the way to go and worth the effort. A phenolic spacer on the throttle body would also increase the volume of the plenums and help the air get around the corner to the front cylinders more efficiently.

[SVXRide]

I'm working with a map system so the dual piping is going to be easier for me. If you can pull it off the dual pipes is the way to go. Once we get my motor on the dyno I'm going to try two lengths about three feet each and go up from there. http://upetd.up.ac.za/thesis/available/etd-01242006-123639/unrestricted/00dissertation.pdf this is a good thesis on resonace tuning and it discusses the differences in tuning the intake between four and six cylinders. A main point of his is that for a four focus should be made on the ram effect of the runner while on a six with its seperate banks secondary helmholtz resonance plays a much bigger role. I think you are correct in trying to make the two pipe setup work since this would be increasing the "spring" or maybe at this point it could be considered a mass, I don't know. Some pros have told me that this is definetely the way to go and worth the effort. A phenolic spacer on the throttle body would also increase the volume of the plenums and help the air get around the corner to the front cylinders more efficiently.

VT,
Couple of things:
1. Might want to warn folks that have dial up accounts that the thesis is 6.2M in size...
2. The "spring" is also going to be a function of the exhaust cam timing
3. Looking forward to your dyno time...a couple of us have been working with the physics of the exhaust for a while and, to a limited extent, trying things out on our cars to see if theory proves out. Could you add a step in your work that addresses the length/dia of primary pipes and when they tie together to a single chamber (be it a Cat or a muffler - might want to address the potential "optimal" volume), as many of us don't want to run dual pipes all the way back.
Thanks!
-Bill

[VTsuby]

No not dual exhuast. I'm referring to the intake idea of spliting the induction into to seperate pipes that are isolated from each other to amplify secondary helmholtz resonance.

[VTsuby]

You know you could make your y pipe out of fiberglass fairly easily. Glue some blueboard together use a hole saw to make the flanges carve the rest. Glass it, sand, and paint. Use some silicon hose to join it all together, it would look pretty slick.

[Phast SVX]

i may just make you one next time im out at the shop. Im kind of out of projects(and money ) for now!
phil

[TomsSVX]

If you guys are seriously interested in doing this, may I make one suggestion. Take the stock length of the snorkus into consideration and be sure to make each bank equal length. Without this airflow to either bank can vary and that is not something you want to deal with

Tom

[Myxalplyx]

You know you could make your y pipe out of fiberglass fairly easily. Glue some blueboard together use a hole saw to make the flanges carve the rest. Glass it, sand, and paint. Use some silicon hose to join it all together, it would look pretty slick.

Do you know some examples of this that you may have seen over the internet?

And thank you for the PDF file on resonance tuning. I have not read it yet but will be saving it after posting this and will probably be reading this tonight.

[VTsuby]

no, but glass would give you alot more freedom of design. I sure theres some bling bling subwoofer forum that could tell you all about fiber glass or even carbon fiber if you want to get fancy. I've just seen our FSAE team doing carbon work they get alittle more complicated with female molds and vacum bags but you aint building and F1 car

[Myxalplyx]

Mild update! Called Verocious Motorsports. They stated they have just about all the piping but was waiting to hear back from the welding guy. Said they haven't heard from him in about 2.5 weeks. Apparently this guy/shop owes them some money so they figure he may be stalling or something for the moment. I told them I do not need a welder, only the pieces. I can take care of the welding through other sources. Originally, I wanted them to fab up the whole thing. It is not necessary though.

Sooo, I am expecting all the pieces to be together by Tuesday (Hopefully Monday). Of course I'll take some pics so you can see how it would look. I hope this does not become a bunch of B.S. I like these type of things to go smoothly. So.....again...I wait. ;)

If there is no progress by next Tuesday afternoon, I am going to plan B (Another shop or Ghetto style fabbing). It may get ugly. :eek:

[SVXRide]

bump for progress....

[Myxalplyx]

bump for progress....

Well, here it goes for my silliness. Picked up a couple of pipes today. Brutalized a stock SVX intake and conjured up this.

