SVX Owners, Unite!

[Aredubjay]

One of the topics of discussion at the Smokey Mountains meet was the formalization of the "Subaru SVX Owner's Network." It's gonna happen, folks. We just need to work out some details.

During the next few weeks, we're going to be researching other "specialty clubs" and finding out how they work.

We've already had a mission statement and a constitution drafted. Comments are still welcome on their construction. Look for the thread in "General Babble." We will be looking for your input along the way. Since we are so widespread, I would suggest we set up some particular dates and times to "convene" in the chat room for suggestions and comments. Come prepared to take notes and prepared to make suggestions. We'd like to have input from the global SVX community as to what an "Official" SVX Network (or "club") should do for its members.

We will not let this "die on the vine" again. Speak now, or forever hold your peace -- we're pressing forward. More to come as we progress, but, hold on to your hats, once we get the ball rolling, there ain't gonna be no stoppin' it. Viva L'SVX!

[Jamsvx]

As an Irish lad living in Australia, I can confidently say that I can represent two countries where SVX's have made it!!!

And I know Joe will back me up on the emerald aspect!!!

As for anyone else here in Australia, I know there is two on the Yahoo site (both from near the north NSW coast) and a fellow in NZ and of course, Paddlesnz....who can represent Japan and NZ!!

Hmm...come to think of it, we can pretty much sew the whole global market up!

I will endeavour to contribute what I can to the Club....and it will be fun!

Jamsvx

[Aredubjay]

James,
Many thanks. I'm looking forward to this endeavor. I would really like to have Martin Rieger along for the ride. I feel he'd have a lot to contribute. Will keep everyone up to date as things progress. Again, thank you.

[Mr. Pockets]

Let me know what I can do, Randy.

END OF LINE

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by Jamsvx
As an Irish lad living in Australia, I can confidently say that I can represent two countries where SVX's have made it!!!

And I know Joe will back me up on the emerald aspect!!!

As for anyone else here in Australia, I know there is two on the Yahoo site (both from near the north NSW coast) and a fellow in NZ and of course, Paddlesnz....who can represent Japan and NZ!!

Hmm...come to think of it, we can pretty much sew the whole global market up!

I will endeavour to contribute what I can to the Club....and it will be fun!

Jamsvx
Right on, James, Paddy power and the Tiger rules!!
We have also got East and West covered. Pretty sure we would have support from the boys and girls in the UK.

Rack 'em up Randy, we're right behind ya.:)

Joe:D

[Aredubjay]

Hot damn! Now I'm getting excited! Mr. Pockets (but, my heart says "cube" :) ) thanks for chiming in we'll be letting our needs be known soon. Bill (svxter) has already made contact with the DeLorean Club. We'll also be looking at people like the Avanti club, probably the Alfa club and others. If anyone has others we may want to glean "best practices" from, then, please let us know. Drop me a PM or e-mail me at trspit80@aol.com.

Joe and James, see if you can't start recruiting. Possibly head over to the UK club and ask if they'll join our efforts. Hopefully that whole "colonist" thing won't get in the way :D. Meanwhile, something funny. When I was a small child, I couldn't understand why people from England, et al, wanted to support the University of Kentucky -- I mean, what was a kid to think -- they had "UK" stamped on everything. :D Just another one of those things that make you feel ridiculous, once the truth is known.:rolleyes:

[svxter]

I urge everyone to check out the Delorean Owners Association website:

http://www.delorean-owners.org/

They face some similar problems - a rare automobile, even rarer than the SVX, plus their manufacturer is now defunct. Fortunately, Subaru is nowhere near defunct, but if they drop all support for the SVX, we will be in the same position as the Delorean folks.

I think the SVX Owners Association, or whatever the name winds up to be, could certainly do the things that the Delorean club is doing. Perhaps this is the answer to the question that Colin posed, as to what people would get for their membership dues.

Pop over there, take a look, and share your thoughts.

[svxter]

Here's the link for the Avanti Owner's Association:

http://www.classicar.com/clubs/aoai/aoaihome.htm

And for Alfa-Romeo owners:

http://www.aroc-usa.org/main.html

[Aredubjay]

Looks like the "Avanti" guys are about our speed right now. 25 bucks a year wouldn't be bad. We'd need to start looking for an "official" printer for our publication and forms and flyers and such. A step at a time, though. Lets take our time and do it right. Suggestions? Discussions? Let's not be shy.

[Jamsvx]

Just on the issue of DeLorean's, about a week ago I came across a site (I think it was the DeLoreans owners page) where they have been persuing a mystery of their own a la the 4ws/turbo SVX.

The issue was where the moulds and metal pressings for the DeLoreans had gone when the company went under - turns out a Irish fisherman had pictures of the moulds being used as weights to hold down fishing nets for a fish farm off the Irish coast - can you imagine! There are pictures of them sending these priceless moulds over the side :(

I just hope the day never comes when we see photos of a certain production line serving as weights in a Japanese harbour.

Jamsvx

[svxxx26]

Checked out the Alfa Romeo, Avanti and DMC sites.
I didn't spend too much time on the Alfa site, as their multiple model foundation is so different from ours.
Avanti does seem to be closest to our club at the moment and they look like an excellent model.
Delorean? All I can say is "wow". Very impressive for such a rare car. Something to shoot for.
At this moment, I would be most interested in how these particular clubs took their first steps. It's like we're all standing at the starting line wanting to dash off to the finish - but don't know how to use these funky starting blocks :rolleyes:

[svxter]

I agree that both the Avanti and Delorean clubs look like reasonable models for us to draw from. I have sent e-mail to the Delorean club, asking various questions, but have yet to receive any reply. I think I'll fire something off to the Avanti group, and see what happens.

Yes, I too was much impressed by what the Delorean folks have accomplished, given that there were only 8000 of them ever built, if I am reading the right thing on their site. Surely we can accomplish as much.

If I recall correctly, the Avanti folks are having some sort of gathering in GA this summer. Since that's not too far away, I may run down and drop in on them.

[jscorse]

Just thought I'd share some comments from a co-worker in a Cobra club.

They obviously have more people from the sounds of the size of the meets, but the car is somewhat of a cult. Most of the cars in the club are kit cars. Maybe someday people will build kit cars of the SVX. It's the sincerest form of flattery, right?

Anyway, because they have the kit, they have many sponsors who help pay for and organize the many events they have.

I asked him, who has the time to organize these meets. There are a few people who's life revolve around the car and it's many kits. One guy builds several kits per year. Talk about dedicated.

Here's a link to one of there Spring Fling events: www.quickkeys.com/sprinkling/events.htm.

It's pretty thorough and looks like this company "Quickkeys" helps administrate these sort of events on the web. I don't know if we would need the services of such a company seeing as you/we all where able to set up this site.

Anyway, not too much help really. I'd agree that the Delorian club is a close match. The only difference is that that car was purchased by millionaires and ours mostly was...not. ;)

[svxter]

I've made inquiries to both the Delorean and Avanti clubs, trying to establish contact with someone who can share experiences, suggestions, etc., for getting a club going. No word so far, but I'll post info when I get it. Meanwhile, I've started a little poll about dues - how much do you think they should be? It will take some cash to get this rolling. Please take a second to punch a button. Thanks.

[svxxx26]

I've just voted on the poll, and as I was going over the choices of dues, the question in my mind was "what will I be getting from this organization that I can't get from an online (free) forum?"
The answer to that question will probably be a key factor in many peoples minds as they decide how much $$ to part with on a yearly basis.
These "basic services" provided by the organization may have been touched on in the materials that Bill posted earlier, but maybe needs to be boiled down to laymen's terms.

[jscorse]

<<Please take a second to punch a button.>>

Where?

Help please....it's my.....first time.:rolleyes:

[svxxx26]

Click on "General SVX Babble" so you can see the threads listed. Then go to the poll (it's marked with a blue & white check mark).

[jscorse]

Ya,
Sorry, after I posted that admission :rolleyes:, I saw the thread for the poll. I was looking all over for a "button". I'm ok now.

Good work. :p

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by svxter
I've made inquiries to both the Delorean and Avanti clubs, trying to establish contact with someone who can share experiences, suggestions, etc., for getting a club going. No word so far, but I'll post info when I get it. Meanwhile, I've started a little poll about dues - how much do you think they should be? It will take some cash to get this rolling. Please take a second to punch a button. Thanks.

Will do the poll Bill, it will be a barometer of what people expect.
However, there is an element of cart before horse about doing it this way. The fee should be enough to cover whatever resource the club puts up for the members. We would need to decide what we would provide for the membership fee. Put a good guestimate on this, divide by projected membership, and you have the minimum amount you need from that number of people.
As a member of the Matra Enthusiast's Club UK, I pay £15 stg a year, about $20 I think. For this I get a magazine posted out 6 times a year, but there are a lot of other things like club regalia, discounts on parts and so on. It's good value, and like with SVX's, you meet a lot of real nice folks.

Joe:)

[svxter]

Jerry, Joe

Thanks for the comments. As to what extra value you would get for the dues - that was one of the questions we kicked around a bit last Saturday night, without any clear resolution. What do you guys think? What would be your expectations for such an organization? Here's some items on my list:
Organized liason with Subaru, to encourage continued support for the SVX.
Marketing of SVX related items.
Provide an identifiable potential customer base to encourage aftermarket manufacturers.
Calendar of meets, rallys and social events.
Compilation of dealer recommendations, i.e., which ones are knowledgeable about the SVX, etc.
Member communications via electronic and print media.
I'm sure there are many others you can think of.

As to the question of dues - in a sense it is sort of cart before the horse, but it will, perhaps, give a notion of what people are willing to pay. That in turn, would help determine what the scope of activities could be. I certainly did not intend it as any kind of comittment on anyone's part, but just to get a sense of what might generally seem reasonable.

Also, the intent was to stimulate discussion.

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by Jamsvx
Just on the issue of DeLorean's, about a week ago I came across a site (I think it was the DeLoreans owners page) where they have been persuing a mystery of their own a la the 4ws/turbo SVX.

The issue was where the moulds and metal pressings for the DeLoreans had gone when the company went under - turns out a Irish fisherman had pictures of the moulds being used as weights to hold down fishing nets for a fish farm off the Irish coast - can you imagine! There are pictures of them sending these priceless moulds over the side :(

I just hope the day never comes when we see photos of a certain production line serving as weights in a Japanese harbour.

Jamsvx


James, that totally gives me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I can't imagine. When were these photos taken? Is it too late to mobilize GreenPeace to retrieve the moulds -- I mean, won't they contminate the water or something? My goodness gracious, that's certainly a travesty.

