Alternator died!

[b3lha]

We've been hearing a loud rattling noise for the past few days. I took a look under the bonnet, but couldn't decide whether it was coming from the steering pump or the alternator.

But then last night, coming home after a night out, the dashboard lit up like a christmas tree when we were about 50 yards from home. The Tranny-Temp, 4WS, ABS, Alternator and Steering lights came on.

I remembered reading elsewhere on this site that christmas tree lights = toasted alternator, so I tested it this morning. The dash lights didn't come on, but the AVO only showed 9 volts output.

So I called up the local Subaru dealer and they quoted FIVE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY POUNDS PLUS VAT for a new alternator. I asked whether it was gold plated and he said no.

But we found a place in Slough that does recon units on an exchange basis and they claim to have one on the shelf for £92. So I'm going there at lunch time to take a look at it - I really hope it's the right type.

I need to fix it today or tomorrow because it's booked in to have the A/C regassed (swapping the R12 for Isceon-49) on Thursday and then we're going to Devon/Cornwall for the weekend.

P&B

[svxistentialist]

Hi Phil,

You should have no bother getting it fixed. I had mine done when I got the car nearly three years ago. Everything lit up, I got a real fright, but the cure was simple.

I drove it to the reconditioners, a place in Naas, about 15 miles away. Collected the next day, if memory serves me right, he charged about 90 Punts, probably 70 Sterling for the fix. They have no trouble fixing them, the alternator is common. I think it is also used in a few other applications, Nissan Pathfinders or some such. Easy to rewind, and replace the bearings in any case.

One thing you might consider if you go for a rewind, as opposed to an off-the-shelf swap. Some of the guys in the States, [maybe Huck??] had theirs rewound to a better amperage. Run a search, you should find it.

Best of luck, hope you get sorted for the weekend.

Joe:)

[b3lha]

Thanks for the kind words of support Joe!

Belha said to me this morning that she didn't believe that anybody would have an SVX alternator on the shelf. I said that it was probably a common type used in several vehicles. Guess what...

I went along there at lunch time and showed them the alternator. The guy said that when we were on the phone, he thought I was talking about a Toyota Supra! :rolleyes: They didn't have anything even remotely like it on the shelf.

We agreed that he should recon our alternator, it should be ready tomorrow morning. (and for some reason the price has gone up by 20 quid!)

I remember reading about having the amperage increased, but I've never suffered any shortage of power with the standard one - until yesterday!

P&B

[svxistentialist]

Same here Phil

Never needed any extra power. Even with everything on, my system seems to give loads of power. If you had installed an aftermarket power amp or such, things might be different.

The only thing I have ever pined for is better light output. I have not done the alternator earth strap upgrade which supposedly gives better voltage all round, and is noticable in the bulbs' output. Have you done this? I am also scared of putting higher powered bulbs in with the stupid plastic lenses. They brown up so easily with the standard bulbs, I am loath to do something which might create extra heat and oxidation internally in the unit.

Your price is still good IMO. Make sure they put in two new bearings. If they don't, and one seizes or collapses, it will undo your new rewind.

Joe:)

[b3lha]

Hi Joe,

I tried that earth strap mod once - I couldn't detect any difference in voltage or light output so I removed it after a few weeks. Either some SVX's have an inferior loom, or the people who do this mod are kidding themselves about it's effectiveness.

Phil.

[svxistentialist]

Yours and mine are both Japanese spec. Possibly the US spec has either higher resistance in the looms[which are certainly different], or possibly a different rating alternator, or maybe a combination of both. If it did show an improvement in voltage of say 2-3 volts while all devices were on, then it would be worthwhile.

Might try it for pigiron.

Any advice on stronger light output bulbs without going up in power rating??

Joe:)

[Phast SVX]

Originally posted by svxistentialist
Yours and mine are both Japanese spec. Possibly the US spec has either higher resistance in the looms[which are certainly different], or possibly a different rating alternator, or maybe a combination of both. If it did show an improvement in voltage of say 2-3 volts while all devices were on, then it would be worthwhile.

Might try it for pigiron.

Any advice on stronger light output bulbs without going up in power rating??

Joe:)
You cna go with pia's, or an true HID ballset/bulb set that offers 60% or more light using only 35 watts. PIAA platinum bulbs which are only 70 bux use only 51 watts
phil

[svxistentialist]

Thanks Phil, I will check these out.

Sounds expensive though. Is it 70 bucks a pair? Most bulbs here range from 10 to 15 dollars each.

Joe:)

[b3lha]

I remember reading on one of the SVX sites (yahoo?) a long time ago about some headlight bulbs which were essentially a cluster of super-bright LED's.

Supposedly they give out lots of light and practially no heat. It sounded wonderful *in theory*.

I picked up the alternator and it's nice and shiny looking - I just hope it works. The guy said that after checking his catalogue he could have sold us a brand new one for 145+VAT, which makes the Subaru dealer look rather expensive.