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/mini-SVXIntakeIdea1.JPGhttp://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/mini-SVXIntakeIdea2.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/mini-SVXIntakeIdea3.JPG

Now, I'm in search of something like this-->
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/autotoyaz_1895_72304098

to connect to the maf sensor. Then from the maf sensor a BIG friggin air filter that would be in the fenderwell for cooler air (Like Motorsports Cold air unit)--->
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/svx-motorsport-accessories_1894_5155167

Drill some holes for vacuum lines and such and call it a day. *sigh* Will take time! :o

[immortal_suby]

looks great!

[Budfreak]

Looking good man. Can't wait for you to finish it up and see what happens.:)

[svxfiles]

Now, I'm in search of something like this-->
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/autotoyaz_1895_72304098

to connect to the maf sensor.
I have always wanted to try this pipe.
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntt=flo%2Dy214300a&searchinresults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&y=14&x=31

[Budfreak]

I have always wanted to try this pipe.
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntt=flo%2Dy214300a&searchinresults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&y=14&x=31

That looks like a winner.;) Or like I think I said sometime earlier I think you could rig something together off of an old F150 intake where they have 2 seperate ducts for each throttle body and they have a Y pipe before the air filter. I saw one in Summit's catalog actually. I'll see if I can find it.

[Myxalplyx]

Are there any bolts or screws on the intake manifold that a vacuum hose or two could be connected too, without having to connect to the intake tubing?

[immortal_suby]

Are there any bolts or screws on the intake manifold that a vacuum hose or two could be connected too, without having to connect to the intake tubing?

You could splice in a T-fitting on there in a couple of spots. The small car shift kit uses a T fitting to get vacuum from the line that runs to the FPR.

[Trevor]

I gather that the object is to make an improvement on the original. It would be interesting to read an exact technical analysis, detailing just how this arrangement improves induction, rather than being useless, or a having a negative result. BS from an accessory manufacturer is not acceptable.

[Phast SVX]

I gather that the object is to make an improvement on the original. It would be interesting to read an exact technical analysis, detailing just how this arrangement improves induction, rather than being useless, or a having a negative result. BS from an accessory manufacturer is not acceptable.
Trevor, i tried everything in the books and there was only real improvement i came up with to improve the intake ;)

I have stressed my feelings on this matter and dont know if its worth it, but ill stand corrected if you stumble upon something.
phil

[Trevor]

Trevor, i tried everything in the books and there was only real improvement i came up with to improve the intake ;)

I have stressed my feelings on this matter and dont know if its worth it, but ill stand corrected if you stumble upon something.
phil

In any event it does look pretty. :confused: :)

[Myxalplyx]

In any event it does look pretty. :confused: :)

Trevor & PhastSVX,

I am not a very technical person. What I do is I try something, see how it works and let people like you (the experts and technical people) tell us why it works the way it does. This is the same approach I did with my Outback Sport wagon (which many said could not be ran with turbo and nitrous) for 59k miles. This is the same approach that I took when modifying my XT6 when the intake looks perfectly normal but after first doing an exhaust modification then an intake, a whopping 15hp could be found.

I don't like to argue about why something will or will not work. I will try it out, post numbers and sit back and learn. I have read much about why it should not work and I thank a whole host of people for sharing their knowledge on this subject. I am not out to prove anyone wrong or right. I have to see for myself how this works. Always have been this way for as long as I can remember.

You read about what I am trying to do now with this intake because I pointed it out. For the record, tell me how this intake will perform. I will save the quotes for when it is completed. Thanks! ;)

[Trevor]

Trevor & PhastSVX,

I am not a very technical person. What I do is I try something, see how it works and let people like you (the experts and technical people) tell us why it works the way it does. This is the same approach I did with my Outback Sport wagon (which many said could not be ran with turbo and nitrous) for 59k miles. This is the same approach that I took when modifying my XT6 when the intake looks perfectly normal but after first doing an exhaust modification then an intake, a whopping 15hp could be found.

I don't like to argue about why something will or will not work. I will try it out, post numbers and sit back and learn. I have read much about why it should not work and I thank a whole host of people for sharing their knowledge on this subject. I am not out to prove anyone wrong or right. I have to see for myself how this works. Always have been this way for as long as I can remember.

You read about what I am trying to do now with this intake because I pointed it out. For the record, tell me how this intake will perform. I will save the quotes for when it is completed. Thanks! ;)

The important point is that you are having fun and learning while doing so and it was worthwhile that you posted. As long as you gain satisfaction all else is not important.