[nubs]

<<<The issue was where the moulds and metal pressings for the DeLoreans had gone when the company went under - turns out a Irish fisherman had pictures of the moulds being used as weights to hold down fishing nets for a fish farm off the Irish coast - can you imagine! There are pictures of them sending these priceless moulds over the side >>>




There is a special that they run on the History Channel about the demise of John DeLorians dream car. It says that the Irish government destroyed the molds so that there could never be any more of them made.:(

[svxxx26]

<<I certainly did not intend it as any kind of comittment on anyone's part, but just to get a sense of what might generally seem reasonable.>>

Yeah, and that's the basis on which I made my vote on the poll.
Without trying to sway anyones opinion, I really don't think we should consider anything less than $25/year, especially just starting out.

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by svxxx26
<<I certainly did not intend it as any kind of comittment on anyone's part, but just to get a sense of what might generally seem reasonable.>>

Yeah, and that's the basis on which I made my vote on the poll.
Without trying to sway anyones opinion, I really don't think we should consider anything less than $25/year, especially just starting out.


I agree, Jerry. 25.00 is a reasonable contribution to be considered a "member." I believe SCOA's dues are on the same par. Which brings up another point -- I've been considering joining SCOA for quite some time. I've just been kinda putting it off, waiting to see what happens with the SVX organization. Are there any members of SCOA on this board, and, what does one get with their membership?

Among the things that Bill has listed, I believe membership dues should also go to helping maintain this website as the "official" communication device of the "Network." Although the generous contributions of those who've put so much into it are appreciated, again, we can't expect them to carry the brunt of the expense indefinitely. I don't know if a "Network Store," "Home Page" and other elements will attached to, lead to, or become a part of these "forums" but, I suppose that will be a consideration in the future.

We had spoken about putting the cart before the horse before -- first of all, we have to have one of each before we can actually put them in correct order. Right now, we're merely shopping around the livery stable and saying "that horse is nice . . . that cart is nice . . ." Let's find us the horse and the cart we want and put them in order.

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by nubsjr
<<<The issue was where the moulds and metal pressings for the DeLoreans had gone when the company went under - turns out a Irish fisherman had pictures of the moulds being used as weights to hold down fishing nets for a fish farm off the Irish coast - can you imagine! There are pictures of them sending these priceless moulds over the side >>>




There is a special that they run on the History Channel about the demise of John DeLorians dream car. It says that the Irish government destroyed the molds so that there could never be any more of them made.:(

Just to set the record straight here on behalf of the Irish government, hopefully in a non-jingoistic fashion.

John Delorean's cars were built in Northern Ireland, and the factory was heavily subsidised by the government there, part of the UK parliament at the time, and still is UK, but with a local parliament.
They had serious egg on their faces over the heavy loss, and they would not have wanted Delorean setting up in South Africa say, and using the moulds and assembley lines that had been paid for by British money. Must say I sympathise with them, and would have done the same thing.
Also, without wishing to offend Delorean fans, and I've met a few, those cars were seriously over-rated. Motive power was a bog standard Renault 30 drivetrain, the car was heavy, so power to weight ratio was wrong, and the styling owes more to functionality than elegance. The car the Delorean should have been is the Renault Alpine A610, an absolutely fabulous car that did not sell in the numbers it deserved to.

Joe:)

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by Aredubjay



I agree, Jerry. 25.00 is a reasonable contribution to be considered a "member." I believe SCOA's dues are on the same par. Which brings up another point -- I've been considering joining SCOA for quite some time. I've just been kinda putting it off, waiting to see what happens with the SVX organization. Are there any members of SCOA on this board, and, what does one get with their membership?

Among the things that Bill has listed, I believe membership dues should also go to helping maintain this website as the "official" communication device of the "Network." Although the generous contributions of those who've put so much into it are appreciated, again, we can't expect them to carry the brunt of the expense indefinitely. I don't know if a "Network Store," "Home Page" and other elements will attached to, lead to, or become a part of these "forums" but, I suppose that will be a consideration in the future.

We had spoken about putting the cart before the horse before -- first of all, we have to have one of each before we can actually put them in correct order. Right now, we're merely shopping around the livery stable and saying "that horse is nice . . . that cart is nice . . ." Let's find us the horse and the cart we want and put them in order.

Aredubjay,
A couple of good points. Most clubs host meetings, events, do shows, publish magazines and so on. All of these contribute to the life of the club, and most have a cost. My original comment re cart and horse was just to make the point that there is a relationship between the cost of what is supplied, and the amount and resource the club is providing for the members.

It is perfectly feasable to start the club at the level of fees most consider reasonable, and then dispense resource at the level that suits for current membership numbers. In this respect, I think it is very important that some percentage or set amount of the fees be diverted to support the work that has already been done by the people who have devised this website. I am in awe of what they have achieved.

Joe:)

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by svxistentialist


Aredubjay,
A couple of good points. Most clubs host meetings, events, do shows, publish magazines and so on. All of these contribute to the life of the club, and most have a cost. My original comment re cart and horse was just to make the point that there is a relationship between the cost of what is supplied, and the amount and resource the club is providing for the members.

It is perfectly feasable to start the club at the level of fees most consider reasonable, and then dispense resource at the level that suits for current membership numbers. In this respect, I think it is very important that some percentage or set amount of the fees be diverted to support the work that has already been done by the people who have devised this website. I am in awe of what they have achieved.

Joe:)


Just to clarify, since the printed word does not allow the luxury of seeing expression on faces nor tones of voice, the "cart before horse" comment did not offend. It was valid.

Unfortunately, as I look through the posts that show interest in this thread, we number somewhere around six or eight -- hardly a "respectable" showing among our current board membership of 152.

Since I started this thread in hopes of guaging, once and for all, an interest in "formally organizing," I'll have to say that I'm sorely disappointed at this point. I can see the possible recurrance of the pattern of the origination of this board, which was: when asked to supply input, people, for the most part, remained silent, but were willing to offer input "after the fact" to which, the administrators have reacted admirably while the reaction could've been, "sorry, where were you when we asked."

My point, in all this drivel, is this: it is imperative that we receive maximum input from the people who will benefit from the formal organization. We cannot (a miniscule percentage of us) create this organization and risk it's falling on its face because "after the fact" suggestions cannot (for whatever reason) be met. That's not good for our "customer satisfaction index." When we go into this, we want a strong, cohesive unit that is unified in its purpose and pathway -- only then, can we reap the benefits (ie Aftermarket parts, discounts, SOA support, etc.) that we seek and, may I add, deserve. Just my two cents (okay, maybe 25.00) worth.

[svxistentialist]

Beg to differ on the use of the word "drivel" This is reasoned debate.

I made a point to Bill we ought to consider a different name than SVX Owner's *, simply because a lot of people [still] fall in love first, marry later.

Another point in favour of a more expansive approach; thanks to the web, this is a global community. Target support organisation here should be Fuji Japan, not SOA. On Yahoo and this site, there are 4 main markets represented:
1) USA
2) Japan
3) Antipodeans
4) UK/Ireland

A club representing all these groups could reasonably expect by volume to command the attention of the home corporation. Also, we are possibly able to demand better technical support for the cars in all markets. The primary communication organ here is the web. Let's use it for member's benefit. About time some of this technological boom we are promised ended up in our back pockets.

Joe:)

[Aredubjay]

And, may I use my 501st post merely to say, amen.

[nvrmore100]

This is just a thought. For now...why not wait on the dues. I agree with the whole idea, and I think its a great one. The only thing is like you had said "What will I be getting from my money?". Why not, just for a start, make a easy to fill out form with where you are from, type of SVX etc. Something that is browseable via the net, even off this site. This will get the ball rolling, and won't keep the idea from dying down. Later on we can worry about club events, keychains, etc...etc...etc... Maybe just a featured SVX for the week to show off each owners ride. I also own a Sunfire which I joined up to the J-Body club with. They are here:

http://www.j-body.org

I can't say they have the best site, or the best events. However, by not really making things too involved right off the bat, they managed to get to over 40 or 50 times the members in it when I first joined. Also this made it much easier for me (being in Calgary...no where near where they are located), to keep up with club events and such. This would greatly help out people half way across the world trying to keep current.

One possible idea, would be start small and just make up a bunch of svx-net logos or something like that, that members could put on. These can be made for pennies when enough are done.

Just my two cents.

Ryan

[eddycat2000]

Originally posted by svxistentialist

3) Antipodeans


Joe, I cannot in good conscience become a member that includes people that are against feet. I myself have two feet. And while dancing they both seem like left feet, and are not attractive to boot, I certainly am not an antipod. But I can understand where some people might not like feet, people that use rowboats a lot may not have a use for their feet for instance. But that is no excuse for being an antipodean. What this world needs is a little more understanding....hang on a sec...


What?.....Ohhhhhh...never mind.:rolleyes:

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by eddycat2000


Joe, I cannot in good conscience become a member that includes people that are against feet. I myself have two feet. And while dancing they both seem like left feet, and are not attractive to boot, I certainly am not an antipod. But I can understand where some people might not like feet, people that use rowboats a lot may not have a use for their feet for instance. But that is no excuse for being an antipodean. What this world needs is a little more understanding....hang on a sec...


What?.....Ohhhhhh...never mind.:rolleyes:

Eddycat

I was just lumping all those semi-English speaking Whizzers from Oz together for marketing purposes.

You being from Idaho instead of Kansas, plus having a cat instead of a Toto, you wouldn't understand the logic.

Joe:D

[Jamsvx]

Re the DeLorean:

I should have put in the post that the moulds were, apparently, always the propert of a German company, Thyssen - something and it was they who got rid of the moulds by selling them as scrap to a merchant who then was the one that dumped them.

Joe, I would agree with the comments on the actual 'reality' of the DeLorean and would love to get my hands on an A610 - I think there is one here in Oz (it was on the Maserati Owners Club photo page) and it seems to have flopped also, despite quite stunning performance.

Funnily enough, it has twice been compared to the SVX in magazine comparisons, one of which is on my site and the other one should be up there by weeks end.

Re the Club:
The only thing that I would have to add re: dues etc is that I would agree that the central focus be FHI rather than SOA for the fact that there are a few of us here outside CONUS: ie; perhaps a reduced series of fees apply to us since we would not be able to avail ourselves of the same product/services as our US counterparts.

Whatever the result, I agree wholeheartedly with the suggestion that the motive force/s behind this website be given whatever support (and of whatever kind) to keep what is quite simply, a brilliant format, up and running.