[b3lha]

Alternator fitted and working great! I just hope the A/C repair tomorrow goes as smoothly.

P&B

[svxistentialist]

Good news Phil.

With the alternator done, it will keep Phil the Driver :cool:

Now just fix the aircon, and keep Belha cool as well! No sweat!

I got mine recharged a couple of weeks ago, and it is bliss for this heavy humid weather. You don't realise how good the interior is until you step out at times, and start to "blossom" immediately.

Enjoy Devon & Cornwall, lucky devils.

Joe:)

[b3lha]

I went to a place in High Wycombe on Thursday morning to have the aircon fixed. The guy said it was only slightly low on gas. But he evacuated the R12 and refilled it with RS25. I got into the car, started it up to test it and sure enough - icy cold air!

Then I stepped out of the car and into a large puddle of steering fluid. :( A hose had split and all the fluid had leaked out. So I called out the AA and told them it would need to be recovered on the back of a lorry. They sent a guy with a van, an hour later, who took one look at it and told me that it would have to be recovered on the back of a lorry :rolleyes:. Another hour passed and the recovery lorry arrived and took me home.

The lorry driver pointed out to me that one of our tyres was coming apart and had steel wires sticking out of it. I knew that all the tyres needed replacing soon, but this was unexpected. The trip to Devon that evening was starting to look unlikely, but I was determined not to be beaten.:mad:

We went to the Slough Trading Estate in the Justy and managed to buy some steering hose, some fluid and a second hand tyre as a temporary replacement. I fitted them and took a short test drive to the petrol station, trailing thick clouds of white smoke as the leaked fluid burnt off the exhaust. A rice-boy at the next pump commented helpfully: "There's smoke coming out from under your car!". :D

We finally left home about 10pm and made it to Devon by 1am, with the "Check Engine" light on the whole way :eek:. I pulled the code the next day and found that the driver's side O2 sensor has an intermittant fault - presumably due to being covered in steering oil. I'll have to try cleaning it.

Then I noticed that the tyre we had bought the day before had gone flat. We took it to a tyre place in Crediton who showed us that it had a nail in the shoulder with a patch badly stuck over it. Apparently it could not be repaired and was too dangerous to be used. We ended up buying four new tyres - as they were offering them at an even better price than we could get on the internet.

So it's was an eventfull and expensive week as far as the SVX is concerned. We're hoping for a little less excitement this week.

Devon and Cornwall was beautiful though, we visited the Eden Project and it was well worth seeing. :)

P&B

[svxistentialist]

Phew!!!!

What a disasterous few days!!!

Hope everything is sorted now.

I had mine on a ramp last week, and noticed the insides of the two back tyres are worn, so I should have been checking tracking and alignment a bit better.

Hard to keep up with everything, but we just keep trying.

Joe

[lee]

Originally posted by svxistentialist
Yours and mine are both Japanese spec. Possibly the US spec has either higher resistance in the looms[which are certainly different], or possibly a different rating alternator, or maybe a combination of both. ...snip...
Joe:)

Joe,

On the North American version's stock wiring loom the minimum expected voltage drop would be about 0.3V from alternator to battery. Changing to 4 gauge (the recommended mod) reduces that to ~0.1V. Admittedly not much, but remember this drop doesn't account for corrosion on connections, etc. which would presumably be less on the bigger wire.

The stock US version uses a wire from alternator to battery of 8 gauge (and maybe even less - just my guess from looking at it), about 5 ft in length, while the alternator is rated at 95 amps. The table I attached was lifted from a solar energy company concerning 12V power distribution. You can see that 6 gauge is the recommended minimum and why 4 gauge (with eventual corrosion impact on conduction) makes sense.

Please note the full mod isn't just for the ground/earthing strap. The OEM system is 4 gauge from battery to engine block (by starter), and 8 gauge from battery to body. The latter is very short (less than 1 foot) and so is probably quite alright as is. The mod is really for the alt - battery leg. AND a correct mod would also employ an added fuse or fusible link rated appropriately to avoid danger from fire in a collision or other damage to the electrical system.

BTW, using European sizes (I have no idea which system the UK is on), 8 gauge=10mm^2, and 4 gauge=25mm^2 (both I believe correct to first decimal point in rounding). If it wasn't obvious, smaller gauge means bigger wire in the US system. :rolleyes:

cheers

[svxistentialist]

Thanks Lee

That is a useful chart. The point is well made in theory, and your observation about corrosion induced resistance is one that the factory engineers do not always allow for.

In past times here, it was common practice for all Fiat owners, and sometimes Renault owners, to put in the next biggest battery size for this very reason.

I would expect the biggest advantage of the heavy wire mod would be in starting, at highest current draw. This would be a most useful benefit for those in cold climes without a pre-heater.