The very small differences, positive or otherwise will be very difficult to measure. Atmospherics at the drag strip or dyno will vary from day to day as well as many other variables.

Cheers, Trevor.

[Myxalplyx]

Hrrmm....if only I can get someone that can weld good, this can be done. Still searching around....

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/mini-SVX-DualIntake1.jpghttp://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/mini-SVX-DualIntake2.jpg

This would only be the prototype version, not final. Prototype would be used to test at the strip and dyno.

[svxfiles]

That looks like like it should flow very well!:)
Have you consider getting the under hood parts ceramic coated to keep out the under hood heat.
There is a place in VA that Bill and I have used for intake manifolds.;)

[huck369]

Looking good Kevin....

[Phast SVX]

just chop it off and use silicone reducers

[Myxalplyx]

Any one of you guys have one of these around--->

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/mini-SVX2to1-1.jpg



That I can attach to my intake like SVXextasy did? -->
http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/SVXtasy/20740.jpg

I can always get a single pipe to connect to it.

[Myxalplyx]

Any one of you guys have one of these around--->

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/mini-SVX2to1-1.jpg



That I can attach to my intake like SVXextasy did? -->
http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/SVXtasy/20740.jpg



Then again, this may be all I need. I mean, the single pipe on the stock intake is 3". Why not use two 1.5" going into both throttle bodys for increased velocity? Can't flow any less right? :p Ok....will be looking to get this cut up now. :eek:

[Trevor]

[QUOTE=

Then again, this may be all I need. I mean, the single pipe on the stock intake is 3". Why not use two 1.5" going into both throttle bodys for increased velocity? Can't flow any less right? :p Ok....will be looking to get this cut up now. :eek:[/QUOTE]

If you work out the cross section areas involved, rather than assessing on the basis of diameter, you will find why there can be a lot less flow. ;)

[Myxalplyx]

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasck/mini-SVX-CustomIntake1.jpg

Not quite there yet. That straight pipe is too straight. Want it curving into the intake. The piping is a little to small overall but that is about it. 2.25" to 2.5" isn't cutting it on the main pipe. The two smaller pipes are 2.25" & 2.00". I think I rather have 3" main pipe to two 2.5" pipes. I will go for that next and hopefully get a curve into that left throttle body rather than a straight pipe. Just goofing around. Will get it right.

[Phast SVX]

what exactly is your thinking for having 2 differnt sized plenum feeds

[Myxalplyx]

what exactly is your thinking for having 2 differnt sized plenum feeds

None! It was a design flaw by the person who made it for me. At least I have a rough draft of exactly what I want to get done.

[SVXtasy]

take a look at the pics of my intake and i think that is what you are trying to get at i copied mine form what FAT did with theirs, truly i don't think there is much HP there. how we did mine was taking a 90 deg elbow and grafting another elbow on to it. it was tricky but it worked well... i think i have no data for that. i remember it being a real pain to weld the part between the two pipes. if i had it to do over again i woudl just have used the stock splitter. o right i remember why i did it out of steel i added additional injectors to it... then never used them. but hell that car has got like 500hp worth of fuel :o)

[Phast SVX]

take a look at the pics of my intake and i think that is what you are trying to get at i copied mine form what FAT did with theirs, truly i don't think there is much HP there. how we did mine was taking a 90 deg elbow and grafting another elbow on to it. it was tricky but it worked well... i think i have no data for that. i remember it being a real pain to weld the part between the two pipes. if i had it to do over again i woudl just have used the stock splitter. o right i remember why i did it out of steel i added additional injectors to it... then never used them. but hell that car has got like 500hp worth of fuel :o)

The stock plastic will not hold boost, thats why you didnt use it!. But in all seriousness, it took me about an hour to make mine, and it would be much easer. If you want to be more correct and tune it out for a true expansion chamber, you could use set back velocity stacks where i just used pipes. (What do i care, i dont need to build a charge :) )

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/Phast_SVX/33986.jpg

[Trevor]

After reading this thread I have one thing to say.

Your stock intake is not restrictive. Everyone can throw around ideas that may seem usfull but the engineers did it right the 1st time around. The MAF is set in the position it should stay in and everything behind it should not change.