On a final note Aredubjay, I can empathise with your comments re: expressions of interest. With my little idea of an SVX specific keyring, I have only had a few replies - and if that is the response to a keyring, what would be the response towards jackets, umbrellas etc etc etc......just a thought when considering what the 'offerings' would be when trying to convince people that dues/fees should apply.

My 2.2cents (inc GST) (a new tax we just got last year....booooo, hissssssssssss):D

Jamsvx

[svxxx26]

Regarding the lack of participation in this discussion on the new club/organization: call it human nature, for want of a better term.
Hate to continually drag out the BMW club as an example, but in my stay there (4+ years) it was usually - with little exeption - the same people year in and year out that participated in the events and operations of the club. Beyond that was the great silent majority that paid thir dues, got the magazine/newsletter and were never seen or heard from.
The real down side to this was burnout. Eventually club office holders - me included - just got tired of carrying everyone else. This all happened on the local level, the national organization seemed to be better, but even so, you tended to see the same people at the national events.
The upside? The small minority of us "active" participants can pretty much reap the benefits of the silent majority's dues!;)

[svxter]

Good ideas, all, keep them coming. Joe has a good point about any potential names - it shouldn't imply that ownership is required; only an interest. Also, based in part on his comments, I am feeling more comfortable with a notion I raised some time back - that it should be international in scope. Maybe step one of getting the horse out of the stable, and ready to be harnessed, is to think of a name. Maybe if we can settle that issue, we can try for step two. Giddyup!

[Aredubjay]

"SVX Enthusiast Network" ?

Anybody got a contact at FHI?

How 'bout "paddysvx?" Over in GUNMA? Think you can find one of the old engineers? Be nice to chat with 'em and maybe get some insider's views on how to get some support.

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by eddycat2000


Joe, I cannot in good conscience become a member that includes people that are against feet. I myself have two feet. And while dancing they both seem like left feet, and are not attractive to boot, I certainly am not an antipod. But I can understand where some people might not like feet, people that use rowboats a lot may not have a use for their feet for instance. But that is no excuse for being an antipodean. What this world needs is a little more understanding....hang on a sec...


What?.....Ohhhhhh...never mind.:rolleyes:


Eddy, this is not "Gilda Radner" material. I think Andy Rooney had better be looking over his shoulder. :D

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by Aredubjay
"SVX Enthusiast Network" ?

Anybody got a contact at FHI?

How 'bout "paddysvx?" Over in GUNMA? Think you can find one of the old engineers? Be nice to chat with 'em and maybe get some insider's views on how to get some support.

Randy, it's paddles not paddy, and he's anzac not Irish. One of the better things we could achieve would be to have affiliation or membership from some one or persons who are in the Japanese club or clubs.

They are closer to Fuji, and would have an instant line on available modifications and parts availability.

How about "SVX Network" or "SVX World Network"??

[paddlesnz]

Originally posted by Aredubjay
"SVX Enthusiast Network" ?

Anybody got a contact at FHI?

How 'bout "paddysvx?" Over in GUNMA? Think you can find one of the old engineers? Be nice to chat with 'em and maybe get some insider's views on how to get some support.

Currently enjoying some R & R in sunny California. Will have a look into it when I get back. I was going to vist the factory some time soon but will have to get time off work which isn't that easy at the moment.

paddlesnz
Gunma
JAPAN

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by svxistentialist


Randy, it's paddles not paddy, and he's anzac not Irish. One of the better things we could achieve would be to have affiliation or membership from some one or persons who are in the Japanese club or clubs.

They are closer to Fuji, and would have an instant line on available modifications and parts availability.

How about "SVX Network" or "SVX World Network"??

I was being "familiar." Kinda like when people call me "aredub" -- just one big happy family, huh? :D Anzac? Do you mix that with coke, water, or just on the rocks -- oh, of course, YOU'D have it "neat." :D

Agreed on the Japanese affiliation, and I do like "SVX World Network." Has a "ring" to it.

[svxter]

International SVX Network
International SVX Enthusiasts Association
SVX World Association
SVX Club International
International SVX Association
Alcyone International

[svxxx26]

SVX Club International and SVX World Network both sound good.
Alcyone International is my personal favorite, but I imagine that we would just get blank stares from the uninitiated - but then again, we do anyway! :rolleyes:

[Jamsvx]

-Global SVX Network

-Global Alycone Network

-SVX Empire

-Fuji Heavy Industries SVX Global Division (sounds like a military unit!)

-Domininion of the H6:p

Jamsvx

[svxxx26]

Soooo . . . what's going on with this now, guys?
I don't really have anything to add at this point - but don't want this thread to be buried again either.

[Aredubjay]

Okay, I like SVX World Network, and will place my vote for such. Any seconds? Thirds, fourths, FIFTHS! I'll take the fifth! I won't plead the fifth! --- oh my, but I digress . . . Besides, it'll fit nicely into the new logo, eh. John? Could you fix that one small thing? :D

[huck369]

"SVX World Network" Sounds good to me too!

[svxistentialist]

Yes

SVX World Network has a very good ring to it and gets my vote also.

Jerry likes Alcyone International which is even more attractive sound wise, but the name only means something to Japanese owners, as it was used only in that market. But SVX was used world wide.

Good idea to start small and offer whatever value can be given for the initial fee, assuming it is 25 bucks. Revenue is sure to increase with larger numbers, and more ambitious projects undertaken.

Once paid membership is a reality, consideration will have to be given as to what functions are "members only". We would also need to be careful about painting the club into a corner with ambition. By this I mean if we can sign up 100 people for $10, but only interest 30 for $25, it would be prudent to start off small to build the membership base, and by consent, increase the fees for year two as extra value is offered and increasing numbers are delivering revenue. I am not being mean spirited about this, I voted for $25, but I see the need for a speedy build-up of members to underpin viability.

Final point, the main rival for most owners will be the Yahoo club, which is free. It would be a good incentive scheme to support Jamsvx dedicated key ring, and offer one of these in the post to every new member. This will give them something concrete to show for membership. We will not be in a good position to negotiate discounts for members from parts suppliers and so on until membership passes a critical mass.

My two pence worth
{We have no common cents over here}

Joe:D

[nvrmore100]

I agree. A keyring, window decal, etc. would be a nice thing to have as a solid piece to prove membership. Another idea might be cheaper to produce, and thus could make memberships a little cheaper at first. Possibly a certificate your name, VIN, year, etc. or it saying its now part of the all esteemed club. This should be quite simple to produce in large quantities for cheap. However I must say I would be happier getting a nice keychain. :)

[svxxx26]

Fuji Heavy Industries SVX Global Division, Alcyone Special Operations Unit is my No. 1 choice. Just think of the cool uniforms we can wear . . . oh, never mind - SVX World Network will do :rolleyes:

Joe and nvrmore, great points - based soundly in reality. We'll have to provide some concrete perks for club members. A SVX Registry would be cool to have also.

[svxxx26]

Speaking of uniforms, hehe . . . how about a black polo/golf type shirt with the new club logo stitched on the chest? Nice . . . :cool:

[Aredubjay]

Joe,
You're singing the right song!

Not only is Alcyone a Japanese market-only name, it seems nobody can agree on how to pronounce it (Although a credible source has told me it is al-see-OWN). I've heard everything from "Alky-one" (number one alcoholic?) to "Al-see-own-ee." It's tough enough trying to agree on Giorgetto Giugiaro.

Small to large would be good, but, at ten bucks a head, I don't think we could supply Key tags, newsletter and postage for such. If there is sufficient revenue at the end of the fiscal year, there should be no need to raise dues, but, yes, there should be consent before any dues hikes are delivered.

Mean spirited? I don't see that at all. This is "discussion" -- this is YOUR Network, you deserve input and as long as decorum is maintained, nothing should be considered as "mean spirited."

Competition, from Yahoo? I don't consider Yahoo competition at all. They are our Brothers/Sisters. Membership there gives them access to a board, nothing else. The Network will not just be this Board -- the board, however will be considered the official communications device of the Network. We will be offering Yahoo, I-club, SVXtreme, ad infinitum an official organization, whether this board continues to exist, or not. Whomever becomes the elected officers will have real mailboxes, with real addresses, and real phone numbers (should they care to disclose them). They will be included in the newsletter (hands on "touchy feely" stuff).

There are many "Subaru" sites. There is one SCOA. There may be many SVX "sites" but there will be only one SVX World Network. Let's shed the mentality that this is "site vs site" here. We're talking about blood and bones participation in an "organization." Of course, that is, if people will get behind it. Otherwise, I believe the terminology is "Pipe Dream."

[nvrmore100]

Good point on the postage. I'm thinking nation wide...but I'm looking too small scale. We would have to keep the price within a reasonable limit, however enough that you can send a keychain halfway around the world. :)

[zsvx]

Originally posted by Aredubjay
Joe,
You're singing the right song!

Not only is Alcyone a Japanese market-only name, it seems nobody can agree on how to pronounce it (Although a credible source has told me it is al-see-OWN). I've heard everything from "Alky-one" (number one alcoholic?) to "Al-see-own-ee." It's tough enough trying to agree on Giorgetto Giugiaro.
According to the American Heritage Dictionary its al-see-ah-nee. Although number one alcoholic is funnier :D

Edit: sorry my dictionary skills are lacking (see what happens when you don't pay attention in english class :) ) I think the correct pronounciation is al-sye-ah-nee. That makes more sense if you break the word down Al-cy-on-e

[Jamsvx]

Damn, only one vote of support for the FHI Alycone Division!!!:mad:

And was I already making a uniform, writing a stirring ode to the SVX, inquiring as to whether I could legally change my name to Jamsvx - ah well, best laid plans and all that!!!!;)

Re the club issue, I agree with my fellow Irishman - start the membership fee off small then increase as the membership base also increases. Don't forget, $25US = $50AU....it doesn't cost that to join a lot of real world clubs here in Oz (real world being tennis, sports etc etc)!!!

Its good to see support coming out for the keyring idea - postage "to the other side of the world" would be miniscule - they don't weight very much and as for the carbon-fibre one, it would be quite cheap to send a box load of them to the US and thence distribute them from there.

*Jamsvx jumps up and down for SVX pyjamas!*

Can anyone say 'obsessive!'

Jamsvx

[Aredubjay]

James,
We would definitely take into consideration the exchange rate for our brothers and sisters 'round the world.