My point about the possible 2-3 volts referred to things like the lights, when aircon fans and stereo and other draws reduced the voltage of the total system below optimum.

Will change the wire to see if it improves things. However, she starts with the turn of a key [original '91 Japanese battery] and I would much prefer to put in glass headlights and go to 100w hi-output bulbs to improve the lights. Not with the silly plastic, however.

Joe:)

[lee]

you're welcome and for what it's worth, I agree with you on the lights. I doubt the wire change will do much if the system is clean, etc. I have done the mod, but that was because I was introducing a couple of audio amplifiers (at full tilt a 60 amp draw is possible for brief periods) and wished to make sure the system could handle the draw.

Perhaps I owe you an apology - I said earlier I didn't know what system the UK was using - if I could just learn to look a little closer at the location......Sorry:o (just another dumb American)

[Trevor]

Greetings Joe/Lee,

Just looked in here in the hope of finding something with shall I say " a little depth to it ".

Lee you are spot on with your comments. As a matter of interest here is an extract from one of my previous posts.

Quote : -

I have made measurements as follows using two high class digital instruments in parallel as a check on accuracy of calibration.

1. Voltage dropped alternator + to battery + . Dead flat battery and all lights and accessories drawing current, engine at 4500 rpm. --- 0.5 volts.

2. As above but with a fully charged battery (measured at 12.6 volts no load), --- 0.4 volts.

3. As 2, but with only engine electrics drawing current. -- 0.2 volts

4. As 1 above, but alternator frame to battery negative --- 0.13 volts

5. As 2 above, but alternator frame to battery negative --- 0.11 volts

6. As 3 above, but alternator frame to battery negative --- 0.08 volts

From the above the total voltage drop in the alternator to battery circuit can be summarized as ---

a, Conditions as 1 above, --- 0.63 volts

b. Conditions as 2 above, --- 0.51 volts

c. Conditions as 3 above, --- o.28 volts

Charging current based on the above can be calculated as follows ---

a. 0.63v / 0,008 = 78 Amps

b. 0.51v / 0,008 = 63 Amps

c. 0.28v / 0.008 = 35 Amps

I regard the above measurements as indicating that the charging system on my car i.e. OEM is working perfectly and this is born out by two trouble free years in my hands plus no indication of any repairs while in the hands of Japanese owners. It goes without saying that I will not be messing with it. If I do have trouble in the future I will be looking for the cause rather than by passing a fault. This is not the way to fix Ò crap connections Ò in the charging system.

There is an advantage in having a small resistance between the alternator and the battery as this can be a form of over current protection for the alternator. What is more any such small voltage drop will not effect the alternator output voltage as the electronic regulator senses battery voltage directly via a separate pilot wire.

My typing is too slow and arduous to explain this in detail but it is in fact illustrated within the above figures. It could be that Subaru designers had this in mind as I can not accept that they were trying to save on a few strands of copper or were ignorant in respect of basic Ohm's law.
------------------------------------------------------------

Joe, note that my measujrements as above confirm those put forward by Lee.

I would say forget the so called " alternator mod " and check for possible resistance in the loom to your lights. Check the voltage close to the bulbs and compare with that at the battery so as to establish possible voltage drop in the wiring and switch gear. This a likely fault if you do have a fault.

An accurate instrument is not essential as you are interested only in a comparison and a drop in voltage and not absolute figures. Stick a thin needle or pin through the insulated wire close to the lamp to take a reading. Measure comparing several earth points including direct to the battery as the return circuit could very well be faulty.

Best of luck and good wishes, Trevor *<)

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by lee
you're welcome and for what it's worth, I agree with you on the lights. I doubt the wire change will do much if the system is clean, etc. I have done the mod, but that was because I was introducing a couple of audio amplifiers (at full tilt a 60 amp draw is possible for brief periods) and wished to make sure the system could handle the draw.

Perhaps I owe you an apology - I said earlier I didn't know what system the UK was using - if I could just learn to look a little closer at the location......Sorry:o (just another dumb American)

Dumb American? I don't think so!:eek:

Thanks Lee, and thanks Trevor.

No need to apologise Lee, what you said was correct, as backed up by Trevor's test figures.

Like Phil, my charging and starting circuits work like a dream, so I don't need or feel the need to tweak them.

Against that, the light output is only good enough for a 70-80 mph car, not nearly good enough for a 140 mph motor [not that I would be driving that fast on public highways :D ]

The real solution as I said before would be to change to glass headlights and uprate the bulbs. I would be very slow to go off-standard with bulbs while using the plastic lenses. When the lights are on, there is serious heat radiating through them, just feel the lenses. I have cleaned the outside of the lenses a fair few times with aggressive and fine polishes. It works, and it helps. However, I have not done the dismantling to clean the inner surface, primarily because the outer one degrades so soon. It would be a waste of effort. Glass is the way to go.

Thanks again for the advice.

Joe:) :D