Tom

Here here,

The most accurate statement within this thread.

[Myxalplyx]

Here here,

The most accurate statement within this thread.

Lol! Trevor...I don't disagree with you or Tom. I am just curious to see what happens to the power curve once what I do is completed.

Based on your calculations, and the latest type of intake design I am trying to complete, please tell me what I can expect to see. I am talking about my dyno runs that I had previously done and what I can expect to see happen to the power curve with the setup I am trying to complete now.

I just want an educated guess as to what I can expect to happen to my powerband. No what ifs or maybe's. Thanks! :D

SVXtasy...thanks for replying. If you are in a 'waiting stage' I am willing to dyno test that piece to the throttle body and send it back to you. I just want data. I did the same thing with an Ebay intake @ Nasioc because this was the same response that I got.....until the test. :eek: :p
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=706723&highlight=ebay The ebay intakes were ragged big time before this.

The XT6 intake seems to be ok to with no restrictions. Things changed after adding an intake when the exhaust was already opened up.
http://xt6.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3498&start=0

I just want data and I'm asking for help. I already have the design part in my head. Just want to know what you think will happen with this design and where in the powerband. I will gladly post the results.

[SVXtasy]

i think it is an interesting idea comparing the SVX intake to the impreza intake. and that link is very convincing. so this might just work out, wouldn't that be cool. i woudl love to send you my intake but i am in CO and it is in NM under a car cover in my dads drive way so i cant really get to it and it has those additional injectors in it. good luck i woudl very much like to see what the results are on this.

[Trevor]

Lol! Trevor...I don't disagree with you or Tom. I am just curious to see what happens to the power curve once what I do is completed.

Based on your calculations, and the latest type of intake design I am trying to complete, please tell me what I can expect to see. I am talking about my dyno runs that I had previously done and what I can expect to see happen to the power curve with the setup I am trying to complete now.

.

LOL :). I would not be silly enough to hazard a guess. Viz. Dyno runs at different times are unlikely to accurate, as an exact basis of comparison. Furthermore you have not exactly detailed the final set up you have decided to use.

The trial set up you have pictured has several serious faults. Two tubes terminate into the size of one, before opening into the larger tube. You must appreciate that that this is plainly obstructive.:confused:

[Myxalplyx]

LOL :). I would not be silly enough to hazard a guess. Viz. Dyno runs at different times are unlikely to accurate, as an exact basis of comparison. Furthermore you have not exactly detailed the final set up you have decided to use.

Dyno runs will be on the same day. 6 dyno runs total. 3 with stock intake setup and 3 with the new intake setup.

New intake setup is to be made exactly like you see SVXtasy's intake setup (and the one pictured above). 3" piping going into two 2.5" pipes that connect to the throttle body. Maf air sensor will be in it's stock location. Cone air filter will be attached to the maf sensor.

Come on...take a guess! You could be right. I respect your opinion. :D Just want to confirm your facts thats all, even though I am wasting my time. It is all in fun.

[It's Just Eric]

....I was never a fan of cone filters....something about the higher flow jsut seemed countered by the engine bay heat...Plus most people run very, very condictive aluminum intakes....you gotta figure that heat is going right into your "cold air" intake...

Unless, of course, the cone is in its own filter box typed warm air go away apparatus, and the metal intake is insulated..then youll be sitting pretty(At least from that perspective)

[Trevor]

Dyno runs will be on the same day. 6 dyno runs total. 3 with stock intake setup and 3 with the new intake setup.

New intake setup is to be made exactly like you see SVXtasy's intake setup (and the one pictured above). 3" piping going into two 2.5" pipes that connect to the throttle body. Maf air sensor will be in it's stock location. Cone air filter will be attached to the maf sensor.

Come on...take a guess! You could be right. I respect your opinion. :D Just want to confirm your facts thats all, even though I am wasting my time. It is all in fun.

I will back the original system, provided it IS original. Large effective filter area, intake from a cold high pressure location, adequate cross section throughout.

That said, in the event of close measurements, in no way do I trust a wheel dynamometer, much less the skill/knowledge of operators. Any figures recorded can only be ---:confused: because calibration can not be relied on and is hit and miss.