Pajamas, hmmmmm, covered head to toe (yes, they'd have to have feet in them, and a trap door) with the wonderful SVX World Network Oval Logo. I like it. I'll see if I can't contact someone at Fruit of the Loom. :D


Originally posted by Jamsvx
Damn, only one vote of support for the FHI Alycone Division!!!:mad:

And was I already making a uniform, writing a stirring ode to the SVX, inquiring as to whether I could legally change my name to Jamsvx - ah well, best laid plans and all that!!!!;)

Re the club issue, I agree with my fellow Irishman - start the membership fee off small then increase as the membership base also increases. Don't forget, $25US = $50AU....it doesn't cost that to join a lot of real world clubs here in Oz (real world being tennis, sports etc etc)!!!

Its good to see support coming out for the keyring idea - postage "to the other side of the world" would be miniscule - they don't weight very much and as for the carbon-fibre one, it would be quite cheap to send a box load of them to the US and thence distribute them from there.

*Jamsvx jumps up and down for SVX pyjamas!*

Can anyone say 'obsessive!'

Jamsvx

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by Jamsvx
Damn, only one vote of support for the FHI Alycone Division!!!:mad:


*Jamsvx jumps up and down for SVX pyjamas!*

Can anyone say 'obsessive!'

Jamsvx

Not only can you say obsessive, it is a prerequisite of membership!!!

Good point on the postage James. Also, we should be thinking of the club emblem as a window sticker for everybody. As it contains the web address, anyone who is interested in the cars can log into the club scene.

SVX register is also great, we have that in the Matra club. This should be reserved for members only, and contain detail like chassis numbers and so on, also mileage to defeat "clockers"

I can see us all sporting Aussie key-rings yet!!

Joe

[FlagstaffSVX]

Sorry for my absence (and interpreted lack of intrest) in this string. I was busy with AP tests and finals today and for the next two weeks.

First off, $25 is what I voted for, for a 17 year old, $25 is... doo-able.
Secondly, I've always pronounced it Al-see-on, like the word Halcyon. (hal-see-on)
Thirdly, what would I do with a second keychain? I don't know about you guys but I'm one of those people who has 4 keys on my keychain (and the keychain always serves a purpose such as a digital tire pressure gague, a keyless entry system, or a Star Trek Communicator to get the chicks attention) because I can't stand having a gigantic bulge in my pocket. (like I said, I'm 17:-))
Fourthly, I would love some sort of store where we could buy logo merchandise. A friend of mine has a really nice, plain white T-shirt with a big C embroidered on it for C-class. (mercedes fan) I would love a polo or a black turtleneck with some sort of logo on it.

[just my .01+.01+.01+.01=.04 cents] :¬)

[paddlesnz]

Originally posted by Aredubjay

Not only is Alcyone a Japanese market-only name, it seems nobody can agree on how to pronounce it (Although a credible source has told me it is al-see-OWN). I've heard everything from "Alky-one" (number one alcoholic?) to "Al-see-own-ee." It's tough enough trying to agree on Giorgetto Giugiaro.
[/B]

The Japanese pronunciation is al-see-own-eh. Even though the official name here is Alcyone SVX, almost everybody only uses the name Alcyone.

On a side note, nearby where I work, I have seen many times a yellow/green Alcyone (which wasn't a color available in Japan) with 'Ital Design' and 'Giorgetto Giugiaro' stickers on it and today I spoke to the owner. She said it was a one-off vehicle by Subaru but she wasn't sure of the reason behind it. Not sure if it had any other unique features. Who knows what other one-off Alcyone's may be lurking around Japan???

paddlesnz
Gunma
JAPAN

[Aredubjay]

Craig,
At 17, I always wanted to keep a bulge in my pocket (can you say "rolled up tube sock.") Of course my "teen aged" years were in the days of tight (not loose) jeans (bell bottoms/hip huggers). (Remember the Akroyd/Martin skits on SNL -- "Two wild and crazy guys! We are wearing our tight jeans so the young American fox-es can see our bulge-es!")

I only have two keys on my SVX keyfob. But, I carry an extra key ring with office and other keys on it -- that's where I'd use the "club" key ring, should it become available. And, yes, I believe a logo merchandise store is a consideration. I don't know who will become our preferred vendor, but, we'll be checking into it, if and when, we settle on an "organization."

[svxter]

It seems we're moving toward a consensus of the name being SVX World Network; sounds good to me.

Organizational considerations. I feel it is time to move toward establishing some formal structure for the club. This means things such as some club officials, an address, establishing a checking account to receive dues and contributions, etc. To me, this suggests a steering committee of some sort to deal with these issues, and arrive at some sort of proposal. Perhaps, by default, the people posting to this thread constitute that committee. Or perhaps we can select a smaller group to meet by e-mail or chat, and offer some concrete proposals. In whatever way it is accomplished, I think there needs to be a group identified by name, and charged with the following tasks as a minimum:
1. Establishing an official mailing address.
2. Establishing a bank account.
3. Dealing with the question of incorporation and registration.
4. Identifying an initial slate of officers. On a side note to this: While I personally think Randy might be an excellent choice for a president, advancing anyone's name at this time seems premature. (See the "Randy" thread.) I think there sould be a complete slate of officers presented. The most important first officer might actually be the treasurer, or at least someone appointed to be an interim treasurer. This person, in my view, must be bonded. There are also persons for the board of directors to be identified. And before anyone's name is put forth, I think there should be some discussion with that person as to their willingness to serve, and some resumes presented.
5. Devising a mechanism to identify who are the members. This is not necessarily the same group as the people who are registered on this board. It may be that the members are those that come forth with dues, in which case we are back to points 2 and 4., plus having to decide on initial dues.
6. Devising a way of putting proposals to the members for a vote.

I think it's time to move to the next step, that of putting at least a skeletal organization in place, and soliciting members. So, how does everyone think that will best be accomplished? The people that post to this thread are the ones that are going to do it, so, let's do it.

On another note: I've never received any response to my queries to the Delorean and Avanti clubs as to how they got their organizations started.

Just my thoughts.

[eddycat2000]

I don't understand the reasoning for a resume. I've been a member of many clubs over ther years, and served in a variety of positions in those clubs. I've never had to have a resume to do that, and quite frankly what would you check on a resume from a 4x4 club in Billings, Montana that probably is defunct now (20 years later)? I do want to state right here and now that I have no intention of even applying for some sort of position within the club structure, other than maybe being a member. My personal life has to get a bit less bumpy before I'd be willing to do that. I think we're starting to take this thing just a bit too seriously. It's a bunch of folks that like their cars, and want to get together occasionally for meets and stuff after all, we aren't deciding worldly affairs. Heck, if you want to get that deep into it, you'd have to hire an attorney, and then watch for patent and product infringement. Right now we're just a few people that might want to make a club decal or buy a carbon fiber hood, (that appears to have turned into a mess).

It almost sounds to me that some people want to charge for the use of this board and then if you aren't a member you can't attend the meets. Is that really what this site is all about? What's up with the dues thing? You can't buy a keyring or decal if you're not a dues paying member? Sounds like a bad road to start down to me. Not that I wouldn't mind making a *voluntary* contribution as it might be needed. I guess I just need a little help understanding the necessity of a structured club situation, and a dues system for a bunch of people that just like the car they own and want to talk about them and maybe get together once in awhile. I can guarantee you that if dues become mandatory here, I will no longer be here. And I think that while most of us could afford some sort of dues program...why? Just put the keychains and decals up for sale...for people that want them. Are you going to offer something new every year for dues paying members as an incentive?

Guys, this is just a car. A *great* car no doubt. But why bugger up a system that seems to be working well with a bunch of mumbo jumbo that ain't required? As evidence that the system as it is works pretty well, look at how many people offered to help Chris out when he had his power supply problem! Heck, even I have offered to send parts that I have to people (at no charge), just to help them out, should I not offer to help people that aren't dues paying members?

Think about it, I have been.

[Aredubjay]

First of all, eddy, no one is nor will they be required to pay dues to be a part of this board. That is not the case. Though a portion of dues will be used to maintain the physical properties of the board for everyone to use -- free of charge. It will merely be the designated point for all "official" network communications. Yes, the willingness of everyone to help is admirable, and that should not change. Point is, the power supply that was sent to Chris was faulty (unbenownced to the donor) and one still has to be acquired. Dues would have bought a new one, with warranty, behind the scenes and things could've gone on seamlessly. We don't want Chris to have to "beg" every time he needs something. Again, dues would not be required to be a member of this board.

Rolls Royces are "just cars" so are DeLoreans, Mercedes, Avantis, Hudsons, Morris Minis, ad infinitum ad nauseum -- they still organize -- To promote awareness, to "unify" for the purpose of letting people know that there is a concentrated market for parts, and so on. We can bounce around independently, whining about the parts supply drying up, or we can organize and say "look, there are a bunch of us who need parts, we have money to spend, please keep us in mind." Also, to say, "here is a volume of members who can guarantee that you will make a little money on your parts even if you sell them at a discount. So, can you help us out, please." Also, a letter from the president of an organization holds a little more weight than one from Joe Blow SVX owner.

The "organization" also prevents people from having to pop in on the board and say, "hey, when's the next meet? Did I miss it?" A newsletter would keep us up to date, as well as posting to this site in the network calendar (with the organization, someone would be given the charge to maintain it -- or, did anyone even know we have a calendar?)

I'm not saying we should set up corporate offices on Madison Avenue and get "stuffed shirt persnickety" about organizing, but, I will say that it could be of benefit and will serve a useful purpose. It will do a few things like, send a letter to a company and light a fire under them, if they're dragging their feet on a project like carbon fiber hoods. It would arrange for and compile and provide a place to buy your keyrings, jackets, shirts and so forth, instead of depending on someone to pipe up and say, hey, let's make some shirts, and you get a short run, and people say, where'd ya get that? And you have to say, it's a short run and there aren't any more.

As for resumes, I'm with you on that. If people were to see my resume, they'd probably run screaming.

If you don't want to be a part, nor want to join, that's perfectly alright. You're still welcome at all functions and to participate on this board, free of charge. Just like SCOA, I've been invited to come along, as many of us have, even though some of us aren't members, on many of their tours.

Just don't poo poo the efforts of those who see value, are willing to do the work and want to do something further to help look out for the owners of these *great" cars -- members, or not.

[nvrmore100]

[QUOTE][i]Point is, the power supply that was sent to Chris was faulty (unbenownced to the donor) and one still has to be acquired.]

What kind is it? Ryan = major computer geek. If it's just an ATX power supply I have 3 of them sitting my closet collecting dust! Let me know what you guys need, I may be able to help out. I can't say I have a lot that's all the great I'm willing to part with, but something simple like that I'm sure I have extra's of.

Ryan

[Aredubjay]

Ryan,
I can't seem to find the thread now. Just send Chris (vidar) a PM and let him know what you've got, or, click on the "Contact Us" link at the bottom of the page. I believe he needed a 350 Watt Power supply. Contact him to make sure, and thanks a lot.

[eddycat2000]

Originally posted by Aredubjay


Just don't poo poo the efforts of those who see value, are willing to do the work and want to do something further to help look out for the owners of these *great" cars -- members, or not.

Sorry, I didn't know that having an opposing view was "poo-pooing" anything. I had thought my input into the discussion might be valued, I guess not. From now on I will refrain from expressing my opinion here, I'll just sit in the back of the bus and listen to the grand plans for this site.

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by eddycat2000


Sorry, I didn't know that having an opposing view was "poo-pooing" anything. I had thought my input into the discussion might be valued, I guess not. From now on I will refrain from expressing my opinion here, I'll just sit in the back of the bus and listen to the grand plans for this site.

Wah! Wah! Wah! What a cry-baby. My opposition to your opposition is of less value than your opposition? If you are going to present an opposing view, do I not have the right to state my case and oppose your opposition? Everyone's view is valued and considered. Let the debate continue. Sit in the back of the bus if you want -- just remember -- Eric's driving. :D

[svxcess]

I checked with 3 sources in the field of astronomy. Dr. Hickok teaches Astrononmy at the University where I work. He confirmed with another at the Goddard Space Flight Center here and one at the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab here.

The unanimous concensus is that in Alcyone the last "e" is pronounced separately. So it is either "Al-see-own-e" or as in the above post by paddlenz (AL-see-own-eh) They all agree it is not Al-see-OWN, although I like this pronunciation the best.

I guess, unless you're talking about this to a scientist, it would be hard to look stupid.

[Aredubjay]

Hmmm. The last time I ordered "Calzon-eh" at an Italian Restaurant, they looked at me like I had two heads. Mike Galione, just about punched me when I called him Mr. Galion-eh. I guess the Latin "purists" don't mind the, eh, eh?

[svxxx26]

<<I'll just sit in the back of the bus and listen to the grand plans for this site.>>

Ummm . . . Eddy, you do realize that this is the same bus that Eric's driving, right? :eek:

Anyways, my .02:
I can see where the term "resume" might put some people off, but I see nothing wrong with getting "serious" about this club or organization or whatever it ends up being called.
I sometimes wonder what will become of this board and the one on Yahoo (among others!) on down the road, say 5-10+ years, when parts/factory support really does start to dry up.
Personally, I intend to keep this SVX for LIFE. That's going to be pretty hard to do as the years go by, without the benefit of a solid owners organization to help me - not just with the kind expertise people like Eddy can contribute (invaluable as it is), but with the capability to actually produce parts that are long out of production.
Granted, the system does work pretty well for us NOW - just don't think it can last. And this has all been so much fun for me - the car, the people, the friends we've made - that I want to do all I can to make it last!

[eddycat2000]

Originally posted by Aredubjay


Wah! Wah! Wah! What a cry-baby

Wow, straight out of left field, didn't even have a clue that one would come along. I would have expected a more mature response from the grand high exalted poobah, but I was probably wrong in my thinking there too.

As for Eric driving the bus, he's never mentioned an accident, (that I can recall), so I might slightly soil my undies getting to the destination, but I'd get there *real* quick.:)

[Aredubjay]

<<Wow, straight out of left field, didn't even have a clue that one would come along. I would have expected a more mature response from the grand high exalted poobah, but I was probably wrong in my thinking there too.>>

I have my moments of immaturity. I am actually capable of much worse when I'm trying to stifle my basic "redneck" self.
But, as you're beginning to discover, you actually can be wrong about some things. As far as grand high exalted poobah, I've given up that title. I tried to change it to "NOT the president" today, but, looks like I've been locked out of changing my "titles."

Buses notwithstanding, the last time I saw Eric, he was on crutches. He was recovering from a spill down a mountain from a skiing trip which he took shortly after recovering from injuries sustained from a previous skiing trip --- still wanna ride? :D

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by svxcess
I checked with 3 sources in the field of astronomy. Dr. Hickok teaches Astrononmy at the University where I work. He confirmed with another at the Goddard Space Flight Center here and one at the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab here.

The unanimous concensus is that in Alcyone the last "e" is pronounced separately. So it is either "Al-see-own-e" or as in the above post by paddlenz (AL-see-own-eh) They all agree it is not Al-see-OWN, although I like this pronunciation the best.

I guess, unless you're talking about this to a scientist, it would be hard to look stupid.

Having once considered myself a scientist, I agree with paddlesnz and his Japanese pronounciation. Flagstaff has it correct, he regards it the same as halcyon, and I figure it is the Spanish, more likely the Italian for halcyon, and the e at the end has to be accented.
Halcyon I think means pinnacle or best, but it's all Greek to me.

Joe:)

Maybe we should ask Peppe? Eddie....????

[svxistentialist]

Hey,

You big boys drink up your warm milk. Most recent posts have been of the constructive variety, till lately. Bottom line is with on-line clubs, you can have dozens, hundreds, and as informal as you like. How much clout will each one have?

With income, a club can provide facilities for members, and can centralise information and deal on member's behalf with the authority of shared experience on issues of warranty and availability of parts .

Problem is, with income, comes responsibility. In principle I agree with eddycat, we don't need to be hiring lawyers and paying for copyright infringement. But if we put the structures in place to provide worthwhile extras for members, we have to ensure that members funds do not go astray.

I have been in clubs where common funds went missing, and sometimes the people in charge of the money too. { The money first, then the people. We frown on that kind of stuff round here!}

If it is worthwhile funding endeavour, it is imperative to ensure funds are properly handled. This can not be done on an informal basis. One of the most valuable assets of this club is the goodwill and help of eddycat and aredubjay and jamsvx and paddles et al, so please guys and girls, don't get personal. Join in, it's a big adventure, everybody welcome, everybody wins!!!

Joe

[Jamsvx]

Firstly, I am packing up and moving to Japan! I want to be able to walk down a street in Tokyo and be able to see, crawling towards me in the traffic chaos, the unique front of an SVX but.....hang on, he's mounted the footpath, I can hear twin turbos spooling up...PSSSSSSSSTttttttt....oh my, he's now stopped, the blow off valves venting the excess air, the top...the TOP!!! is retracting into the rear a la SLK and ...I don't believe it....it has a 6 speed transmission....Oh joys of joys, I have departed this mortal coil and my little rowboat has deposited me on the shores of SVX Island (a throwback to the great Yahoo war on the twin turbo/4ws SVX for those veterans!!)

:D

On a more serious note, I think that eddy has made a few salient points. The degree to which the club is being contemplated (board, resolution etc) is something that, although as has been correctly pointed out, add force of weight to a letter etc, is something that I think should come later in the evolution of this club. By way of example, I am a quasi-member (sort of) a group of people who own Ferrari's and on a few occasions, have went along with them on both their own drives and also with the nationally organised club (being with a newsletter, president, board etc etc).....two completely different environments. One group sat around, had a chat, then trashed the life out of the cars....the other sat around, continued to sit around, had a lonnnnnnnnnggg discussion as to who was going to be elected and who was doing what with the publications etc etc - I gather this was the norm rather than the exception. I'll leave you to decide which group acted in what way and which was better, naturally drawing a comparsion to the degree that it can be made, with the situation here.

At the end of the day, the question must be asked: why.

If it be for force of numbers, Joe Blow Carbon Fibre hood land can be coerced into treating an order seriously by either a letterhead of an organisation or a person standing there waving money saying "50 orders here....what can you do before I go to the next place". Ditto when dealing with anyone else

If it be for newsletters, one would have to consider the content of the newsletters etc and the degree to which it would be better, for lack of a better word, that the enviroment and information contained therein that exists at the moment. I say this since we have here a tremendous wealth of knowledge that I think would merely be repeition if in newsletter form.

Jamsvx

PS: sorry about the length!

[Jamsvx]

oops... I forgot one thing.

On the issue of copyright, most of us here are breaching it left right and centre (unauthorised use of images, names, slogans) and especially those naughty people scanning in the images onto their websites (hmm...who put that stuff there on www.geocities.com/jamsvx)

If the club goes ahead, you can eliminate ANY chance of this continuing to occur combined with bye-bye to logo'ed T-shirts, umbrella's, mugs, pyjama's keyrings or the like unless we get the permission of Subaru - who may chose not to grant it.

At the moment, our defence is that we are fans and there is no profit or money involved. Make it a club and we expose ourselves to litigation - plain and simple.

As such, the issue will be what exactly is the overall benefit of the move to a more formalised arrangement.

When we can agree on that, then the path to be taken will become evident.

Jamsvx

[Aredubjay]

Yes, eddy had salient points and yours are also. We take a dim view of people taking off with funds also, that's why Bill suggested, and I concur, that we will insist that the treasurer be bonded.

I've also been a member of stuffed shirt, full of themselves, what are we doing with the newsletter "social climbers" and this AIN'T gonna be one of those, or I AIN'T gonna be involved. Having been to every large meet since I owned my car, actually helping to spur on the first one, believe me, I know what meets should be. They should be fun and open to all, and they should not be BUSINESS meetings. That should be taken care of outside meet venues.

As far as value, value is a "relative term." I've paid membership to clubs from which I get a windshield sticker (25.00 as a matter of fact) and nothing more. Just a window sticker. And I don't put stickers on my cars. So, I've wasted my money. But still, I give yearly -- the cause is just. I can gain different color stickers for different levels of "membership", but, it's still just a sticker.

We could toss this about, pro and con, forever. The thread was begun to gather concensus or non- concensus. Do we want to organize, or do we not -- that is the question. Perhaps it should be put in the form of a poll.

I, personally think it would be good to organize (I didn't feel this way when it was first brought up several months ago on the Yahoo board, but, now, I can see the value in it). It's fine to disagree -- that's why we're here. Let's have further discussion, but, we probably need to put a time limit on it, so we don't burn up too much bandwidth.

Nevertheless, once the discussion has ended, I think those who would be willing to work toward formal organization should withdraw to a private forum for further discussion, and, hopefully, emerge with an organizational structure and vehicle that everyone can "live" with.

[tat2skullz]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jamsvx
oops... I forgot one thing.