You would be much better served, by selecting a suitable piece of road with an upward gradient, and do comparative timed runs in second, from a standing start. :)

[Myxalplyx]

LOL :). I would not be silly enough to hazard a guess. Viz. Dyno runs at different times are unlikely to accurate, as an exact basis of comparison. Furthermore you have not exactly detailed the final set up you have decided to use.

I took from this statement that dyno runs at the same time would be accurate, but you say now-->

That said, in the event of close measurements, in no way do I trust a wheel dynamometer, much less the skill/knowledge of operators. Any figures recorded can only be ---:confused: because calibration can not be relied on and is hit and miss.

So dyno runs altogether can not be trusted. How is a person supposed to plot hp/torque figures?

You would be much better served, by selecting a suitable piece of road with an upward gradient, and do comparative timed runs in second, from a standing start. :)

I have a G-Tech Pro and can do this however I rather go to the track. I do not care for the 1/4 mile time but trap speed.

At any rate, I see your stance on this. Thanks!

[Trevor]

I took from this statement that dyno runs at the same time would be accurate, but you say now-->


What I exactly said was:- "That said, in the event of close measurements, in no way do I trust a wheel dynamometer, much less the skill/knowledge of operators. Any figures recorded can only be --- because calibration can not be relied on and is hit and miss."

If you study and take into account all the possible variables, points I have made will be appreciated. In order to obtain accurate comparative figures, in particular tyre pressures must be equal between runs, which means the same temperature. The tyre rolls on a small area and any variation rolling diameter is critical. This is not easy to achieve.

There are different types of machines. The most accurate measurement possible is torque. This can be obtained by braking the applied power with some form of resistance, applied via a lever which as such can be calibrated in pounds foot. If a direct measurement could be carefully taken, using a simple ruler and weight, the figure obtained would be accurate.

However when several transducers and instruments become involved, variations due to tolerances and wear and tear are unavoidable. A load cell is often used as a means of indicating applied torque. Figures are usually produced by combining indicated torque and RPM. The latter should be taken directly from the engine, rather than via the rolling road. Few machines, if any are checked regularly if at all. The prime object is to present a fancy print out and get paid.

The local supermarket must be able to provide factual official certification, in respect of any measurements applied to produce sold. Try asking for the same, in respect of dyno figures you are being sold. You will get heaps of blurb from the manufacturer of the machine, but nothing officially certified, particularly in respect of any individual installation.

A true dynamometer, as the word implies, consists of an electric dynamo, the output of which is absorbed by a variable resistance bank. Current and voltage measurements are taken and directly indicate power in Watts. Even then there is discrepancy, as dynamos can vary in efficiency. Braked loading in lbs foot and RPM, is again the ultimate.

You most certainly can use "dyno" testing as means of estimation, but be aware of the limitations involved and take these into account. ;)

[Tiamat-red]

If I read this correctly, this intake setup has been in the works since Jan 06??
Comon! I want results!:D :D

[TomsSVX]

you really want results?? I am gonna finish this project for him. I am using 2.5" primaries to come off the TB. They will collect into a 3" tube which will mount driectly where the stock MAF mounts so he can use both a CAI and the stock airbox to dyno different setups. I am not agreeing that this will provide any substantial gain that will be worth the effort, just doing my job;)

Kevin, I ordered the parts I will need tonight and I should be able to get started sometime mid- next week

Tom

[Myxalplyx]

Kevin, I ordered the parts I will need tonight and I should be able to get started sometime mid- next week

Tom

Thank you Tom! It now begins........:cool:

[Tiamat-red]

Finally, now I can benefit from the work of others. :D ;)

[Trevor]

you really want results?? I am gonna finish this project for him. I am using 2.5" primaries to come off the TB. They will collect into a 3" tube which will mount driectly where the stock MAF mounts so he can use both a CAI and the stock airbox to dyno different setups. I am not agreeing that this will provide any substantial gain that will be worth the effort, just doing my job;)

Kevin, I ordered the parts I will need tonight and I should be able to get started sometime mid- next week

Tom

Tom, as usual you are right on the ball. Disclaimer confirmed and noted I trust and contract documents absolutely in order. :D

[Seraphinwolf]