If the club goes ahead, you can eliminate ANY chance of this continuing to occur combined with bye-bye to logo'ed T-shirts, umbrella's, mugs, pyjama's keyrings or the like unless we get the permission of Subaru - who may chose not to grant it.

At the moment, our defence is that we are fans and there is no profit or money involved. Make it a club and we expose ourselves to litigation - plain and simple.

As such, the issue will be what exactly is the overall benefit of the move to a more formalised arrangement.

When we can agree on that, then the path to be taken will become evident.


Thought I might chime in for a moment......

While it is legaly possible that a formailized club "could" be held liable for copyright infringement, I have to say it is highly unlikely. Especially in the case of a car that is not even produced anymore.

If this were a problem for car companies (free advertising) I'd have to think that Honda or Toyota or Volkswagon would have already made a stink. I don't think that Honda is producing all the SiR stickers found on many rice cars.

Heck, check this out http://www.edecals.com is a business, that sells all sorts of decals of manufacturer names, in all sorts of styles, and not a hint of a copyright logo. And this is a business..... If it were 100% legal, I'm sure that all of the different designs, spacing and fonts used would have has to be approved by the manufacturer... I doubt it, and I don't see this company going out of business anytime soon (the other car club I'm a memeber of just ordered 3000 stickers that say Toyota Tacoma, and a custom design at that!).

Some of these guys in the Tacoma Club have had custom TRD (Toyota Racing Development) stickers made, the size of the entire tailgate, and not once have I heard of a problem stemming from copyright infringement. And we're talking a club with 100 members in NJ alone, and a few thousand nation wide!

Just my .02

Seth

ps... the reason I haven't mentioned the Tacoma Club as one to possibly contact or emulate, is the shear size and setup wouldn't come close to that of the SVX community. I must say, it is very structured, with a National President, regional and state presidents and vp's. It's also fairly strict, in it's fashion of setting up meets and attending runs.... A run must be approved by and attended by a State president, in order for it to be "club sanctioned". So, I don't think it's policies would work at all for the SVX network.

[svxter]

Eddycat

My mention of resumes was for this reason: If you're going to have people serving as officers in some sort of formal organization, I feel it is reasonable to have some statement of their background, experience, and perhaps their vision of what they would seek to accomplish as the holder of that office. This may not be of much importance for a local group that can interact with each other on a daily basis. It may not be of great importance for this group, at this time. But, if I may be allowed to indulge in a bit of fantasy, I would like to dream of any organization that we might create, as having a couple of thousand members at some point. Now how do you get some sense of who you might be putting in charge? All meet in a chat room every Friday night? I belong to several organizations that routinely send out a flyer with resumes of candidates for office, along with a ballot to vote for same. It just seems a reasonable way to get some handle on who you're voting for, that's all. Perhaps I should have been more explicit.

I'm quite curious as to what seems to have given you the notion that this forum would suddenly become a members-only sort of thing? I think it would be reasonable for a certain part of any membership dues to go to supporting this forum, if that were the will of the organization. We're depending upon the goodwill and personal pocket book of Chris, and a few others, at the moment. But that doesn't imply that it would suddenly become an exclusive facility. For one thing, that would be counter-productive, since this would be the best way any such club would have of attracting new members, for one thing.

Maybe, as has been suggested, there's a fundamental question to be resolved. Do we want an official, structured club at all? If so, what would it be like, and what would it do? Would it be a full-featured organization that would organize events, lobby manufacturers, etc.? Would it just be for the purposes of supporting this bulletin board? It was my understanding that we were working toward the former. But that may just be my delusion, so I'll shut up and see where the question comes to rest.

[Aredubjay]

<<If it be for force of numbers, Joe Blow Carbon Fibre hood land can be coerced into treating an order seriously by either a letterhead of an organisation or a person standing there waving money saying "50 orders here....what can you do before I go to the next place". Ditto when dealing with anyone else >>

Just as one more sidebar. The reason I brought up the carbon fiber issue is this: Several of our "Joe Blow" owners have waved their preverbial monies -- not only waved it, but paid it. Now, they're having difficulty receiving their goods. A call or letter from the head of an organization (as a precursor to a call from an attorney), might get the mill running a little quicker. It was just a thought.

[svxxx26]

<<Maybe, as has been suggested, there's a fundamental question to be resolved. Do we want an official, structured club at all? If so, what would it be like, and what would it do? Would it be a full-featured organization that would organize events, lobby manufacturers, etc.? Would it just be for the purposes of supporting this bulletin board? It was my understanding that we were working toward the former. But that may just be my delusion, so I'll shut up and see where the question comes to rest.>>

Well, those are good questions - and ones that must be answered before we go further, I suppose.
These forums are great as is: We can find out information we need, plan and hold meets around the country, get off-topic on other interesting issues, etc.
Thing is, as good as it is - it could be a LOT better with just a little more coordination that an organized club could provide. Meets could be scheduled so as not to conflict with another. Members wanting to hold a meet could get a little help with planning or locating goodies to hand out.
On the technical side, information could be pooled and made available to members, such as was done with the R&T Guide. Can you imagine being able to access a SVX Service Manual on a CD or online? True, such things CAN be done by individuals, but it usually costs somebody somewhere along the line. Perhaps we could have volunteer Subaru techs available to ask questions. BMWCCA has BMW techs listed that you can actually call on the phone during certain listed hours/days.
As I have mentioned earlier, as the years go by and Subaru support/parts dwindle, what then? I don't think that a message board alone will be enough. A dedicated liason with FHI could mean the difference between getting a actual Subaru part or trying to fabricate something. If that doesn't concern you now, just go visit the CF hood thread.
One more thing - there have been comments made that characterize this movement as being exclusionary in nature. I don't see that at all, in fact it's quite the opposite. This forum will be free of charge, as it is now. On the other hand, members that pay $25 or whatever should expect to get something for that money, and the ones that choose not to shouldn't.

[svxcess]

Since my taillight panel says it, as does my vanity plate, I was in search of the proper pronunciation of that 7 letter word. I can now rest easier as I have received the results of my many inquiries, including the Haydn Planetarium and the New York Public Library. The proper pronunciation of ALCYONE overwhelmingly seems to be el-SIGH uh-nee

Now back to your regularly scheduled program...

[Aredubjay]

Just a quick question. I know some of the members here are also members of SCOA. Would any of you care to share with us how much you paid in dues, and what, thus far, you've received as a result of your membership?

[svxxx26]

<<Just a quick question. I know some of the members here are also members of SCOA. Would any of you care to share with us how much you paid in dues, and what, thus far, you've received as a result of your membership?>>

First year dues: $20.00, subsequent years are $15.00.

So far, I've got a inside decal and one newsletter.
Now I'm sure there are probably more club benefits . . . I think :rolleyes:

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by svxxx26
<<Just a quick question. I know some of the members here are also members of SCOA. Would any of you care to share with us how much you paid in dues, and what, thus far, you've received as a result of your membership?>>

First year dues: $20.00, subsequent years are $15.00.

So far, I've got a inside decal and one newsletter.
Now I'm sure there are probably more club benefits . . . I think :rolleyes:


And you've been a member for, how long? Okay, I believe that, in the newsletter, there is a list of "SCOA Friendly" vendors and such, right? And a schedule of activities, etc. And, how many members? Just wondering. I guess I could contact Garry Grimes. He would probably give me the whole skinny.

[Jamsvx]

On the issue of copyright, The reason I brought up the carbon fiber issue is this: Several of our "Joe Blow" owners have waved their preverbial monies -- not only waved it, but paid it. Now, they're having difficulty receiving their goods. A call or letter from the head of an organization (as a precursor to a call from an attorney), might get the mill running a little quicker. It was just a thought.

I used the example of the hoods merely as the first thing that came into my head that would have to be custom made for the SVX....I see your point and agree totally, however in the long run, I would imagine that the issue of maintaining the cars as the parts become scarcer will become more of a priority than 'optional accessories' be they hoods, lights, scoops or the like!! My point was that with regards coercive force, is the force increased to such a degree by a move to a more formalised organisation to, in combination with the other factors, an outweighing of the existing situation.

With regards copyright, one does not have to exercise one's rights, one can choose to - or not, as the case may be. I suppose as a counter to the examples you cited, takes Jurgeens (???spelling) experience with his SVX website in Germany and as for cars no longer made, McLaren shut down el pronto a site that appeared to be, with the amount of info it contained, F1 central (being the road car). *I can't remember the address...I will try and find it if people need proof!:D " It has to be considered that the possibility of action being taken by FHI or SOA will increase - whether they do it is up to them but who wants to run the risk of our sites being reduced to mere shells as we remove anything that could bring attorneys knocking at our door!our door.

I stuufed up with the 'bold' function and couldn't undo it -- sorry!

Jamsvx

[tat2skullz]

quote: It has to be considered that the possibility of action being taken by FHI or SOA will increase - whether they do it is up to them but who wants to run the risk of our sites being reduced to mere shells as we remove anything that could bring attorneys knocking at our door!

I admit to not knowing all of the legalities of it, but, what if the club were to become an official organization, with a bonded treasurer and bank account? I would imagine the bank account would not carry a hefty balance. So, if FHI or SOA were to invest the time, resources, and money it would take to "shut it down", what would they get? So, we "turn it off", and maybe they clean out the organizations bank account.... no personal loss. I say we take our chances, and if it comes down to it, it's gonna hurt Subaru's public reputation to tkae down a club that supports one or more of their products.

We're (Club memebers and owners) are already there, as far as infringement goes.... look at the network logos, and the replica models John has had made.... and if it were that big of a deal, I think SOA or FHI would go after the business that actually created the model, or stickers, remeber, there is money to be had there, not here. If the stickers and models and whatever else were to become "club sanctioned" then, at least SOA would only have the club to go after, and no one would be held personaly responsible... it may afford some protection to our members that graciously devote time energey and $$$ into getting these projects off the ground. I guess I'd make the analogy to a business that incorporates, so that only the business is liable, and not the owner's personal finances or properties.

Sorry to ramble on, but I really enjoy this discussion, and hope to see what other people's reactions and thoughts are. This is such a positive idea, and hopefully we can weed out most of the negatives.....

Seth

[**92SVX**]

??????

[Aredubjay]

Seth, I agree. This is a great discussion. I ask forgiveness for continueing to be devil's advocate, but, it seems to have done what I've wanted it to do: Keep the discussion active and keep it toward the top of the list. There WAS method to my "madness."

The whole copyright issue is going to be a crap shoot. For example, there is a little 30-40 seat restaurant in Philpot, Kentucky. Hardly noticeable, it sits on HWY 54 on the way to Whitesville. The only "crime" committed by its owner was to make it his namesake: McDonalds Restaurant. He had no ambitions of being a chain. He was a local hangout and never dreamt that he was doing anything wrong. But, yes, the big guys came knocking on his door with a cease and desist order. They agreed that if he added his first name to his sign, they would not pursue any legal recourse. So, he did. It is now "Norman McDonald's Restaurant." Now, let's hope the comedian of the same name doesn't get wind of it. :)


<<My point was that with regards coercive force, is the force increased to such a degree by a move to a more formalised organisation to, in combination with the other factors, an outweighing of the existing situation.>>

I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're saying here James. Although I think "coercive force" is a bit strong (it may be right, but it's strong :) ) Perhaps you'll expound?

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by tat2skullz
quote: It has to be considered that the possibility of action being taken by FHI or SOA will increase - whether they do it is up to them but who wants to run the risk of our sites being reduced to mere shells as we remove anything that could bring attorneys knocking at our door!

I admit to not knowing all of the legalities of it, but, what if the club were to become an official organization, with a bonded treasurer and bank account? I would imagine the bank account would not carry a hefty balance.

Sorry to ramble on, but I really enjoy this discussion, and hope to see what other people's reactions and thoughts are. This is such a positive idea, and hopefully we can weed out most of the negatives.....

Seth

Seth,
I agree with the thrust of what you are saying. Subaru spend millions on a rallying campaign to build and strengthen their brand image. Why would they spend a red cent trying to strongarm a small group of loyal supporters and fans and dumba$$ mechanics??

James is being the devil's advocate, fools rush in and all that, so it is wise to check out these issues and if possible ensure FHI or other parties understand that unwitting infringement is not for personal or corporate gain.

If the club and the treasurer are incorporated and bonded, and it is made clear to all in the club manifesto that it is a not-for-profit organisation, then corporate lawyers will see neither a threat nor a bonanza to be sued for.

Joe

[Jamsvx]

*image of a smilely face with horns!!!*



James is being the devil's advocate, fools rush in and all that, so it is wise to check out these issues and if possible ensure FHI or other parties understand that unwitting infringement is not for personal or corporate gain.

Very true. Forgive me if any thinks I am the eternal pessimist but in my line of work, it pays to think "worst case scenario" - it allows a more rapid and effective, not to mention preconsidered, response if the scenario eventuates!!!

On the issue of copyright, I agree that stickers and logos are being used left right and centre but it is more of a 'backyard' effort (from an outsiders perspective) than a "dedicated" enterprise. If such activities, and indeed, use of images, falls within the ambit of a dedicated endeavour, such as a national/global organisation, thence SOA and FHI may very well respond by treating such copyright infringements in a serious manner mirroring the very intentions that underlay the formation of the organisation in the beginning - ie, to have unity, coercive force of members etc etc....ie: up till now we can plead "we're only a bunch of fans who love a car that no one else does"...Move to the next level and our ability to claim that falls away: if one demand to be treated seriously in the eyes of others eg SOA, then expect to be treated in a reciprocally equal manner - a plus for transmissions and bearings, a no-no for just about every one of our PC's contents!!!

Jamsvx

Not tyring to throw a spanner in the works, just trying to work backwards to a solution!

[eddycat2000]

Originally posted by svxistentialist


I agree with the thrust of what you are saying. Subaru spend millions on a rallying campaign to build and strengthen their brand image. Why would they spend a red cent trying to strongarm a small group of loyal supporters and fans and dumba$$ mechanics??


Joe

Well, case in point, there was a local shop here that was started by a group of toyota master techs. They opened and operated the shop under the name "Toyota Masters". As soon as toyota heard about it, you guessed it, the name is now "The Dealer Alternative". Now the dumba$$ mechanics could have formed a little group to fix friend & families cars, for no profit and not had a problem. But as soon as they started taking money...change the name or legal action.

[Aredubjay]

<<Not tyring to throw a spanner in the works, just trying to work backwards to a solution!>>


That would be a "monkey spanner" here in the colonies, James :D. Seriously, your pessimism is very much needed to call us zealots to take notice.

I still think we should go forward and wait for the "cease and desist." We can always change our logo if needs be. Our emphasis, of course, will be toward "not for profit" and not "enterprise" and hope for the best. BTW, what is your line of work?

[tat2skullz]

quote: Very true. Forgive me if any thinks I am the eternal pessimist but in my line of work, it pays to think "worst case scenario" - it allows a more rapid and effective, not to mention preconsidered, response if the scenario eventuates!!!

HAHA! No need to ask for forgivness (I don't thik, at least). Everyone's thoughts, comments and experiences are a valuable asset to the group!

I would imagine (and hope) that if this organization were obvious about being a not for profit group, it would ruffle no feathers. I would agree that if we were somehow making any money for personal gain using someone else's branding that we would then be (and should be) accountable and liable.

The funny part is, SOA and FHI created a financial loser when they developed and produced the SVX. So, if they barely escaped this money pit, I don't see how a small group (relatively speaking) of enthusiasts could possibly take the ba$tard child of Subaru and turn a profit:eek: ! If we did, SOA better damn well hire us...:D !

Seth

:edited for spelling and grammar.... hope I got them all, Aredub ;)

[Aredubjay]

<<:edited for spelling and grammar.... hope I got them all, Aredub>>


Excellent! The "spell check" feature of this board is one of its most wonderful attributes. Albiet one we (yes, I said, we, as in, me) fail to use as often as we should. :)

[Jamsvx]

Well, Jamsvx must apoligize fur eny speling misstaces that he made sinince he did not c the funkchun for speling korectchun!!


I was thinking that SOA would be hopping mad that we are so dedicated and doing, for free, what their well-paid spin-doctors could not accomplish - actually getting the merits of the SVX to become evident and as such, more popular. I vote that SOA (and S of Oz for me!) appoint us all designers of the SVX replacement.....although :D if the keyring and site design forums are anything to go by, 3 years later we will be still debating whether an SVX needs a retractable hardtop whilst retaining the windows, an 800hp quad turbo flat 12 (apparently they did do a prototype of a flat 12 - I have a picture in a non-car magazine somewhere in my room) 6 speed manual or sequential and glass or plastic headlight covers.:D *joking of course*

Does anyone remember the 'Homer' car from the Simpsons!!!


More seriously, in a nutshell what I was saying re: the club was whether our collection of fanatics, all contributing for free (eg advice or in my case, paying for items so as to display them freely!) and all feeling quite equal and having that warm fuzzy feeling of community, would benefit from a move to a more formalised structure with a hierarchy of position and bringing with it the attention of SOA and any other entity that, for whatever reason, wanted to make our lives difficult. I kinda like the 'rebel/fan of unknown outcast car' that we have here!!!

If this is compared to eddycats example:

Well, case in point, there was a local shop here that was started by a group of toyota master techs. They opened and operated the shop under the name "Toyota Masters". As soon as toyota heard about it, you guessed it, the name is now "The Dealer Alternative". Now the dumba$$ mechanics could have formed a little group to fix friend & families cars, for no profit and not had a problem. But as soon as they started taking money...change the name or legal action

then we have to think about the possible results, remote as they may seem. And if we charge money, then money changes hands - plain and simple. And since it would centre around the SVX, SOA would, I imagine and quite reasonably from an outsiders view, jump up and down that money is being traded on the focus of a group with such focus, the SVX, being Subaru's property.

As for what I do, lets just say I have seen this happen all too often......mechanics, fast food outlets, start-up companies.....all to have big business employ tactics to shut them down - end game.

Jamsvx

[go2svx]

I like "SVX World Network" as well. I just gave up my membership in the Quattro Club, so it is nice to see an SVX club being formed. The dues for the Quattro club were $40.00 per year. They published a high quality magazine each quarter, and organized driving schools at race local race tracks.

I would love to see us all us East-coasters take the SVX's to Summit Point for some performance driving tips. If enough of us are interested, we could have our own day with only SVX's like the Quattro Club, the BMW club and the Porsche Club all do. It is not very expensive really. Anyone interested?

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by go2svx
I like "SVX World Network" as well. I just gave up my membership in the Quattro Club, so it is nice to see an SVX club being formed. The dues for the Quattro club were $40.00 per year. They published a high quality magazine each quarter, and organized driving schools at race local race tracks.

I would love to see us all us East-coasters take the SVX's to Summit Point for some performance driving tips. If enough of us are interested, we could have our own day with only SVX's like the Quattro Club, the BMW club and the Porsche Club all do. It is not very expensive really. Anyone interested?

One of our fellow SVXers is already racing at Summit Point. He runs an AWD and his son runs an FWD. You'll need to hook up with him. His name is Harry Newman and he and his son Autocross their SVXes up and down the east coast.

So, did the Quattro club make up their own "stuff" and use the Audi logo and on and on? And did Audi, at any time, try to shut you down? I mean, money did change hands. :p ->->-> :D

[Jamsvx]

Ha ha!!! I just cannot stop myself laughing!!!! ;)

Prevention better than the cure is all I have to say!!!!:D

Jamsvx

[newsvx]

Randy,
Count me in. I'll spend some time going through the threads and try to catch up.
Harry

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by newsvx
Randy,
Count me in. I'll spend some time going through the threads and try to catch up.
Harry

Harry, great! Keep us posted on how your racing season goes. We may have to add a new section for all you Autocrossers and Dragsters to post your results. Sith, oh Sith . . . :D

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by Jamsvx
Ha ha!!! I just cannot stop myself laughing!!!! ;)

Prevention better than the cure is all I have to say!!!!:D

Jamsvx

James, I couldn't help myself. I was laughing the whole time I was writing it. I was saying to myself, "damn, I sound like Perry Mason!" I thought you'd enjoy it. :D

Meanwhile, go2svx, where were you on the night of the 17th? Oh, sorry, wrong question. :D In order to help us understand further the "value for dues" issue, what, besides the magazine did you get for your 40.00 membership, and, did you feel you were getting "value" for being a member? If so, what did you feel was the "value" of membership. (I know it's hard to believe, folks, but I'm being serioius in asking these questions -- anyone else who's been the member of a similar club, please feel free to answer the questions also and give your input --- point being, if no one from other clubs sees "value" in membership, we may as well shut this thread down now.)