And with the year and five months of this all. a whole 3-4 hours of reading to catch up I can see why there are NO manufactured aftermarket intakes to be found. I stumbled on the thread this morning marked it and when i got home from work got to reading as I had time. I mean I've only had an SVX for acouple weeks so imagine my suprise as 2 TB's. I had planned at keeping it simple with an intake and crankpulley. Then I changed plans to much that same as I plan with my Impreza(3.0R engine and Tranny swap NA, Piggyback with intake and exhaust, crankpulley) Now I see the shianigans! Though very eager to see the results. I have a feeling there can be no mass improvement though as to the nature of this BEAST well all have. Just smoothing out the flow and locationg a highflow filter somewhere cool I think is all we can go(NA speaking). Still I agree try try try....

[Trevor]

Better to follow Tom and think, think, think. :)

[Seraphinwolf]

Any results yet Tom?

[Myxalplyx]

When this is all said and done Tom....mind if I call it the ToMyx Intake? :) It'll be for poops and giggles if not anything else. Just was thinking of giving it a name.

[Myxalplyx]

Twiddle, Twiddle! :(

[TomsSVX]

I need you to bring your car up So I can finish it... Did you get the new cat yet??

Tom

[Myxalplyx]

I need you to bring your car up So I can finish it... Did you get the new cat yet??

Tom

:cool: :D

Just say when and where. I am ready. Forget the cat for now. I need to get more information on the exact type it is to replace it. I do not want that to become a reason the new dyno results are different.

[Myxalplyx]

you really want results?? I am gonna finish this project for him. I am using 2.5" primaries to come off the TB. They will collect into a 3" tube which will mount driectly where the stock MAF mounts so he can use both a CAI and the stock airbox to dyno different setups. I am not agreeing that this will provide any substantial gain that will be worth the effort, just doing my job;)

Kevin, I ordered the parts I will need tonight and I should be able to get started sometime mid- next week

Tom

Summer's end is fast approaching. Gotta test at the track. :)


:D :p

[TomsSVX]

Well got the tubings from the collector to the TB's tacked up before I ran out of argon.:rolleyes: The biggest issue I am having right now is lining up the 3" tube out of the collector (2x 2.5" into 3") into the stock MAF location... Now If I could change that (Kevin has asked me not to) all would be easier said that done... I am working on it and will hopefully finish it off tomorrow after I get some more argon and get back to work... I am also rethinking how I want the tubes to join so I may chop right before the collector and change it up a little

Tom

[Myxalplyx]

Well got the tubings from the collector to the TB's tacked up before I ran out of argon.:rolleyes: The biggest issue I am having right now is lining up the 3" tube out of the collector (2x 2.5" into 3") into the stock MAF location... Now If I could change that (Kevin has asked me not to) all would be easier said that done... I am working on it and will hopefully finish it off tomorrow after I get some more argon and get back to work... I am also rethinking how I want the tubes to join so I may chop right before the collector and change it up a little

Tom


This is not looking good! Still waiting! Summer is over and I have less than a month to test this out at the strip. Not sure what you mean by if you could change the above, things would be easier. I just wanted two smooth bends coming out of the throttle body that joins into one single pipe before the stock air filter housing. I can take it from there. I have already sent $200 to you the day you said you could do it to show u I wasn't BSing around with the idea. I have been very patient.

We have talked over the phone a few times ant everthing seemed cool. I can stop by your house if you want me to so we can discuss this. I already know where you are. Maybe I am a little confused as to what you need to do and need to see hands on.

I will help out as much as I can and lend you support if you need it. I just wanted to have this done and thought a person of your expertise would wing it fairly quickly. You have other bigger projects going on but it is going on 5 months (Since early May) now.

Again, I have no problem stopping by your place. Just say when. I just didn't want to show up unexpectedly. Thanks for your support. :)

**This is being typed for documentation purposes**

[TomsSVX]

intake is finally done...sorry it took so long Kevin:o I have been uber busy. Needs a second coat of paint and to be packaged up and sent to him for fitment.... Good luck and I hope it is what you were hoping for

Tom

[Myxalplyx]

Intake is just about complete. See new thread I will start titled 'SVX ToMyx Intake'.

http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=41188

[TomsSVX]

Kevin, I was cursing up a storm when I realized I dodn't send any of the silicone couplers with it... I will send them out tomorrow

Tom