[go2svx]

Well first off the magazine was of excellent quality, but it would not need to be as many pages for an SVX club. There were lots of Ads from dealers for parts discounts for members. Articles about the different events held by the club with pictures of those who attended and many of their cars. Also coordination and registration of events and driving schools for those on each coast or region. This resulted in discounts for driving schools that normally would be more expensive. As well, it allowed the schools to be "only" Audi cars. It would be nice to have a day at the track (not real racing, just against the clock) each year just for SVX's. The strength of numbers is needed. I felt that I received my money's worth from it, and I never really had the Audi long enough to benefit as much as possible, since I came back to an SVX after only one year. I for one would pay the price gladly

ps - The magazine provides a more "collectable" form of keeping the club history as well:)

[go2svx]

Aredubjay

No Audi supported the whole idea. It is nothing but good publicitiy for them. As long as the club is not trying to make a profit off of the name Subaru, I would expect that they would be glad to see an SVX club as well as a WRX club. Money may change hands but nothing is being sold under the guise of making a profit by associating with the Subaru name.

What I have seen before as well is where a special car has it's own club as independent but directly linked to the larger organization of the national club for the manufacturer of the car. IE: have the SVX club, be a sub-division of a the Subaru Club. (Funny thing is, I don't even know if there is a Subaru Club in the U.S.) Just an idea.

[Aredubjay]

Thanks go2, that's some good info (especially that you came back to the SVX after an Audi :D )

Yes, there is quite an active Subaru Club. It is all-inclusive and everyone with a Subaru is welcomed to join. Dues are reasonable (20.00 first year 15.00 for each year thereafter). I don't think they do a split on models. But, they do have regional chapters.

I, personally, would like an exclusive SVX club, independent of all others. Call me a "freak." I've said it all along, I'm an SVX fan, not a Subaru fan (and that's not to "put down" anyone with any other kind of Subaru -- let me make that perfectly clear).

The "collectibility" of the printed piece as a history of the organization is a good point. Hopefully we can get something off the ground soon.

[go2svx]

Glad to help.

Just to clairfy, my suggestion. It was not to have the SVX owners be part of the Subaru Club per se. Rather the SVX club would be a wholly independent club, but attached to the larger club to lessen expenses, like for a dedicated club web page, etc. A good example that I can think of is the "Reatta" Club. It is a two seater Buick from 88-91. They have their own club, with a dedicated web site including thier own message board software. Yet it is a sub-division of the Buick Owners Club. It allows more efficient use of resources, since with few cars, there are less dollars to be pooled by the members. Those who have other Subaru cars can use the same member name and same server, just different web page for access to the bigger club. Those who only want SVX info, can bookmark directly to the sub-site for the SVX club in their browser.

Anyways, just one suggestion. I am open to whatever the majority wants, especially those who have helped create the environments and sites we use now. They deserve the most influence in my opinion. People like you, and SVXIT, and others.

[Aredubjay]

Hmmmmm, the Reatta club. There's one we hadn't thought of tapping for information. So far, Bill Moore has contacted the DeLorean Club and the Avanti club for information -- without reply. My former business partner's cousin was one of the engineers who worked on the Reatta (don't worry, he wasn't proud of it either, after he saw how they screwed it up between design and production). Might have to give 'em a shout. Thanks again.

[svxistentialist]

"No Audi supported the whole idea. It is nothing but good publicitiy for them. As long as the club is not trying to make a profit off of the name Subaru, I would expect that they would be glad to see an SVX club as well as a WRX club. Money may change hands but nothing is being sold under the guise of making a profit by associating with the Subaru name. "
Posted by go2

Made this point already, good to see it worked in the Quattro Club.

For this reason, we should be going ahead, but not looking to incite a "cease and desist" situation. I prefer James' approach of working backwards to a solution.

Next move is to set up the steering committee, whose primary function will be to draw up the constitution of the club. You can call this the portfolio or the articles or constitution or whatever is correct colloquially. When this document is drawn up[and agreed of course], it will be obvious to interested parties the club is "not for profit"

The club will actually be acting as an unpaid marketing device for Subaru, and it's dealers re parts. It would be prudent to make Subaru & Fuji aware of this, and not unreasonable to ask for an endorsement, possibly even financial support in lieu of advertising at club events etc. You don't ask, you don't get.

Steering committee does not need a world wide vote to set up. Remember Florida?? Just do it.

Joe:D

[LarryIII]

Randy,

As a former NYC boy who has Sicilian relatives in Brooklyn, I'm all for a formal SVX club or network. We could call it "La Casa SVX Nostra" or "Our SVX House". I suggest that we make all SVXers an offer that they can't refuse. As for dues, I have some acquaintances that are very good at collections and their fees are quite modest when compared to government fees and taxes. In order to cement the deal we may have to "donate" an SVX to a charitable organization such as the Mothers And Fathers Italian Association which helps needy families in the NYC and northern NJ area.. I recommend a black one of course.
These are just a few rambling thoughts and my 2 cents.

Larry III:cool:

[satanta]

The justification for yearly dues as opposed to a 'free-forum' could be special areas on the web site 'for members only' which could contain discount information, etc.

Use the public area to peak interest in joining.

$25 a year isn't bad at all.

[Aredubjay]

<<Next move is to set up the steering committee, whose primary function will be to draw up the constitution of the club. You can call this the portfolio or the articles or constitution or whatever is correct colloquially. When this document is drawn up[and agreed of course], it will be obvious to interested parties the club is "not for profit">>

Joe, did you come in late on the constitution thread? A constitution was drafted and posted for all to see/approve, as well as a mission statement/statement of purpose.


http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42


http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=1732

Please check them out and see if both documents meet your approval. Bill Moore has been generous in providing his expertise in these matters. I haven't seen him lately. I'm sure that he's wrapped up in closing out the school year at Marshall University right now. As author of constitution and mission statement, I think he'd be an important part of the steering committee, so, we'll probably wait for him to be able to join in before we proceed.

Likewise, anyone else who hasn't seen these documents is welcome to offer input. It will be YOUR network.

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by satanta
The justification for yearly dues as opposed to a 'free-forum' could be special areas on the web site 'for members only' which could contain discount information, etc.

Use the public area to peak interest in joining.

$25 a year isn't bad at all.

Jack, good point. I had an offer from one of our web programmers here to develop a specific website. As a for profit multi-media production company, I felt that it was a generous offer on my co-worker's part to offer to do it gratis. He seemed to be caught up in my "zeal" for this Network. He has the abilities and capabilities to do just about anything with the Web, including creating a registration database, etc. I'm going to tap him for his talents, once we get things finalized. By the way, Jack, welcome aboard. Make yourself at home and enjoy the benefits of the combined knowledge, and sometimes, insanity, that you'll discover here.

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by Aredubjay
http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42[/url]


http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=1732

Please check them out and see if both documents meet your approval. Bill Moore has been generous in providing his expertise in these matters. As author of constitution and mission statement, I think he'd be an important part of the steering committee, so, we'll probably wait for him to be able to join in before we proceed.

Likewise, anyone else who hasn't seen these documents is welcome to offer input. It will be YOUR network.

Randy,
thanks, yes I did miss these. Had a quick look at the constitution and on quick glance it looks OK. Have not read everything in depth, but I will[Notepad sends half the document to Eastern Europe]
On first glance, it is primarily a club framework for administration. This is OK, but I see no provision for circumstances where membership might be lost or denied.

Also, mission statement. Is this elsewhere?? I did not see it. It needs to be spelled out in black and white that the club is not for profit. To this end, we need to set up an external auditor to check the books yearly and confirm all is well. Also, it should be a club rule that any member using club facilities for gain or profit contravenes club rules. This would keep us kosher with Subaru, and should be strictly implemented as a policy.[See paragraph one]

I assume Bill Moore is SVXter? Good work, this sort of outlay is wearying and difficult to get everything covered, and yet leave some areas open enough not to create restriction or liability. Hope I am not rehashing areas covered and finished in the past.

Joe

[Aredubjay]

<<Hope I am not rehashing areas covered and finished in the past.>>

Not at all. Thank you.

Hmmm. I tried to pull up the mission statement and it went all "wiggy" on me. Pehaps, when Bill returns, he can paste it into an e-mail for you.

An independent audit, I agree, is a must. I would imagine a quarterly financial statement would be included in the newsletter, as well as year end audit/annual report, until such time they could become separate documents.

[svxxx26]

. . . and it sure was buried deep! :rolleyes:

So what do you guys think??? Is this a dead issue or is it just on vacation? :confused:

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by svxxx26
. . . and it sure was buried deep! :rolleyes:

So what do you guys think??? Is this a dead issue or is it just on vacation? :confused:

Nice digging Jerry!

I've been wondering also. I was presuming a committee would come back with a master plan, and ask us to vote, preferably not in Florida.

Also, if the financial side of things can be set up in a neat, transparent and auditable fashion, we can all chip in our 10c worth or $20 worth as decided, and use some to support the guys providing this fun forum.

What's happening?? Send an SOS for Bill.

Joe

[Ron Mummert]

I suggest a 4 wheel steering commitee. tsu.

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by Ron Mummert
I suggest a 4 wheel steering commitee. tsu.

Now we have one boy digging it up and one boy stirring it up.

I'm lapping it up.

Keep it up!

Joe:D

[eddycat2000]

Originally posted by svxistentialist


Now we have one boy digging it up and one boy stirring it up.

I'm lapping it up.

Keep it up!

Joe:D

I really wish you guy's would refrain from picking on our high grand exalted poobah!:D I hear that Road and Track magazine was so impressed with the subscription rates in Ken-tuck-ee that they gave them a special award...It was presented by Mr. I. B. Gullible.:D :D :D

[svxxx26]

<<I really wish you guy's would refrain from picking on our high grand exalted poobah! I hear that Road and Track magazine was so impressed with the subscription rates in Ken-tuck-ee that they gave them a special award>>


What was it, the "Golden Tater"? (mounted on a zebrawood base of course):eek:

[eddycat2000]

Originally posted by svxxx26

What was it, the "Golden Tater"? (mounted on a zebrawood base of course):eek:

Absolutely not, you must have missed it on the teevee! They awarded a golden tooth to Ken-tuck-ee, one of the few rare items there. Once a month the tooth goes to another county and the proud recipient gets to wear it and perhaps if he/she likes corn, bite on that there cob o' corn. The unfortunate thing is that the gold tooth is made of a somewhat soft gold, 14 carat or less, so that the tooth will wear down way too fast for the families there to all be able to use it.

On a side note, you really don't need a tooth to eat Spam. I can't prove it and I'm not sure if Road and Track can verify it, but I *think* that Spam was invented for Ken-tuck-ee residents. What I may do with all my spare time is to drive my AWS SVX down to the "Liberry" and research the claim.:D

Laff, I thought I'd die!:D